College . . . or no?

[Travis Arnold]

I'm in high school right now, and I'm wondering if I should goto college first, or join the Navy right after I graduate. I was thinking I'd goto college 4 years, then go into Navy, so I'd be more able to become an Officer when I'm ready to. Any suggestions?

[Nissan]

Travis this is a pivitol choice in your life...the questions you gotta ask yourself are..."Why do I want to goto college/Navy? What will I gain out of college/Navy? Who am I doing this for?" Those 3 questions should give you teh decision you seek...I rescently had those questions come up in my life...I was accepted to my #1 choice (Norwich University VT) and was really excited..then the Navy came a knocking and what I wanted to do with my life....and when I answered those 3 questions I had a clear cut answer...I wanted to goto college to become a Officer and get that degree for the outside world...What will I gain by college...a degree and the knowledge that I gained there...hey I was doing shit hot right now so why teh Navy? then the 1 that turned it for me...Who am I doing it for?...my parents and family kept telling me I HAD TO goto college and get teh dgree and things like that..eventually it turned into going to college for them..not myself..and thats why I choose the navy..it was my own choice and what I wanted to do...I would learn and trade and get leadership experience..I would get to have fun parachuting shooting diving and all that great stuff...that turned it for me...but that might be the wrong decision for you...it changes for everyone and noone here cna tell you what is better except for you..so make the decision in your own best interest...

[Travis Arnold]

Sounds just like me. I don't want to go to college, I don't like sitting in a classroom learning things that usually have no use in life for me. I want to go into the Navy ASAP. But, if I don't get that degree I can't become an officer. I don't want to be an officer until I've logged a LOT of time and know what I'm doing. I believe that officers should be leaders, and you can't lead well without that experience. The main driving force to go to college is my parents ... the only thing that justifies me to them is school. So, is 4 more boring years of my life worth an officer-ship latter in my career?

[Nissan]

Well Travis you don't have to have a 4 year degree to be a officer...you can get into a program called LDO which stands for Limited Duty Officer..it is a small knife and fork school that will allow you to become a officer in the Navy up to a certain level...so you can spend time enlisted then after some time enlisted you can become a Ensign...its 1 of the options I'm looking at using later on in my carreer....I think there are some others that can give ya better info on the course then I can..but its definetly something to look into.

[Jims]

Don't sell college short. Sure, classes are a pain sometimes, but the extras are pretty nice (chicks). Why not look into the NROTC program. I passed up a shot at a NROTC scholarship because I thought the Academy was a lock. Now I'm sitting here in Boston about to go to OCS, not too pissed about it. There are plenty of ways to get to where you want to be. Ask around alot and make sure whatever you do is for the right reasons.

[blinken]

Travis, college is a win/win situation. Plus it will give you time to decide what you really want to do in life. The Navy will always be there and will always need officers, but college is the best time of your life. I just got my discharge papers last fall and attending school now and its great. But like the other guys said "you have to do what is right for you" Good Luck!

[sax]

i was in the navy for 4 years then i got picked up for rotc

Just keep this in mind...if you don't think you will be fully motivated for college then you will not be fully motivated in learning

sure i could of been successful at college 4 years ago...but now i am actually learning, and learning what I want, not what I thought i wanted

Of course it's gonna be harder to get my BUD/S slot...but that only makes it that much sweeter...knowing that i have some tough comp keeps me motivated 365 days a year

your call bro,

Sax http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/cool.gif

[Mike]

Also think about your major. Engineering and the sciences are better than the social sciences and humanitics (both PC disciplines and anti-military). Find one with a NROTC unit so you can take lcass even if you're not in ROTC. look at http://www.usnews.com and click on education for colleges and majors

[PIMguy]

Travis,

If all college represents to you is "4 more boring years" then I would venture to say you would not make it through 4 years of college. Just like (I'm assuming) if you went into BUD/S with the attitude that it was going to be 6 pointless months of meaningless work, you'd never make it through BUD/S. Commitment is the key to success in anything.
And don't fool yourself about the military (or anything you do). You said that you'd be learning stuff in college that has no use for you in life. I guarantee you'll do a bunch of stuff in the military that'll make you scratch your head and wonder WTF. Each option offers you a trade-off, but it boils down to what are you committed to? Take it or leave it, an opinion formed solely by my own experiences.

[Travis Arnold]

PIMGuy, I'm guessing that I'm not going to be learning pointless stuff in BUD/S and subsequent military schools. They won't be teaching trig if I'm not going to need it. The military dosn't waste time teaching you things that aren't purpose specific. I hope . . .

[DCH]

Mr. Arnold

Understand this.

As an operator in the mil., things can (and occasionally do) go FUBAR- sometimes resulting in courts marshal, Dishon. discharch, etc..resulting in them taking away your hard-earned status.

As a College graduate with a Degree, there is a less likelihood chance that youre bachelors can or will be taken from you. (barring that you don't cheat thru it all)

So, use common sense- would you rather rely on a DEGREE that is YOURS for the keeping, or a STATUS someone else (or something out of your control for that matter) can and may take from you??

$0.02

[PIMguy]

Hey now, Travis, don't set me up to be a target here. I didn't say that they would teach you anything useless in BUD/S. My points were: (1) if you go into anything (college, BUD/S, marriage, etc.) thinking it's useless then it probably will be. So my advice is not to go to college if you think it will be useless. (2) there are some things that you have to do in the military that are pretty damn silly. All I was saying was not to expect everything you experience in the Navy to have a point. AGAIN, I did not say anything about BUD/S being useless. With that said, I'm out. Weapons safe boys.
;~>

[Jay]

I'm going to have to disagree with Mike (no offense) about not taking social science classes. Yes engineering is an important major, if thats what you want to do in the military. But if you want to go SpecOps all of your missions are going to be in foreign countries. You should always know who your enemy is. You can learn this information through history, political science, religion, anthropology, foreign language corses and other social science classes. Alot of the guys discussing China could afford to take some social science classes before they make anymore uninformed posts. "If you know yourself and your enemies, you will be invincible." -Sun Tzu

[Blade1413]

hey travis.. i'm also in that situation.. what i think i'm going to end up doing is going to college and taking the nrotc program... the only problem with this is that i don't have a sure shot at getting into bud/s... if you sign up for the seal challenge when you enlist you get 4 shots at passing the physical and making it into bud/s... after college you have to compete with the rest of the navy...
Hope this helps a little...

[Grant]

Well, there is another option......Go to college, get your degree, and then after college, enlist in the Navy with the SEAL challenge contract. With this option, you will have your degree and also have spot in BUD/s. This may be something you want to consider.
Grant

[Jims]

Last time I checked (a few months ago) there were 50 annual slots for SEAL officers (+/- a few as needed) broken up in the following manner: 20 slots for the Academy, 15 for NROTC and the rest from OCS and various other programs.

I hope this is of some help.

If anyone knows otherwise, please throw out the correct info. Thanks.

[Mike]

to Jay, I mean for the majority of Navy officers (surface, aviation, and submarine). Sure social science degress will be good if you're inintelligence, an FAO, attache, SEAL and other politico-military jobs. But remember mostof the faculty in the social sciences are left-wing. You don't want to spend 2 years listening to anti-military lectures.

to Jims, the academys lot is 15. The last time I checked the selection for career night was 16 slots. I posted the url address on another posting.

[pn]

Everyone sounds left wing if you're extreme right...

Suggesting that one swear off a liberal education for purely political reasons is one of the wackier things I've heard on this board. Were Locke and Jefferson useless losers too?

-pn

(physics/chem)

[Fred]

You must know your enemy to be effective in any actions against him. A liberal arts education is fine preparation for a military career. Studying human interactions/dynamics is as important if not more so to a troop commander than endless formulae and equations.

[1026]

I concur with Fred; I believe people are confusing a liberal arts education with liberal/communist/socialist/Marxist/Leninist ideology.

[Nissan]

Ahhh goto college then enlist with SEAL challenge....easier said then done...If you plan on doing a NROTC program you sign something at year 2 that says I want a commission in teh military when I graduate...(at least at Norwich they do) and I'll tell ya this..they expect you to go in as a Officer..not enlisted...plus if you go in enlisted with that your also gonna have to hit knife and fork school in order to get that commission...So like I said before..go for whats in your best interests and keep your options open..

[Grant]

Nissan,
I said go to college. I never said anything about ROTC.......


Grant

[Grant]

Nissan,
I said go to college. I never said anything about ROTC.......


Grant

[Grant]

Nissan,
I said go to college. I never said anything about ROTC.......


Grant

[Daredevil]

Let me tell you, I graduated from College a few years ago. I've been trying like hell to get an officer slot ever since. SEAL officer slots are one word: COMPETITIVE. I've taken the PFT at Little Creek a few times now. There's this old retired Cheif that still hangs out there named Cahill. He helps out on test day. All these minimums you see simply don't apply when you're trying for an officer slot. If you can't pull in the Swim in 8-9 minutes, do 100 push ups, 100 sit ups, 18 - 20 pull ups and then crank the run out in 9 minutes or less you can forget about it. Alot of other guys that were applying for the officer slots with me have just given up trying for it and enlisted. I think enlisted college educated SEALs are probably becoming more common. All the guys administering the test were telling me that you have to be in that kind of shape if you're an officer at BUD/S because it looks bad if all these young enlisted guys that you're supposed to be leading are kicking your ass in everything. And believe me, from what I saw they can. Whenever we were tested some Nugs (guys waiting to go to BUD/S) would take the test with us and they kicked our ass every turn. One of them did 120 push ups in the two minutes we were given for it. I'm going to try for it one more time and if it's not good enough it's enlistment time for me too.

Look at it this way, a college education can't hurt you. Even if you enlist it will still be something that can benefit you. And you can use that time to try to get into the shape you need to to get an officer slot.

[Jay]

Daredevil, what exactly are the distances in the PT test? What all do you have to do (i.e., run, swim, etc)? I'm going to OCS after college and would like to have a good heads up before I start trying out. THanks for the help.

[Daredevil]

The swim is 500 meters using breaststroke or sidestroke. No goggles are allowed and no stroke where the hands come out of the water is allowed. The run is 1.5 miles, it's in combat boots, bdu bottoms, and a t-shirt. The posted minimum times for the swim is 12:30 and for the run it's 11:30 but, like I said, if you're going for an officer slot and you can't pull the them in in 9 min or less you can forget it.

A recruiter can set it up so that you can take the test as a civilian before you ever join up (I'm a civilian and there was always one or two other civilians there with me). You just need to bring a valid physical and call and let them know. They do the test at Little Creek the 2nd and 4th Wednesday morning every month. You do have to pay your own way though. I'm lucky since I only live a couple hours from Virginia Beach. Some guys came up from as far as Florida.

[E19]

Travis,

You are a youngman who needs to change your attitude. You are the type of guy who applies himself only if you like something. If you don't like something then you blow it off as a waste of time. The sooner you learn that it is you who is wasting your time when you don't apply yourself one hundred percent to the task at hand the more sucessfull you will be at the game of life.
By the way, a solid background in math does come in handy throughout life (civilan & military). I remember someone on this BBS saying something like "You will never regret having a college degree, but you may well regret not earning one". I would say the same would hold true for not learning all you can in high school. You only get out what you put into it. It's your life so use your time wisely...it will pay you big dividends later that you can't even imagine now.

De Oppresso Liber



[This message has been edited by E19 (edited 04-17-2000).]

[Travis Arnold]

E19, it is AMAZING that you are psychic! All I do is post a message and BANG, you are able to tell me what type of person I am without even knowing me! Wow!
I apply myself two hundred percent to what I do. I don't take shortcuts, I don't do shoddy work, I get the job done right the first time. No matter how much work or time it takes, if it needs to be done, I will do it right.
Now let me tell you what kind of person I am: I did some research, and found out how tough it is to qualify as a SEAL officer. It is far harder to be an officer in the SEALs than an enlisted man. So I know that now I have to go to college, get my four year degree, and not only do well, but do better than any one else in any of my classes. I will also now have to double my P.T. efforts, run and swim harder and farther, and wear out my poor firearms with as many rounds as I can lay my hands on. I will have to know all that I can, and more. Why? Because as an officer, I will have ten times the responsibility, and much more work. Now, knowing that it is the harder thing to do, I HAVE to go and do it. It wouldn't be right in my eyes for me to know the challenge, but go the easier route. I will not shy away from the responsibility, the work, or the challenge. I refuse to do anything but take on the toughest, yet smartest challenges I can find and shove the standards for them into the ground, and let my own personal standards take their place.
For some reason you seem to take me as the opposite of the above. Don't judge what you've not seen.

[E19]

Travis,

Not psychic, but can read and comprehend reasonably well. Perhaps it was another
Travis Arnold that posted the messages that
I read above.

To save you some time I copied them below

1. "Sounds just like me. I don't want to go to college, I don't like sitting in a classroom learning things that usually have no use in life for me. I want to go into the Navy ASAP. But, if I don't get that degree I can't become an officer. I don't want to be an officer until I've logged a LOT of time and know what I'm doing. I believe that officers should be leaders, and you can't lead well without that experience. THE MAIN DRIVING FORCE FORCE TO GO TO COLLEGE IS MY PARENTS... the only thing that justifies me to them is school. So, is 4 more boring years of my life worth an officer-ship latter in my career?"

2. "PIMGuy, I'm guessing that I'm not going to be learning pointless stuff in BUD/S and subsequent military schools. They won't be teaching trig if I'm not going to need it. The military dosn't waste time teaching you things that aren't purpose specific. I hope . . ."

[Mike]

Travis, once you finished college, then join the Navy, then join the SEALs, then you can write about what you've been through, rather than just some research or what you've heard or/and see. Don't go to college if your parents tell you. Listen to your heart. College is not for everyone.

[Travis Arnold]

I said it would be BORING and many of the things learned would be USELESS, I did not imply that I would not put my all into it. Just because I don't like it, does not mean I don't go at it with full abandon.

[D-Boy]

Travis,

College is indeed a win-win situation. Go the NROTC route it will pay off big in the long run. I myself are going to be attending NROTC at the University of Colorado at Boulder. It is best to be prepared for any situation that may arise in your life. What if you get injured or some other f'ed up situation occurs you need to be ready if neccasary for the civilian world and the civialian world looks highly upon college degrees. Go to www.cnet.navy.mil (http://www.cnet.navy.mil) for more info on these programs everyone has been talking about. It may be harder to become a SEAL as an Officer, but when has any good SEAL turned down a good challange. What ever decision you end up making make sure it is the right one for you and not the people telling you. Research this as much as possible. Kick Ass and Take Names. .......HOOYAH.

[Nissan]

Travis..heres something I've come to realize rescently...F*** everyones opinion but your own..if ya wanna do it for you do it..if you don't then don't...Just say "F*** you and teh horse you rode in on this is what I'm doing and I don't give 2 shits what you say about my decision, its my life to f*** up if I want to" and leave it at that...its your life do what you want and don't let anyone else decide for you

E19...have fun passing judgement on my post and me in general. I hope you can come up with some interesting reding about me. I also hope you can surpass all the people that have come before you in telling me how I am...

[BK101484]

I am gonna have to agree with Nissan. But I think you have made up your mind about college if you refer to it as 4 more boring years. I am not saying its wrong that you ask other peoples opinion but the decision is up to you.

[Mac679]

Travis,
nobody here is tryin to put you down, but you are getting a lot of different perspectives from folks who've taken all sorts of routes. One benefit of college is the exposure to many different fields of study that you don't have at all or the same in depth exposure to in high school. I've got a slightly different view on this whole thing. I spent two years at college, then left. I'm now in Army DEP waiting to ship this fall. There's a certain SFer who visits SOCNet who recommends finishing college to us SF hopefuls/wannabe's/gonnabe's. His point is valid. More rapid promotions, more responsibility, a little more respect, and a greater degree of education. Some of the things I took at college will definitely help me in the military ( 2 semesters of Russian-which created a bug to learn more, another semester of German-to add to 5 years in Germany and 4 years of HS German, classes in general history and military history, I got into rock climbing, did a 6 day canoeing/camping trip in Canada for Freshman orientation, trained with/instructed the Tae Kwon Do club, and above all made good friends and had fun ). I spent entirely too much time in my dorm and not much time out at parties or hanging out, but I can still say I enjoyed my time at college. I have also made the promise to myself that I will complete college for me, not anyone else. There are lots of things at college that might seem boring, ie general education requirements ( math, english, science, etc. ). Let's take math for example, kinda need it to know how much explosive to use to take down something without killing yourself and your team. Kinda need it to know how much air you have left after say 10 minutes on mixed gas at 4 ATM ( hypothetical situation, I have no experience with mixed gas diving ). See my point, yeah they'll teach you what you need to know, but it might make it easier if you already know how to do it ( that's another thing I did at college, got my open water SCUBA certification, and took golf as a class too http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif ). Keep in mind that during those four years you'll also have time ( as well as gym facilities available to you without an extra charge ) to get into even better shape for BUD/S. Yes I left college, but I also tried it for two years before deciding to leave. I'd say give it a try first, if you don't like it right then fine, enlist for a change of pace, then when your enlistment is up, get your GI Bill and finish up school.
My exceptionally over stretched 2 cents,
Mac

[Travis Arnold]

Just one small problem with that, I plan to make the Navy a LIFETIME commitment, not a short enlistment. I plan to be Navy until they force me out. I also can't waste my parents money "trying" college. If I go, I have to go and get that degree. True college would be fun, but frankly I've not got much time for that kinda fun. :-)

[Mac679]

no problem all, where did I or anyone else say you couldn't re-up after completing college? also, have you given consideration to an injury that forces early retirement from the service on you? what would you do then? also, try it for a couple years then use the GI Bill to finish ( you still get the Bachelor's degree don't you? ); no offense Travis but you've given an awful lot of excuses but not many explanations

it's a mole hill, not a mountain

Mac

[This message has been edited by Mac679 (edited 04-19-2000).]

[RAT]

Travis,

Not to get into a pissing contest with you or anything or sound down on the militery but have you looked at the service as a whole objectly. These are just some observations that I made when I was in the Corps and can apply to all services. 1 if you don't want to study trig how mich fun are you going to have cleaning a pots and pans when it is your time for mess duty, AND EVERYONE GETS SOME TYPE OF DUTY. Most newby's mess deck. Gear cleaning, weapons cleaning, field days that last 2 and 3 days's. A NCO, PO, SNCO, CPO, Officer all telling you what to and not to do. The militery trains 100,000's of new joins each year and every single one of them is tought how to tie there shoe the same way. What about the guyu next to you going to BUD/s who went to college. ie.. Your trying to learn Boyles' law and up all night studying, the guy next to you study physics on college for the last 2 years because he wanted BUD/s too. he goes to bed at 21:30 or does not have stress about that test or the 100's of others there are. If you get horny one night nock up some chick have to support that kid... There are many veriables. Education is the best bet for anything you do. Just give it a little more thought process.
MY .02
RAT OUT!!!!

[Travis Arnold]

Well, discussion is over, I'm going to the damned college. A: I will not ever "knock up some chick". I'm not dumb, or sloppy. B: If I get hurt, I have a contigency plan set up. C: Stop posting on this thread, because I'm going to college. :-)

[This message has been edited by Travis Arnold (edited 04-20-2000).]

[Mike]

Travis, which college? private four years college? Public 4 years college? community college? postsecondary school?
as for A: wait till you want to join a fraternity
B: good for you since most professional football players don't have plan B.
C: well you started it

[DCH]

..I think College is OVERRATED....

[RAT]

I was not STUPID either. The FUCKING RUBBER BROKE, Shit happens. Congrat's on going to college.
Belive me it will pay off in the end.
RAT OUT!!!!!

[Travis Arnold]

Hmm . . . just a thought, but couldn't I AVOID the situation altogether by either not having sex, or getting a vasectomy and wearing a condom for STD protection?