Question

[otaku]

I had a friend who can do dead-pull (grab a bar and pull himself up to head level?) with one hand. My question is; would someone of his own weight class be able to use armbar effectively against him and people with his type of ability? :confused:

[fish78]

Forget the arm bar...poke his eyes and then axehand the side of his neck...he will go down , just like the rest.

[otaku]

I would agree. I think any kind of attack to crotch, groin, temple, eye, nose, ear, spinal cord, vertebra, etc would be very very effective againest almost anybody. But I asked the question because I am interested in knowing how effective are armbars in certain situations.

[Mac679]

depends on the degree of leverage the person applying the armbar has and your friend's pain threshold and joint flexibility; keep in mind it ain't too hard to snap an elbow with an arm bar...

[otaku]

If his one hand grabs the other, is it possible to lift the arm being armbarred as well as the person applying the armbar?

I have seen armbar at work often enough, so I know it is very effective in many situations. I also know the person applying the armbar do a lot of work using their legs.

I guess what I am asking is would armbar work against someone with a strong elbow joint and a firm arm.

[fish78]

In general, submission or pain compliance only works after you have softened the oponent up with "atemi" or strikes...same goes for throws and all the fancy stuff you see in movies.

[Daredevil]

It can depend on many different things. If he's able to use both of his arms in defending against the armbar, using both to pull against it, then he could likely get out of it.

A good practitioner uses his whole body in applying an armbar. Good technique can take the test of strength out of the equation.

Mac is right about joint flexibility. At a recent tournament I saw a guy in an armbar and his arm was bent very far back, like he was double jointed, and he didn't submit. The judges were looking at his coach like he was crazy for letting it continue. His opponent managed to get him in the armbar on two seperate occasions, and he really couldn't bring his hips up any further. The guys arm was just able to go that way. He left it like that till he was able to wriggle his way out.

After those two attempts, his opponent finally had to start trying other courses of action.

[Daredevil]

Originally posted by fish78
In general, submission or pain compliance only works after you have softened the oponent up with "atemi" or strikes...same goes for throws and all the fancy stuff you see in movies.

Beg to differ Fish, I've seen quite a few fights end quick, fast, and in a hurry with some choke holds or locks.

[otaku]

True, there are ground, choke, hold, or lock experts that specializes in closing in the range at the right moments and do their work at one go. Also some throws are more effective then they seems.

So the answer is it is possible for people like him to lift a opponent using an armbar without doing too much damage to his elbow, and possibly counter-attack by dropping the opponent?

[fish78]

What kind of fight? Rules? Were the combatants trained? Hell I have seen fights end quick with a sucker punch, but I damned sure don't depend on it for my protection. Not to rag on you, but most of the MA have some sort of sport purpose...that is not for me...I live in a World where there are no rules. It is" Kill or get Killed"

[otaku]

Controlled fights with some rules and trained combatants; not on the street or in the real world. My apologies for not making it clear.

[Daredevil]

I still maintain that a well trained shootfighter or Sambo practioner can come in very quickly and apply a lock or devestating submission hold even in real world situations.

[otaku]

True, but it is also true that it takes quite a long time to produce a decent fight that can deal with just a few unarmed/lightly-armed targets. It is still easier and more efficient to just grab something and find mates for backup, or attack the ¡§dirty¡¨ weak points that would almost always guarantee to work. I think that was fish¡¦s point. Anyway, thanks for the advice on armbar.

So it is possible for people like him to lift an opponent while being armbarred?

[Ranger002]

Originally posted by otaku
True, but it is also true that it takes quite a long time to produce a decent fight that can deal with just a few unarmed/lightly-armed targets. It is still easier and more efficient to just grab something and find mates for backup, or attack the ¡§dirty¡¨ weak points that would almost always guarantee to work. I think that was fish¡¦s point. Anyway, thanks for the advice on armbar.

So it is possible for people like him to lift an opponent while being armbarred?

So uuuuhhhh.... How many fights have you been in? 'Theory never beats experiance. Go train.

William Hazen

[dragonrain]

Anybody remember Pete Williams, he's the guy that knocked Colman out with the kick and has been loosing quite a bit as of late? Anyway, Ive watched that guy get out of some wicked looking key locks, in fact most of the late 90's lions den fighters seemed to just not be bothered when there arms were hyper extended, And while I know that alot of skill goes into getting out of a hold ( hey I wrestled) It just seemed to me that some of these guys were extremly well prepaired mentaly to have thier Joints pressed beond normal limits, I always admired that out look of "you better break it, cause I aint tappin" of course thats relitive to the fight being in the ring where they can stop it as opposed to on the street where the Situation is different.


Case
DR

[otaku]

Did TKD until red belt with black line.
Been in many sparring and forced to have just a few fights.
Found TKD used only once; non-TKD moves were used to end the rest.
Seen many K-1, Pride, etc from Japan and Asia.
Know I am clueless, foolish, theoretical, and full of it.

Question:
Can person A successfully apply an armbar to person B?

Conditions:
-Not in real fight.
-Person A weights the same as person B.
-Person B has extremely strong arm and joints.
-Person B can do dead-pull (grab a bar and pull himself up to head level?) with one hand.

Did I ask this question in the wrong place? If so, I apologize.

[Abnbravo4]

Yes. I am 6ft 230 and been doing BBJ for 8 years....I have been put into an armbar, and made to tap by persons 5'6 170 and lower. I consider myself to have strong arms and high pain tolerance, but it is a position of leverage not strengh.

[otaku]

Can you do dead-pull (grab a bar and pull himself up to head level?) with one hand? Thx

[Abnbravo4]

No but i can sqeeze your f**king head until it pops like a tomato.

So your judging all this on a one handed pull up.....once again Ill say it so you will understand " ITS ABOUT LEVERAGE NOT STRENGH"

[otaku]

Thankyou everyone for taking your time to answer my stupid question.