check

[HmtPD2]

This guy said that he was a SEAL before he became a police officer (he's not an officer anymore either.) His name is Brent Cain, he is about 45 yrs old now. If he was a SEAL, it would have been in the late 70's, POSSIBLY very early 80's.

[Fred]

nope

[RogueExec]

I don't know why anyone would pose as an ex-SEAL to become a cop. In my AO, heavy special ops experience is a detriment more than a benefit to getting into LE. Condolensces to Mr. Cain who's about to be indecently exposed.

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"Don't think of it as theft. Think of it as creative augmentation of your operational capabilities."

[future_sailor]

RogueExec,

Why would it be a detriment for an ex-SEAL volunteering for law enforcement?

[DFC5343]

Most, not all, x-SEAL's are LE. City, state and federal.

[Jeff Rambo]

Future_Sailor,

Lots of LE Employers see officers prior military (esp specops/specwar) experience as being a possible reason for "over doing it" (can't think of the exact term for it at the moment, I'm brain dead after lack of sleep). But I'm sure you can understand the basic wording, someone will eventually clarify.

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Sincerely,
Jeff A. Rambo
NBTNDT
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Disrespect cannot be commanded, it must be earned.

[DFC5343]

JR I think you would be surprised.

[Jeff Rambo]

Let me just add that I wasn't implying there is not that many (or a shortage/lack of)former Operators in the LE field, but I was answering the question from Future_Sailor WRT what RogueExec was implying.

Sorry for the confusion ... damn, I've been doing that a lot lately. http://www.ultimatebb.com/UBBGraphics/19981203-ohouse/smile8.gif

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Sincerely,
Jeff A. Rambo
NBTNDT
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Disrespect cannot be commanded, it must be earned.

[RogueExec]

Jeff, is the term "excessive use of force" what you were seeking for? That's primarily the reason for some (read "SOME") departments to shy away from ex-operators. There was no personal view expressed about whether I was in agreement or disagreement with that approach....just that it happens.

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"

[bmf]

In my past experiences, those BDTD guys wishing to go in to the LE career field usually don't apply for local "patrol" positions. Most "ex____" guys I know work for federal agencies. They don't tend to have as much interaction with the general public as a patrol officer. (It's diificult for a guy who's used to doing some high speed low drag ops to volunteer for patrol duty and patrol pay.) I think most federal agencies are glad to receive someone this motivated and highly trained. The hardest thing I've seen is getting operators through the screening process with questions like " Have you ever slept with a hooker?" "Have you ever taken anything from work?"...
Some guys have some problems with this stemming from their Rock and Roll lifestyle when they were young sailors. (not me of course) http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif
Nothing against the local PD career, just my two cents. Well maybe 2 pesos.

[This message has been edited by bmf (edited 12-12-2000).]

[RogueExec]

That's right on. Typically, the Feds are more than stoked to get an ex-operator, whereas the local PD's aren't prepared for someone that motivated and trained. I don't know what they think......maybe they're afraid he'll get pissed and blow up the local doughnut house or something. I don't know.

BAD COP --- NO DONUT

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"

[RUDEDAWG]

I don't think the police departments are shying away from ex-operators. It's probably the other way around. Everyday police work doesn't offer the versatility and the same types of challenges that federal work does.

>>>Just to re-emphasize: police work doesn't offer the SAME types of challenges as federal law enforcement but is still challenging none the less. Federal work pays alot more also. The starting salary for most police agencies is about the same for someone whose been on active duty for about 6 years.

[Mike]

Sometimes it is the other way around. More and ore federal agents are joining big police departments like LA and NYC. Operators will do well in big cities since they have the language skills.

[Medic_21]

<<I don't know why anyone would pose as an ex-SEAL to become a cop>>

I think that military experience in being looked at in a different manner these days because of the higher standards of hiring. A past in the military shows discipline, honor and respect in an individual not to mention the expensive training they might recieve.

I remember when I attended a training session taught by a medic from the US military, I forget what branch.

When I was hired as a paramedic I was required to have an EMCA(Emergency Medical Care Assistant) certificate so ex-military would have to obtain the same through a college course. We had no ex-military guys applying but I know the fire and police depts had a few and most of them were hired.

My point was, to a civilian service the military looks really good on an application. I would certainly like an opportunity to work with a combat medic or a SEAL or something like that. Though I can't imagine a former SEAL placing tickets on parked cars.

Just my opinion, nothing more.

[RogueExec]

I'm with ya, Medic, but I was stating why anyone would POSE as an ex-operator to become a cop.....meaning that sooner or later, someone would check into it and find out and they'd be sacked. All of the reasons stated above are right on. But I still don't see any reason to POSE as an ex-operator for ANY reason...particularly to go into LE.

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"

[RogueExec]

"The starting salary for most police agencies is about the same for someone whose been on active duty for about 6 years." -Rudedawg

Average starting pay in the State of WA is around $3500.00 per month. Is a 6-year active enlisted/officer making that kinda bread these days???

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"

[This message has been edited by RogueExec (edited 12-13-2000).]

[Jeff Rambo]

According to a few people I've come in contact with have said that starting salaries start at 45k-50k here in the SoCal market.

Always wondered how all those LEO's w/ the LAPD purchased houses on the outskirts of LA with the Mid-High 6 figure price tags <Grin>

Now that I think about it, josepy said something similiar to me on USMCNET WRT salary.

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Sincerely,
Jeff A. Rambo
NBTNDT
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Disrespect cannot be commanded, it must be earned.

[HmtPD2]

An ex SEAL placing parking tickets on parked cars......?
I am not a SEAL, but I originated the post, and I am a police officer and former Marine Infantryman.
I think people must have a distorted view of Police Depts. I think I've written one parking ticket in my entire life.
Someone also said above that PD's were intimidated and un-prepared to handle an x-operator. You couldnt be more wrong.
In a city PD, or Sheriff, they are the front line of Law enforcement. We arrive when emotions are high, when people are at their worst, and when they still think they can get away.
I have written several SWAT search warrants, been in a shooting, a few car chases countless foot chases and a couple of pretty good fights. I work with some of the most professional people I have ever met..military included. Now if you want to go to Columbia and kill drug runners, then the PD might not be for you.
We have SWAT, Drug teams, Gang teams, motorcycles, aircraft, etc.
I have worked with several former SF people who believe LE is extremely challenging. I have also met a few that couldnt be police and felt the Dept should cater to their needs because of their past history. Just because you are former SF doesnt make you a good cop. I know people that have never been in the military that are better cops than I will ever be.
I believe some people have this Hollywood image of saying, "Good morning ma'am, I am Special Agent Smith."
It all depends on the job you want. PD is not being an FBI agent, or visa versa.
RudeDawg also mentioned that the starting salary for a PD is the same as someone who has been on active duty for six years. You guys in Va. must get payed pretty bad. 50k per year is hardly E-5 pay.

Now, this post was not to slam any agency, I believe I have made a good discussion for both....but come on, to say that a PD is not "prepared" for someone that highly or trained or motivated.....I would suggest that any SF guy do a ride along for a few shifts. You may be surprised as to who may be a little ill-prepared. There are MANY PD's that would give any SF guy a daily challenge. It depends on the Cop, not the Dept. or its level in the state or nation.
Now, to end this, I did not intend to slam anyone, just trying to dispell a myth.

R. Steht
Sgt./ USMC (former)
0331/ 8152/ 8154
Police Officer

PS...We dont eat donuts anymore either.

[Swat1]

Good Post.

[RUDEDAWG]

You're right; starting salaries in VA. are pretty meager but so is the cost of living. I've worked for two different police departments (both in the Mid-Atlantic) and the highest base salary I received from either was $33K. Believe me, "cops" are not rolling in dough.

HmtPD- you're right, donuts are out of style. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

[josepy]

Thanks HmtPD

I was about to get sick for a minute.

Gents, any major LE agency does not care if you were former specops. Especially if you think you are cool because of it. If you carry forward the good traits then it can help. It will never get you straight to SWAT or Metro or whatever.

I am pretty sure that any Federal agency you have to have a degree to apply. So if SF Johnny gets out and does his 5 years and then joins then fine but...

BTW SoCal cops make way more than the Feds.

[Mike]

Medic_21, did the VA worked with private certification groups to make sure that all military jobs can be certified in the military rather than have a military person go out of the service and re-start all over to get the cerficiate (EMT, etc)? IIRC, it started under Clinton/Loser (ouch) when many vets complained they don't have the certificationr eady on hand when they applied for jobs.

[Medic_21]

Mike, I'm not totally sure if I understand your question completely. Are you asking if military certification can be transferred to civilian jobs? To answer in short, I don't know. I'm living in Ontario, Canada right now and they have specific rules for the emergency services such as police, EMS & fire. To be a firefighter or police officer here you don't need other experience but it helps big time.

As for a medic it is way different. There are no EMT's in Ontario only first responders and paramedics. I'll try and sum it all up for you as best I can,

first responders: firefighters and some police. Anywhere from 40-300 hrs training

level 1 paramedic: 1,400 hrs training, Emergency Medical Care Assistant(EMCA) certification.

level 2 paramedic: 2,400 hrs training, EMCA, 2 yrs experience

level 3 paramedic: 3,500 hrs training, EMCA, 3 yrs experience

check out this link for a better description, http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/ems/operations/paramedics.htm

For people from outside the juristiction of the province have to meet the following standards, http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/ems/contact_ems/equivalency.htm

If a person has training and experience it counts, as long as they can prove it. The military probably makes it difficult for its special people to leave and be police officers, paramedics, security specialists etc because they train them to a high level and pay them low. Whera as outside agencies will pay much more for their skills.

As for my preference I'd rather a military trained medic be beside me in the ambulance as opposed to somebody who has gone through a college program.

Did I answer your question or just go way off topic?

[DFC5343]

I personally know quite a few Team guys as local Socal PD. All SWAT or managment and love what there doing. Misnomer that PD doesn't want SF. In fact they seem mystified and curious at the same time (NON-SF officers).

[RogueExec]

Sorry, dudes. I was posting a general statement when, in fact, I was referring to my knowledge and experience with departments in the Washington State/Oregon AO. My bad.

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"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"

[bmf]

I definately agree that most PD WOULD want an SF/SPECOPS type of person. Although in my experience (EOD) most fellas are DRAWN to the federal side for various reasons (military time counting toward retirement etc..) Lastly,I have the utmost respect for my local PD and troopers.

bmf
(CJ major)