Sacrifice now....for later

[Falcon]

I'm just another new kid on the block. Just finishing up my 3rd year of college and want to do a few years in the service after school. My degree is in Criminology with an area of concentration in Security procedures.
Now here is where it gets interesting; I have talked to recruiters from all the services briefly. All the services have their goods and bads. I'm qualified to be an MP, but don't wish to be a cop in the military at first--maybe down the line. Some of the Special Operations sound interesting, and I may consider that route. My primary interest is in Antiterrorism or Counterterrorism (they are not the same, but border on the same end result). AT is more along the preventitive means while CT is more offensive in terms of the actions taken.

Perhaps I can give all of you my wants and desires, and in return all of you can give me some experienced feedback.
I want to learn some valuable tactical weapons experience from CQB to assembly and disassembly of some small-arms weaponry. I want to become a ceritified military diver (already civilian trained). I'd like to participate in MOUT operations or at least get trained in urban tactics. Going to jump school does not excite me, but like anything else (I will do it if it helps me get somewhere more worthwhile)
Some of the recruiters have mentioned Air Force Security Forces, USMC F.A.S.T,
and Delta. I'm aware of a few units that are out there. I know next to nothing about various Intell. groups.
I don't want or need to shine a chair seat with my ass, (I may consider the officer programs down the line) I'm young now "I need to get the training in". Besides in the state of the current US military as far as recruitment goes--they could use me for a while. Secondly, further down the line I naturaly would be looking at a federal law enforcement agency like the Secret Service, ATF, DEA or even consider becoming an HRT "bureau bum"---just kidding! I just need to get some of your opinions as to what you think would be right for me---from what I described. All feedback good or bad is welcome and much needed. Thanks everybody.

[Scout]

In general, one does NOT go into Special Operations, then move into MPs on down the line. Also, Special Operations isn't a ruoute you consider because it sounds interesting.
And saying the going to jump school doesn't excite you--well, that's not the best thing to say on a board full of HOOAHs. In the AF, security forces are simply MPs, so if you don't want to be an MP in the military, don't go into the AF as SF. finally, you do no just enlist into Special Operations, definitely not Delta and probably not F.A.S.T.

If you just want to go through MOUT training, sign up for the infanry or cavalry scouts, with the advent of peacekeeping, pretty much everyone has to be ready to perform combat operations in cities.

If its "natural" that you're going to end up in FLE, then just goin one of those organizations, pay your dues there, then try out of their teams. Prior military experience isn't going to let you jump onto the HRT, CLET, SOG, etc without earning your place in the trenches with those units.

Scout

BTW, thank you for offering to single-handedly solve that Militarys recruitment problems.

[Jeff Rambo]

You need to change your attitude in some of your 'views.'

Good luck to you on changing the recruiting problem in the military. Sounds like you'd make a great Butter Bar.

- Out

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w/ Regards,
Jeff Rambo

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I Want A Four Man Team On A Midnight Run ...

[Scout]

>Good luck to you on changing the recruiting >problem in the military. Sounds like you'd >make a great Butter Bar.

Oh come on Jeff, that's an insult to Butter Bars!!!! :-)

[Falcon]

You two are certainly a waste of space...a person comes to this site asking advice and you bash him for wanting to get some feedback and participate in serving his country. If you guys think your two last posts make you both sound tough, you missed the reality boat. You guys sound like sissies. You guys are judgemental along with being arrogant. I DON'T EXPECT TO FIX ANYTHING ALONE....just want to serve my country and get some top-notch training.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by Falcon:
You guys are judgemental along with being arrogant.

You are correct. We all are.

Here's a couple tips for you, Sparky:

(A) Start reading the thousands of posts in this excellent website. Had you done that, your SECOND post (welcome aboard, by the way) in this forum could have been more pointed.

(B) Once A (above) is completed, you will be more inclined to ask well-educated questions we would all be happy to answer to the best of our abilities. Don't mitakenly assume this operator-rich forum as a license for you to be lazy in your reasearch.

(C) Grow some thicker skin.

(D) Be polite to us. You are a 21-year old unproven college student punk; we are the real deal. Don't let yourself get confused.

[MP18D]

Falcon
Read some of the other threads/posts here and the rest of this site.
Cool out.
Give me a ring at MP18D@home.com.
Mike

[Baker]

Maybe nmnelson76 could give him some suggestions? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Baker (edited 10-08-2000).]

[Sharky]

Are MY services required here?

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[Scout]

Falcon,

Do I care if I sound like a hard ass or a sissy to you? I've stated exactly who and what I am number times in various places on this forum. If you want respect, then show it to the people--board vets, SOF operators and conventional soldiers--who make this site what it is. I don't have to try to impress anyone. However, I like everyone else on this board, gets tired of the same question being asked weekly--nmnelson posted virtually the same question less than a week ago. Try finding the info for yourself first--reconnaissance is a mission of virtually every SOF unit.

Tack--Excellent response! Short, sweet, and tothe point.

Scout

[Falcon]

Alright, it was my "bad"! I took some time and went back through some of the old forums.
I got a few of my questions answered. So, there for I admit I was a little in error for bringing up the "same old, same old"!
However, I did not expect or appreciate getting my ass chewed from the get go. I don't mind being warned, but don't "jump my shit". I'm not a fear biter, I just don't like being backed in a corner.....understand my point? I will ask more directed "to the point" questions in the future. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif




[This message has been edited by Falcon (edited 10-09-2000).]

[Kiva]

Falcon,

I have a question for you...

Are you a ticket puncher? For somebody who wants to do a "few years in the service" you want an awful lot...

You said:

"I'm young now I need to get the training in. Besides in the state of the current US military as far as recruitment goes--they could use me for a while."

To me, that's part of the problem. People who join the military to gain experience for a job in the civilian world, college money etc. Would you still join if you couldn't do any of the cool stuff? That's nice that you have goals after your military career, I do too. But, that's not my reason for wanting to join. In my teenaged civilian opinion, you have NO heart. What the military needs is people with heart that do not care about the perks, who join to serve, period. I understand you want to have fun while you are in the military (I had my mind set on a specific MOS and I found out that I'm not old enough so I'm looking for another MOS that I would enjoy before I sign my name in blood), but don't join the military to have fun. Because you might get disappointed down the line when you don't get all of your "training" and end up one of those whiny people talking about how (whatever branch you join) screwed them over. Also, you don't "appreciate getting your ass chewed out"? Where did that happen? That's an ass chewing to you?

I'd like to say, I am also arrogant and I come from a dysfunctional family (a deadly combination), my wallet says "Bad Ass Bitch" (inspired by Sam Jackson's wallet "Bad Mother Fucker" in Pulp Fiction). So, excuse me for being judgmental.

Guy Jones,

Please don't flame me for posting my opinion in your forum, it was necessary to post my opinion so that he would know why I asked if he's a ticket puncher.

Kiva

[Paintman]

Falcon, this ain't an ass chewing, it's called an "attitude readjustment session". http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Good luck,
Chris

[willis]

Whats with everyone posting their background info now

[RUDEDAWG]

The same reason people always talk about themselves when they first meet you.

>>They feel a need to identify
with what they've accomplished because
they feel incomplete or inadequate
without some kind of credential.

i.e."I have a B.A., Masters, Ph.D. in Nuclear Science Biological<yak><yak><yak>..."
[translation..."Don't think I'm dumb"]

"My name is Biff I'm in highschool and I can run a country mile in 3 minutes<blah><blah><blah>..."
[translation..."Please tell me I'm good enough to make it in the SEALs, Force Recon, Rangers"]

I don't mean to pick on Falcon because he may have just been providing info on himself to give a picture of what he is trying to accomplish in life. But it is a SORRY MAN that has to put out a list of accomplishments in front of himself to feel like a REAL MAN. There is a reason operators are called "Quiet Professionals." They realize the futility in tooting their own horns.

***Please excuse the length of my post.
I'm currently in a pissing contest at work with men similar to the ones I described above.

Anyone know a good therapist? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/rolleyes.gif

[Scout]

Kiva,

>What the military needs is people with heart >that do not care about the perks, who join >to serve, period.

I agee with what you're saying, Kiva, the military DOES need more warriors. However, because of the nature of our society, if we only accepted professionals, we probably couldn't keep one division filled, let alone an Army. We need all those people who sign up for one hitch for the eduction, the benefits, etc. First, some of those will find they love it and will become professionals. Second, they fill the ranks, usually of the CS and CSS positions--allowing warriors to hold combat roles. Finally, in the event of a major crisis--say an actually war breaking out, it gives the military a pool of people with prior military service to call on if we had to reinstate a draft. So, unfortunately, those who join just for the benes are needed as much as the professionals.

Good luck on finding an MOS you like.

Scout

[Kiva]

Scout,

You're right. But, people like my cousin for example...

He was fat, so he enlisted to LOOSE WEIGHT and college money. He couldn't adjust to Army life, he gained his weight back on purpose (and he did something else I don't know what it was though) and they kicked him out. He didn't get a dishonorable discharge either, so he didn't care. It's a sad thing that the Army needs individuals that will give up at the drop of a hat. Imagine having someone like that next to yourself in a wartime situation.

Kiva

[Scout]

::looks sick:: and some of us have to fight just to be accepted into the army. . . .

[Kiva]

Very true...

Right now my problem is that damn ASVAB, I have to go take it again. I downloaded the handy Military Occupational Classification and Strucure pamphlet (the big book at MEPS with all of the MOSs, qualifications etc). From this, I found out everything I need for the MOSs that I want (a plus). My ST score is not high enough for two of the MOSs that I have in mind... Back to MEPS on Thursday. I'm not worried at all, I'll do better this time. <G>

Kiva

[Matt_2001]

tru dat scout

i'm currently in a fight to get a job i want. i failed both color blindness tests BUT i passed them perfect by a pvt eye doctor so now i'm having to fight wit the ppl at MEPS to get me back down there to sight. right now the best thing they can offer to me is a 71D (legal specialist). i can be perfectly happy wit that. just the prestige of serving my country and being a soldier gives me kicks, paper work out the ass or no paper work. i really had my heart set on something else but now i have to fight to get it.
btw... Hey Hazen, its me matt, the one who would email u for awhile, still aint got jack.

[nightinsertion]

Falcon,

You'll know when you get an ass chewin from one of these guys. Look around at some of their attacks(they'd scare pirates into ninnies) If you wanna ask questions here, youve gotta have the thick skin to hang around. Watch out for Jeff, Tack, and Shaft, they're some of the most dangerous http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/eek.gif
Seriously though they're all cool with great advice. You just gotta watch the way you state what these men have risked their lives for, not to be taken lightly.

[Falcon]

Points well taken. The only reason I look at the service as a possible training tool right now is because I don't know until I actually join to serve if military life will fit me. Rather......if I will fit military life. I do want to serve, but if I am unfit for the service arena I don't want to waste their time or mine. If I found service life half way decent to my standards (everyone has different standards) I would consider making it a career.
Also, the reason I gave you my "resume" was to clue you all in of where I'm coming from, not brag. Don't get me wrong I love my country....I would die for it in a blink of an eye......but I DO NOT love or trust the government. I suppose to all of you that sounds like a oxymoron. If you think about it....some of you may feel the same. I want to participate in the protection and safe-guarding of my country and its citizens. I DO NOT want to become a pawn of the gov's evil doings. I am not expendable....nor would be the soldiers I'd serve with.
I was raised poor....so the extra "beneies" would be a plus.....but I would not base my entire decision on wether to join or not join on just what I could get out of the deal. That would not be fair.

[Falcon]

Points well taken. The only reason I look at the service as a possible training tool right now is because I don't know until I actually join to serve if military life will fit me. Rather......if I will fit military life. I do want to serve, but if I am unfit for the service arena I don't want to waste their time or mine. If I found service life half way decent to my standards (everyone has different standards) I would consider making it a career.
Also, the reason I gave you my "resume" was to clue you all in of where I'm coming from, not brag. Don't get me wrong idea I love my country....I would die for it in a blink of an eye......but I DO NOT love or trust the "government". I suppose to all of you that sounds like a oxymoron. If you think about it....some of you may feel the same?? Doing the job to the best of my capabilities and doing my part would be enough reward for me (I believe some of you genuinly feel the same) I want to participate in the protection and safe-guarding of my country and its citizens. I DO NOT want to become a pawn of the gov's evil doings. I am not expendable....nor would be the soldiers I'd be serving with. I would though gladly give my life to save another's!

I was raised poor....so the extra "beneies" would be an appreciated plus.....but I would not base my entire decision on wether to join or not join on just what I could get out of the deal. That would not be fair. It would be the wrong reason to sign up.

[Whatever]

Falcon:

1. Your first enlistment will not be fun and you probably won't like alot of it.

2. Even if you go in with a Ranger contract (which is as high speed a deal as you can get as an enlistee) you WILL be the butt boy, the toliet scrubber and the most expendable member of the fire team.

3. Tack and MP18D summed it up.

a. Do the research.

b. See if you qualify to enlist

c. You will need a very thick skin to suceed in any SOF unit.

Mike W

DOL

P.S.

MP18D: did you get squared away with the info you needed?

[RKW]

About #2 of Whatever's post:

Its kinda the difference of what someone emphasizes when they tell you what its like. Heres a real scenario:

My recruiter: "You will spend the first couple years training and learning valuable team skills."

Guy I know in the unit: "Well, you're gonna be the Sergeant's bitch for a couple years, you'll get to run errands and clean stuff."

I think he was saying it nice.

RKW

[This message has been edited by RKW (edited 10-10-2000).]

[RKW]

double post, deleted

[This message has been edited by RKW (edited 10-10-2000).]

[Ted]

Which unit are you talking about when you quote "guy I know in unit"?

[This message has been edited by Ted (edited 10-10-2000).]

[Ranger002]

Falcon,
Take Heed...You are getting some really good advice here. Remember you are trying to join an exclusive club and you have to apy your dues.By looking at your background it looks like you might be able to hack it.That is if you are realistic about your prospects.It is really simple to become one of us. You only need one rule. You don't quit no matter what. If you don't die or get really hurt and you don't quit you will make it.
William Hazen

[RAT]

I am not expendable....

In the service WE ALL ARE!!!! Don't ever forget that.

This is a mean business. The real world is easy. In the real world your ass is not on the line 24/7.

RAT OUT!!!

[RKW]

Ted,
194th Inf Det (Abn)(LRS), my local guard unit.

RKW

[LRSC Grunt]

In regards to being expendable.

I remember my first field problem as a cherry. We were just gased by the opfor and didnt have anything to signal us the "all clear". My plt sgt calls my team leader over to him. I heard a slight muffled conversation. Team leader walks up to me. "Pvt. Gorman.......give me your weapon."(big mistake http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/eek.gif )"Now break the seal of your mask and take two deep breaths!"