Combat Missions

[chelldon]

I am sending out a challenge. I work for a new TV show called Combat Missions. Put together a 4 man team and compete in military missions that will test your physical ability, tactical strength, and mental discipline. We are looking for America's Elite. If your up to the challenge go to www.combatmissions.com (http://www.combatmissions.com) and fill out the application.

[The Extreme]

Ahhhhh... You have got to be kidding me! This is absolutely the worst idea I have ever seen! The

As an interrogator in the Army with a degree in journalism, I have to say this is the last area of interest the big, bad media needs to stick its ugly, shameful cameras into.

I have only seen your websites premise of the show and I already know everything about it. It will use dramatic, over-exaggerated explosions and gunfire to draw in the viewers.. It will use seens showing guys sneaking around in the dark. Then it will use a mix of dramatic music and misconstrued soundbites from the teams to really juice up the competitiveness. Then dozens of whacky, semi-realistic staged events will decide a winning team, which was probably predetermined by a sampling poll of the viewers to predict the most controversial/popular.

Special Operations is not something you build a game show around. I'm sure these men would love to have $250,000. Who wouldn't? I actually think they would love the competition between services and units. Who wouldn't? And, some might even enjoy the popularity from the exposure. I wouldn't. But to package Special Operations forces up into a marketable demon of the media would only lower the dignity and honor these soldiers and officers have earned through blood, sweat, tears, dedication, and sacrifice. They are Quiet Professionals with a great deal of PRIDE. You producers, directors, cameramen, movers, shakers, can only dream of that level of sacrifice and pride. Your only goals are to make great, incomprehensible sums of money pulling the wool over the average viewers eyes by feeding him this mega-media horseshit.

These men volunteer for Special Operations, SWAT, Secret Service, FBI, or whatever for the challenge and the honor. Not for the glamour. And definately not for the money. They have a sense of self-worth from being the best of the best that you cannot/will not understand. That is why you will try to produce this show. And you will search for volunteers holding the prize money in their faces with the lights on and the cameras rolling...

And what you will get is a biggg..... FUCK YOU, MOVIEMAN!!

[Jeff Rambo]

Are there any PR kits available yet? Interested in the "finer" points of things.

If so, jeff.rambo@la.sourcerunner.com

or

Studio 6b Broadcasting, Inc.
Attn: J. Rambo - SourceRunner News & Media
1800 South Robertson Blvd. Suite #424
Los Angeles, CA 90035

I would e-mail you this, but my smtp server is down for the weekend.

------------------
Sincerely,
Jeff A. Rambo
NBTNDT
------------------
Disrespect cannot be commanded, it must be earned.

[Sharky]

I'm with Extreme on this one. Take your show and shove it.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[DFC5343]

Sign me up for opfor...ohh yeah!

[JY]

Ah..challenge this http://www.animatedgif.net/beavisbutthead/mooning_bart_e0.gif



[This message has been edited by JY (edited 12-22-2000).]

[justagrunt]

IS that you John Wayne, or is it me...
http://www.famousfoto.com/B461.JPG

------------------
Can I get a "HooAh" from the Congregation?!?!

[RogueExec]

chelldon, you're not likely to find takers here. Head for the Soldier of Fortune and Merc sites. This type of publicity is precisely the thing that SpecOps doesn't need, after the media frenzy over SEALs. Tangoes watch TV too, ya know.

[FLTCREW1]

I'm with Sharky and JY (and probably all the other BTDT's)

------------------
NSDQ

[RAT]

We are looking for America's Elite. If your up to the challenge...

I was part of America's Elite... I did take the challenge. I don't need you to show me how tough I was. Many of us have had friends who have lost there lives. They gave the ultimate sacrifice. I will not tarnish their memory by making our lives a FUCKING GAME SHOW...


SOMEONE SEND THOSE FUCKERS THAT PIC OF THAT RUSSIAN GETTING HIS THROAT CUT OPEN...

Tell them that is our life...NOT entertainment.

RAT OUT!!!



[This message has been edited by RAT (edited 12-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by RAT (edited 12-22-2000).]

[Tracy]

Call Me Crazy...

How about we ask the Producers to recruit ONLY SAS and SEAL operators and leave us out of this fracas?


While I'm not surprised, I thought David Russo (one of the honchos) would have the courtesy to call me back. He asked if the other producers could call me and bring me down to SoCal to advise on the creation of the show.

I told him flat out that there shouldn't be a monetary reward, and different military groups should NOT go head-to-head. I guess I flamed out on that subject.

I think we should fasten our seatbelts, 'cause the wannabes will be coming out of the woodwork...

Watch, Jared 'BEDE' Chandler will be first in line.

Hey, Jeff Rambo! You monitoring this action??

[Ranger002]

Tracy,

Agreed. Another thing to keep in mind is that the "market" for these shows is production companies that wish to break the possible strike. Since this is a "reality" based TV show there is no need to hire any "creative talent". Hence you are a fucking scab if you work on a show like this.
William Hazen
PS. Don't you worry none mista producer C. I will make it known that you are soliciting here to every union in town Some us America's Best types are in the business scumbag.

[SAPPER317]

Such a show is tasteless and in very poor character from the media/entertainment industry.

"FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A PRICE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW"

There are many that paid the ultimate price. Get lost before someone shoves that show up your ass.

Merry Christmas...
SAPPER317

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by SAPPER317:
Get lost before someone shoves that show up your ass.

Merry Christmas...
SAPPER317


And THAT'S the WAY it IS.....*best Cronkite voice*



------------------
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine"

[RUDEDAWG]

Originally posted by chelldon:
I am sending out a challenge. ...Combat Missions. We are looking for America's Elite. If your up to the challenge


I'll bet you didn't expect that response!!!! http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/tongue.gif

[justagrunt]

Originally posted by chelldon:
I am sending out a challenge.....test your physical ability, tactical strength, and mental discipline. We are looking for America's Elite. If your up to the .....

Challenge This!!!

PS: This is a sample of the qoulifications that you will get from the type of loser's that apply...
http://w3.trib.com/~dont/icons/cslogo.gif

------------------
Can I get a "HooAh" from the Congregation?!?!

[This message has been edited by justagrunt (edited 12-22-2000).]

[FutureRanger2000]

I remember the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. They were awesome and really fun too.

[DFC5343]

Originally posted by chelldon:
I am sending out a challenge. I work for a new TV show called Combat Missions. Put together a 4 man team and compete in military missions that will test your physical ability, tactical strength, and mental discipline. We are looking for America's Elite. If your up to the challenge go to <A HREF="http://www.combatmissions.com" TARGET=_blank> www.combatmissions.com (http://www.combatmissions.com</A>)[/url] and fill out the application.

Check this out producer man... www.bangedup.com/archives/chech21.mpeg (http://www.bangedup.com/archives/chech21.mpeg)
Rated R... DO NOT allow anyone with the mind of a movie producer view this.
Compliments of the U.S. Navy.

[DFC5343]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RAT:
[B] I was part of America's Elite... I did take the challenge. I don't need you to show me how
tough I was. Many of us have had friends who have lost there lives. They gave the
ultimate sacrifice. I will not tarnish their memory by making our lives a FUCKING GAME
SHOW...


SOMEONE SEND THOSE FUCKERS THAT PIC OF THAT RUSSIAN GETTING
HIS THROUGHT CUT OPEN...

Tell them that is our life...NOT entertainment.

RAT OUT!!!

Already done!

Chelldon email is ...chelldon@yahoo.com...

He gets it both ways....here and there. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by DFC5343 (edited 12-22-2000).]

[Jeff Rambo]

Yep, and still no bite.

------------------
Sincerely,
Jeff A. Rambo
NBTNDT
------------------
Disrespect cannot be commanded, it must be earned.

[bmf]

Hey is this the bandwagon? Can I get on too?

Mr. Combat Missions producer:

I challenge you to a race in a submunition field. You and Mr. Bernett can suck my bung hole. I hope you take the money you make on this and over-dose on coke.

Yours truly,
BMF
(combat missions coward)


[This message has been edited by bmf (edited 12-22-2000).]

[Paintman]

I just sent them a nice long email. I doubt they'll even read it, or they'll read it while they're dumb drunk wading in money, for laughs. Basterds.



Chris

[RAT]

DFC5343,

Thanks BRO... I owe you one...

To All of our Fallen. Semper Fi.
Merry Christmass.

RAT OUT!!!

[TACFROG]

I have a simple question for all you guys. What's the difference between this proposed competition and The Best Ranger competition I saw on ESPN a couple of weeks ago or the SWAT competitions that all the best teams compete in every year? Is it gonna be a real world Op? Obviously not, it's a competition just like the others except that this one is offering us a pretty good payday. Will it be cheesy? Maybe, maybe not. Who gives a shit? If it is, the public will see right through it and pay more attention to the actual real deal operators. Sounds like a pretty good opportunity to me, but, then again, that's just my horse shit opinion.
Take care, my friends.

[Jims]

"Will it be cheesy?... If it is, the public will see right through it and pay more attention to the actual real deal operators."

I would hope that happens.

BUT, I consider myself slightly better informed than John Q. Public and you could dupe me with a smoke grenade and a strobe light.

I don't see this thing coming out any way but bad.

If you genuinely think that way, TACFROG, sign up and ensure that what the guys have said above doesn't come to pass.

[bmf]

TACFROG:

The Ranger challenge is based of "tasks" that any Ranger is supposed to do be able to do. If you watched the show, it's basically a glorified training op that lets Rangers compete against other Rangers while doing THEIR training objectives. Many military units train against their sister units to better both of their skills. But I can say from personal experience, every time I have been "killed" during a training op- I take it deadly serious.
This T.V. program will be suck ass cheesy. They will present a smoke and mirrors look at "Holywood Combat" that further enhances the publics desensitization to combat. If you haven't seen the Chechynian video please take a look at the brutality of "modern" combat. Then tell me if you want to make a game show out of it.
Now, I know I have yet to see the show- But I am familiar with the producers from their other works and I'm sure there will be plenty of added cheese drama.

Just the opinion of an AD squid.

[Ranger002]

TacFrog,

Big differance between the two. One is for money the other for pride. One tests real world skills the other "simulates" combat.I could go on and on but you have already heard it. Tell a Ranger you won the best Ranger competition and most members of the communtiy will have the greatest respect for your soldiering skills ( it is NOT easy to win much less compete) Tell a member of the public and most will say... What's the best Ranger Competition :-) Tell a member of the community that you won 250k by conquering objective "Danger Mountain" with your four man team and you WILL get laughed off the planet and in a few fist fights with those who have survived the real deal. Tell a civvie you won and they will more than likely go cool! So tell me Ranger Man IS THAT WHAT REAL COMBAT MISSIONS ARE LIKE? So...my friend TacFrog... the choice is obvious.
William Hazen
PS. I will personally do everything within the limits of the law to make sure that this show never makes it on the air.

[RAT]

What's the difference between this proposed competition and The Best Ranger competition I saw on ESPN a couple of weeks ago or the SWAT competitions that all the best teams compete in every year?

1) As William said: it is about pride and the Worriers skills. It is an Honor to compete... Like the olympic's... You win the gold... You do not win Millions of dollars.

2) It is administered by fellow Rangers/SWAT/Other Spec Op personal...Not someone who is going to make money off you or I should say out for profit.

It's a competition just like the others except that this one is offering us a pretty good payday.

LIKE I HAVE SAID EVERY TIME TO YOU WANNABES.... YOU DO NOT DO IT FOR THE MONEY You do it for yourself, your team, your unit.

Who gives a shit?

I DO

the public will see right through it and pay more attention to the actual real deal operators. Sounds like a pretty good opportunity to me

Silent professionals. What we have all done this and have friends and family still doing operations. These men are at the POINT OF THE SPEAR. It is a real deadly game no need to make it any more difficult for them.

I understand the fascination with viewing this material. Like I said it is not for public viewing like WWF or NFL today.

I WILL NOT STAND FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE A SPECTACLE OUT OF MY FELLOW WORRIERS...We all have given up too much...

What I would go for: The producers go and get 4 man teams of wannabes and let them be trained by a BTDT and then see who's tactic's are better and the Cadre get the 250,000 per Instructor. I'll go for that.

RAT OUT!!!

[LRSC Grunt]

This is how I see it. I have spent the past four years training for something that never happened. Something that is WORTHLESS in the civilian sector. No one cares if I know how to clear a room, assist in planning an op order, shoot expert, hump a ruck, or float a keg... I see this as an oppertunity to make honest money.

Flame me all you want...I dont give a rats ass what other people think of me.

[tactical]

Wow, sounds like a cross between Jerry Springer and the A Team TV Show or roughly more crap for inbreeds!

[The Bug]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TACFROG:
[B]I have a simple question for all you guys. What's the difference between this proposed competition and The Best Ranger competition I saw on ESPN a couple of weeks


The difference is The Best Ranger Comp. would exist with or with out the media. ESPN sticks their nose where it doesn't belong. This other stupid event is made just for the media. Some of the things that go on in the special ops. community are none of the buisness of the American public. I mean after all what the American public does not know, is what makes them the American public.



[This message has been edited by The Bug (edited 12-24-2000).]

[RAT]

LSRC,
This is how I see it. I have spent the past four years training for something that
never happened. Something that is WORTHLESS in the civilian sector. No one cares if I
know how to clear a room, assist in planning an op order, shoot expert, hump a ruck, or
float a keg... I see this as an opportunity to make honest money.

Flame me all you want...I dont give a rats ass what other people think of me.

It just dawned on me... Here is a simile for you: TEACHERS

Grunt: 4 Yrs infantry
Teacher: 4 Yrs College

Grunt: 4 Yrs Humping a ruck, room clearing, shooting, ect...
Teacher: Learning how to teach, English, Math, Spelling (which I suck at)Language,ect...

Grunt:Float a keg
TeacherFloat a keg

Both could use the money. I don't know if you have noticed but teachers don't make a
whole lot of money either. So do you think that teachers are WORTHLESS?

If they had a game show: We'll call it get a TEXAS A&M DEGREE. In :30 if you can pass these subject's and some Corps courses, you get a degree from TEXAS A&M. You could walk around with that sheep skin, What would people think of you?????

You think they would say... Grunt was a pretty smart dude he won that TEXAS A&M Degree show. I want to make him the CEO of my Public Company....

Or would it be: Grunt won that Degree show(Roll eyes).I want to make THAT AGGIE CEO..HAHAHAHA. It would be a legit Degree but it would cheapen the school and the Degree as a whole. I see this happening to SOF if this
show gets off the ground. And the people who participate help bring down the community.

MY .01
Merry Christmas

RAT OUT!!!

[JY]

I can't speak for all and don't intend to. Each has to make up his own mind as to what is honorable and what is not. I see 4 years posted, and I see that some feel it was all wasted. Service to your country is never wasted, if you make it through without seeing your friends being killed you're blessed and if you never have to take a life you are doubly blessed. Well I've over 30 years of service to my country and never been blessed, I for one will not prostitute myself or service or defame those we lost for the pleasure of the do nothings, the leeches, who get their excitement, their only real life by watching others. Let them watch the Berengers, the phoney Rambo's(not you Jeff the other one)to get their laughs and excitement. And I will not help in adding more money to the bloated "show business" crowds who's only intent is to make more money for themselves while preaching their left wing trash and trying to destroy the basis of our country...let's make more cash for the Rosies the Janes and other "beautiful" people.

Seems I've heard of this before, the rich and "beautiful" people watching soldiers for entertainment...oh yeah Rome, it fell. These are the same people who back sending us to great UN wipe noses and powder butts operations. If you want to sell out to their god... MONEY go ahead those of us who don't will understand...clearly.

I'm not "flamming" anyone, those who know me also know I never engage in such. These are my feelings on the subject, you have to decide for youself what is honorable. This has been my life, I'm not a trained animal for their pleasure.

To all my brothers I wish you Happy Holidays and a New Years filled with family and peace...Jim

[Paintman]

I got a reply to my email. The biggest load of bull I've heard in a while. I'll post it after Christmas.

Merry Xmas.

Chris

[Sharky]

JY, that was beautifully put and expressed my own feelings perfectly, thanks bro.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[Ranger002]

LRSCGrunt,

You have just exhibited the sole reason why shows like this make it on the air. There will always be folks like you that place cash in front of character. So what you're telling me is the reason you swore the oath was for the money? Well you deserve to have your ass turned into ash!
William Hazen

[Sharky]

I'm just gonna make a wildass guess here but having talked to grunt a few times and thinking about the many posts I've seen him put up on this board, I think he was probably drunk or having a bad day or both when he posted that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong grunt, but that just don't sound like you at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I would honestly be disappointed if that was really how you felt.

P.S. I'm not implying that you do or should give a damn about what I think. Hope it didn't come across that way.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[This message has been edited by Sharky (edited 12-25-2000).]

[RAT]

TACFROG,
I appologies yuo'er not a WANNABE I 'm a little quick on the draw somtimes.

GRUNT,
I understand about the money. I don't know anyone who can't use another 250,000.

I just don't want this to be some side show. Like "Who wants to marry a millionaire". I don't think you want to be the next Darva Congier(sp)

Again, just my .02

Happy Hoildays

RAT OUT!!!

[RifleMaster]

Jim,

Well put! You said it all!

Keep Holding'em Hard!

Carl

[bmf]

Negative press is still free press. The more we debate the show, the more people speak out against it, the more people will become intrigued and tune in. It's the "car crash" syndrome (people just have to look).
I say fuck 'em and turn the piece of shit t.v. off and go for a run.

[Tracy]

Here's an interesting thought:

Mr. Burnett, the idea man and producer of Combat Missions, is a foreigner.

Does anyone think it a little strange or inappropriate for a foreign national to sponsor any competition between Elite American Law Enforcement and Military Units?

It's a win-win situation all around for him. If the show goes well, he's laughing all the way to bank. If the show makes a laughing stock of American Units, he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Remember, the show will be broadcast world-wide.

Here's another interesting thought:

The Best Ranger Competition was brought up as another competetion 'show' just like Combat Missions.

Well, I can't speak for other Infantry units, but the XVIII Airborne Corps used to have a proficiency test called Infantry Stakes. When the SQT Testing came into being, in 1976-77, it replaced Infantry Stakes. This is almost the same time that Fort Benning (Home of the Infantry) started the Best Ranger Competition.

Infantry Stakes got its name from the numbered stakes that were pounded into the ground in Training Area J. The goal was for Infantry Squads to navigate tactically to each stake in sequence. Once they arrived at a stake, an evaluator(s) had the squad perform a task. There's approximately 250 individual, buddy-team, fire-team and squad level tasks. There were usually 30-50 stakes; and the squads had no prior knowledge of what to expect. Generally speaking, a squad could EXPECT to do all squad-level tasks; and the remaining stakes were randomly-chosen tasks.

The Best Ranger Competition is nothing more than continuing the tradition of Infantry Stakes. If you examine the skills tested, you'll see that every one of them has an SQT Task Number; certified by the School of the Infantry.

It used to be that the winning buddy-team got an Army Commendation Medal and the Ranger Association gave them a pair of Match-Grade M1911A1 .45 ACP pistols.

XVIII Airborne Corps ran the Expert Infantryman's Badge Program the same way as Infantry Stakes; except ALL of the stakes were individual tasks. There were 103 tasks to perform in 1976; so the stakes were placed within eyesight of each other to better organize and control things. The number of task vary from year-to-year because doctrine, skills and hardware constantly change. I know there were a 103 tasks in 1976 because that's when I got my EIB.

Our entire platoon (1/B/1/505 PIR) went to EIB testing and had the highest completion rate in the 82d Airborne Division: 95%. Thank You, LTC 'Iron' Mike Plummer. Back then, earning the EIB was an automatic promotion up to E-4; that's how I got PFC after 8 months time-in-service.


So, what are the differences?

1. Best Ranger Competition is an outgrowth of a training and evaluation system used by the XVII Airborne Corps 30 years ago. Combat Missions is an attempt to make money and garner ratings.

2. Every task performed in the Best Ranger Competition is a Light Infantry Skill for individuals or buddy teams. These are certified by the Infantry School.

Combat Missions will deliberately chose the hardest tasks possible; which may, or may not, have any relevence to fire team skills. The hardest tasks will be chosen for their 'glamour' when shown on national television. Anything to make it interesting and hold viewers attention is Combat Missions primary goal. How riveting is it to watch a squad dig in a defensive position, or fill out range cards, do a battle hand-off to a relieving squad and establish an anti-armor ambush? At night?

3. The Best Ranger Competition is an event SANCTIONED BY THE US ARMY. ESPN has nothing to do with it. ESPN is just like any other TV station: they're ratings whores who constantly chase down anything that looks like it will hold viewers attention.

4. The Best Ranger Competiton is about Soldiers who put out extra effort during their regular duty day to prepare; and use their own resources to go to Fort Benning. Sometimes their chain of command helps them; sometimes they don't. Most competitors only get permissive TDY to go down to Benning; no other special favors, etc.

The only way Combat Missions can get any serious interset is to offer a quarter-million dollars to the winning team. Take away the money, and all you'll see is wannabes.


Navy SEALs do the same thing with their 12-18 month train-up cycle when preparing for deployment. How glamorous is that? Right now, 82d Airborne Division is in a continuous train-up cycle because of commitments.

Hazen and Rambo! You getting this? Please forward to whomever in your circle of friends.

I'll stop ranting now.

[Paintman]

This is the reply to my email:



chris,



you seem to be quite angry. i hope your email allowed you to let off some steam and maybe feel a little better. i understand your feelings. this show is controversial in nature, and bound to stir up some reactions like yours. for every letter i get like yours, i can tell you that i get another one thanking me for finally producing a TV show that will show americans how proud they should be of their military heroes.



the last thing i or any of my colleagues wish to do is spit in the faces of those brave souls who have given their lives for this country. all i can say to you that may mean something is that our intentions are to celebrate our heroes, not tarnish them.

thanks for your email.

best regards,

brian gadinsky

executive producer



Gah...

[Sharky]

Post that e-mail address.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[The ONE]

Look at this Marine I got off www.forcerecon.com: (http://www.forcerecon.com:)

Sergeant Winn, John 0311/0321/8654 86/94 MCRD San Diego 2115 Jan 1987
CAMP PENDELON CA, 1ST FORCE RECON CO. 2ND, 8TH, 5TH PLATOONS. FLASH MESSAGE!!! TO ALL FORCE RECON OPERATORS EXPERIENCE TEAM MEMBERS NEEDED TO FORM A FOUR MAN RECON TEAM TO COMPETE IN THE SURVIVAL series T.V. PROGRAM COMBAT MISSIONS COMPETITON. IF YOU ARE
WE WILL BE COMPETING AGAINST THE US SECRET SERVICE, FBI HRT TEAM, DELTA FORCE, DEA TACTICAL UNIT, GREEN BERETS, RANGERS, NAVY SEALS JUST TO NAME A FEW. CONTACT WWW.COMBATMISSIONS.COM (http://WWW.COMBATMISSIONS.COM) FOR DETAIL INFORMATION WINNERS TAKE $250,000 CALL WINN

He was FAPED out to the POOL.. This guy is a BAG.






[This message has been edited by The ONE (edited 12-29-2000).]

[Paintman]

info@combatmissions.com

[OldSFer]

Mr Chelldon,

Seeing the names of America's elite military
units associated with your game show is disgusting to me.

Companies that choose to sponsor this trash should be boycotted by the SOF community, the military as a whole, and by all veterans of the military.

Any individual who has worn the uniform of any of the elite units who chooses to participate in your game show should be shuned by the SOF community as a whole.

Having served in US Army Special Forces in Vietnam, and having seen too many pairs of jungle boots sticking out from under a poncho the idea of your show makes me want to puke.

You claim you want this show to honor the real heros. Well sir, in my estimation one thing is for sure you will not get any real heroes to play your dumb game.

The only thing you want to honor is your wallet at the expense of the men who gave their lives while serving in these elite units. Special operations is not a game.

By the way green berets are just woolen hats,
the correct name for the unit is US Army Special Forces.

OldSFer
De Oppresso Liber

JY, Well said brother.

[Ranger002]

Brothers,

I wrote to the show directly along the same lines as Old Sfer. I will post a copy of it here when I get back to the office. I highly suggest that we start an email campaign and have every one we know go to thier web site and write them an email.
William Hazen

[Ranger002]

Here is a copy of one of the emails I have sent so far.

Sir,

With all due respect to your intentions; you are doing a great disservice
to all US Special Operations Forces. Our ablity to operate effectively and
insure our own survival depends on the nature of our capabilities be kept
quiet with very little publicity. As a former member of the US Army Airborne
Rangers I implore you to use your creative talents in pursuit of another
endeavor. I want to let you know that a majority of all US. Special
Operations Forces DOES NOT support or endorse what you're doing here. Please
consider the serious ramifications of your actions.We hope you do the right
thing.
William Hazen B 2/75 Ranger 1979-1982 ODA 332 C 3/12th SFGA(R)1982-1991
Ranger Class Graduate 14-80 Supporter US ARMY RANGER ASSOCIATION

[TR]

I guess it should not be a surprise that yet another premise for a "reality based" tv show has beeen put forth. We have seen a slew of programs from "Survivor" to all the other's being ptiched our way. Now it seems someone has decided to try and tap the other end of the spectrum. Instead of mindless T&A and pointless drama labeled as tripe we know can expect mindless and scripted action...

The reason our elite military forces exsist is but for one reason-an eventual military conflict. They are there to protect this country from enemies, foreign or domestic. Not to entertain us on television or to awe or amaze us to a trendy soundtrack while we watch them on the tv blow things to pieces.

Is there a point to any of this? The very reason our country can afford to endulge such needless excesses today is that so many willing sacrificed their lives for this country.

In the end this show may well go on in some altered form, TV has a way of ignoring reality and capitalizing on it. However the trend is obvious here, the military community is against such a concept as purposed. Hopefully that will be enough to ensure the project does not see the light of day.

T.R.

[This message has been edited by TR (edited 12-30-2000).]

[Razor]

If its all the same to you, TR, can I still have my mindless T&A? Please?

[TR]

Oh all right, mindless T&A for some... none for others.

:-)


T.R.

[adhoc]

I admit I am a bit young in this business, but it seems to me some governmental organization concerned with national security would raise an eyebrow at this guy.And mabe wink at the T&A.

[Cole]

I thought Mark Burnett was in the SAS or the Para's. Sad, I would think he of all people would have the insight to respect the deeds of the Special Operations community, not pimp it off to the highest bidder...I guess he belongs in the same boat as Jared Chandler.

[Bubbler]

JY,

Let's not get to mad at the Tom Berengers or George Clooneys, the military needs good actors to portray them, and these actors in their own way provide a service and benift for the US military community. I just don't want to see John Travolta playing anymore military roles *smile!*. Travolta is best stared as a... well any other role other then military.

[javahedz]

You guys...

I bet no one asked the real important questions yet, like:

1. Do we get a cool tab to wear?

2. Can we have neat "sponsored by" patches for our BDUs? A big REI would look great where our combat patches were.

3. Do we get a free pair of Tevas and Oakleys?

4. Will we sweat? cause sweat and dirt is icky and we can't be icky if we are trying to be cool

Just wondering.....

Dan

------------------
Keep your powder dry
Go Get 'em Gear (http://www.gogetemgear.com/)

Dan

[This message has been edited by javahedz (edited 12-31-2000).]

[bubba]

Hell, I'd love to go and do some of this high-speedo stuff for the TV people only if I wasn't going to be busy preparing to go do it for real in some far away land. Does this guy actually think that some TL/CO/OIC would allow any of HIS people to go on leave for 21 consecutive days to compete in some wiz-bang made for TV Raid on Entebe? Sounds like ratings are sucking.

------------------
RLTW

[XavieN]

I wish you all the best of luck in stopping this show, I'll drop some mails to him myself.

No offence OldSfer, you got the experience and knowledge that is far superior my whole (short) life. I just thought to mention, I think it was, John L. Plaster in "SOG" who wrote SOMETHING LIKE "...a hero is somebody who doesn't know what's going on or who is to stupid to realize it."

[Zulu6]

mr. movieman,

DID you say a challenge? HELLO our daily jobs alone are challenges. why advertise. asking if anyone is up to the challenge is ahhh ahhhh whats the word.............well you know what im getting at.


------------------
Prepare to cross over................

[Zulu6]

mr. movieman,

DID you say a challenge? HELLO our daily jobs alone are challenges. why advertise. asking if anyone is up to the challenge is ahhh ahhhh whats the word.............well you know what im getting at.


------------------
Prepare to cross over................

[Zulu6]

mr. movieman,

DID you say a challenge? HELLO our daily jobs alone are challenges. why advertise. asking if anyone is up to the challenge is ahhh ahhhh whats the word.............well you know what im getting at.


------------------
Prepare to cross over................

[Sharky]

LAR, You might want to switch that mouse back to semi-auto. I think your on three round burst.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[Zulu6]

my biggest question

did you really think that you were going to get people from this arena to perform for you? those attributes are our way of life we only had to prove it once and it certainly wasnt for you.

------------------
Prepare to cross over................

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Sharky:
LAR, You might want to switch that mouse back to semi-auto. I think your on three round burst.



LMAO

[Ranger002]

Gents,

Here is a reply to my email. Anyone know this guy??? Anyone have any thoughts on the supposed "support" of this by some of our peers?


To: William@mycontracts.com
CC: Gadinsky@earthlink.net Save Address
Subject: Response to your inquiry
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:03:37 EST

Dear Mr. Hazen:

I have been tasked by the Executive Producers of Combat Missions to respond
to your recent Email expressing your concerns with the programming content of
the show. Believe me, I understand your position, as do the good people
running this program. However, I'd like you to rest easy. Before I came on
board, I took a hard look at the "Mission" programming as well as the
potential for revealing the "school solution" to tactical problems. Let me
assure you, you will not find Combat Missions a source conduit for the
education of terrorists. I am not alone in this opinion. I have personally
discussed this issue with numerous personnel from Spec Ops units (SOCOM and
others) and the unanimous conclusion was that this is an absolutely positive
PR message on behalf of America's elite military (and police) formations, not
an inadvertent or mis-intentioned transmittal of sensitive operational
informati! on serving to enrich hostile individuals or elements. Top people
from military and police special operations organizations (including LAPD
SWAT) have signed-on to this project without reservation.

I myself am a combat veteran of the Viet Nam War and a graduate of both the
USAIS Airborne and Ranger courses. I have also been instrumental in
developing the contemplated scenarios that will be encountered by contestants
in this program. Now, although the show represents the epitome of realism
relative to what has transpired before, there will be no tactical secrets
traded-off to any international enemy or domestic criminal that would not
otherwise be available to them from a casual perusal of readily available
publications from Desert, Paladin and many others who furnish original and
reprinted TMs and FMs. Moreso, although the intensity will be cranked up,
and the players will not be actors but real Spec Ops personnel,
action/adventure films of the past decade have done more to reveal
operational tactics and procedures than will here be unveiled. No hostile
will benefit from viewing this program by w! ay of enabling them to develop
countermeasures or opposing tactics. What will come shining through,
however, is a most definite message, delivered loud and clear: "Don't _ _ _
_ with America."

In conclusion, your points and concerns are well-taken and are themselves
reflected in the care taken in the conception and development of this
groundbreaking series. Furthermore, I give you my personal pledge as a
fellow Ranger that you will find nothing negative from this program. While I
cannot reveal to you the specifics of this reality-based show, please
understand without a scintilla of doubt, if I thought for one instant that
the operational integrity of any of America's military and/or police forces
would be somehow compromised, I would be the first to distance myself and
raise my voice in protest.

That said, I would urge you to reassess and reconsider your initial reaction
to this project, in light of my assurances and personal insights. Secondly,
I would urge you to submit your individual or team application to compete in
this unprecedented event.

If you have any further comments, please feel free to direct them to Combat
Missions.

Rangers Lead The Way. De Oppresso Libre

William S. Ungerman
Military Technical Advisor
Combat Missions

[Scotty]

Hazen,

So basically this guy was saying that he was paid enuogh that he just doesn't care?? I guess he (conveniently) just doesn't get the point. A mockery is a mockery whether OPSEC is broken or not.

Good meeting most of you in chat. I've downloaded some more Cartman for the next one.

Scotty

PS - Anyone check out this guy's bona-fidos to see if he's a real deal, or paid amateur?

------------------
Some people call them "terrorists", these boys have simply been misguided

[dmgedgoods]

Mr. Hazen...that looks like it would be a good start to another thread. This thread seems a bit 'used and abused'.

[Tracy]

Here's my message to them. Thanks Hazen!

William S. Ungerman
Military Technical Advisor
Combat Missions

Mr. Ungerman:

I am writing this letter to express my concerns and displeasure over the production of the TV show "Combat Missions". This is an ill-conceived notion from which no good will come.


First, a foreigner is involved in developing a show that pits elite US organizations from military and law enforcement against each other.


Second, money is involved. Why the reward? Special Operations and Law Enforcement personnel are NEVER in their careers for the money. Why is it a factor now?

Third, what possible motive could the producers have to make such a show? Are you prepared to publicly claim that the REAL reason for the show is to tell the world "Don't _ _ _ _ with America."? Those are your exact words. Do you know anything about psychological operations or propaganda? This is NOT good. If America needs to send a message, then let the experts send it, not Hollywood.

So what is the real reason? Pure and simple, you people are trying make money by entertaining the masses. You are exploiting the mythos surrounding special operations, in all forms, for your personal gain and creating advantage for any network that airs the program. There is no altruism in in Hollywood or the entertainment industry. Never has been; never will be.

I, too, am a combat veteran. I'm a retired SF Warrant Officer; and I spent 14 YEARS assigned to various SF A-Teams. It is also irrelevant. I realize that your show won't air anything classified, but the damage you will create involves an image that is constantly scrutinized by the world on a daily basis. Your intent is to make money and remained employed in the entertainment industry. SPECIAL OPERATIONS IS NOT ENTERTAINING. Regardless of the 'spin' you apply to your concept, it all boils down to entertainment. By this time, your sponsors have already laid out seed money for your endeavor; so the chances of cancellation are nil.

I know you won't stop making this show; but I intend to make any active-duty or reserve military person know that their careers are at risk. You can't work in Special Operations without a security clearance; and the rules for permanently revoking a clearance are much less stringent than discharge action. Going in front of a television, under any condition, is a very quick way lose a security clearance.

I don't have voice in the LE community, but I certainly can make myself heard in the SO community. And I shall; as well as through a Congressional Inquiry to the Pentagon. In Special Forces; one of our nick-names is "The Quiet Professionals". There's a REASON for that moniker.

Tracy-Paul **********
Chief Warrant Officer (retired)
United States Army Special Forces

[Ranger002]

Guy,
Posted by me... Written by him (ungerwear) which is the reason I wanted to find out his background
William Hazen

[RAT]

Not that I'm picking or anything... Did anyone read what Mr. William S. Ungerman wrote in his responce.
I myself am a combat veteran of the Viet Nam War and a graduate of both the USAIS Airborne and Ranger courses.

Good for him.. How many others graduated from these courses???

It does not sound like he was with the (correct me if I'm wrong) 173 Rangers, SF, or SOG units.

I am very troubled by this... Someone posted a Marine Sgt Winn who was looking for partners. The only thing I remember about this Marine was him working at the pool. I never knew him as a Team Leader only as a life guard. I don't have the paper like some of you WORRIORSbut I have posted my past. I have problems with people who return e-mail with out any substance for back up.

Just My .02

RAT OUT!!!

[Slug]

Kinda sounds like the commercial version of the Swiss Raid.


www.military.ch/SRC/SRC2001/1st-info.htm (http://www.military.ch/SRC/SRC2001/1st-info.htm)

[Sharky]

Hey Poly, Can you verify this guy through Senior Tac's office?

Chief and Hazen, great e-mails. Well spoken. I fired one at em on Thursday but haven't gotten a response as of yet. Let's go guys. Everyone get those e-mails fired off.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[This message has been edited by Sharky (edited 01-02-2001).]

[dmgedgoods]

The show is gonna suck anyway. Hell, look at Survivor...What a joke!
What Mr. ********** was saying before is shockingly true: Whether it tanks or not, it gives SOF a bad name, while this shitheads laugh all the way to the bank.
It's gone beyond the point of no return. Unless somebody blows LA off the map, the show must go on.
I personally think the show is gonna suck.

------------------
Shawn McDaniel NBTNDT (yet)

Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

[Gunny Hicks]

Unfortunately, the show will go on. But like survivor, and many other currently/recently aired shows, I simply won't watch it.

As for supporting this show. I will very strongly discourage any Active Duty personnel that I know from participating, on numerous grounds as stated very well in several of the previous posts.

There will always be those wannabees, and the has beens who never quit made it, that will pursue a slot on this show. And they will get on it. And some of them will make money. But I won't watch 'em. And I won't support any of them.

Those in the community have a subtle way of influencing peers. I think now is the time to begin influencing.

(By the way, I make no claim about being a Special Forces type. I'm a professional Infantryman, whom has been fortunate enough to have been a Marine Corps Scout/Sniper since I was a PFC, that is about as Special as I've gotten)

[Gunny Hicks]

Sorry...double post.


[This message has been edited by Gunny Hicks (edited 01-03-2001).]

[DFC5343]

Fuck um...fuck um all!

[MFFI]

I JUST CANT WAIT TO SEE WHICH ORGANIZATION SERVES UP THE LARGEST NUMBER OF CAMERA WHORES!!!
If the producers of this show think they have a market, they will exploit it. So figuratively (did I spell that right?) speaking: The carrot has been dangled, and as painful as it is, some jackass is going to follow the carrot! I just hope "MY" branch of the community don't win the "HOLLYWOOD WHORE" award.

Will it be:
Federal LEA's (FBI,DEA etc)...
Local SWAT's from big cities...
SF guys...
SeAL's...
Force Recon...
Rangers...
STS guys...
or just some whacky corporate executive who spends his money on "Adventure Training" at the local 'paintball' center...


Place your bets gentlemen, hope for the best...

[Tracy]

Originally posted by MFFI:
...I just hope "MY" branch of the community don't win the "HOLLYWOOD WHORE" award...


Amen.

Side Note to MFFI: Is the Yuma Facility still going? That was one of the better ideas SF Schools had. I was the Ops Officer for the first HAHO Course back in 1988 out at El Centro.

I did MFF JM in 1984. I'm the only person to almost 'kill' Gary O'Neil and live to tell about it. My lowering line fell off my attachment ring and I jettisoned the ruck on short final to the pea pit on Sicily DZ. The ruck landed at his feet. I think the MFF committee still has the "Mad Bomber" doll in the break room...

[MFFI]

... AS A QUICK AFTERTHOUGHT... has anybody sent, or thought to send a link to the "Combat Missions" website to the USASOC PAO's office? I wonder if the official position would be similar to the "USA vs. THE WORLD" fights a few years ago...

[OldSFer]

I have a 4 man team (myself included) of former SF'ers who are ready and willing to do the show.

We want to change the format a bit to make it more realistic. Since it is supposed to be "Combat Missions", we want live munitions (we will supply our own) and our opponents are to be the a team that includes all the shows producers & directors. To make it more realistic for us you should wear either black pajamas or uniforms of the NVA (We can supply those too). Lets make it a fight to the finish, winners take all. We will donate half our winnings to your widows and children.

De Oppresso Liber

[Sharky]

YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Sign me UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
F.I.D.O.