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24/7
10 July 2012, 16:00
I'm looking at a 2005 F250 Lariat / King Ranch. Real good shape and the guys asking a fair price. I've read that this engine may have issues, I've read pro and con on both sides.

Any opinions from those here?

Gsniper
10 July 2012, 16:02
I don't own one, but have a bud that does and his is over 170k with no issues.

mdwest
10 July 2012, 16:35
we ran a bunch of F250, F350, and Excursions with 6.0 turbo diesels in them over in Iraq.. (had over 50 of them at one time between our convoy teams, PSD teams, and general purpose trucks)..

our mechanics seemed to prefer them over any other engine option... for working in that particular environment..

GCPD167
10 July 2012, 16:49
I'm not a Ford guy, but I drove our department's F-250 with the 6.0 to Louisianna for the Katrina aftermath. I had a loaded 24' trailer hitched to it and it pulled like it wasn't there. I've always preferred Chevy products, but that Super Duty made a believer out of me. It's still in the fleet approaching 200,000.

SOTB
10 July 2012, 16:58
When we designed the vehicle in my armored veh thread, we specifically waite for mass production until Ford went to the new motor.

Our mechanics thought the other one sucked....

SpudWrench
10 July 2012, 17:09
I'm sorry, but that 6.0 is a terrible motor.
I'm a Ford guy too. We had one while I was doing pipeline work in Alaska, it had to be warmed up for 5-10 minutes whenever the temperature was below 40 (which was 10 months of the year). It was gutless, smokey, noisy, just a disappointment all around.

Generally, our contractors and employees ran Duramax's. A few Cummins Dodges (pre-2007 only) made it up there. The D-max is outstanding, regardless of the generation.
The Silverado rides much nicer as well.

When it came time for me to buy a new truck several years ago, I went to the Ford dealer and bought a used Duramax.

Ford just can't seem to settle on a good motor design. The Chevy has been a 6.7 since '99, with minor generational changes. In that same period, Ford has had a 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and now a 6.7. None of these motors are related to each other.

Frankly, I wouldn't take a 6.0 as a gift.

steve
10 July 2012, 17:13
As long as the vehicle has been maintained it should be fine. The 6.0 does not like to spend hours on end idling. In fact it loves to be driven hard. My wife's '05 Excursion has given us no engine issues. Keep the oil clean, fuel filters changed, and coolant fresh and you should be GTG.

How many miles are on it? Can you have the warranty history checked through a Ford dealer?

GCPD167
10 July 2012, 18:16
I'm sorry, but that 6.0 is a terrible motor.
I'm a Ford guy too. We had one while I was doing pipeline work in Alaska, it had to be warmed up for 5-10 minutes whenever the temperature was below 40 (which was 10 months of the year). It was gutless, smokey, noisy, just a disappointment all around.

Generally, our contractors and employees ran Duramax's. A few Cummins Dodges (pre-2007 only) made it up there. The D-max is outstanding, regardless of the generation.
The Silverado rides much nicer as well.

When it came time for me to buy a new truck several years ago, I went to the Ford dealer and bought a used Duramax.

Ford just can't seem to settle on a good motor design. The Chevy has been a 6.7 since '99, with minor generational changes. In that same period, Ford has had a 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and now a 6.7. None of these motors are related to each other.

Frankly, I wouldn't take a 6.0 as a gift.


Ha! Maybe that's why it works so well for us. Mild temps and flat roads :biggrin:

SpudWrench
10 July 2012, 18:36
Ha! Maybe that's why it works so well for us. Mild temps and flat roads :biggrin:

You both are probably on to something.
For me, it was a no-frills work truck. In Fairbanks, temps often hit -45 or worse - if there was no place to plug in, you just let it idle, often for a whole day.
Lots of hills, gravel, etc.
It really was bad, but I test drove several when it came time to buy, because I really wanted the truck to work out.

The final nail in the coffin was the outrageous turning circle.
My driveway had 2 switchbacks in it, even an extended cab Ford couldn't make it up in one run. The crew cab long bed dually Chevy motored right up with no problems.

My current company uses a half-dozen Ford 3/4 and 1T trucks. All gas V10s, and they are some serious gas hogs. Very little torque and harsh riding.

Chemical Cookie
10 July 2012, 21:07
The 6.0 was thought of to be a horrible motor (by original design I guess one could say it was). The general problem was in the anti-freeze used by Ford, which eventually caused a cascade of problems. From what I remember the anti-freeze was silicon based which would eventually eat away at the cylinder head gasket; weak head-studs being a big problem causing anti-freeze to seep into the combustion chamber. If it wasn't caught when it "started" to show signs then you were in for some serious cylinder head damage or a complete dead engine. I'm no mechanic and don't' claim to be one but am going off of what the local diesel shop pass to me. I am starting my search for this same engine, truck and year model.

You can put around $5k into the engine and make it (their verbiage not mine) bullet proof. EGR delete, heavy duty head gasket, the proper anti-freeze fluid, head bolt studs, and a few other items make the engine a solid performer and one that can handle heavy horsepower. A guy I trained with has '06 F350 with 500 bhp and around 900 torque all but doing those modifications and a turbo timer. When fixed they really hold together well and for quite a while.

When I buy, I'm going to make sure the truck I get has those "fixes." Not saying you should too but it is added insurance against future engine problems. Good luck!

dantana
10 July 2012, 21:46
Check out powerstroke.org. to read all about the 6.0 by guys that drive them, rebuild/troubleshoot them. Do a little research and then you'll know what to check out on a potential buy. I own and drive a 2001 7.3 and a 2003 Excursion 6.0.:cool:

SpudWrench
10 July 2012, 21:50
As I tried to slip in, there's more to a truck than the motor.
The ride, handling (never great, it's a truck), maneuverability, noise all come in to play.
When Chevy discontinued the diesel Suburbans we bought several nice 2007 Excursions with the 6.0. They were a world different than the pickups, mainly because of the focus on ride and noise isolation.

If you're really going to work it hard and often, the Ford is a good choice with the right precautions. Tough, not plush.
If it's a DD that will occasionally see truck duty, you might want to consider another brand.

24/7
10 July 2012, 22:20
If you're really going to work it hard and often, the Ford is a good choice with the right precautions. Tough, not plush. If it's a DD that will occasionally see truck duty, you might want to consider another brand.

That about sums it up, this thing is a "want" not a "need". I was talking to my wife about it at dinner (Not gonna get it), because I'd buy it and then try not to drive it... Sucks when you have new toy fever, hard to fight the urge. I just got rid of my 1990 F150, straight 6, bullet proof engine. I've got the fever for another PU. I need to fight the urge a bit longer. I've always liked the 250's, that is what I'll look at first when the time comes.

I appreciate everyone's insight.

The Fat Guy
10 July 2012, 22:51
I have this exact same truck. We have 120k miles pulling a trailer. About 6 months ao we had some significant Engine work done on it. ($5k). Have them put it on the high speed engine analyzer before you buy it,. It finds things that may be wrong that you cannot currently sense.

wowzers
10 July 2012, 22:58
Everyone I know who has had a 6.0 said it was a big turd.

EchoFiveMike
11 July 2012, 05:52
6.0 Ford= Navistar(International) VT365. Is widely reported as a problem child, I don't see many anymore. 7.3 was a great motor, but the usual bureaucratic meddling (EPA crap) ruined it.

In the small truck market, the benchmark is the Cummin 5.9 and now 6.7L. A Cummins with an Allison transmission (if you're into slush boxes) would be the ideal setup. Unfortunately that's not available from an OEM. S/F....Ken M

OS3
11 July 2012, 07:36
Ah, something I am somewhat qualified in, lol.
The 6.0L was doomed from the start. It was the beginning of the end regarding the relationship between Navistar and Ford. The details are boring, but it started with the injectors and a rear camshaft seal. The bottom line with 6.0 PowerStrokes is if you have a good one, it'll be good. The bad ones seem to have acted up before 60k miles and continued their problems.
I put just over 200k on a new '08 6.4L with some modifications early and loved that truck. That was the work truck, Dodge Cummins have been the POV of choice.
-OS3 the diesel dude.

Thirtyaughtsix
11 July 2012, 10:00
Everyone I know who has had a 6.0 said it was a big turd.

This. I wouldnt touch a 6.No with a ten-foot cattle prod.




For Ford, I suggest a late-run 7.3. They quit making them about half-way through the 2003 model year (ie, 2003 is a mix of 7.3s and 6.Nos). I have a 2002 7.3 myself.

GatorJr.
12 July 2012, 01:34
My Brother used to own and work at his own auto/performance shop, and he has over 40 years of mechanical experience, with over 30 of that being career-wise as a professional (Most of it as an ASE Master Mechanic); and he currently employs a 2000 f 250 xlt exd cab 5.4 gas motor as both his daily driver and general work truck (He loads the Harley into it sometimes, can utilize it to tow his boat, or uses it to extensively plow snow in the wintertime up in NY. At the same time it's also great for just cruising around with his dog in it, and going to work). It's a great truck as well, and you might consider something close to that.


As for the model you were asking about, this is what he had to say:

Overall good truck. 6.0 diesel issues were head gaskets, egr and injector problems. Lots of power, great towing, if you find a well maintained one go for it. King Ranch is the fully extra loaded model, so they probably used it as a personal truck not a used and abused work truck. Hope this helps.

I know you've apparently reached a decision already, but I just figured I'd toss this out there anyways (I contacted him before you posted a second time, but didn't get it up here fast enough). Best of luck with whatever you decide to go after in the near future!

The Fat Guy
12 July 2012, 05:32
Ah, something I am somewhat qualified in, lol.
The 6.0L was doomed from the start. It was the beginning of the end regarding the relationship between Navistar and Ford. The details are boring, but it started with the injectors and a rear camshaft seal. The bottom line with 6.0 PowerStrokes is if you have a good one, it'll be good. The bad ones seem to have acted up before 60k miles and continued their problems.
I put just over 200k on a new '08 6.4L with some modifications early and loved that truck. That was the work truck, Dodge Cummins have been the POV of choice.
-OS3 the diesel dude.

I take very good care of mine, but these are the exact problems I had as mentioned above. FWIW, I do have 120k miles on it before I had any issue besides a transmission service or oil change.

firstshirt
12 July 2012, 07:14
Had an 03 F250 w/ the 6.0 (1st year of production) and experienced none of the "typical" problems in over 130k miles. But then, I did have to replace the turbo w/less than 100k miles on the clock. Overall, though, it was a decent motor. I was going to upgrade to a 2011/12 with the new Ford designed and built diesel, but got a deal I couldn't refuse on a Cummins-powered Dodge 3500 Laramie.

GPC
12 July 2012, 09:57
05-07 have a problem with brake calipers locking up.
I have had 6 on my 06 5.4 replaced other than that happy with it.
I have 2 other friends with the same problems both were happy with the 6.0 engine.
They all seem to rust in the same spot.

OS3
12 July 2012, 10:28
I take very good care of mine, but these are the exact problems I had as mentioned above. FWIW, I do have 120k miles on it before I had any issue besides a transmission service or oil change.

Then you did very well to stay on top of your oil changes. But for most (read fleet types) the injectors would leak fuel into crank case, but since diesel has (used to have until ULSD) lubrication qualities, the engine would last a while until the rear seal would dry out and start leaking. Then there was an issue on replacing the rear seal IIRC, it had to be done a certain way or it would break the seal, therefore giving the customer a leaking rear seal after having their cab lifted off the frame to work on the engine.:eek:

MP18D
12 July 2012, 16:51
24/7

the 05 model year is, from what I have seen, the breakover point for the 6litre engine.
Anything before that is a headache. After that is a crapshoot and I figure we do enough of that with the beef market!:rolleyes::biggrin:

Now my partner has an F-350 with the V-10 gas. Fuel is cheaper, mileage is withing 1-4mpg of a 6.0 or even the 6.4 and it has plenty of tow power. I have pulled lots of loaded goosenecks with it...And they can be had for a song!!!!

I however am going to drive my 03 7.3 till the wheels fall off!! Or the Boy is...
Good luck!
Mike

DuckMarshal
13 July 2012, 12:52
I have two friends who had 6.0 liter motors go down on them. Just prior to one going down my buddy took it in and got a trade in quote of about $17K. He thought it was too low and walked out. A week later his motor blew and it ended up costing him $11K.

24/7
13 July 2012, 13:04
I wish the guy would hurry up and sell it, it's sitting just down the road from where I live...my carcass would look good in it.

I really hate being practical cause I've got the fever to get a toy bad. :cool:

MP18D
13 July 2012, 14:13
Truthfully..I admire your restraint....Those King Ranch trucks are pretty nice!!!

24/7
13 July 2012, 14:50
Truthfully..I admire your restraint....Those King Ranch trucks are pretty nice!!!

Dude!

My mistake was driving it, doesn't help that it's a very good price. It's just sitting there looking at me...every freaking day. :rolleyes: The only real problem is the drivers seat is really well worn. The dude worked out of his truck, he's a builder, so it's got the well worn saddle look. Bodies real clean, he's replaced the alt and oil cooler, 8ft bed, good rubber, factory installed sat radio, orgin radio still in the box.

It'll happen but just not now.

Plan the dive, and dive the plan.

That's a mighty little driver in that photo. :eek::biggrin:

24/7
17 July 2012, 20:25
:eek: I'm a puss with truck fever....I just bought it. :biggrin:

SOTB
17 July 2012, 23:22
I'm a puss with truck fever....I just bought it....You remember all those threads here about advice and not marrying -- and then the guy saying fuck it and marrying anyway? Umm, yeah....:biggrin:

24/7
18 July 2012, 06:48
Men do weird stuff for lov'in ;) and toys...:biggrin:

Point taken.

FlyOnTheWall
18 July 2012, 13:25
Let us know how YOUR 6.0 holds up... :biggrin:

bmbsqd
18 July 2012, 13:29
Without reading the other posts let me say DO NOT BUY THIS TRUCK. You have a 70% chance it is a POS. The 6.0 is simply a bad engine. My advice is go back to 2003 and older to get the 7.3L or get a newer one with the new engine.

Proud owner of a 2003 F-250 Lariat Crew Cab w/7.3L Turbo Diesel! Wa just offered $14K for it!!!!

Question...I was told that FMC went to great lengths to make sure the 7.3L could not be installed in newer Ford trucks. Does anyone know of a sit where a 7.3L was put in a newer model (post 2003)? Did it work?

MP18D
18 July 2012, 14:02
Haahaahaa!! Can not blame ya....they are nice. Do not chip it and service it regularly.
Really hope it works out for you guys!

Oh yeah, the little driver?? Just got himself a new Wade from Teskeys. Was actually griping about the "buddy stirrups" on my saddle.......:eek::biggrin::biggrin:

bmbsqd
18 July 2012, 14:07
Haahaahaa!! Can not blame ya....they are nice. Do not chip it and service it regularly.
Really hope it works out for you guys!

Oh yeah, the little driver?? Just got himself a new Wade from Teskeys. Was actually griping about the "buddy stirrups" on my saddle.......:eek::biggrin::biggrin:

MP18D....I have heard that about the chip several times. My 2003 was already chipped. The person who had it before me was a Ford diesel mechanic, so I just presumed he knew what he was doing. Do you recommend having it unchipped? I have it in Stock mode anyway.

Fire-Gunner
18 July 2012, 16:33
My 2004 6.0L F-350 runs great. I guess I got one of the good ones.

bmbsqd
18 July 2012, 16:54
My 2004 6.0L F-350 runs great. I guess I got one of the good ones.

That's great to hear. In fact there were MANY great changes to the 2004 that made me really want one...but the crapshoot on the engine knocked be down one more year to a 2003.

Also...in case you did not know it (because MANY do not)...you have an engine block heater on that truck! It is incredible to me how many people do not know it. I did not until last year! Every Ford Super Duty diesel has one, and it is even more incredible how few Ford dealerships know it!

MP18D
19 July 2012, 02:13
bmbsqd-
The chip advice pertains to the 6.0. My 7.3 (also an 03, in the above pic) does have a 5 position chip for towing from DP tuners. Everything I have researched told me that was the way to go for a "work" truck, and so far with 250K it has not been a problem.
But then I also change the oil every 5k, fuel filter 10k, trans/diff fluids 50k etc. Always dirty but sure runs good!

24/7
19 July 2012, 18:42
The maint records came with the truck, it's had two repair trips to the dealer. One for the alternator and the other for a overheating issue, both of those were in 08 and 09. The guy kept a butt load of oil change receipts so I know that he had the vehicle serviced regularly. Dude was a GC and the truck was his baby, I've spent the last couple of days going over it and detailing it, it's in great shape. It's got 157,000 miles on it, I figure that if the engine was going to implode it would have done it already.

MP, talk to me about the chip stuff. The truck is currently in performance mode, has been for a while according to the seller. He tossed the "SCT powerflash" do-dad, I hooked it up today to see if the truck was showing any diagnostic trouble codes, it wasn't.

hxxp://www.sctflash.com/PDF/X3_SF3Manual.pdf

Are you saying that if it is set on something other than the factory settings it is detrimental to the engine or making adjustments could make the truck run like crap?

bmbsqd
19 July 2012, 19:50
bmbsqd-
The chip advice pertains to the 6.0. My 7.3 (also an 03, in the above pic) does have a 5 position chip for towing from DP tuners. Everything I have researched told me that was the way to go for a "work" truck, and so far with 250K it has not been a problem.
But then I also change the oil every 5k, fuel filter 10k, trans/diff fluids 50k etc. Always dirty but sure runs good!

Good PMCS. Do you do the diff?

One major issue I've had is the speedometer cluster. It controls a ton of electronic options unrelated to the speedometer, like windows and radio.

fireranger
19 July 2012, 23:05
CC & GatorJr sum it up pretty good. I'm a fireman for a large metro Atlanta dept. We had 3 F450 ambulances with the 6.0. None of them made it a year before we got rid of them! We still have a F550 "squad" truck, I can't remember how many heads, head gaskets & turbos it's had. Hot or cold weather it runs like a turd for the first 3-4 miles! Truck only has 80K on it!! I had a F250 that had all the same problems. I used to own a 4X4 shop ( most fireman have parttime gigs ) where we did performance mods, lifts........ Hated it when it came out. On the other hand I have a FEW friends who have had NO problems and love the motor. If it's a good one, it's good. If it's not....... you're screwed! I'm a Ford guy, love the look, ride, & other than that motor it'll last longer than any other! The King Ranch is a "Super" haha nice truck. If you trust the guy your buying it from & he says it's a good one with good records... well, go for it. if there's any doubt to his credibility or the trucks records, steer clear! Good luck!

24/7
20 July 2012, 07:28
Trust...Me don't trust nobody, ;) specially if money is involved but I don't feel uncomfortable with the situation.

Everything associated with the truck is local, the seller lives 3 blocks down the road, the dealer and service joints are all here in town. I do believe the guys story about needing to get rid of it because his business is hurting not because he wanted too. I've been in his house and the dude's got a sweet lake house and looks like he's got some bills to pay. So what all that means I'm OK with the level of risk associated with the deal, I've done my due diligence and don't have any real issues.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

SOTB
20 July 2012, 09:17
....Keeping my fingers crossed.We all want you this to turn out fantastic for you. None of us are hoping this is one of those situations -- analogy to my post above -- where you come home and find she's been allowing trains to be pulled on her and letting everyone drink your beer and play on your Xbox. Sadly, some of us are simply unimpressed with the other members of her family, high school, and the town she came from....

MP18D
29 July 2012, 01:19
24/7
Recommend getting ahold of the SCT folks-they can tell you everything about their chip off the serial #. High HP settings are one big constant with the 6.0s and head gasket and EGR problems..A little goes a long ways with those motors!

bmb-I do both diffs at 50K. Not really hard, use royal purple syn fluid.

Really good resources are powerstroke dot org and superdutydiesel dot com