FARC

[BDM]

I'm interested in finding out more about the FARC and other rebel groups in Columbia, as well as what the US government is doing to aid the Columbian government. Does anyone know of any good sources for such information? Thanks in adavance.

-BDM

[Silent_warrior]

Try this: http://www.ict.org.il/

[airbornelawyer]

It's Colombia, not Columbia.

If you want the propaganda side, go here (http://www.farc-ep.org/), the FARC's web page (which is actually hosted by some American college).

If you want the official Colombian government side, and can read Spanish, go here (http://www.mindefensa.gov.co/), the Colombian Ministry of Defense homepage.

This is a bit out-of-date (from 2000), but it shows some of what the US has been doing: http://www.defenselink.mil/policy/solic/deps/country_plan.html

Dave

[neoprogressivedoraemon]

Hello,please allow me to show my opinions about FARC,please.
Because I'm U.N. volunteer in peace process .
And I know some activities of FARC.
Before we discuss about FARC activities.
We should understand their masterminds a little bit.
FARC is Marxism.they believe about everybody equal about men,women,children,ageing people equal.
And they think Columbia government corruption.
And create paramilitary to be their arch of enemy.
(FARC don't like paramilitary.)
They said,"Paramilitary is assasinating group of government."
And they want international humanitarian law to involve more about current sistuation.
That's why United Nations come.
(And we will not duscuss or want to alldge
Columbia government involve paramilitary or not.)
And United Nations will never do that too.
Because Columbia government is the friends of United Nations & U.S. government.
And United Nations have policy to help poor people to get equal and anything about humanitarian affair too.
And FARC believe about nationalism too.
They said "they will attack anybody who are foreign people in their areas."
But they offer some area to be demilitalizing zone.
"Yari region."in Columbia but the Columbian government must help them to develope about cattle farm and another business crops,or eatable crops to replace Marihuana or coca or opium.
But restriction too.
Because if out of demilitalizing zones they will not gauruntee about safety.
And if I can beg or request cooperation from Columbia government.
I think if Columbia government can allow them to join Columbia's army.
Because ,to be honestly,some of FARC leaders want to have rights to contest in election.
(Like I said,they believe everybody equal,so they deserve the rights to be politicians or elses by legal method,"election".)
But before that time,if they want to be the part of government.
The best I can do is beg Columbia government to allow them to join army.
Similar to Tamil tiger & Silanga government.
Army department is government department ,am I correct????
That's all of progression about U.N.'s peace process about FARC.
But I heard they are acting violent in Columbia.
I want to warn them.
If they still killing people,I can not help them anything.:confused:
But if they like Humanitarian law,I have one.
It's U.N. declaration of Millenium.
"Everybody equal in New Millenium,men,women,children, & ageing people are equal in the New Millenium."
Thank you very much.:D

[Robal2pl]

About U.S. help for Columbia goverment: It's seems the Colombian special forces are trained by "Green Berets"
About other guerilla groups: There is ELN group and IMO this group also should be involved in peace process. In my opinios goverment should stop paramilitares like AUC, because they seem to be the obsacle on the way to peace..

[SN]

I guess murders and kidnappings carried out by the FARC are actually helping the peace process?

[Jimbo]

Oddly enough, they are.

Colombians by and large are fed up with the FARC and ELN, ergo the popularity of whats-his-name, the hard liner. The more the citizens are fed up, the greater the mandate the government has to pursue the guerrillas. The greater the mandate, the more the government can accomplish toward fighting the guerrillas to a 'hurting stalemate'. If the government can hurt them enough, their positions will change dramatically at negotiations. A la the M-19.

[airbornelawyer]

One other consideration with regard to Colombia is that our strategic objectives there do not just relate to counternarcotics. Regional stability is also a factor.

A Colombian Captain I went to IOBC with once pointed out how the representation of Colombia on the Colombian coat of arms shows Panama as well. When overcome with nostalgia, some Colombians feel about Panama the way Argentinians feel about the Falklands/Malvinas and Saddam does about Kuwait.

While it is hard to imagine a Colombian attempt to retake Panama a la Saddam, there is a fear in Panamanian political circles that instability in Colombia could spread across the border. While most rebel activity is in the south, around Caguan, there is a fear that if rebels began operating from bases in the jungles along the Panamanian border, the Colombian armed forces would cross the border to deny them sanctuary.

The Panamanians, during their rush to get the US to pull its troops out of the country, had second thoughts when this possibility occurred to them, and so they decided that a permanent "temporary" US presence, in the form of US troops undergoing jungle training rotations, wouldn't be a bad idea. An American presence makes it less likely that ELN or FARC guerrillas could hide out along the border, and thus the Colombians wouldn't have to cross the border looking for them.


Dave

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by airbornelawyer
An American presence makes it less likely that ELN or FARC guerrillas could hide out along the border, and thus the Colombians wouldn't have to cross the border looking for them.


It has not worked so far. The FARC and ELN cross the border regularly. They even conduct kidnappings in southern Panama.

Everything else, though, spot on.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Tiberian
The greatest military and political pressure has been placed upon the FARC not by the military or government, but by the paramilitaries. The PM's kill the G, the PM's erode public support for the G, the PM's make life uncertain for the G. And who does the State Department have wood for? The narcoterrorists who kidnap, destroy and plunder? The ones who have plunged this rich nation into uncertainty and fear? Nope. We go after the only people who are putting any effort into resisting those animals.


The autodefensas are just as bad as the Gs. Both are extrajudicial extremes that need to be taken care of.

[Carnej1]

Although I respect your "ground truth" I cannot concur with the assertion that the Colombian Paramilitaries are noble defenders of Freedom and Democracy . The PM's might manage to isolate the FARC from public support in some areas,but only by terrorizing the populace. They probably create as many FARC supporters as they deter. It's documented that the PM's,like FARC and much of the Colombian Military and police are in bed with drug traffickers,one ot the stickiest issues in developing US policy towards Colombia. There is also no question that the PM's(as does FARC) follow the time honored Central/ South American tradition of using the excuse of "defending the people" to wipe out all their rivals and legitimate opposition.
With all due respect(especially if you've served in the military,I have not) what defines terrorism is tactics,not political ideology,and frankly you're either for terrorism or against it. Right wing death squads have played as a much of a role in keeping countries like Colombia in the S#$@hole state that they're in as the Guerrilla groups have.

[okami]

the FARC finances itself with narcodollars, they started aut as a political movement for Colombia, now they are terrorists and drug dealers

they get no sympathy from me

hard working narc, Okami

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Tiberian
They came about because the G were taking their children, burning their homes, destroying their crops, stealing their money and killing their husbands and fathers.

That is a very simplistic way of looking at how paramilitaries come into being. It also happens to be very wrong.

It's a war of extinction between them and the FARC. Neither side takes prisoners, neither side gives quarter. It's a type of war that America thankfully has little experience with.

While you may have some ground time, you know dick about Colombian history.

They just want enough G's to die that the war comes to an end. And then they want to go home and enjoy the peace.

Honestly, are you part of Carlos' counter propaganda program?

You make some valid points overall, but you solution is all dicked up.

[HaistVittu]

The following is from Bob Cromwell's site (http://www.cromwell-intl.com/security/netusers.html):

"Fuerzas Armadas de Colombia (FARC) -- Armed Forces of Colombia, funded through drug money. The Colombian national government has basically surrendered and given control of one province to FARC. Their Voz de la Resistencia radio station, most recently heard on 6238 kHz, is reported to use a maildrop at: Comision Internacional, Apartado Postal 27552, C.P. 06761, Mexico D.F., Mexico, while their website at www.resistencianacional.org was based on a server in Switzerland the last time I ran traceroute.
http://www.resistencianacional.org/
http://www.contrast.org/mirrors/farc/
farc-ep@comision.internal.org
elbarcino@laneta.apc.org
http://home.swipnet.se/anncol/ -- the Swedish-based FARC news agency Anncol
http://farc.narod.ru/
http://burn.ucsd.edu/~farc-ep/ "

Happy hunting.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Tiberian
Did my small bit against the FMLN 1990-1991.

Alright, professor, why not tell us how this little conflict came to an end and do you consider U.S. pressure on ELSAL's military to sever ties with the paras to have been a significant factor?

I know fuck all about Colombia, but I do know a thing or two about long term small wars and your solution has usually served to escalate violence and protract conflict. While addressing the security concerns of a community, you are neglecting at least three other crucial issues.

No matter how effective paramilitaries are, any government that allows them to operate is effectively undermining their own authority. What is the solution to that? I don't know, ask some State wonks.

I wrote a little paper on El Bilar. If you'd like, next time I'm down south we can get together and give each other paper cuts.

Before you go telling people which lines their toeing, you would be well advised to know where the lines are drawn.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Your take on what went down in El Salvador, although it conforms to a basic geopolotical explanation, differs from what I have heard from many of the US advisors on the ground there.

Does that sound like a group that's planning on staying around? The AUC has no political agenda apart from the eradication of the guerrilla and the establishment of a process that will prevent oppressions causing more rebellions. Peace is their only goal, and they are willing to kill every G in Colombia to get it.

If you really believe this, I really don't know what to think.

This is all news to me and you are the ONLY person to have reported such activity. Please go to the Embassy and tell them all of this.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Tiberian
The Embassy, knows, the Embassy doesn't care. Anything that does not support "the AUC are a bunch of murdering terrorists that are no better than the FARC" gets ignored, poo-pooed or brushed aside. State already has a vested interest in the "fact" that the AUC is not a legitimate part of the equation.

There are elements at the embassy that are not state department. Call (571) 315-0811 and ask to speak to a military attache.

Well, the non-terrorist FARC spent their weekend attacking a small town near Bogota. The defenseless locals locked themselves in the church and begged for mercy. The FARC sent a gas cylinder mortar into the church, killing about a hundred innocent civilians.

Nah, they ain't terrorists!

Tell me the FARC doesn't deserve to be hunted down and killed to a man.

Have all the fumes you inhaled while gassing up DynCorp helicopters affected you? Who was the FARC fighting in that town? Who the f**k was deliberately positioning themselves near the church to draw the FARC's fire? And don't tell me the 'ineffectual government forces are using the AUC as a scapegoat'.

Your account of events corresponds with the AUC propaganda line. Have you bought in? Eiter that or you have some serious blinders on. Your writings remind me of the interview with the FARC chick that was posted on their website.

I really don't want to set up a course of anamosity here, but your stories are pretty tough to swallow. As I said, I don't know much about Colombia, but I know a lot of people who do and your 'stories' don't add up with any of them.

The guerrillas need to be hunted down, no doubt, but not by their mirror image. Let COLMIL do thier job.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Never worked in an embassy. Never want to.

Originally posted by Tiberian
There are no credible claims of the AUC killing any civilians.

Not in this attack. There are, however, numerous reports of the AUC killing folk with sledgehammers and rocks for being guerrilla supporters. The AUC is responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, just as the FARC.

And I'd like to know, specifically, which of my 'stories' don't jive with your mysterious 'in the know' buddies. You wanna call me a bullshitter, let it fly. I want to know what you have to back that up, though....I sometimes exaggerate for effect, but I seldom bullshit.

Specifically, I can find no credible evidence that the AUC has undertaken the civic action programs or returning of property that you alluded to in an earlier post. That is what I wanted you to speak to the embassy there about. That would be an important strategic shift.

My 'in the know' buddies number around a hundred and range from the Colombian UN rep to a couple of Sargents in the CNP and from the whole Santo Domingo family to the del Rosario water polo team. And there once was this girl... Thats the natives. If you want to play the US game we can throw some of the SF contingent, a few other former advisors and II MEF in the mix.

Please name a town that is not integral in the cocaine trade that the AUC has 'liberated' for the good of the citizens.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Too bad Pinochet gave up power as soon as communism fell and became prey to the mob. And too bad Fujimori turned out to be a crook. Neither will be remembered for preventing anarchy and bloodshed in their countries while violence raged around them.

I'd be all for the AUC if:
1) I thought they legitimately wanted to help the towns in which they operated.
B) The solution they brought would be a long term one.
4) they hadn't been founded (essentailly) by the narcos.
5) they were purely defensive and accountable to a court

Paramilitaries and dictators offer only temporary reprieve to an entrenched conflict, usually they buy a generation of peace, sometimes less. No lasting solution. Fujimori did a good job with non Inca SL, but the resurgent SL is straight Inca. Thier beefs were never addressed and now their getting cranky again.

I'm a lazy bastard, so if I do something, I want to do it once and be done with it.

I don't want to have to keep beating down squatters every couple of years, so I'll look for other solutions to the problem; negotiating interests rather than positions.

That is the root of the problem with negotiations in Colombia. The FARC has to negotiate from their historically stated position or risk being exposed as fakes if they negotaite their interest (which is: give us all billions of dollars or leave us alone to run our drug labs). The AUC also has a tendency to misrepresent its position vs. its interest. They are making a lot of money now and fighting the FARC is good for business, which is slightly off from their people defense force bit.

You example of the AUC in Boyaca as an example of liberating a town is a little weak. Of course the AUC is not going to cause much trouble if the town rolls over. But the FARC comes to town for a visit in what they thought was their territory and...crap, fire fight. Town gets waxed and life goes on in Colombia.

I agree no one has the strength or energy to affect change. That's why a real leader needs to emerge (by virtue or force) and then the US needs to back him, train up COLMIL, fight the fight and give disinterested parties and incentive to stay home during the ruckus.

[Tiberian]

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[PS11B10]

BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) - Colombia's far-right paramilitaries, seeking to clean up their bloody image to be accepted as a legitimate political movement, have launched an Internet complaints hotline.


The United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, an outlawed militia known by the Spanish initials "AUC," said on Thursday that members of the public who suffer "excesses" at the hands of its fighters can write in to a new e-mail address.

The group, which claims more than 10,000 members and targets leftist rebels fighting a 38-year-old war, killed about 1,000 civilians in 2001 alone, according to the government.

In one case, AUC members killed 27 peasants with sledgehammers and stones in the village of Chengue, accusing them of collaborating with Marxist guerrillas.

But senior AUC leader Carlos Castano, who admits to having killed many times, wants right-wing militiamen to commit fewer massacres and cut back links with drug traffickers. He aims to win the AUC -- which human rights groups say has continued to kill just as many people as ever -- a seat at any negotiating table to end Colombia's bloody conflict.

"Any accusations or complaints should be directed to Commander Adolfo Paz at the electronic address auc_inspeccion@hotmail.com," said the announcement on the AUC Web site (http://www.colombialibre.org).

The announcement, signed by the AUC's "General Staff," said it was "conscious of the difficulties and possible excesses committed by all armed groups, including our own, whose cause is just."

The paramilitary leadership has said recently it was particularly worried by extortion and robbery by some AUC groups in northern Colombia.

PARAMILITARY BOSS OFFERS HELP WITH DRUG LORDS

The AUC -- a confederation of smaller paramilitary groups -- has origins in vigilante forces set up by cattle ranchers to defend themselves against the rebels. Some paramilitaries were allied to drug traffickers, and Castano concedes that the AUC draws considerable income from "taxing" cocaine.

Castano has offered to help negotiate the surrender of top drug traffickers to U.S. authorities. But the United States will not deal with the AUC, which it brands "terrorist."

The Colombian government earlier this year broke off unsuccessful peace talks with the country's largest Marxist rebel group, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, and is trying to start negotiations with the smaller National Liberation Army -- known as ELN.

So far, the government has refused to deal with the AUC, although senior members of the armed forces have been investigated for cooperating with the right-wing militias. A Navy admiral is being probed for failing to prevent the Chengue massacre, and human rights groups say the government should act much more firmly against military-paramilitary links.

Increasingly, Colombian and U.S. officials say the paramilitaries' strength means they will probably have to be involved in any eventual peace settlement.

Despite a reputation for brutality, the AUC has grown faster than Colombia's still more numerous rebel groups in recent years. About 8 percent of Colombians say they sympathize with paramilitaries, compared to 1 percent for the FARC.

Public attitudes against the guerrillas -- who finance themselves not only with cocaine but also by kidnapping -- have hardened here. Hard-line anti-rebel independent Alvaro Uribe is heading to win May 26's presidential election, polls show

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by 20th_SFG_trainee
BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) - Colombia's far-right paramilitaries, seeking to clean up their bloody image to be accepted as a legitimate political movement, have launched an Internet complaints hotline.

The United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, an outlawed militia known by the Spanish initials "AUC," said on Thursday that members of the public who suffer "excesses" at the hands of its fighters can write in to a new e-mail address.


That's fanfuckingtastic. How many campesinos do you know with web access?

I'm still waiting for a town the AUC has liberated that is not strategically related to the drug trade.

[Tiberian]

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[Jimbo]

Tiberian,
You are wrong.

[Tiberian]

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