Captains

[RKW]

Do most Special Forces captains come into SFAS with formal time as a captain or right out of IOAC? Would it better prepare me to have some company level command? Dumb question?

RKW

[pn]

RKW, you're looking 10 years down the line. Take it from me, your main concern right now should be graduating college with a kickass resume, working out and chasing girls(not necessarily in that order).

-pn

[RKW]

OK, thats good advice, but what I was originally wondering was whether or not captains come in with company level expierience often. It was more of just a search for trivial knowledge, but thanks anyway.

PS: What kind of kick ass resume do you mean?

RKW

[This message has been edited by RKW (edited 01-07-2000).]

[Razor]

RKW, look in Rangernet under the thread on which we speaking before, there's a good link waiting for you.

As for your current question, no, standard route for Os is to go to SFAS enroute to the ICCC, complete it, then go straight to the Q-course. You have a slim to none chance of getting command time as a 1LT, again luck and timing are kings over that.

[RKW]

Razor, did you mean command time as a 1LT in a unit before special forces, or command of a special forces A-Team as a LT? Just Wondering.

RKW

[Razor]

Command time in the Army refers to no lower than company command, RKW. There are no such things as platoon commanders in the Army, only platoon leaders.

With that said, there are occassions where a 1LT will have some real company command time before going to the ICCC, but its VERY rare and certainly nothing you can influence in any way to try to get it. As far as DA and PERSCOM are concerned, time as an SF Det Cdr counts as "command", and is in their eyes equivalent to have an infantry, etc company command.


[This message has been edited by Razor (edited 01-09-2000).]

[RKW]

Razor, I'm not sure this is where I was hoping to get with this question. I was asking if a captain in the special forces would have had time as a captain commanding a company in the infantry. I only asked because it was always brought up that the earliest an officer could apply was as a 1LT(P). Thats all I wondered.

Also, at http://books.usapa.belvoir.army.mil/cgi-bin/bookmgr/BOOKS/P600_3/15.4.b it mentions assignments that officers should seek in order, it all makes sense except for the 2nd one:
(2) Battalion staff (as an S1, S4 or assistant S3) or company command in a captain company command billet.
Does that refer to regular company command in the infantry or spot on a B-Team? I ask because why would the captain leave and return for one tour?

Thanks for all the help with this matter,
RKW

[This message has been edited by RKW (edited 01-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by RKW (edited 01-09-2000).]

[Razor]

Ok, I think what we need to do is break this down a bit. Since one must be a 1LT(P) to even apply to SF, anything done (minus SFAS) as a 1LT I've mentioned is while the LT is still in his basic branch (infantry, armor, etc). As I said before, very very very very rarely will a 1LT have command of a company in his basic branch (again, infantry, armor, etc). Its not impossible; I have a classmate who had a couple months of command time as a 1LT while deployed to Bosnia with an infantry company in the 1st Armored Division. So, he came to IOAC with one command OER under his belt, then went to SF, so he had an infantry company command, followed by an SF team command. Again, very very very very very rare nowadays.

Before SF was a branch, it was common (in fact almost required) for an officer to have a command in his basic branch in addition to SF command. This was because SF was a non-standard tour (akin to FA tours now), and as such, an officer had to continue to track in his basic branch (i.e. get branch qualified at each level) to continue up the promotion ladder. One of the 10th Group Bn Cdrs is part of that crowd--had command time in the 82d as well as SF team/company/bn commands. That's also why you will sometimes see officers of other branches (mainly infantry though) wearing SF tabs. That's not including those who were SF enlisted then got commissioned, of course. Confused yet?

The company command in a captain command billet refers to the support companies in each bn, and HHC command at Group. Those are usually second commands.

I have to ask, RKW; what's your curiosity about long term career paths in SF?

[RKW]

Razor, I'm not sure where my curiosity about the Special Forces careers comes from. I think that I heard from someone that a potential Special Forces officer had to have had command time in a company. I also remember someone telling me that a 1LT(P) could be apply for SF. I guess this is where I got confused. Then, the first post was poorly written off the top of my head. Since I had always learned that Captains had company level expierience, what I was wondering is if Captains still can apply after commanding a infantry company. This is what I always assumed. If I received bad information or whatever the case, please clarify me.

The second part about the 2nd command was not a plan for my career by any means. I was wondering what it meant by company command. As to the mistake on my part about LTs, I had a miscue with the lingo.

Thanks for everything,
RKW


[This message has been edited by RKW (edited 01-10-2000).]

[pn]

RKW,

You probably already know what I mean by kickass resume. You've seen the guys at school that make everyone think "goddamn that guy is one squared-away MF". Got straight As. On the varsity basketball team. President of the Debate Club. 1600 on the SATs. Colleges lined up from here to Boston bangin down his door to give him money. Spending lots of quality time with the prom queen.

Just do like the commercial says and Be All You Can Be(now I wouldn't go do the other thing the commercial says and join the Army, but to each his own).

Basically all the advice that you were given by some old Marines in that other thread.

-pn

[Razor]

Technically speaking, one COULD have a company command in a conventional branch first, then come over to SF, but that's becoming more and more improbable every day. SOPO (Special Operations Proponency Office) at SWC wants to get officers who will spend max time in SF, so they're primarily concerned with getting the 1LTs. Timeline speaking, it'd be damned tough for a guy to get a conventional command, then hit the Q (assuming he did SFAS between first LT tour and IOAC), then hit all the follow-on schools, then get team time and still make it in time for FA assignments and such. Not impossible, but very very tight. And unless he had an outstanding Det Cdr OER, he may miss the first look at MAJ, which then puts him behind his peers on the timeline. I'm really getting into the weeds on this, and you really have to be part of the system to fully understand it all, so let's stick to generalizations and say no, CPTs nowadays will not have a conventional company command prior to going SF.

[RKW]

Razor and pn, thanks for all the help. This has cleared up a lot for me.

RKW