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wcollar
16 October 2000, 11:29
Elite Army Soldiers Denied Medals

Some in Special Forces won’t receive Bronze Star for service during NATO airstrikes on Yugoslavia

By Jon R. Anderson, Stars and Stripes

The Air Force F-117 pilot who was shot down over Yugoslavia during last year’s NATO air campaign received a Bronze Star for evading enemy capture on the ground. The lead pilot sent in to rescue him got a Silver Star out of the mission. Air Force crewmembers on the same flight pinned on the coveted Air Medal for their bravery.

But the 14 Army Special Forces soldiers who fanned out on the ground providing a protective perimeter while the downed aviator was retrieved apparently will get nothing for their efforts. In fact, dozens of elite Special Forces soldiers, who performed dangerous and classified missions along Albania’s rugged border with Kosovo and inside Yugoslavia itself during the 78-day air blitz, have been turned down for Bronze Star and Army Air Medals.

Some 26 Bronze Star and 20 Army Air Medals nominations have been denied, according to Lt. Col. Mike Grant, a personnel manager at the Special Operations Command in Europe.

The Bronze Star is the nation’s fourth highest combat award and was established for ground troops facing hostile forces. Its counterpart, the Air Medal, was designed for aircrews and troops braving similar dangers in flight. While the Navy and Air Force combined to hand out hundreds of the awards for last year’s air campaign — including dozens of Bronze Stars going to servicemembers who served behind desks and far from the combat zone — to date the Army has not awarded a single one.

Because the Army spent most of the air campaign on the sidelines with the bulk of its forces never seeing combat, it’s been no surprise soldiers are seeing so few medals. But for soldiers of 1st Battalion, 10th Special Forces Group, the war was far different.

Arrayed along northern Albania’s border with Kosovo, small 12-man "A-teams" conducted missions that are still considered classified, including guiding in NATO bombers from mountaintop overlooks and coordinating with ethnic Albanian guerrillas fighting just on the other side of the border. Throughout all of this, Serbian gunners were pounding the Albanian frontier daily with mortar and artillery fire.

Meanwhile, 14 Special Forces troops were sent into Yugoslavia twice aboard Air Force search-and- rescue aircraft to help pull out the downed Stealth pilot. All that, however, apparently wasn’t enough to earn the coveted medal. Army Secretary Louis Caldera is what regulations call the "approving authority" for all of the service’s top-level awards, but he gave that responsibility to a decorations board in Washington.

"The board found the award recommendations did not meet the award criteria," according to Shari Lawrence, a spokeswoman for the Army’s Personnel Command, which managed the awards board.

The criteria for awarding the Bronze Star is vague at best. According to Defense Department regulations, the medal is to be awarded for "heroic or meritorious service" to troops "engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States" or an "opposing foreign force."

The Air Medal requirements read similarly, but it is only awarded for action in the air. The Defense Department launched an inquiry earlier this year into the Air Force and Navy’s awarding of Bronze Stars to servicemembers who served far from harm’s way and determined the regulations did not require physical presence in a combat zone.

That may give the Special Forces soldiers even more pause.

"We felt like the criteria was met, but PERSCOM interpreted the criteria differently," said Grant from Europe’s Special Operations Command in Stuttgart, Germany.

While some in the Army may find the situation hard to take, the Air Force is preparing another awards board of its own to convene soon. In addition to the 941 Air Medals and 249 Bronze Stars the service has already awarded, according to spokesman Capt. Shane Balken, Air Force officials will consider nominations for an additional 32 Air Medals and two more Bronze Stars.

Sharky
17 October 2000, 02:04
Hmmmmmm, If I know those SF'ers, they'll probably tell louis caldera to stick those medals up his ass if he crawfishes and tries to give it to them now. Gee, Louis, I wonder why everyone is leaving the Army in a stampede? Which unit were you in again Louis?

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F.I.D.O.

Whatever
17 October 2000, 04:49
That's the difference between being an operator on the Ground and a commissioned Air Weenie.

Agree with Sharky-if the Medal Pimps are going to be at the dance, the team guys won't be on the dance card.

msg-84
17 October 2000, 12:04
My Opinion: Medals are for performing above and beyond what is expected of you (e.g. engaging and defeating a numerically superior force).

The Air Force must not expect much from its people. They make heroes out of EVERYBODY who is even remotely connected with a live operation. I remember reading that they gave a Bronze Star to a radio operator who stood a watch in St Louis while B2s from his base flew missions to Bosnia.

I think that Air Force Awards should have to have an asterix (*) next to them to denote which service presented the award - that way these guys don't get confused with real heroes.

Daredevil
17 October 2000, 12:17
"The Air Force must not expect much from its people. They make heroes out of EVERYBODY who is even remotely connected with a live operation. I remember reading that they gave a Bronze Star to a radio operator who stood a watch in St Louis while B2s from his base flew missions to Bosnia.

I think that Air Force Awards should have to have an asterix (*) next to them to denote which service presented the award - that way these guys don't get confused with real heroes."

I got an idea, why don't you find PJ Sgt Tim Wilkinson and tell him that the Air Force will award anybody? See how that goes over.

msg-84
17 October 2000, 12:43
The Army put him up for his award. How does he change the fact that the Air Force cheapens the value of medals awarded for valor by giving them to EVERYBODY - even if they never came close to being shot at...

I still contend that the vast majority of the 250+ Bronze Stars that where awarded are not worth a bucket of warm piss...

Your move dickhead... lets see you defend those 250+ medals.

Daredevil
17 October 2000, 13:02
Dickhead? Awwww, that hurts my feelings.

Bronze Stars are awarded for meritorious service. Some Bronze Stars are awarded just for acknowledging you did a good job at your command, such as the one B.G. Burkitt got for his Army service in Vietnam, despite the fact that he didn't see combat. In short, the Bronze Star doesn't necessarily have to be a combat decoration. This was done by the Army, not the Air Force, in Vietnam for a self-descibed REMF. Do you think that cheapens things?

You can piss and moan about the Air Force all you want but the fact is they're trying to take care of their people. Decorations help get promotions. If someone needs to be critisized here it's the Army for not looking out for their guys there. Not the Air Force.

Now, why don't you go along and see if Jerry Petersen has a ready-made reply for you on his little SCARS website that you can copy and paste on here. I'd also suggest you try to come up with something a little more original than dickhead.

0802
17 October 2000, 13:50
That is one of the problems with today’s military, everyone MUST get a medal, even if they are just doing their job. Ever had to come back from FEX had to do the write ups for the awards? It plan sucks having to write the citations for people that were just doing their job. The system today cheapens meaning of the awards. The way it they handed out today, as long as you can do your job and don't get in trouble you get a medal. Look at the flag raisers at Mount Suribachi, most service members today with less risk to their lives have more awards than those Marines and Sailor.

msg-84
17 October 2000, 14:20
The Bronze Star is supposed to be awarded for
meritorious or heroic actions against an armed and determined enemy. Most of these people made no contact with the enemy - they flat out do not rate.

Furthermore, you prove my point pertaining to how the Air Force cheapens the value of combat awards by explaining that these guys need decorations to get premotions - so they HAVE to get these awards - who cares if they earn them. If making someone into a phoney hero is the way the Air Force takes care of its people, then I will stick with being a Marine any day.

In the Army or Marine Corps you get at most a CIB or Combat Action Ribbon resectively for doing you job in combat. Medals are supposed to be for people who go beyond merely doing thier job.

And I still stand by my idea that these guys should have some type of mark to denote that they recieved the awards as part of a ticket punching process, and not for any exceptional bravery in the face of an enemy.

I have no idea who Jerry Petersen is, and I am not going to waste any time chasing your red herrings.

Final note: In my opinion, the silly and illogical arguments that you make in defense of a ticket punching process that dishonors so many real heros and veterens makes you a dickhead - I don't care if that term offends you or not - its just what you are.

[This message has been edited by msg-84 (edited 10-17-2000).]

Daredevil
17 October 2000, 14:33
I had you confused with some other argumentative ass who is a Petersen worshipper. My fault.

I wasn't defending them. I was merely pointing out that it happens and not just in the Air Force. I was also pointing that not all Air Force personnel who get Medals get them for no reason.

Your personal opinion of me is somewhat irrelevant. I'll consider the source and the speakers apparent maturity level. Thanks for the critisism though.

WS-G
17 October 2000, 15:20
msg-84:
I can see your point here... And I still stand by my idea that these guys should have some type of mark to denote that they recieved the awards as part of a ticket punching process, and not for any exceptional bravery in the face of an enemy....however I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that the Bronze Star Medal has come in two distinct flavors for years: With "V" Device, denoting valor. Without, denoting meritorious service.

I'm quite certain the recipients of whom you speak have not been awarded the "V" Device — the late Admiral Boorda's demise comes to mind WRT this very issue.

jeff
17 October 2000, 15:27
As one of the would-be recipients of the air medal(without "V", which the CCT&PJs sitting right across from me recieved)for rescueing the F-16CJ pilot on May 2 we've been screwed by the Army. Your right in that we don't do what we do for medals. Is what we did above the call of duty, hell no. I sat strip alert for years in Turkey, but the call never came. We had missiles fired at us, in fact we saw one out of the tailgate, and took some small arms fire but for the most part we sat quietly in back while the pilots did their pilot stuff(I love AFSOC). If the call came to get off, get the guy and fight it out with the bad guys we would have done so and aquitted ourselves in the tradition of special forces, but we didn't contrary to the article.
I think it was worthy of an Air Medal probably not a "V", nothing very valorous about sitting there getting shot at.
My guys deserve the ribbon, if it helps them get promoted even better.
Every chance we get we badger our command about these medals, hell we wrote our own awards, and we follow-up on them weekly. We've been told "they're at SOCEUR", "they're at PERSCOM", "they're at DA", etc....its bullshit.
The problem lies with so many ridiculous awards(some in my unit also)flooding the system that my teams became one of the many, nothing special just some stack of awards that some clerk doesn't feel like reading so he reads the top one and no-gos the whole pile.
The F-117 pilots mother wrote us a letter, that letter means more than any award they'll ever give me. He also sent a 10lb bag of pistacios, cool guy.
I've droned on too long, sorry.
Jeff

[This message has been edited by jeff (edited 10-17-2000).]

Daredevil
17 October 2000, 15:27
William, That's the point I was trying to make when I brought up Burkitt's Bronze Star. Apparently I did a bad job of it. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Daredevil (edited 10-17-2000).]

msg-84
17 October 2000, 17:19
Originally posted by William M Salter:
[
however I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that the Bronze Star Medal has come in two distinct flavors for years: With "V" Device, denoting valor. Without, denoting meritorious service.

I'm quite certain the recipients of whom you speak have not been awarded the "V" Device - the late Admiral Boorda's demise comes to mind WRT this very issue.


You are correct about the V device, and I am aware of its distinction on a medal. However I still do not think that they rate the Bronze Star (without V). They are basically getting this medal just for being there, and I am not trying to take away any honor due them for having been there, but at the current rate you would get a Bronze Star handed to you along with a CIB or CAR - and it loses its meaning.

Admiral Boorda was never awarded a BS, he attached the unearned V to a Navy Commendation Medal which he had earned for non-combat related service. He actually got busted because someone noticed the discrepency of having a Combat V on the NCM ribbon and the absence of a CAR.

SOTICgrad
17 October 2000, 20:00
I agree with the general consensus about most of these things not being earned. Hell..let's not forget about our hero scouts in Macedonia, 6 medals for surrendering I believe. What about Somalia...based on this current award policy every swinging dick on the ground there should have gotten Silver stars and anyone back at camp at least a bronze. God forbid we go back to Vietnam or farther. I know a gentleman who has a bonafide triple CIB, finished up with SOG in Vietnam. He only has 12 (or 15 not sure) ribbons. It truly has cheapened the earned awards.

However, it's unfortunately the way it is. It may or may not change. I'm sure if we get into a protracted conflict it will change back, but until then it's echelons above most of us. That and the reg is ambiguous. For everyone's edification it reads:

3. Criteria: a. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the
military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious
achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy
of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or
while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in
which the United States is not a belligerent party.

b. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of
lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

c. Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The required achievement
or service while of lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have
been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

msg-84
20 October 2000, 10:46
A quote from the URL listed above:

"The changing nature of warfare, as well as the Air Force's evolution into an expeditionary aerospace force, makes geographic location of combat forces a secondary concern ..." - Secretary of the Air Force Whit Peters.

Bullshit!

Geographic location still matters - If your position is not within range of an enemy, then you are not in combat...
regardless of who you are supporting. And if you're not in combat, then you don't rate combat awards.

With this law, Congress has tried to prevent men like Peters from createing phoney heroes, but I'll bet his lawyers will find a way around the law...

[This message has been edited by msg-84 (edited 10-20-2000).]