CNN and accuracy

[Hotmike]

Well it's already started... CNN and their sources "speaking on condition of anonymity" have started pointing fingers at the "lowly enlisted swine on the ground"... (Versus the fine upstanding Commander/Fighter Pilot who pushed the button) I know it's always been my dream to drop bombs on my own position and become famous... I've been watching this story unfold with interest, and would like to note a few "problems" with CNNs fact checkers.
1. Designating a target with a laser is fine for acquisition, however, a slick bomb is not guided by the laser... It's guided by gravity! (as well as the aircraft parameters when it releases)
2. Use of an IR pointer doesn't guide the bomb either... It "Points" to the target... The pilot should then ask the controller to "Snake" or "Rope" the target (meaning to wiggle the beam back and forth to show which side of the beam is originating) (normally a controller will do this without prompting, as the pointer in his hand will move about an inch, but the far side of the beam will move 2 to 3 hundred meters around the target area)
3. In the 9-Line JFIRE briefing, the controller will tell the pilot what heading to take when attacking the target, the pilot flys along that heading, and confirms he has the target in sight, and the controller will "Clear him Hot" to drop ordnance...
4. The most obvious problem with CNNs coverage... The Air Force SSgt Name was Jason Faley... Not FARLEY... You would think the worlds largest news organization would at least check that basic fact... Or did they get his name from the same sources "Speaking on condition of anonymity"... If a person can't stand behind the words they are saying... they shouldn't be printed. CNN should report the facts... People died... and others didn't... Thank God for that. My prayers go out to the familys and all who were involved.

Hotmike


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Diplomacy is the Art of saying "Nice Doggie" till you find a huge rock to crush his skull with...

[The ONE]

HOT MIKE,

I agree 110% with the Jane Fonda network. Plus, what you said about snaking the MULE
is right on too.

I hate all that finger pointing shit.

Not to stand up for any O's, but...

Let's not forget how the Pilot feels. How would you feel if you dropped the bomb?

It was an accident.

Late

[Scotty]

Question. Not knowing much at all about gravity-based aerial munitions, and not knowing how high up the pilot was when he released... what are the chances that a wind sheer or shift took the bomb off course? I imagine it would take a lot to drift a 500# piece of falling metal.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families and survivors.

Scotty

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Some people call them "terrorists", these boys have simply been misguided

[This message has been edited by Scotty (edited 03-15-2001).]

[Tracy]

Any chance the FO's accidently designated their position during "laser on" call.

I had that happen out at Hill AFB with an AN/PAQ-1. The FO was turning on the LTD while putting on his shoulder. The F-16s' LST picked up the spot on our position and began his run. I happen to look over my shoulder when we cleared hot and noticed no angle or bearing change on the Falcon.

We got the abort call out before he pickled the rack.

One of many significant emotional events of my life.

[The ONE]

Tracy,

I think that is what happened.

[NMBR5ML]

It's impossible to say exactly what happened from the news I've heard. No one has specified if it was an MK82 or a GBU15, only that it was a 500 lb. bomb. MK82 is unguided, while the GBU15 is guided. Either way, it's probably safe to say that if a laser was in use, the pilot targeted the origin for whatever reason.

[Hotmike]

All, The possibilites are endless of what "could" have happened. As far as the aircraft picking up the LTD tho, in the JFIRE 9-line, the controller must pass the Laser code AND Laser Target Line (pretty much restricting the pilots run in to 60 degrees either side of the LTL) (Minus 10 degrees to either side)... Reguardless, the tragedy happened, the media is looking for scapegoats... I just wish they would wait till they had confirmed reports before they start printing garbage... BTW... I don't place blame on the Pilot either... It's probably harder on him than anyone else... I apologize if that was the impression...

Hotmike

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Diplomacy is the Art of saying "Nice Doggie" till you find a huge rock to crush his skull with...

[Tracy]

Mk82s can be brought in via laser if the aircraft is equipped with a Laser Spot Tracker (LST). The LST was designed to pick up targets marked with a laser, but the ordnance doesn't have a laser homing capability. Thus all ordnance on the racks benefit from the accuracy of the laser by using it as a marker versus a homing beacon.

HotMike, am I off base here? It's been 19 years since I wrote the SO Manual for Radar Beacon/Transponder and Laser Operations.

BTW, I offered my anecdote as a reference; wondering if that type of mistake still happens. I want to clarify that I didn't intend as a reason for the mishap. Sorry for the confusion.

[1026]

I watched a re-run of the Pentagon press conference on C-SPAN. RADM Craig Quigley stated the bombs were MK82s. Nothing was mentioned about fuzing or fin configuration.

[Hotmike]

Tracy,
Not far off at all... If a LASER is used to designate, the pilot can see where the target is via his HUD on his run in... The bombs have zero clue, but now the pilots skill at bombing comes in... Once he sees the target, and confirms it, the GFAC will reference NEAREST friendlies, and Threat locations FROM THE TARGET.... In other words, once he sees and confirms target location, everything after that is referenced from that target location (I.E. Nearest freindlies 2200 meters south, 2S-6 4500 meters North East)... The LST and IR pointer are tools to get the pilots eyes on the target... Once you have that confirmed, the rest is cake... However from this point, when working multiple aircraft, Situational Awareness is paramount as they start "swapping positions in the sky", keeping track of Lead, 2, 3, and 4 can get a little hairy...

Hotmike

(BTW, I've worked with both of the ETACs involved, and can assure you... Both are top notch controllers.)

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Diplomacy is the Art of saying "Nice Doggie" till you find a huge rock to crush his skull with...

[Tracy]

Hotmike:

We used to call Radar/Laser Operations "Turkeys Calls". Just another way to get the pilot to see the target. Pilots, of course, have a much more sophisticated term for what they do...

Nice to hear they still do the Nine-Line. Here's a trivia question: Where did the nine-line format come from? You Saigon Country Club Members be quiet!

[Hotmike]

Tracy, My earliest view of 9-Line action was from (then) TSgt Charlie Jones... A Combat Controller and Butterfly FAC in Laos in... I'm thinking it was 64 or so... He may have borrowed it from somewhere, but the first documented "Minimal Briefing card" that I can find was the Butterfly FAC stuff. Prior to that, the "Rover Joes" from North Africa In WWII had a 5 Line briefing, and the Mosquito FACs in Korea used and expanded version of that same 5 Line with a remarks section included.

If you have other references, I'd be interested in hearing them (as it is part of the history of Close Air Support)

Hotmike



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Diplomacy is the Art of saying "Nice Doggie" till you find a huge rock to crush his skull with...

[Tracy]

Originally posted by Hotmike:

...If you have other references, I'd be interested in hearing them (as it is part of the history of Close Air Support)

Hotmike


Believe-it-or-Not, Artillery Call For Fire Format from World War 2. Korea and Vietnam each produced a variation of the basic fomat.

Up to when I retired in 1993, the Artillery and CAS folks kept the nine-format for fire support similar so there's less memorization needed.

[Tracy]

Guy:

What type was the op?