Shamrock vs. Ortiz

[Daredevil]

I don't know if anyone else here on SOCNET follows the MMA world, but this is a fight that's been a long time coming. The Team Punishment (Ortiz' side) vs. the Lion's Den (Shamrock's group) rivalry is probably the biggest in the world of Mixed Martial Arts.

Ortiz is one tough bastard, as well as a complete asshole. I'm hoping the Shamrock name is like his Kryptonite, since Ken's little brother Frank was the last one to hand him a beating. On top of that Tito's only other loss was to Guy Mezger, another Lion's Den fighter, even though Tito beat him in a rematch.

I've been a fan of Ken's since the early days of UFC, and I'm glad he's finally getting back to where he belongs instead of pro wrestling (God that's terrible). He lost his last two fights to Fujita and Frye, but they were a hell of a lot bigger than Ortiz.

Oh and to keep this military related, here's a write up talking about Ken training with some Marine Corps Martial Arts Program guys in Okinawa http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookup/20011010212923

Anyway, comments? I'd like to hear them, unless I'm all alone in this.

UFC Press Release : :
TITO ORTIZ vs. KEN SHAMROCK AT UFC 40: VENDETTA;
LIVE FROM THE MGM GRAND, NOVEMBER 22

Shamrock Returns To Face Ortiz In A Super-Fight Between Ultimate Fighting Championship's Old Guard Against New

Live Event Tickets To Go On Sale This Saturday, August 24

LAS VEGAS, AUGUST 19, 2002.The much anticipated fight that will pit Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) Light Heavyweight Champion Tito Ortiz and UFC legend Ken Shamrock has finally arrived. Fight fans know Ortiz and Shamrock have a major score to settle based on long-standing hostilities between each other, although the two have never fought. They will finally do just that in the main event of UFC 40: Vendetta, live on pay-per-view at 10 p.m., EDT, Friday, November 22 from the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Live event tickets for the eight-fight card go on sale at Noon this Saturday, August 24, with prices ranging from $30 to $300. Tickets can be purchased at the MGM Grand Garden Arena box office and all Ticketmaster locations, by calling Ticketmaster at 1-877-632-7400 and (702) 474-4000, or at www.ticketmaster.com.

UFC 40: Vendetta will be available live at 10 p.m.EDT/7 p.m. PDT, Friday, November 22, on iN DEMAND, DIRECTV, TVN, Dish Network, BellExpressVu and Viewers Choice Canada. The suggested retail price is $29.95.

Fight fans have been anticipating Shamrock's return to the UFC ever since he defeated Brian Johnston by forearm choke submission Dec. 7, 1996, at Ultimate Ultimate '96 in Birmingham, Ala. Shamrock vs. Ortiz will pit the UFC's old guard against the new.

The hostility between the two fighters was building for years, but reached a boiling point March 5, 1999, at UFC 19: Young Guns in Bay St. Louis, Miss., after Ortiz battered Shamrock protégé Guy Mezger forcing stoppage of the fight. In the post-fight celebration, Tito donned a T-shirt parodying Mezger's name. Shamrock attempted to vault the Octagon fence and has since vowed to teach Ortiz some humility. "I cannot leave the game without fighting him," Shamrock said.

Ortiz, of course, has risen to become the light heavyweight champion and is now fully recovered from a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee suffered in a training mishap in February. In his last title defense, he won a unanimous decision over Vladimir Matyushenko September 28, 2001, at UFC 33: Victory In Vegas. His response to Shamrock's return is typical Tito. "I can't wait to welcome him back to the new UFC."

The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), headquartered in Las Vegas, Nev., is the world's leading mixed martial arts sports event. Owned and operated by Zuffa LLC, the UFC programs six live pay-per-view events yearly through cable and satellite providers. In addition to its US distribution on iN DEMAND, DIRECTV, TVN and Dish Network, UFC events are distributed internationally through British Sky Broadcasting, WOWOW, Inc., in Japan, Globosat in Brazil and Modern Sports and Entertainment in Scandinavia. UFC licenses video games for all major playing platforms through Crave Entertainment.

The UFC's next PPV event will be at 10 p.m.EDT/7 p.m. PDT on Friday, Sept. 27, live from Mohegan Sun Arena in Uncasville, Conn. Locate Ultimate Fighting Championship on the internet at www.ufc.tv.

[Xdeth]

I hope Shamrock wins. The WWF thing was smart move for Ken as far as getting some cash and securing a comfortable future, even though it really didn't work out for him over the long haul. And if I was in Oki when that lesson you linked to occurred I would have been the first Marine in line for training. Good link. Between him and Sensei Advincula the Marine Corp would have a hellva program! Maybe they can recruit his training services for additional duties in the future, Marine Corp wide. Would be a nice recruiting tool also I imagine.

[Daredevil]

It looked like in a lot of those pictures he was demonstrating stand up stuff. Ken is a fantastic submission fighter and a leglock master, I hope he passed some of that on to them.

Another interesting thing about Ken is that he joined the Marines after High School but they dropped him from boot when they found out about a spinal injury he sustained in High School, even though he completely recovered from it.

I guess he had to settle on being a pro fighter.

[chokeu2]

A thread after one of my favorite subjects. I was hoping that there was a place for this on this board. Hence my screen name.
And I notice an apparent interest on the part of Xdeth and his Badboy logo...

Who here trains? I know that the event has passed, but I fall into Ortiz camp all day. You wanna talk asshole, talk Shamrock, either one. I speak that from personal experience. Ortiz is quite a nice, personable guy.

Ortiz has come a very long way, and I believe that he has become the better fighter. A friend of mine did a stint on with the Den, and then Shamrock2000; but quit along with quite a bit of the team due to some serious mistreatment by both the shammy's. No pay, no food, being trained as a punching bag so that Ken and Frank could train for their fights.

[Xdeth]

chokeu2,
Well my bias is not based on any personal exper. but rather a fans point of view. And that is based more on the length of time Ken has been a figure. I'm "older" school because well, I'm older. I have trained in traditional judo and karate. I train alot less now (as in none) because of my current finances. But I've got my eyes on some schools here in Raleigh NC. When possible I'm going back to judo and I want to try Wing Chun, sort of my own MMA. Do you know of anyone here running training in MMA? I'll be honest, I am not going to take the physical punishment I put up with in my 20's, It's alot less important to me now. Then again, I'm not ready for Tai-Chi in the park.

[e5wsf]

Originally posted by chokeu2
Who here trains?

Just started a bit ago. Nothing like getting my ass kicked a couple nights a week to keep me humble. 32 is not the best age to start this stuff. I love it though. BJJ 2-3 times a week and kick boxing 2 nights a week. There are probably better alternatives than KB but I like it and don't feel like driving 1.5 hrs one way for Muay Thai. Hell, I still don't know the difference between most martial arts. With all my mat burns, I'm starting to look like a real fighter:D Got one on my lip. No ringworm yet.

The Ortiz and Shamrock fight should be good. Some people talking about a possible work though. I like to fool myself into thinking that stuff doesn't happen. Take care gents'.

[Daredevil]

I don't think the mix of martial arts matters so much as the fighter. The fighter's conditioning, individual skill, and heart is much more important than what he trains in, provided he has at least one grappling and one stand up art to train in.

I really like Ortiz, proud American, and one tough SOB, but I also got interested in this stuff mainly because of watching Ken Shamrock.

I don't think this will be a work. Ken legitmately hates Ortiz, mainly because of his behavior after beating Lion's Den fighters Jerry Bohlander and Guy Mezger. When Tito put on the Tshirt saying, "I made Gay Mezger my bitch" that was the last straw.

Frank Shamrock managed to beat Ortiz, and Frank weighed less than him. I think Ken is stronger than Tito, but honestly, Ken is not as good a fighter as Frank. In proportion though, Ken's last few fights have been against monsters like Fujita and Don Frye, so someone like Ortiz should seem like light work.

Tito is basically a groundn'pounder. He needs to be able to maintain ground dominance. I'm not sure he can do that against an experienced grappler as strong as Ken is. Although I'll bet Tito is training against guys like Mark Kerr and Ricco Rodriguez to prepare.

By the way, rumor is that Frank doesn't think Ken can beat Ortiz. That should tell you something. But Frank and Ken have never been the picture of brotherly love from what I understand.

[chokeu2]

Frank and Ken just about hate each other, so there is no love loss there. Frank and Tito have become big buddies to top it all off!

You nailed it when talking about heart bro. Seriously. But lets not forget conditioning. Tito, in my humble opinion is the better conditioned of the two atheletes at this point. At one time, I would have said that Ken is, but no more.

Tito has come so far in his game. He has really put the money that he has earned to good use. He is financing his training.

Here is something to remember about Tito and his grappling abilities... He did nearly dominate at Abu Dhabi! Add that to the fact that he is a helluva striker now.

Forgive me if personal bias seems to cloud my judgement!

Xdeth, you are a hardass if you trained old school Judo, that is some rough shit! Kudos to you. As to someone running a school in near you, as a matter of fact, I think that I do know someone running a great MMA school in Raliegh. I will make a call before I open my yap. I was up there last year for a NAGA (North American Grappling Association) tourney, and spoke to someone that was related to the school there.

e5wsf, 32 is still young for this! The guy that I keep mentioning, my biz partner in all of this is 56! And when he takes his shirt off, he looks like a shredded 20 year old. And whoops us like we are all 2 year old. He is a hard man made strong and pliable at that age by yoga, lots of conditioning. I have learned from him that the age thing doesn't matter too much... And your ass is doing a helluva lot of training! Keep that up and you could be extremely competitive in submission tourney's real quick, that is if you are not already...

[e5wsf]

My instructor just won a good fight in Ohio. I unfortunatly was unable to attend. He won the Super Heavyweight title on Sept 21 or 22. Again, I don't know all of the levels or divisions or how the community is organized but, I believe he won The Fight Zone. Don't know if its a tourney or event. Great guy. Great instructor. I get the oportunity to learn from some very experience people. This is turning out to be a great subject.

I'm not sure who I'd like to see win with Ken and Tito. Tito sure plays up the asshole bit on TV. That's TV though. He is good for the sport. I am looking forward to this fight.

[chokeu2]

The fight zone is a well respected breeding ground for guys to hop up to the international level. Your trainer is a good man e5!
BTW, the Tito asshole bit is just that. He is one of the coolest guys I have ever met in the fight community... Can't say that much about the other guy in this discussion...
And where the hell did you come up with that signature? LMAO! I think that you're a sick man...

[e5wsf]

Originally posted by chokeu2
And where the hell did you come up with that signature? LMAO! I think that you're a sick man...

Another member here, TackDaBoat, is the author. Short story is that I broke my leg and ankle the Sunday before Memorial Day rolling my foot over on the stairs. A few beers may have helped. I didn't have a good story (like some dipshit former member here that went by BenningBound) for it so he suggested that as a opening. I was thinking of posting the xrays in the humor section under the thread "Things not to do while drinking".

Glad to hear Tito Ortiz is a good guy.

[Daredevil]

Well did anyone here watch it? It proved to be an action packed three rounds.

Ken may have lost, but he still proved that he is one tough bastard.

[e5wsf]

Originally posted by Daredevil
Well did anyone here watch it? It proved to be an action packed three rounds.

Ken may have lost, but he still proved that he is one tough bastard.

I watched it. Tito certainly proved that he deserves to be the champ. Ken's face was a mess after the fight. He looked like Rocky Balboa at the end of the first movie.
I taped the whole thing. Well almost. The tape ran out at the end of the 1st round of Tito vs. Ken. The other fights were good also.

[Daredevil]

Yeah, Ortiz definitely looks like he's on top of his game. If Chuck Liddell doesn't get his shot at the title it's really going to damage the UFCs credibility. I think he's the only guy with a shot at beating Ortiz, mainly because he has the best takedown defense in MMA.