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FNG
7 February 2002, 08:56
That's 300 rounds for combat... wonder if they got extra mags or stripper clips. Sounds highspeed, mostly operational kit, not much snivel gear except for the snack items and stove.




A Canadian kit bag in Kandahar

Mitch Potter
STAFF REPORTER

We asked a soldier from Canada's incoming forces to empty his pockets and his rucksack, personal kit, ammo belt, weaponry and whatever else he might be packing and lay the whole lot out for the world to see.

Our premise: we might get a better idea of what the Canadians are going to do here if we know what they brought with them in their kit bags.

Obliging the request was Cpl. Peter Mitchell, 27, a Trenton, Ont., native with anti-armour platoon, combat support company, 3PPCLI Battle Group. That's army jargon for the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, 3rd Battalion, which together with a Coyote-riding Lord Strathcona's Horse reconnaissance squadron, is bringing the Maple Leaf to Afghanistan.

Here's what Mitchell showed us:

One well-thumbed U.S. Army-issue Afghanistan Country Handbook, the omnibus for-army-eyes-only primer to the war-torn country. One ROE (Rules of Engagement) Card in a breast pocket of his battle greens. Every reporter in Kandahar would love to take a close look at the latter. None has so far. A high-quality directional compass came from the same pocket. This one's not army issue; Mitchell bought it himself.

Lots of firepower. Mitchell carries the C8 assault rifle, a shorter, lighter, more portable unit than the standard-issue C7 (which comes with built-in grenade launcher). Both take night-vision scopes, tip-mounted 23-centimetre bayonets and the same 30-round banana-shaped magazine.

Also in this company's arsenal, two C6 belt-fed 7.62 mm machineguns (100 rounds per belt), and a lighter C9. Both work on tripods, the larger of the two offering a firing range of 1,800 metres.

At the discretion of the platoon commander, some members have 9mm Browning pistols with a 13-round magazine. Mitchell is not among them.

The big gun in this platoon, however, is the TOE missile a 1.2-metre tube-launched, optically tracked guided missile designed to destroy armoured vehicles up to a range of 3.7 kilometres.

The ammo belt carries 300 rounds, but has pockets for lots besides, including four fragmentation grenades and pouches containing a weapon-cleaning kit, two water bottles, sunglasses, two pairs of socks (one wool, one Gore-Tex), field dressings, three tubes of "camo-paint" (green, black, brown) and heavy-duty work gloves. Also in the belt, a snake-bite kit for dealing with Kandahar's local vipers (no antidote, just tourniquet, iodine and a suction device for removing venom) and a half-dozen 12-hour glow sticks in multiple colours for marking tent pegs so you don't take a header in the dark.

High-protein food. The Canadians brought along a three-day supply of their own rations, called IMPs (Individual Meal Packets). When those run out, they'll switch to U.S.-issue self-heating MREs (Meal, Ready-to-Eat). Right now, Mitchell's working on an IMP proclaiming itself "Cheese Omelette With Salsa." But he's augmented his army food with a range of nutrigrain and power bars, a Milky Way, a bag of Riesen chocolate-covered caramels, a pound of Tim Hortons coffee and 40 single-cup filters from Canadian Tire.

Camping, Kandahar-style, requires a multi-fuel stove, a versatile tool the Canadian military doesn't provide. Mitchell and his pals shelled out $117 of their own for a tiny unit that works on naphtha, diesel, kerosene or just about anything else available. Canteen cups and insulated mugs complete the mess kit.

Mitchell's helmet is Kevlar, with shaggy scrim draped over it for added camouflage. In the Canadian forces, scrim is a matter of individual choice, which is why some soldiers look like they're wearing dreadlocks, others nothing at all. Inside the helmet are two bright field markers for guiding helicopters. Driving goggles complete the head gear and he'll need them to keep dusty Kandahar out of his eyes.

The bulletproof vest is combat style, replete with high-impact ceramic plates front and back designed to withstand assault-rifle fire. One of Mitchell's platoon members says this unit passed the test of C7 fire at 100 metres, but not exactly with flying colours. "The plate shattered, but it stopped the bullet," he said. "You'd be on the ground. But you'd live." By contrast, the Kevlar body armour used by most city cops would be useless out here. Might as well wear a slab of butter.

In Mitchell's main rucksack is rope, a camouflage blanket, military-strength insect repellent, flashlight and smart man waterless soap. In the parched Kandahar desert, where one cannot drink local water even if it's found, Canadian engineering teams say they don't expect soldiers here to get even a single shower in the next 30 days of their expected six-month assignment.

"We will build them eventually, but until then the most anyone can expect is to wash ourselves once a week in a five-gallon barrel," said Maj. Rod Keller, a native of Guelph and operational commander to the 12th Field Squadron providing engineering support to the Canadian battle group here.

Deeper still in Mitchell's sack are goatskin combat gloves, Gore-Tex wind pants, a gas mask filter (good for 12 hours), surprisingly few shirts and pants but a vast trove of socks and underwear. At least 10 pairs of each, plus thermal long johns.

All the warm gear makes sense as Mitchell pulls out his "whites" that would be white camouflage and white mukluk snow boots with thermal liners designed for alpine fighting in the kind of sub-zero mountain terrain one finds north of Kandahar.

Mitchell doesn't know any better than us whether he'll ever see such combat action. Those missions have so far been the domain of the many teams of elite fighters at Kandahar. They are from many countries Canada's Joint Task Force 2 is among them and they dress as civilians. They won't acknowledge queries from journalists.

The final items are personal. Mitchell has pens, paper and envelopes to write home, though mail arrangements have yet to be established. And in his wallet, pictures of his wife Tina and their three children, Brandon, 9, Briny, 6 and Matthew who, at just 7 months, is almost certain to take his first steps while dad is in Afghanistan.

As for the Canadian deployment here, we should all expect a slow build over the next week. Hamstrung by the need to piggyback aboard U.S. transport jets, the Battle Group won't be operational until at least 75 per cent of the troops and gear arrive at Kandahar. The tally so far: 213 soldiers of an expected 800 are in country, including 69 who arrived yesterday, plus two Coyotes and two eight-wheeled Bison armoured personnel carriers, one configured as a medical evacuation vehicle.

FNG
7 February 2002, 08:59
This was a response from a civvie. Let the flames begin.


Coddled troops lose out
Re A Canadian kit bag in Kandahar, Feb. 5.

As one of the rarae aves who had the unique experience of travelling extensively in Afghanistan and living in Herat, Kandahar, Kabul and Jalalabad during the late 1960s and early 1970s, I can but smile indulgently at the coddled and over-cosseted Canadian soldiers in the country.

Discounting the military accoutrements, I possessed less than one one-hundredth of the items in the Canadian kit bag and still managed to survive and thrive in this magnificent country with its nonpareil people.

The only things missing in the kit bag were a year's supply of Tim Horton's doughnuts and Labatt Blue or Molson. Please spare me. Obviously, mental and moral toughness are not part of the Canadian equipment.

The fawning media have warned about the dangers lurking in Afghanistan.

Dangers? Naturally, Afghanistan is dangerous. It has always been such. Probably the most dangerous place in the world. Bandits, rogues, every boy and man armed with rifles and mountain roads that lead into the sky.

Yet, the risks were the chief attraction for adventurers and those who sought only astonishment beyond the eye.

The whole Canadian presence reminds me of a Boy Scout camp rather than a military operation.

Don't forget to write home to mother.

Oke G. Pamp

Tweed, Ont.

maj123
7 February 2002, 11:03
Oh man. So many assholes; so few bullets. What paper was this in?

garett
7 February 2002, 23:05
If that fucker is so tough, what was he doing traveling in the 60's and 70's? He should of been in Nam fighting.

Per Ardua
8 February 2002, 10:48
Recently reported in the Calgary Herald:


Frustrated by having to wear boreal green camouflage uniforms in a desert environment, Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan began slapping brown latex paint onto their rifles, bulletproof vests and other equipment Thursday.

Contingent commander Lt.-Col. Pat Stogran termed the chameleon-like change by the 28 soldiers in one company of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry an example of the initiative he expects from his soldiers. One infantry officer characterized it as traditional Canadian make-do.

"It's a case of improvise, adapt and overcome," said Maj. Mike Blackburn, commander of 5 Platoon, Bravo Company.

Blackburn's soldiers used all manner of techniques to copy the desert camouflage of their American colleagues.

Using paint scrounged from a source they refused to divulge, the soldiers drenched their fabric helmet covers, splashed their bulletproof vests, painted their black gun barrels and daubed the stocks of their machine guns.

To imitate the texture of the desert terrain, some soldiers poured fine brown sand onto the wet paint. Others covered sections of their rifles with desert-camouflage tape. They'd purchased a $25 roll of the tape from a gun and military memorabilia store before leaving Edmonton.

"I don't suppose the government will be reimbursing us," said one soldier.

The browning of Blackburn's soldiers will now be copied by all 750 soldiers of the Canadian contingent, said Stogran.

"Camouflage is very much an individual thing. It is certainly in our bag of tricks to do this," he said.

The Canadian army unveiled its new line of desert camouflage battle gear this week, but the first uniforms aren't expected to be distributed to soldiers in the field until the summer, too late for the soldiers now in Afghanistan.

It's better to adapt than to whine, Stogran said.

"We have to focus on mission success and not cry about spilled milk," he said.

Make-do desert camouflage is nothing new for Canadians, one soldier said. Similar adaptations were made in Somalia but the

improvisations of Blackburn's soldiers go far beyond paint and tape.

Cpl. Chris Arnott was a walking example of the art of improvisation.

On his right shoulder, Arnott sported a small two-way radio, one of a pair purchased from Future Shop for $70. It will allow him to stay in touch with his section buddy when conditions allow unrestricted radio communication.

Arnott bought extra pouches so he could carry more magazines of ammunition for his assault rifle. Since his rifle is equipped with a grenade launcher, he also bought a $50 American vest designed to hold 36 grenades.

"The army gave us bandoleers to carry our grenades but bandoleers jump and jostle when we're moving," he explained.

Strapped to his right thigh were three more rifle ammunition pouches, stitched together by a friend in Edmonton. He can now carry a total of 13 magazines, each filled with 30 bullets.

Each of his ammunition pouches -- the ones issued to him by the army as well as his personal ones -- was held closed with a snap-fastener purchased from Mountain Equipment Co-op rather than the army-issue fastener, which he finds difficult to close.

Change was the order of the day Thursday. Some soldiers stripped the pouch pockets off the front of their jackets and sewed them onto their sleeves.

"If it's on the front of your jacket, you can't get into them once you've put your bulletproof vest over top," one soldier explained.

Before he left Edmonton, Arnott also picked up a pair of kneepads similar to the ones supplied to American foot soldiers. At Mountain Equipment Co-op he purchased additional gloves. To put it all in, he had to buy an extra-large Co-op bag.

"I spent $300 of my own money," Arnott said. "It's worth it though, if it can add to my comfort, speed and safety."


Good for them. Shame on the Gov't for having to have them do it

UberCree
8 February 2002, 11:26
This is EXACTLY why a country NEEDS to go to war every few years.

By the way, Peerless garments from Winnipeg, who are making the CADPAT now, have said publicly that they could run off 2,000 pairs of desert CADPAT in 2 WEEKS.
I guess they are looking for a Quebec company?

UberCree
8 February 2002, 13:13
This is disgraceful...

FNG
8 February 2002, 14:03
No kidding. Guess we'll all have to ditch the "cloak" when we need to reload...

I think it's great that the guys over there can paint their gear, including rifles. It's reassuring to see that NDHQ only reaches so far.

Enfield
8 February 2002, 14:19
To the hippie that backpacked Afghanistan: when has a backpacker's life ever depended on his feet? Or being warm? This is a case of March or Die, you can't keep up, your fucked. You do not get to choose when you move or when you sleep. I doubt he was doing long tabs at night cross-country in his hippie days. And I doubt the soldier will be carrying the Tim Horton's coffee on patrol with him....


That cape is embarassing. Getting desert combats is easy - I have no doubt the Brits and Americans have stores of them, somewhere - use them.
Anything positive that may have been produced by that photo of JTF2 with the prisoners has now been undone. We're still a welfare army.

It was funny, last night when I came home to Residence I was talking to some friends here, and showed them my ruck. They were amazed at how shitty the gear was - and this is after I've spent years upgrading the frame and straps and waist belt.

I think Garrett is right.. we do need to go to war every so often to shake out the cobwebs. Anyone know of any small Caribbean Islands we can attack? How about St. Pierre and Miqueolon? The French always surrender.

enderr
8 February 2002, 15:35
It's cool to know that the RSM, and the CSMs in the 3VP BG are really relaxed with improvisation. Although, because my unit is in Ontario the RCR factor is off the charts. I mean the comments I get when I pull out my black watch cap with safety pinned cat eyes, or my shemagh. But the best was in Nov 98, doing Coy advance to contact and I pulled out my lightweight gortex pants and jacket to go under my combats. I've been tempted to buy a chestrig, but I usually spend all my money on porn and alcohol[what a lifestyle]. I wonder what the RSM would say if I showed up for a weekend with a protect helmet, LASH headset for the 521, an ammo bag for the C9, an aimpoint sight, NVGs, a Glock on my hip in a drop leg holster, a chestrig, and full set of PLCE webbing. I wouldn't get rid of my 62 pattern ruck though, I'ld take that over any hippie co-op technology.

Per Ardua
8 February 2002, 15:45
Canadian Disruptive Pattern (CADPATTM) Uniform

CLS BG-02.001 04 February, 2002
The new Canadian Disruptive Pattern ( CADPATTM) uniform is rapidly becoming part of the Canadian Army's identity and puts Canadian soldiers well ahead of most allies in camouflage survivability. The CADPATTM uniform (pants and shirt) will be issued based on operational need in two distinct variations: Temperate Woodland (TW) and Arid Regions (AR). CADPATTM is a computer generated pattern incorporating sophisticated Near Infrared protection designed to conceal soldiers from image intensification devices (night vision). CADPATTM (TW) is comprised of four specific colours of light green, dark green, brown and black and was first introduced in 1997/98 on the helmet cover for the new helmet then coming into service. At the same time, the pattern was also introduced on a new Soldier's Individual Camouflage Net.

Concurrent with the trials of CADPATTM (TW), work was carried out to identify a uniform for operations in desert, near desert, and savannah environmental conditions. This three-colour pattern, known as CADPATTM Arid Regions (AR), incorporates three different colours of brown. The CADPATTM design for Arid Regions has been approved and the transfer of this digital technology is ongoing to the textiles industry. Canadian industry will follow the general process that was undertaken with the Temperate Woodland pattern to select the appropriate inks and commence test production runs. Once DND has accepted the results then contracts will be put in place for garments for field soldiers.

Before being approved, all items undergo extensive field testing by soldiers. Specifically, these trials confirmed that the technologies involved had been effectively moved from the research and development laboratory to industry for mass production. It is important to note, however, that although extensive trials were conducted to determine the appropriate design and colour of CADPATTM, soldiers do not rely on CADPAT alone for their protection. All soldiers learn to use every means available to camouflage and conceal themselves in different environments.

DELIVERY TIMELINES:

CADPATTM (TW) has been issued to approximately 1/3 of Army soldiers as of Jan 02


Regular and Reserve Army units are expected to be fully converted to CADPAT TM (TW) by the end of 2002. A separate program has begun to convert the Army combat clothing outwear (Gortex TM jackets and pants), which will see first issues occurring in late 2002 / early 2003.


The CADPAT TM (TW) uniform was first worn in an operational theatre in September 2001 in Bosnia-Herzegovina on Operation Palladium Rotation 09 and all subsequent rotations to this theatre of operations will wear CADPATTM (TW).


In light of the deployment of the Immediate Reaction Force (Land) (IRF (L)) to Afghanistan, the CADPATTM (AR) project was expedited with the intent that it will be issued to soldiers in summer 2002.
The patterns and technical data are patent and copyright protected. Also note that the Department of National Defence has acquired the trademark for CADPATTM. A number of Canadian companies have been successful in meeting the rigorous technical specifications for CADPATTM on specific textiles using both Canadian and overseas printing capabilities. The Department of National Defence closely controls CADPAT with all companies agreeing to non-disclosure stipulations for third parties and close control of swatches.

The Army transition to the next generation of soldier operational clothing and equipment has been focussed on the "Clothe the Soldier Project." The Project, in existence since 1995 and in delivery of various items since 1997, will provide state-of-the-art headwear, handwear, underwear, footwear, and cold weather clothing. It will also provide new Personal Ballistic Protection items and a Load Carriage System. All of this clothing and equipment is designed to work as an overall compatible system to better protect our soldiers. Designed with leading-edge technology, the clothing will greatly enhance operational effectiveness and protect soldiers in all weather conditions.

For more information on The Clothe the Soldier Project visit our website at

www.army.forces.ca

Marauder
8 February 2002, 16:29
I'm gonna post that Calgary Herald article on our PL board at the armouries.

It'll be worth the smoking to see the Upper Echelon's reaction to soldiers actually taking some initiative with their kit to make it, what's the word I'm looking for.... oh yeah, USEFUL.

Just to watch the RSM and CSMs shit kittens..... MWAHAHAHAHA!

Jungle
8 February 2002, 17:21
Mr Pamp, from Tweed ont, was in Afghanistan before the conflict with the Russians and current one. Obviously, he has never been in a country that is in the middle of a crisis, during war of immediately following it. When you get to a place in which you cannot even buy a roll of toilet paper, or find potable water, you do need the extra kit. This guy obviously does not understand that finding daily needed stuff for 1 person is easy in normal situations, but supplying thousands of troops with everything they need to not only live, but work and possibly fight, are 2 different challenges. His biggest concern during his trip to Afghanistan in the 60's was probably to find the cheapest opium...

UberCree
8 February 2002, 17:50
Your RSM and CSM should NOT shit kittens. If they do REMIND them of JLC or phase 2 training. Proper cammoflauge is a part of battle procedure. 3PP is simply doing as it is trained.

maj123
8 February 2002, 22:25
Originally posted by Marauder
I'm gonna post that Calgary Herald article on our PL board at the armouries.

It'll be worth the smoking to see the Upper Echelon's reaction to soldiers actually taking some initiative with their kit to make it, what's the word I'm looking for.... oh yeah, USEFUL.

Just to watch the RSM and CSMs shit kittens..... MWAHAHAHAHA!

A smokin' from RSM Soucie sounds very unpleasant indeed. Good luck!

That thar feller scares me sumtin' fierce. 'Specially when he's handlin' firearms.

;-)

TonyM
10 February 2002, 03:07
This leads to the next logical question:

What do you carry in your ruck? I realize Mr Pompfuck or whateve that Frank Zappa wannabe's name is, has only a canteen and a stick for firemaking, but I like things a bit more comfy in peacetime.

garett
10 February 2002, 12:52
Humm, I wonder what I can think of right now that I carry thats non-issue. Well for a sleeping bag liner I binned the issue liner and got a fleece one from Canadian Peacekeeper. I only bring that into the field when I know I'll have enough time to actually sleep in my sleeping bag and won't be doing a lot of humping. I bought a big rucksack liner but it weighs too much so I don't use it anymore. For a frame I use one of the old tube ones. These aren't really in my rucksack but I like to wear my black jungle boots in the summer. Other then that, I try to carry some extra food in my rucksack. Cliff Bars are good. Oh yeah, this summer I had a porno mag in a zip-lock bag in the top flap. Thats all I can think of right now, its too early.

enderr
10 February 2002, 13:32
I carry: canadian flight gloves, shemagh, an american waterproof rucksack liner, compass, camelback, a book, ziplock bags galore, babywipes, brit shelter half, 6'x6' veh cam net, goretex socks, black watch cap, poncho, brew kit[an essential], 1L nalgene bottle[wide neck], powder gatorade, and before an ex I go to a bulk food store and get a bag of mixed junk. Because I'm in a para coy I got my jump ruck issued. but I attached loops of bungee cord covered with 1/2" tubular nylon to the frame, cats eyes on the center pouch, and i replaced the issue straps with A7A cargo straps. I've also got an american polypro sweater I carry. And a black balaclava; every aspiring jedi knight should have one.
A buddy of mine replace his canadian ammo pouches with brit ones, very high speed.

TonyM
10 February 2002, 14:01
Poking through my (brit plce bergen) ruck I find
-US heavyweight polypro set
-Snugpak sleeping bag
-German para folding mat
-US poncho with hood cut off & patched, bungees and tent stakes attached
-Issue biv bag
-spare "sterile" combats (shirt is the old 2 pocket tuck in)
-US angle head flashlight & spare batts
-4pr xtra socks, issued, the new Cdn "combat sock system" we got with the new goretex boots.
-2 tshirts, non issue( 1 cotton unit shirt , 1 Nike coolmax)
-2 xtra underwear, issue coolmax boxers
-Brit Marine windproof smock
-German esbit stove & brew kit
-toiletries kit (civy)

This is all the stuff I always keep in it. Kit may go in or out depending on what I'm doing. Total weight is around 20lbs. This only takes up half the main bag.

FNG
10 February 2002, 14:51
This is what my ruck generally has:

3L camelbak
4 prs socks
3-5 prs coolmax boxers
2 tshirts (looking for coolmax OD green versions)
Gortex jacket or Snugpak softie jacket
clif bars + IMPs
bivy bag
sleeping bag outer (to be replaced with a Softie 3 Merlin)
Ground sheet with bungies + paracord
toiletries kit (razor, deodorant, toothbrush, wetnaps)

Special equipment for specific roles:
Talkabout radio (recce)
Kneepads, goggles (FIBUA)
Binos (Aid to Civil Powers/ recce)

Enfield
10 February 2002, 15:41
Wow, those sem like some long kit lists....
In my ruck I carry:
1 pair combat pants
1 pair polypro underwear, maybe 2
One or Two Tshirts or polypro undershirts (I usualy wear one of the thin American ones)
4 Pairs of socks w/ wick-away liners
Air Mattress only on easy ex's (like the range) or when it's going to be cold
Half Shelter - rarely, but sometimes we're ordered to bring it
Bivy bag - always!
Sleeping bag if it's really cold, otherwise just the fleece liner and Ranger blanket
And of course, the fleece shirt

Food and ammo usualy takes up the rest... topped 100lbs a few times last year.

I'm going to invest in a camelbak soon, damn canteen is useless. Also want to get a mountain stove. I'd kill for a jump ruck. I think a guy in the LSSR makes similar rucks for sale...

Enderr- what the hell do you do with a vehicle cam net???
TonyM - how are the new boots?

farseer
10 February 2002, 20:00
what do you guys recommend for socks for winter ops, i have the normal ghetto boots and my cold toes are gettin pissed. Still waiting for the new issue winter boot.

enderr
10 February 2002, 21:06
It's only 6x6. So its faily managable. I use it for lots of stuff. In the defensive it's great for creating an awning[sp?], as well as covering spoil. In the offensive its great for OPs. I'm tempted to get a white one for winter ops, but I'll probably just steal some white laundry bags and stitch them together.
I forgot to mention the brit shelter half has built in handles so it can be used as a stretcher in a pinch

Per Ardua
11 February 2002, 13:14
Cadpat Poncho liner
Brit Bivvy bag
Brit goretex jacket
Machete
Folding Saw (Laplander)
100 oz camelback bladder
Bungee cords
Poncho
Smart wool socks x 4
Capilene undies x 1 complete set (temp dependant)
Esbit stove (dont leave home without one)
Garmin 12 XL GPS
Silva Compass
Go pack (Brit survival kit)
Silk sleeping bag liner
head lamp
200 ft of para cord
Cdn Flight gloves
Oh and the old Norge wool sweater, combat. (you cant beat wool for warmth)

Thats the essentials...The rest is gravy:D
Or to quote my old CSM "anyone can be uncomfortable in the field shithead".....Its nice to know we were on a first name basis :D

bender
11 February 2002, 13:15
The Brits shelter halfs are bigger than ours and also roll up to be alot smaller.

TonyM
11 February 2002, 13:56
Most brit kit is light years ahead of ours. Except their IMPs, that shit's "minging".

The new goretex boots are top shelf. Almost an exact copy of my USMC boots (but all leather). You'll get two pairs with extra (good) insoles and 10 socks (5 liner/5 outer). Sizing is done very well too, it's to the millimeter in width and length. Get them a bit snug as they loosen up fast.

A lot of what I read you guys put in your rucks is stuff I'm carrying on my belt. Perhaps it's because we hardly ever carry our rucks around. It's usually drop em in the hide and you don't see it again untill nightfall (sometimes not for a couple of days if you're on recce). Thank god for patrol packs.

FNG
11 February 2002, 14:09
Tony, the list of things in my ruck is stuff that I can live without.

On my cbts pockets and FFO, I carry a Suunto compass, pacebeads, LED light, leatherman, FMP complete with aid memoir and zip lock for map, bayonet, nomex gloves, black outer gloves, field dressing, 1 pr wool and 1 pr gortex socks, canteen complete, lexan spoon, 1 IMP entree, 1 clif bar, and a 2L camelbak. Depending on the weather, I may put my snugpak jacket in the buttpack as well.

The obvious ammo, pyro, comms or any other mission essential eq. would be included as well.


What does everyone have on their webbing?

Terry Jones
11 February 2002, 15:56
any websites where we yanks can see the stuff you lads are talking about?

We don't get to see much Canadian or Brit kit and webbing here in the states, I was wondering where I could see some of the stuff you've mentioned like webbing, packs, Brit shelter halfs

:)

FNG
11 February 2002, 15:59
What do you want to see/know about specifically? I can take some pics if you like.

enderr
11 February 2002, 17:21
a little off topic but the QOR are getting their Cold Wet Weather Boots issued this wednesday....bout freakin time...

And with regards to kit in my unit we practically allways carry our rucks. Travel light; freeze at night. It's better to get your body used to carrying your ruck. It also encouragement to workout so you'll be able to keep up when the time comes. Flinging yourself out of an aircraft with full kit, running to the DZ rv with full kit and your chute, then tabbing non-stop, to the single strand rope crossing. Then tabbing to the ptl base, freeze for a few hours then tab to the OP, is just a little taxing....It really becomes apparent who trains in their time off. And I didn't even mention the most useless piece of kit in the CF, the toboggan... I really hope they change that...get rid of it all together.

Enfield
11 February 2002, 20:39
On a Militia ex, given the choice, I wouldn't bother with a ruck. The stuff in my webbing is the really special stuff - rain gear, gloves, toque, neck warmer, extra socks....

I'm still curious about using US mag pouches....
No sign of the boots here on the lower mainland. Got fitted for them in the fall, nothing since then.

I noticed a couple of you mentioned an "esbit stove" - is that different than a mountain stove?

I take it most of you leave the new goretex jacket at home? I know I was done with it when it was useless on a range ex..

garett
11 February 2002, 22:28
Like I've posted before, in March we're getting boots, uniforms, socks, and the all-mighty hat. I think we're only getting 1 X boots, I'm not sure though. I want my CADPAT sniper smock, those things kick ass. Pockets on the sleeves...far out man....

farseer
12 February 2002, 00:09
enfield, I thought you were being sacastic about the US pouches.
They don't fit properly but you can put them on the thin portion of the web belt, the part with the clip, or you just rip off the plastic connector off the CF pouch and sew it onto the US pouch. Those clips are a life saver on the run up, fucking CF cloth connector thingy, I hate that shit.

Marauder
12 February 2002, 02:33
Alright, stupid question:

What's the trick with the bush hat to make it look less gay. I've tried emulating my sect 2IC from course this summer with what he did with his (it looked halfway decent), but mine still looks like crap. I sewed on a nametag and cat's eyes on the back and an OD Regimental crest on the front, but the shape is still an eyesore. Any ideas until I can lay hands on one of the promised "boonie hats"?

PS - For some reason my CQ got like 12 name tapes for me, so I'm getting creative in their use. For ex, makes a great way to find your ruck and kit bag quick in the inevitable jumble after they get tossed off the bus. Now no one can steal my balmoral if they lose theirs, and my nuck bag is easy to ID. Now if I could only scrouge some more OD Regimental crests......

Still no word on CADPAT or G-Tex boots.... I'm beginning to think 31 CBG is LFR's redheaded step-child. And to think we even have 4RCR on the books with us! LOL :P

On a good note, got to sign up to take either a Recce, MG, Comms, OR Driver Wheeled during the summer if RAOTP falls through. Might get a shot at a tasking somewhere too. You lads out on the coasts need a smartass private to do meanial tasks for ya this summer? ;) Just no reg MCPLs or SGTs. [shudder]

FNG
12 February 2002, 11:27
Marauder, take Comms first if you can. It's a slow course, but it qualifies you for recce. If you do manage to get recce... we'll take care of you lol... wait till you get to the E&E portion! I hear the police dogs in Kingston are hungry!

Per Ardua
12 February 2002, 11:43
The Esbit Stove is a great piece of kit. It folds up into something bout the size of a pack of smokes but unfolds to be able to hold anything from a canteen cup to a good sized pot. It uses hexamine tabs to produce the heat and will boil a canteen cup of water in bout 5 minutes flat with only one tab. Hexamine tabs produse quick, hot heat, burn without smoke or noise, but they do smell and the fumes are noxious, if not toxic so beware. In a hide its great if you are frozen to get your hexi stove sparked up sit on your ruck with it at your feet and throw a poncho over the whole affair.....you'll be sweating in minutes.

I give the Esbit stove a rating of :cool: :cool: :cool: 3 cools out of five

TonyM
12 February 2002, 13:05
I hear there's a Recce course going in Shilo this Aug for LFWA.

UberCree
12 February 2002, 13:13
In my Brit ruck I carry:
All the normal shit...PLUS
1 Doll, Blow up, Jenna Jameson NSN 13402-32
1 Bottle Astro glide NSN 13404-43
1 Map with assorted porn map tacked to back
Armalite M4
12 30 rd mags
1,000 rds 5.56


Thats just on EX's.



Hey Biker B.,

Tell them what you carry in your ruck!!!

enderr
12 February 2002, 15:36
You, left out the all essential E and E kit....doc martens, khakis, an oakley hat, and a shirt from american eagle outfitters. A must when you're within 10-15km of a local drinking establishment. I also higly recommend a pocket pussy[my caluses were getting way too out of control].

garett
12 February 2002, 16:07
Area 2 in Gagetown is very close to the Camelot, I've been tempted a few times.

Heres one, I don't know if I've posted this before. I don't talk about it too much because it could of got a lot of people in trouble. In 99 I did my QL3 and we went strait to the Area Concenration EX from the course. A week later it was end EX, a night in the field then we were taking off back to Fredericton. Everyone was pissed off because there was no EX smoker so someone had a cell phone and they were trying to sort that out. If anyone knows Gagetown, we were in Petersville out in the middle of no where, but a highway runs right through it. Being a new private, trying to make a name for myself, I volunteered my help. I called up my parents and asked them if they could drop off a 40 of Royal Reserve under the over pass in Petersville. My dad being an EX Sgt knew where I was talking about. For some reason they were okay with it, probably because they hadn't seen me for a month and my mom wanted to see me. So me, a Cpl. and my former Section commander who I was terrified of from QL3 went and sat under the over pass for awhile waiting for my parents to show up with the booze. It got dark and after about 45 minutes of waiting my parents show up, drive past us, take a left and drive over the overpass towards the guard shack. My dad goes to the guard shack and asks where B Coy is (hes alittle dumb sometimes). The fat commissionaire lady doesn't have a clue. Meanwhile we're all running over the over pass to try and reach my parents car. The Cpl. had a head start so he was ahead. So he runs up to the first car he sees, out of the dark, in uniform, with a bit of cam paint on his face:
Cpl:"Are you the Hallmans with our stuff"
People:"No we're changing our baby"
ooops

So he runs to the next car he sees and it my parents. So he gets the booze and makes it back to the Biv site. By the time I get back all the RR has been distributed and the extra couple bottles of beer my dad stuck in there for me were drank by the Cpl. who picked up the booze from my parents. Oh course I didn't find out about the extra beer until I got home the next day.

So that was a bit of a piss off, but most people liked me because of it, well they liked my parents at least.

garett
12 February 2002, 16:34
Heres a couple more drunk stories.

In Oct 99 I went to my first unit range weekend. We were staying in M5 in Gagetown. My unit used to be full of hard drinking party animals until they all joined the Regs. So its Friday night and its either get drunk or sit around bored. So we head down to the liquor store in Oromocto and I bought a pint of rum. I'd never drank rum before and thought I'd give it a shot. So after a stop at KFC it was back to base. We snuck our booze into our room and proceeded to dig in. After a few Keith's I decided to start on my rum. After that it gets kinda blurry. I remember staggering around a lot and jumping on my friends bed while he was in it, pouring rum and coke on his head. The next thing I remember is throwing up in a paper KFC bag thats next to my bed. When I woke up in the morning I felt like I had been hit by a truck, it was my first time drinking that much alcohol. Somehow I made it to the range and ended up working the butts all day long. For a few hours in the morning all I did was lay on the concrete and drink water from my canteen. The sound of the bullets going over my head was amplified by my hang over, it sounded more like 105s going off.

This next story is more of a warning. Last year around this time we were in Petersville doing jungle lanes with C7s and shotguns on a weekend EX. We took a panel van down to the Wellsford liquor store thats in a gas station. Feeling experimental again I bought a half pint of Johnny Walker and a 6 pack of Heinekens. We split the Johnny Walker but the Heinekens were mine. Open up the first one, smelled like rotten pussy. There was no way of getting more beer except for buying it for inflated prices from the RCR Sgts. So I drank about 4 of them, just couldn't finish them. I spent about 2 hours the next morning on the shitter with a case of explosive diarrhea.

Per Ardua
12 February 2002, 16:40
Ahhhhhh Youth.:D

enderr
12 February 2002, 17:11
...once upon a time a buddy of mine was running cross country at about 3am from ted's diner to meaford and he hit a six foot picket dead on, split his head open.
In Toronto, Monday night is karaoke night at the Peel Pub...2:30am, four guys in civvies, rucks on their backs, running through downtown TO with a sidewalk sign from the Peel Pub.... It looked quite nice in the Jr's the following Wednesday...
One halloween, festivities started in the Jr's, but somehow I ended up at an SNCOs house..shots of Bombay Gin, a couple cans of heineken, and well...someone called a couple escorts. Needless to say, I ended up owing that SNCO a few hundred dollars, which I promptly repaid. It also resulted me being catapulted into legendary status...I was 18....and I had become a man....a very, very, dirty man.

TonyM
12 February 2002, 17:27
What's the trick with the bush hat to make it look less gay

Impossible.
I got rid of the issue one during my QL3 and haven't seen it since. I had to go out and buy one so I could turn it in for my new one. Once you get the new cadpat hat you'll feel much better, until then just use your toque or get a yank watch cap.

You know people wore that style hat for duck hunting 30yrs ago. I thought it looked pretty stupid then, but seemed to be the style. It would go so well with your red/black checked hunting shirt. You could get them at Canadian Tire for 2.99 and had a reversible top to red. Probably still availible in Saskatchewan somewhere.

garett
12 February 2002, 17:49
My bush hat smells so bad....how bad does it smell.....it smells so bad that....ahhhh

I couldn't really think of a good line.

One of my biggest complaints about bush hats is that when you put one on its like sticking your head in a tent. It totally cuts your hearing in half. Wearing one in the middle of July isn't too fun either. The material is about as breathable as a latex condom.

Infanteer
13 February 2002, 03:34
Whoa....By reading the posts on this board I could see a couple more regiments getting disbanded....Just wait till you guys hear about some of the Westie Parties...
(By the way, Fri. 15th is the Return of Westie JR Hottub party, until now prohibited by the CO and Brigade. All 39 BDE. Pers are expected to attend.)

Enfield
13 February 2002, 03:54
hmm... a bunch of fat Westies in a hot tub. Think maybe I'll give that one a miss...:D

Well, I went trolling on the web for some of the high-speed stuff you gusy mentioned. Just about shit myself when I found the snugpak page - those bags are sweet. Just gotta find a place in the Lower Mainland that sell's 'em.

Marauder- ah, the bush hat. I've tried everything on mine.. I've even ironed the damn thing. Very little can be done, the condition is terminal I'm afraid. Wainwright this summer let us wear boonie hats, and the change was amazing....

Garrett- yeah, ya talk all tough, but I still got a picture kickin' around of you in your boxers wearing, or holding, every piece - and I mean everthing, from goggles to fleece liner to FMP cover - of kit Peacekeeper makes. It's rather flattering.
Was it your platoon or the RNBR Frenchies that carried that Gay Pride Flag around all QL3? We invested a lot of work into...acquiring.. that.

You run into our NS Highlanders buddies lately?
You mentioned my buddy from the PLF had gone Engineer - any idea which unit or where we went?

TonyM
13 February 2002, 13:24
Enfield-

About the Snugpak bags. Don't buy one. I had one for almost two years. At first they are great, lightest and most compact, but the insulation breaks down (even faster when you launder). After 2 years it was just a nylon blanket. Go Wiggy's. www.wiggys.com Jerry (the owner) supplies them to SF and backs them up with a lifetime guarantee. Best part: Cheaper than Snugpak. I can get you military pricing.

Per Ardua
13 February 2002, 13:38
Be careful what you get from wiggys too......I have a buddy who bought a wiggys bag that was guaranteed to -40. He slept outside, in a tent, at -25 and froze his rectal unit off....On the upside he took the bag back and got a full refund.

Enfield
13 February 2002, 14:17
Really? Hmm.. knew it was to good to be true. I just about lost it when the website showed the Softie Merlin packed into palm-sized package.
The Brits seem to be nuts for their jackets - any comment on those?

I'll have to take a closer look at Wiggy's. I must admit to being a little leary about buying gear online, without being able to see and examine the kit for myself. But the surplus and outdoor stores around here are limited in what they have.

I'm defintley going to check out Brit and US mag pouches first chance I get - right now the FN pouches (don't ask...) have just ain't cutting it.

UberCree
13 February 2002, 14:37
WIth regards to the above. What is the difference between:

1) Pertex
2) Lamalite
3) Primaloft
4) Polarguard 3D



I've read the stuff on the wiggys webpage saying everythin BUT Lamalite is crap, but how much of that is just his propaganda?

I've got a pertex jacket that I LOVE (but its only 6 months old)and also a primaloft jacket that is awesome. I've washed the primaloft one (MEC) at least 15 times and it is still good.

garett
13 February 2002, 15:03
I think Pepin went to 2CER in Pet. Although he could of went to 1CER in Edmonton. The big dumb highlander from out MG crse was on the same Enginqueer crse as Pepin and the other guys I know. They sent all the top guys to 1CER and the bags to 2CER and Quebec.

I've slowed down in my kit purchasing. Mostly because all the money I have goes to going to see my girlfriend who lives in Moncton. I've got a few things on my list to buy for this summer.

I think its kinda funny reading people's posts about spending money on kit because the fruits in my unit won't even buy nuke bags. They're all in it for the money and thats it.

Those cupcake PLF fruits are heading to Virginia for an EX soon. I have no idea how the hell units fund those things.

FNG
13 February 2002, 16:53
Thumbs up on the snugpak softie or sleeka series of jackets that the Brits wear. I have the Softie jacket, and it's a great replacement for the fleece. Warmer, smaller, lighter, water resistant, and best of all, it still works when soaked! If you want to know more, email me.

Nearly the entire British military uses them... that can't be wrong.

TonyM
13 February 2002, 17:07
Pertex is the outer material on the bags, jackets, etc. It's a high-tech nylon. Makes a great "stashaway" shirt.
Lamilite, Primaloft, Polarguard are all brand names of the latest/greatest insulation. Lamilite and the Snugpak "softie" insulation are the most compressable, to an absoulutly amazing degree, but the softie deterioates with use and washing.
I tried getting Snugpak to replace or fix my bag, they wouldn't even return my emails or phone calls when I complained about the insulation. Check out more stories in the Gearnet.
I don't know anything about the jackets, but all those brits can't be fools.
When shopping to replace my Snugpak, I contacted friends at 1 SFG in Lewis, as they encounter the same or worse weather as we do here. All they told me was Wiggys. Same in the Gearnet here too. Wiggys also makes Snugpak- like jacket. I like how the owner Jerry will deal with you himself, very keen on the military, and stand behind anything he sells. When I pay big bucks for kit it's good to know you got a fall back position. And of course-bottom line- it's cheaper.

farseer
14 February 2002, 03:28
Infanteer - there was a westie on my jump course, has a penchant for dancing in his underwear.

heard of him?
if you see him tell him you're not afraid to say "homo milk" then laugh and walk away.
hahahah
Also tell him the Cal highs are back in Trenton on the 26 of Feb and he better get his ass there and finish the course!!

:D

oops, rookie mistake

Enfield
14 February 2002, 04:07
I've checked out the Wiggy's site - it's fun reading his newsletters. He bashes Gore-Tex, Northern Face, 3M and other big companies incessantly. I wonder if GoreTex realy is as useless as he says.

Well, TonyM's comments match with Wiggy's review of the Snugpak sleping bags - they get destroyed when washed. So, it leads me to question the Softie jackets - on one hand, the Brits seem to worship them, but if the bags don't work....

Any advice on buying Camelbak's? That's something I'm defintely going to purchase soon. Does it really matter which make/brand? Will the average MEC one do me fine?

Garrett- I think you stopped buying kit because was there was nothing left. Your locker on the MG course was a Peacekeeper catalogue.
I was wondering if I might run into Pepin this summer in Edmonton.
How'd the PLF get to go to Virginia?? They never went anywhere when I was there.

Infanteer
14 February 2002, 04:08
Sweet, we can swap Sgt G stories. I've been under his foot all year for some course or another. You're going to see him all summer, cause he's got a CRIC section. Just remember he also has a penchant for hot little asian chicks.

FNG
14 February 2002, 12:38
Enfield: Wiggy's pretty much bashes every other product not made by him. That makes me somewhat skeptical about his claims.

I have heard of the problems with snugpak bags losing their insulation as well, but I have also heard plenty of stories from those who said that as long as you follow the washing guidelines, they will not fail.

I've had my jacket for half a year now. I use it all the time, and I've had no problems yet. When not using it, I hang it up uncompressed. If I need to wash it, I just do it by hand instead of a machine.

As for hydration systems, I recommend the Camelbak brand. I've used them for years and never had a problem. I find that they are better than some of the other ones out there such as Platypus, Hydrastorm, the old Eagle Liquidators or Source hydration. They can definitely stand up to infantry abuse. Just make sure you get one that has a flow cut-off valve built in. If not, you can buy one for a few dollars.

Per Ardua
14 February 2002, 12:48
The problem with goretex is that it dont stand up well to getting dirty.
Goretex is actually a derivative of teflon and if you look at a cross section of the stuff it looks like an aero bar. When it gets dirty these pores clog up and the water shedding and breathability properties go right out the window.

I have a Brit Goretex shell that goes into the washer and Dryer after every time I am in the woods.

"Goretex: Wash it lots and dry it hot"

farseer
14 February 2002, 22:57
I know, he's good friends with my section commander too, which does not bode well for me.
:(

Infanteer
31 July 2003, 17:38
ya, you see a trend here, don't you....