Non Tab folks on NG/Res. teams...right or wrong?

[SOTICgrad]

So I'm wondering...what do folks think about personnel that have not been Q'ed, but serve or served on NG/Res teams. Asked about this in another thread and got a little insight. I believe that currently you will stay in an NQP platoon until you go to the Q. Is this correct?

I'm not putting down anyone for doing their job, without everyone all the high speeds would eat it, due to lack of support. However, I know that in the past there were non Q'ed folks on teams, but in what capacity? Certainly they couldn't be considered "operational," could they? I know of people who wear the mantle of "SF", mentioning their years in the SF Res or NG, their time as Weapons Sgt, implying that they are part of this brotherhood and yet...they never went to the course or never passed, but some stayed for years and will tell anyone that will listen. In my book that is the same as the Green Beret situation a few years back, where we actually saw pregnant women wearing the beret. Shouldn't that rate the term "wannabe?"

It seems to me that if you never went through the course you are a support guy, and this is a noble profession. The terms...Weapons, Engineer, Medical, & Commo Sgt. are not job titles, they are MOS's that many have worked exceedingly hard to obtain. Having filled a slot is just not the same thing. Maybe my active time has tainted me, so I'd like some more insight on how others feel and maybe their insights from experience.

[SECON]

SOTICgrad,

First of all it should be understood that whil I am an NCO surrently serving in a combat arms unit in the guard, I am not an "operator".

As far as non-q'd personnel serving on teams and the capacity within which they served, I have had the honor and pleasure of serving with an one SSG. Michael McGuire.
Mickey, is a real deal operator (yes, I've HAVE seen his 201 and his 2-1). He is a former recon Marine, who through luck or misfortune spent over a year in the Central Higlands with MACV-SOG. He is authorized to wear the SF SSI on his right arm in addition to some impressive decorations.

My point is this, while he was not a grad of the Q and thus is not "tabbed", those that I have spoken to who worked with him "back in the day" all hold him in high regard...and not a one has ever even mentioned that he isn't "tabbed"

As for the here and now, to qoute an acquaintance who is a grad of the Q and Combat Diver course and has served on active duty (5th Group)as well as in the reserves (11th Group and 404th CA BN [FID/UW]" I don't care what hat you're wearin' as long as I KNOW you can get the job done."

[E19]

Secon,

Your statement regarding the a Recon Marine that served with MACV-SOG being authorized to wear the SF SSI on his right sleeve has me a bit puzzled. MACV-SOG was not an SF unit so why would he be authorized to wear the SF combat patch?

By the way, "back in the day" the SF Tab didn't exsist. The long tab was authorized in 1984.

[Ranger002]

Matt Anderson ( Soticgrad)
Since you are reffering to me and do not have the gumption to state so publicly I suggest that you may try to whine to me privately.For the record folks... I am Ranger Qualifed ( tabbed) and spent ten years in the Amry Reserve on team ODA332. I was not allowed to go on most AT's or to any active duty SF school until I became SF qualified. I attemped to become qualified through the "reserve" Q course ( now there's a thread) but got caught in the middle between the new and old standards.I left in 92 without the coveted triple canopy on my shoulder. As far as what kind of soldier a non tabbed SF guy could be well you have a a example here Matt. It ain't the tab is it Matt.It's the man.That being said you know where I am if you care to discuss this in person look me up.
William(Non-tabbed)Hazen ODA332 C 3/12 SFGA 1982-1992

[Ranger002]

Oops I meant Army Reserve not Amry ha ha ha.True to my word I am now getting into the front leaning rest position.
William Hazen Man Myth Misspeller ha ha

[SECON]

E-19,

Not sure EXACTLY how/why he is qualified to wear SF SSI, but I do know for a fact that he is authorized. This came to light when a REMF/POGUE/CANDYA** NCO, who thought that serving as the Readiness NCO in a combat arms unit meant that he was instantly "high speed", initiated an official inquiry, which determined that McGuire was/is authorized to wear that SSI.

As a matter of fact, this same sh**bag then had the balls to question whether McGuire was authorized to wear foreign jump wings (Vietnamese) which, as it turned out, he was/is.

And while Ranger Hazen makes a very good point (above all else it's the man, not the tab)IMHO the tab speaks volumes about the person wearing it...in ALMOST all cases.

Stay Alert, Stay Alive

[Ranger002]

Amen SECON,

I have seen this "debate" before and I usually handle it the same way. For example the first Black Medal of Honor winner in WWII was a cook's helper! And I have seen some "tabbed" folks act pretty cowardly. Though I do agree that most of the time it speaks well of the person. To quote my Sensi "William! Your blackbelt only shows that you are a good student and is the true beggining of your practice".It is what you do after you get the tab(s) Beret(s)Bolo Badge(s) that shows me what kind of "brother" you are. At least we don't have to boast we are something we're not... RIGHT MATT?
William Hazen

[Ranger002]

Amen GUY,

Good to see you on the server!Make no mistake... YOU ARE THE MAN ! Take Care and God Bless
William Hazen