Elite Unit Of Special Ops Marines To Join SOCOM

[Echo-8-Hotel]

Subject: MILINET: Elite Unit Of Special Ops Marines To Join SOCOM


Inside The Navy
October 7, 2002
Elite Unit Of Special Ops Marines To Join SOCOM In 2003, Deploy In 2004
In a trial effort, the Marine Corps plans next year to contribute forces to
U.S. Special Operations Command, just as the Navy, Air Force and Army have
done for years. An elite Marine unit would deploy with special operations
forces in 2004, according to Lt. Gen. Michael Hagee, who is expected to
become Marine Corps commandant early next year.
The service and Naval Special Warfare Command -- SOCOM's maritime component
-- have coordinated a "proof of concept" force contribution that will focus
on special reconnaissance, "direct action foreign internal defense" and
coalition support, according to written testimony Hagee provided Congress at
his Sept. 27 confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill.
A unit of about 75 Marines, lead by a Marine lieutenant colonel, has been
proposed, Capt. Robert Harward, a Navy SEAL who commands Naval Special
Warfare Group One, told Inside the Navy last week. Similarly, Lt. Gen. Emil
Bedard, the Marine Corps' head of plans, policies and operations, recently
told reporters a "very small, specialized unit" -- less than 100 Marines to
start -- would be integrated into SOCOM for counterterrorism missions.
Harward said the entire Marine unit would deploy as part of one naval
special warfare squadron. Such squadrons are typically comprised of 250 to
300 personnel, mostly SEALs and special warfare combatant crewmen (the boat
drivers), he said. He spoke to ITN in Virginia Beach, VA, after appearing at
a conference sponsored by the U.S. Naval Institute. The details of the force
contribution are being worked out, officials at the conference said.
"It's probably as close to fruition now as it can be without being
finalized," said Marine Corps Maj. Gen. James Mattis, who supports the idea.
Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division, lead Marine forces in the
Afghanistan war against the Taliban and al Qaeda. Harward also fought in
that war.
"Historically we've had a great relationship," Harward said of SOCOM and the
Marine Corps. "This is a way to build on that and enhance the warfighting
capability as we go forward." At a recent breakfast with reporters in
Washington, DC, Bedard struck a similar tone.
"We think the insertion of this unit may bring some skills and some
capabilities that we could provide that would be additive in nature, not
duplicative," said Bedard. The Marine Corps believes "very strongly" in the
"critical importance" of special operations forces, he said.
"And I think many times there are many missions that Marine forces, for
example, could be doing, that are conventional in nature that sometimes we
have Special Operations Command doing," said Bedard. "We could take some of
that off them." He said "patrolling" is such a mission. Further, adding a
Marine unit to SOCOM's maritime component would strengthen ties between
special ops forces and forward-deployed expeditionary forces, he said.
Under Commandant Gen. James Jones, the Marine Corps has sought to reenergize
connections with the special operations community, reestablishing a board of
officers who work together on mutual priorities, including, operations,
training, equipment and technology.
In Afghanistan, Marine CH-53 helicopters flew insertion and extraction
missions with special ops troops, Bedard said.
The Marine Corps has 105 Marines filling special operations forces billets
around the world ranging from training support to exchange pilots with Task
Force 160 to intelligence analysts and security personnel, according to
Hagee's testimony. He maintains the fielding of the V-22 Osprey will also
bring the Marine Corps and Air Force special operations forces closer
together -- both parties are buying an Osprey variant.
Marine Air Ground Task Forces (MAGTFs) have the ability to execute a wide
range of capabilities, particularly when a requirement exists for the
introduction of helicopter-borne or surface-borne forces from the sea, Hagee
testified.
"Significant national military advantages exist in having Marine Corps
MAGTFs trained in the conduct of maritime special operations capabilities
while positioned aboard amphibious ships in proximity to a target,
unencumbered by base and overflight rights and operating under established
command and control systems," Hagee's testimony reads.
-- Christopher J. Castelli

[GracieLou]

E8H,

It is about time but it is about twenty years too late for my SO! :(

Good luck to the future Marines.....


Grace

[Sweetbriar]

Small unit marks Marine Corps' first foray into commando world

By Gidget Fuentes
ASSOCIATED PRESS

2:20 a.m., June 20, 2003

CAMP PENDLETON – The Navy has its SEALs; the Army has its Green Berets. Now, the Marine Corps will have its own special operations force under a new test program being launched at its West Coast training base.

A ceremony was planned Friday afternoon at Camp Pendleton for Pentagon officials to formally begin a yearlong test of an elite 86-man commando force that will train and operate with Navy SEALs. By next spring, the joint team will go overseas, likely for combat missions in the war on terror.

If it gets the blessing of the military's top commando, Marines will rate a coveted place among the SEALs, Green Berets and Air Force Special Operations forces.

"It's just going to be a (question) of 'Can we successfully integrate a Marine detachment with a SEAL team?'" said Navy Lt. Cmdr. Joe Walker, a U.S. Special Operations Command spokesman in Tampa, Fla. "That's what we need to find out."

When the military formed its U.S. Special Operations Command in 1987, the Marines weren't at the table because top officers did not want to give up a group of Marines to its control.

But some officers still wanted the Corps to be a player, so they instead developed a training program for their amphibious units to become "special operations capable" expeditionary units. Over the years, a unit designated as "SOC" succeeded in showing it could quickly conduct any of two dozen specialized missions, which included embassy evacuations, airfield seizures and downed pilot rescues.

Although it had its share of criticism, the program created SOC-designated units that have done some very high-profiled missions, including the rescue of Air Force Capt. Scott O'Grady in Bosnia and humanitarian missions in wartorn regions.

Marine Lt. Col. Robert J. Coates, a seasoned and highly regarded reconnaissance officer, has been tapped to head the detachment. From a space age-styled building tucked in the military boat basin at Camp Pendleton, Coates will oversee 81 Marines and five Navy medical corpsmen, all high-ranking enlisted men and experienced officers. An influx of an initial $25 million already has bought them new combat equipment and weapons.

After training in small teams, the men will join a Navy SEAL team from Naval Special Warfare Squadron One in October for joint training. In April, they will deploy overseas as a full special operations team.

The trial run comes just as the Bush administration seeks to grow the 47,000-member U.S. Special Operations force by 2,563 and boost its budget by 46 percent. The joint command enjoys strong backing from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Initially, the Marines' presence will be tiny compared to the 2,700 Navy SEALs and special boat crews, 26,000 Army Rangers and Green Berets and 10,000 Air Force special operations personnel.

Since late 2001, when then-Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James L. Jones broached the idea with Air Force Gen. Charles Holland, the idea for a Marine special operations force has sparked much discussion. But it wasn't an entirely new concept.

In 1942, newly formed Marine Raiders landed in the South Pacific and seized key hills and beaches in guerrilla-style strikes against entrenched Japanese forces. They operated deep in enemy territory, collecting intelligence and surveilling beaches ahead of the larger ground forces.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt wanted to create a commando type of unit, said Jon T. Hoffman, a retired colonel and deputy director of the Marine Corps History and Museums Division in Washington.

"The Raiders were what we would classify today as a special operations type of outfit," said Hoffman, who has authored two books on Marine Raiders. "They were specially selected. They had special training."

Although disbanded two years later, Marine Raiders left a unique mark as the modern military's first commando-style force. Historians say they laid the foundation for today's reconnaissance forces.

Steve Greer, a retired Army Ranger and Special Forces sergeant major, said the move will allow the Marines to "get into the fold" of the U.S. Special Operations Command.

By tapping into the command's budget, the Marines will get access to better training and advanced systems to communicate and gather intelligence, said Greer, who teaches commando strategy and counterinsurgency at American Military University in Charles Town, W.Va.

"They see it (as) here's a way to get in better training for our Marines ... and it also gives them the funding," Greer said. The SEALs-Marine linkage is a good start, he said, adding "it's going to provide a nexus between what the SEALs do ... before they hit a target on land and what the Marines do."

_
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20030620-0220-ca-elitemarines.html

[sta marine]

Originally posted by Sweetbriar

"They see it (as) here's a way to get in better training for our Marines ... and it also gives them the funding," Greer said. The SEALs-Marine linkage is a good start, he said, adding "it's going to provide a nexus between what the SEALs do ... before they hit a target on land and what the Marines do."

_
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20030620-0220-ca-elitemarines.html

And its gonna make for some bad-ass fist fights...:D

But seriously, Marines to SOCOM. It's coming way too late. Those bubbas been waiting for about 15 years for a cut of the specops pie, and now that we're behind the power curve it looks like 75 guys will get it. what about everyone else???

I guess Marines will do what we've been doing. Making our own fucking gear and ordering it out of u.s. Cavalry magazine. while your in the barracks, people sewing extra pockets into their rucks, or taking it to their rigger buddy who can do it for them. Extra pockets in the cammies that you have to sneak to the field and wait until your on an op to wear so the 1st.Sgt. dosen't jump your shit...You know things that the SF and SEAL's have been doing since conception. Marines will NEVER be allowed the weapons mods. allowed by the SEALS. I actually heard a SEAL propose to cut the barrel down off one of the Marines 60's, now to you team guys thats no big deal, but to us jarheads.....Can you imagine?!?!?!?!? BRIG. No questions asked. It's gonna be interesting to see how the Marines get along with the rest of specops. Espically the lax uniform and haircut regs.

Anyway, long over due. Hope it works.

[SGTROCK]

You hit the nail on the head! Good post.

[Xdeth]

Not sustainable over the long term, not enough of an impact on either SOF or the Corps, likely to provide some real dis-satisfaction on both blue and green side.

A huge win for the Corps in terms of straightening out how they view their own SOC unit. Likely to yield excellent short term success in the field that will hopefully lead to a real Marine Corps SOCOM presence and all that it entails.

The fact that they didn't go whole hog on this program is suspect to me, but I'm glad as hell to see something happening.

[SOTB]

You said it Xdeth.

[Xdeth]

SOTB,

Maybe they have two "special advisor" slots available.

BTW, Lt. Col. Coates got his "seasoning" at the alma mater, ask our mutual friend about him, some good stories.

[SOTB]

If I actually knew anything that would be helpful, it would almost be interesting to put in for a civilian SOTG slot. But I'm a FAG and the best I could do would be to point them to the cleanest whorehouses on this side of the border.

Wait a sec. That might be useful for something.........

[SGTROCK]

The fact that they didn't go whole hog on this program is suspect to me, but I'm glad as hell to see something happening. [/B][/QUOTE] Interesting observation,I was thinking this myself.If all goes well do you think there will be an expansion on the current #'s?Or is this it, and our beloved Corps is still sticking to its conservative tradition on Specops units?

[CPTAUSRET]

Lots of interesting insights here:

I wish em luck, hope it works out well for the Corps:

Terry

[SOTB]

That's the $64,000 question.

Does the Corps:

*Become successful in this venture, admit that there exists the need to maintain groups trained and equipped to SOCOM standards to include staffing, and expand the role to include other Corps' assets (risking the loss of those same assets during a war or crisis),

or do they:

*Terminate the program in 2-3 years, use this as another argument as to why they were supposedly right the first time, and in-turn probably once again knee-cap the FR companies.

I don't believe that anyone will be unhappy with the guys who are out there doing the pilot. I certainly believe that the SEALs won't have a bunch of immature pricks with a serious inter-service rivalry problem visiting and working with them. And I truly envy those guys for the bucks that will be spent on them and the experience they will obtain during the experiment.

Who knows. If the whole thing collapses, the AF could get ANOTHER green injection at little or no cost.......

[RAT]

Just my .002

For those in the know. I got an e-mail from one of My Marines who is a SSGT now with one of the Force Companies... Looks like if FR or BN Recon went it would not be a bad deal for all the 0321 Marines.

RAT OUT!!!

[sta marine]

I guess Im not in the know... Why would it be a bad deal?

[agentcg]

Ive always looked at Force Recon and even MEUSOC as the Marines version of "SOF" so i cant beleive they haven't been in SOCOM earlier.

[SGTROCK]

Originally posted by agentcg
Ive always looked at Force Recona and even MEUSOC as the marines version of "special forces" so i cant beleive they havent been in socom earlier.
RECONA, what is that the female version?Capitalize Marines for me next time junior!And it would be more like the Marines version of S0F not "Special Forces" if thats what you meant!If your not sure about what the hell your talking about dont post just for the sake of trying to get a real deal to reply to you.Im being nice about this but I would apply this advice to the other threads as well.Lurk and learn for if you do this again especially on the Army or SEAL board you wont be around very long!!!!

[Matchanu]

Just adding my two cents here.
NSW is not a big dog at SOCOM, I believe that The teams have a 2 star now but I'm not sure. The Army and Air Force have 4 stars, this puts NSW at a disadvantage. Augmenting the teams with FR adds numbers to NSW thus placing the officer pool to greater numbers. This venture could be benifical to everyone. I've worked with FR guys before, very proffesional group of guys. FR and team guys get along pretty good as well. I think it's a better idea than adding more SEALs to raise the numbers for NSW, diluting the quality and such, but that's just me. FR's have always had a raw deal when it comes to SOCOM, this is a long time coming.

[mac3982]

why..... has he considered FR or MEUSOC sf or sof... he's still in high school....

[Mephistopheles]

Does anybody know if there are plans to add a Marine air unit to SOCOM?

[socket]

You might get a better answer if you fill out your profile, Mephisto.

[Mephistopheles]

Gotcha;)

[SGTROCK]

Originally posted by mac3982
why..... has he considered FR or MEUSOC sf or sof... he's still in high school.... Was this meant for me? If so before he edited his post he said he considered FR and MEUSOC as the Marines version of Special Forces.Non Marines or even High School kids should not come here and post about subjects of which they have no personal knowledge of. Good questions are one thing but eroneous statements will get you flamed!!This is a Marine forum not a wannabe forum for kids!

[mac3982]

sgt. rock the statement was for agentcg...not you, the agent is a junior in highschool. i was a grunt... did my time and got out....and miss it almost every day.......

[agentcg]

Its actually not that i dont know what im talking about i used the wrong phrase. I mean i know whatever i can read in books or documentaries or what not, but all that is crap next to expierience anyway.

[Bravo_One_Three]

Originally posted by agentcg
Its actually not that i dont know what im talking about i used the wrong phrase.

No, it really is. Say this out loud: "It is"... it... IS.

[mac3982]

see agent, the men on this board, and the others like them have been there, in the shit so to speak, in those units(yes i said unit), or served with guys in those units, as to what you read it don't mean shit.... just listen to the guys and learn that way... and you're right you don't know.....

[mikemac64]

Exactly what kind of "agent" does this guy want to be? Or does he want to be Force, or MEU, or a friggin' cook? (Marines have to eat).

There is only one way to get the experience you need to answer your very deep questions a Marine: JOIN THE CORPS!!!!!

[agentcg]

Exactly what kind of "agent" does this guy want to be? Or does he want to be Force, or MEU, or a friggin' cook? (Marines have to eat).

I want to go in the CORPS. for collage (looking into a NROTC), but i actually want my career to be in civillian law-enforcement. What ever job i will get in the CORPS. (interested in the Security Forces) is up in the air right now.

[DCH]

Originally posted by agentcg
...What ever job i will get in the CORPS. (interested in the Security Forces) is up in the air right now.

..Well good luck getting those wings then agent.

Sincerely,
DCH

[SGTROCK]

agent cg or whatever Iam not in the mood to reply to you in the tone I would like right now or I might break something,just do me a favor and read less about military stuff and try the Dictionary a little more.It's I and I'am and college.O.K. stud. Go post over at the General Military forum from now on. If you have a specific question for me or any of the fine Marines here and it's not a fucking retarted question we may answer you but DO NOT come back here with "statements" about shit you have no idea of period......I dont like you!!!!!!!!

[agentcg]

I perfectly understand. I really shouldn't be posting at this thread anyway. Also, sorry for the spelling and grammatical errors. I type fast and don't always check for errors.

[RAT]

Originally posted by agentcg
I perfectly understand. I really shouldn't be posting at this thread anyway. Also, sorry for the spelling and grammatical errors. I type fast and don't always check for errors.

Neither do I.

Just a word to the wise. If you are new (which you are) try to do everything right the 1st time. It will not be right. (because you are new) At least try. Take sometime and TRY to the best of your abilities to get it right.

RAT OUT!!!

PS: AAHH FUCK IT LOOK AT THE HUMOR SECTION.

[mac3982]

agentcg stop...listen more talk way less......