Royal Marines

[sgman]

I was wondering about the Royal Marine Commandos. They have been given the title 'Commando', they go through a pretty tough selection process but would they be considered 'Special Forces'?

If they are considered that, then shouldn't they have a larger choice of personal weapons. What I have seen is that they use the SA-80 and not the M4A1 which is prefered by SOF.

If they are considered a 'Special Forces' unit. Then the job is really half done if they do not have a wide selection of weapons.

[Joe90]

They are not classed as Special Forces and do not receive Special Forces pay however they are very good troops and have a long and glorious history.

What weapons a unit has access to does not make it elite

Joe90

[sgman]

Well since it is not classified as 'Special Forces' then there are no reasons why they should get any extra weaponry. But if it was classified as that, they should.

I have a book that classified the RMC as 'Special Forces', I should write them a letter saying that they should correct it.

[Joe90]

Many books classify the USMC as Special Forces and the Royal Marines are as good as or better then them (Better because their British)

However they are not in part of UKSF so we do not clarify them as Special Forces.

They do use all types of weaponry if you look at the ministry of defence website you can see pictures of them using M16 and the like

Joe90

[Bravo_One_Three]

Originally posted by Joe90
Many books classify the USMC as Special Forces and the Royal Marines are as good as or better then them (Better because their British)

Or because they somehow survive on those NAAAAAAAASTY rations! Those things are worse than the WORST MRE's I've ever had. I was looking for the little tin can that simply said "Ass" or "Goat Genitals" in the menu description. Royal Marine Commandos are as hard as Woodpecker Lips though.

A really neat weapon does not make a special forces trooper.

[Hoplite]

I've not seen any booties posting in here so I thought I'd try and explain on their behalf.
Royal Marines are light infantry that specialise in amphibious assault. They are armed much like 'normal' infantry (i.e. the standard infantry weapon is the SA80(A2), which, we are assured, is a fine weapon. Approx 10% of Royal Marines are parachute-qualified ('airborne') including SBS, Mountain Leaders (what used to be the Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre), Brigade Reconnaissance (Troop?) and other specialists.
The SBS is part of UKSF and, along with the units mentioned above, tends to use more 'specialist' weapons such as the M16A2 and M4 variants as does the Parachute Regiment pathfinders.
Whilst you can argue til doomsday as to who is the best, which training is the hardest, etc, one fact is claimed by the Royal Marines and that is their training course (something like 35 weeks) is the longest infantry training course in the World.
Bear in mind that the authors of books that state USMC/RM, etc, are 'special forces' normally do not have a clue to the true meaning of these words.

[Lionsniper]

Pretty tough? I'd personally say bloody hard. I have given myself the next six months to attempt toget up to the standard I believe necessary to pass the Officer selection process. As for the training that follows....... I think if you look atthe RM website you'll get a little idea of how 'special' they really are without the need for the tag. For officers however, it goes a little somethng like this...

Initial Training - nine weeks. Basics of drill, weapon handling, PT and equipment care.

Military training - 13 weeks. Increasingly difficult training in all the above, to include 'yomping' with up to 70lbs across Dartmoor.

Amphibious Training - 1 week. RM Poole basic amphibious warfare skills.

Commando Course - 4 weeks. Culminating in Test Week. nine mile speed march, the endurance course, the Tarzan Assault course, and then the 30 miler, all with 32lbs of kit.

Advanced Military Training - last phase approx 9 weeks. Including a number of visits to Royal Navy ships and a 10 day final exercise.

Once this has been completed there is a period of 12 months as a troop commander as a probationary period.

[Bringer]

Julian Thompson's book, Royal Marines: From Sea Soldiers to a Special Force, does give one the impression that Royal Marines are a cut above. The title is somewhat misleading because, as Joe90 said, Royal Marine Commandos are not classified as UK Special Forces.

However, they do perform to much higher standards than conventional units and have a unique role in Britain's defense. I believe that is what Maj. General Thompson meant, and that he was not trying to classify them alongside the SAS or SBS.

I also recall reading somewhere that the Royal Marines Brigade Patrol Troop draws Special Forces pay.

[Huey One Four]

The Making of a Royal Marine Commando also gives a very god insight.

I think it said both Commancio and the Artic Warfare Cadre get SF pay too, but not classed as SF.

Oh, and the M&AW Cadre has been renamed something else, cant remember what.

Rhys

[Gipper]

Commachio was renamed to Fleet Protection Group (FPGRM) in 2001. In the RMs, only SBS and MLs (as the Brigade Patrol Troop) get SF pay. This is what I've read over that MilitaryForums which has a high concentration of current and former Royal Marines:
http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1

As for FPG, it's just considered another possible first tour assignment like going to one of the Commandos, although it seems rather unpopular:
http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=520

[Joe90]

Moutain Leaders get half special forces pay so they are half a special force!

Fleet protection group the new name for Commachio troop do not get any extra money just more training in the dark arts of CQB.

Joe90

[baboontwozero]

The three Para battalions and three Commandos RM are pretty much organised and equipped as light infantry battalions and are expected to carry out the same functions as other light-role infantry battalions (eg tours in Northern Ireland ) besides their specialist roles of (respectively) airborne/airmobile assault and amphibious landings/mountain & cold-weather warfare. The Pathfinder Platoon of 16 Air Assault Brigade and 3 Commando Brigade's Patrol Troop are more akin to US Army LRSUs or USMC Force Recon.

[Royal]

All UK SF come under DSF. There are three units under DSF; SAS, SBS and one other.

BRF and Pathfinder Pl of 16 Bde, do not receive SF pay, therefore they are not SF.

ML's (who are not necessarily in BRF) get para pay (because they must be para qualified). They do not get 1/2 SF pay.

[J.Meoff]

Their are about 6000 Royal Marine Commandos. It's a bit of a process getting there. My personal take is they were a far savier warfighter than the USMC.

Force is of course a different can O beans, esp this last couple years.

[Daredevil]

When the Royal Marine units adopted the name Commando it was during WW II where Commando meant something a little different than it does today.

WW II Commandos were more like shock troops than the modern image of commando that people have when they think Special Forces.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the inspiration for the name Commando come from the old British enemy, the Boers of South Africa?

[Huey One Four]

Originally posted by Royal
All UK SF come under DSF. There are three units under DSF; SAS, SBS and one other.

BRF

Im guessing youll tell me to fuck off if I ask who the other unit is?

[Chris1]

Originally posted by Daredevil
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the inspiration for the name Commando come from the old British enemy, the Boers of South Africa?
Yep, 'Winston' became famous for his exploits in the Boer War and as PM named the Commando's after the Boer Commando.
Originally they were Army Commando's and although they were used as 'shock troops' (well trained Light Infantry with good equipment) they also did do some pretty commando-like stuff, such as raids in just about every theatre in the second world war.
They were Special Forces, but not in the definition we use today, they were simply a special force that could perform tasks that no-one else at the time could, recieving special equipment and training to enable them to do so.

[Private_Baur]

Chris1 do you have a good weblink for the "Royal Green Jackets" :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D



Stefan

[Royal]

Originally posted by Huey One Four
Im guessing youll tell me to fuck off if I ask who the other unit is?

I'd never be so rude, but you get the general idea...

[Chris1]

Originally posted by Private_Baur
Chris1 do you have a good weblink for the "Royal Green Jackets" :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D



Stefan
Something funny? (http://www.army.mod.uk/rgj/index.html) :D

[Huey One Four]

Originally posted by Royal
I'd never be so rude, but you get the general idea...

Thought so :D

[Private_Baur]

Originally posted by Chris1
Something funny? (http://www.army.mod.uk/rgj/index.html) :D

Thank you for der weblink!!
Indeed it's a funny name if you translate it into german ;)

Königliche grüne Jacken :D



Stefan

[Spoonman]

This is a stupid question, I know and I apologize, but I was just wondering if all Royal Marines are "Royal Marine Commandos" or are just some "Commando qualified"?

(Sorry for all the " " " " , I'm a real Generation X guy I guess :p )

I have never really found a definitive answer to this so just a quick answer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...

[Chris1]

No, Royal will be able to correct me if I go wrong but I believe there are Royal Marine technicians, mechanics etc who can wear the cap badge (with a RN Beret and a piece of red fabric behind the cap badge) but they cannot wear the green lid unless they have passed the All Arms Commando Course.

[Spoonman]

Thanks for the reply!

[baboontwozero]

All Royal Marines are Commandos except for the Bandsmen, who are stretcher-bearers in wartime.

[Lionsniper]

I think you'll find that Bandsmen do a little more than stretcher bearing, many are N.B.C specialists as well as many other specilisms available to them in training for a wartime role.

[combatQA]

so booties what's the SP on your future are you being choped from fleet to land as the telegraph said a few months ago?
For the yanks reading there is speculation that the 'REAL' Marines are to cease being part of the Navy and come under the army. Also 16 air assualt is to go purely airborne with apache being farmed out as a lynx anti tank replacement. And a 3rd light role brigade being formed possibly by converting a mechanised bde.

[Slick Will]

Question for you para's out there....

How many checks do you guys do? I know the last check is on the bird, but can't remember if it's one check or two beforehand.

Anyone?


S/F,


Chris

[Royal]

Originally posted by Chris1
No, Royal will be able to correct me if I go wrong but I believe there are Royal Marine technicians, mechanics etc who can wear the cap badge (with a RN Beret and a piece of red fabric behind the cap badge) but they cannot wear the green lid unless they have passed the All Arms Commando Course.

Sorry Chris, you're wrong. All RM's apart from the Band Service and the nods and yoyos at CTC are commandos. All personell (with a very few exceptions, mostly RN aircrew) in 3 Commando Bde are commando qualified.

@Ryan15 - one word, OPSEC.

[Chris1]

Well, I can't be perfect all the time :)
(welcome back by the way)

[KJ]

I like OPSEC. Let's keep it that way. KJ:D