Qatari firefight earns airman a Bronze Star for valor

[Purple36]

By Jennifer H. Svan, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Sunday, January 12, 2003

YOKOTA AIR BASE, Japan — The incident barely caused a stir.

CNN broke the story the same day, Nov. 7, 2001, with all of five sentences on its global Web site.

But for the Yokota airman who saw bullets from an AK-47 rifle sail toward him in slow motion, the surreal firefight changed his life.

Senior Airman Clinton Boyd killed a man. And on Thursday morning, at a ceremony here, he received the Bronze Star for valor, the nation’s fourth-highest combat award.

The act outside Al-Udeid Air Base, Qatar, was more than self-preservation: Boyd potentially saved the lives of 20 Americans, officials said, and in the eyes of one Air Force general, prevented a new terror attack from escalating the nation’s fears on the heels of Sept. 11.

For 30 seconds, it was an intense battle between two men with guns.

“The only thing I thought was I was saving my own life,” Boyd said after the medal ceremony. “It was either me or him.”

President Franklin D. Roosevelt established the Bronze Star Medal in 1944 by executive order. The medal — a red, white and blue ribbon atop a bronze star — is awarded for heroic or meritorious combat achievement or service, not involving aerial flight.

“The Bronze Star recognizes those everyday heroes who become uncommon heroes,” said Col. Mark E. Stearns, commander of the 374th Airlift Wing.

Boyd, 22, appeared stoic while base leaders and 374th Security Forces Squadron members gave him a standing ovation. He tried to ignore the applause, he said later.

The award might lead to swifter promotions or career-building assignments, but Boyd said that day in Qatar changed his life more than the piece of metal now pinned to his uniform.

“The whole idea of killing someone and having to live with it, having no remorse because that man was trying to kill you,” he explained. “I was told after it happened, I would probably break down and cry. It never once crossed my mind.”

In late 2001, the U.S. military started building up Al-Udeid, a remote base in the central Persian Gulf, about 20 miles from Qatar’s capital, Doha.

Members of Yokota’s 374th SFS deployed to Qatar in mid-October, soon after the war on terrorism began. A tent city was raised, and computer monitors, communications gear and intelligence equipment were installed. The base’s primary mission is tanker support for KC-10 and KC-135 aircraft, said Capt. William Barron, who, along with Boyd, was in Yokota’s Security Forces group at Qatar.

Barron was working in the base defense operations center when the call came in: “The gate was under attack.”

More than 200 Security Forces personnel at the base were recalled to duty. “We posted out around the perimeter … and prepared for the worst,” Barron said. “We had no idea what was going on.”

A mile from the base, Boyd and an unarmed Qatari guard stood at a traffic checkpoint. Authorized contractors were permitted to deliver food and water on base. That day, 12 Security Forces troops were in the so-called “search pit” to look in vehicles, while eight U.S. military escorts waited to ride with contractors onto base.

The search area was built a mile away due to logistic difficulties in controlling traffic inside the gate, Barron said.

Boyd had been at his post since 2 in the morning. At 10:30 a.m., he noticed the muzzle of an AK-47 rifle protruding from the driver’s window of a private vehicle that approached him and the guard outside the checkpoint. The 6-foot-6-inch Boyd immediately ducked behind a concrete barrier and drew his M-9 pistol.

The driver began shooting, and Boyd had returned fire when the man left the car and ran toward the Qatari guard. The guard knelt on the ground, with hands over his head, while the attacker shouted in Arabic and held him briefly at gunpoint. The guard then ran off, unharmed.

Boyd said he stopped firing at that point, because he didn’t want to hit the guard.

“The rules of engagement — I didn’t know if he was done firing and he wanted to go,” Boyd said.

But the assailant wasn’t finished: He began moving out from behind the gate shack toward Boyd, all the while firing.

He was “15 feet and closing” from Boyd before he was felled. Boyd unloaded an entire 15-round magazine from his handgun, shooting his attacker six times. The gunman, meanwhile, had reloaded his semiautomatic rifle with a second 30-round magazine during the firefight.

“It would have been better to have an M-16 out there,” Boyd said. A U.S.-Qatar agreement prohibits military members from carrying rifles off base.

“The rounds that we were using, it took six to get him down on the ground,” Boyd said. “I was getting scared. I thought, ‘I don’t know, I’ve only got 30 rounds.’ I just went through a magazine. Finally, he dropped.”

Boyd and his parents, who flew in from the United States, talked about the incident after the medal ceremony.

“One of the things that he told me was that he saw one of the rounds come out of an AK-47 and track all the way at him like it was in slow motion and hit the Jersey barrier where he was firing from,” said Maj. Stan Boyd, an active-duty reservist from Scott Air Force Base, Ill.

“I didn’t hear the gun going off. I just saw the rounds coming at me,” said Airman Boyd. “I just reacted. I didn’t know what happened till after it happened.”

“I’m grateful he was a bad shot,” his mother, Jayne Boyd, said about the gunman.

Qatar officials named the attacker as Abdullah Mubarak Tashal al-Hajiri, a Qatari. The man was said to have been mentally unstable, “but that’s probably just a cover-up,” Boyd said.

Boyd’s parents feared retribution from other attackers after the incident, but Boyd remained in Qatar until March 2002, when his squadron returned to Yokota.

Maj. Gen. Richard A. Mentemeyer, director of mobility forces for Operation Enduring Freedom, commended Boyd in a recent Air Force Times article.

Mentemeyer said, as Barron noted in his speech, that “at a moment when force protection was a constant worry and threats to troops were a nagging fear, even a handful of casualties from a new terror attack could only have inflamed fears further. Instead, the incident quickly faded away.”

Barron added that Qatar’s traffic checkpoint was more fortified “by the time we left.” M-16s were stored in the area, as was an M-60, hidden in a bunker.

Boyd doesn’t know when he’ll return to the desert. He’s been selected for promotion to staff sergeant and soon will start a new assignment at Sembach Air Base, Germany, with the contingency-response group there.

“From a father’s perspective, I’m glad he’s alive and safe, and I hope he doesn’t have to do this again,” Stan Boyd said.

[AMMOTECH]

I'm glad to see a medal of that type go to a man in his shoes (on the ground/in the shit) Vs. some weapons control officer back in the rear on his ass in an air conditioned room.
Some may feel that the award is to high for an Airman just going his job; his job saved the life of others from an enemy while under fire. I say job well done!
I've got co-workers at that base and its good to know that the Security Forces troops are on their toes.
-David

[Bohr Adam]

Damn! M9 vs. Ak-47, that is one situation I hope never to be in! Sounds like this guy did OK - he definitely earned the medal more than the B2 aircrews in MO.

[SATCOM]

Hell, I saw that they recently gave a Bronze Star to a female bus driver in Afghanistan!

[Bohr Adam]

Originally posted by SATCOM
Hell, I saw that they recently gave a Bronze Star to a female bus driver in Afghanistan!

As soon as I read this I had a mental image of Sandra Bullock jumping that ramp in "Speed." I know I'm not the only one!

[AMMOTECH]

Originally posted by Adam White
Damn! M9 vs. Ak-47, that is one situation I hope never to be in! Sounds like this guy did OK - he definitely earned the medal more than the B2 aircrews in MO.

B-2 crews were in the combat zone when they earned their medal. Same with the F-15E crews from North Carolina that provided close air support for a group of SEAL's.

-David

[HmtPD]

Bronze Stars for flying?

Thats odd, the Distinguished Flying Cross was established basically for people who earned the Bronze Star, but were flying.

[Bohr Adam]

Originally posted by HmtPD
Bronze Stars for flying?

Thats odd, the Distinguished Flying Cross was established basically for people who earned the Bronze Star, but were flying.

You beat me to it. The Bronze Star criteria specifically states "not involving aerial flight."

Besides, the story I heard was that the crews on the ground at Whiteman AFB, MO were awarded the medal. I had an AF Officer explain to me that during such missions, airmen often have to work extremely long hours under very stressful conditions. Heck, if that's all that is required for a Bronze Star, I should put half of my company in for one today!

[CombatSp]

B-2 crews getting Bronze Stars is just B.S. ! No wonder the other services complain how easy it is to get medals in the AF. I'm glad that SrA Boyd received the Bronze Star he earned it.

[SN]

I think the B-2 crews getting Bronze Stars is bad info. They would have earned Aerial Achievement Medals, Air Medals, Silver Stars, or Distinguished Flying Cross's for aerial achievements.

The only way a B-2 crewmwmber could earn a Bronze Star is by serving in a ground capacity (staff officer with CJTF180 for example). In that case he would deserve the award just as much as an Army staffer.

[frogstyle]

No offense meant to USAF guys, however, USAF staff probably shit their pants when some airman bagged a bad guy. Im sure they were more than impressed and proud. The AF is undeniably medal crazy.
Especialy if there was any measure of danger.

At SEAL Team or SF getting in a gunfight and winning isnt cause for an award.

Look at Roberts. Had he been AF he would have been nominated for a MOH for certain.

Not hacking on the AF just stating that when you see a bronze star on an AF guy it means one thing and it is entirely different when worn by Ranger, SF, SEAL.

Good for the kid. He did a great job.

[magician]

It is worthwhile to focus on the engagement range, and the number of rounds fired.

It is also useful to consider how many rounds the young Airman needed to finally down the bad guy. It isn't easy to hold your ground and fire at an onrushing bad guy when you are outgunned like that. It is the right thing to do, of course, but if you aren't overtrained to do it to the point where it is reflexive and beyond, you could end up in a world of hurt.

Definitely something to think about as you train your own young guns. Concentrate on the basics, but also put them through quick kill scenarios where they have to fire or hold-fire based on good target ID. This kid did great when you consider he had the presence of mind to remember his ROE, and did not just fire up his counterpart when the poor guy kneeled.

In fact, the behavior of the Airman's counterpart bears some scrutiny. It gives insight into the differences between cultures, not to mention training and qualifications.

A very good case study, on a number of levels.

Thanks for sharing it.

[SN]

Frogstyle,

I have to disagree with you on this one.

This guy wasn't part of a team, he was a lone sentry. I would think that a 12 man ODA would be able to take a single rifle toting gunman out with little difficulty. This guys ROE were tighter then those in A-stan.

As far as the AF upping awards, look at the citations for the Controller and PJ killed. Many (myself included think the PJ deserved higher).

I will agree that the AF can be fairly liberal with awards, but the Army takes 1st place in this category. I witnessed an awards ceremony where an ArCom and two AAM's were presented to individuals for decorating the CG's office.

XVIII Abn Corps is running the show in A-stan, they established the current awards criteria, Maj and above, MSG and above get BSM's unless it is a valor award. Company Grade O's and NCO get ArCom, everyone else gets an AAM.

I think it's wrong, but I'm not the XVIII Abn Corps CG.

[CombatSp]

You really can't compare the two. Spec Ops are more geared toward action instead of reaction. The amount of weapons training is also a factor. AF cops don't get to shoot as many rounds in their careers as do Spec Ops do in a year. It's also different from standing post when day after day nothing happens. Then all of a sudden a gunman pulls up and starts blasting away at you. It's interesting to note that SrA Brown in 94 only received the Airman's Medal for stopping a gunman armed with a MK90 rifle. Yes one was stateside and the other was overseas in a war time situation. They were both pretty much the same act though.

[AMMOTECH]

Originally posted by HmtPD
Bronze Stars for flying?

Thats odd, the Distinguished Flying Cross was established basically for people who earned the Bronze Star, but were flying.

The award was a Silver Star.

http://www2.acc.af.mil/accnews/dec02/02414.html

SEYMOUR JOHNSON AIR FORCE BASE, N.C. (ACCNS) -- A weapons systems officer here received a Silver Star Wednesday for his participation in the battle of Roberts Ridge during Operation Anaconda.

The award came exactly eight months to the day Capt. Chris Russell and three other men from the 335th Fighter Squadron came under intense enemy fire while providing close air support to Army and Air Force ground troops during the battle.

Using air-to-ground methods not usually associated with F-15Es, Captain Russell and his pilot, Capt. Kirk Rieckhoff, employed tactics normally seen performed by A-10s.

Col. Rick Rosborg, 4th Fighter Wing commander, presented the medal to Captain Russell in a small ceremony at the squadron in front of the captain’s wife and squadron-mates.

“This is a huge, huge award,” the colonel said. “It speaks highly of [Russell]; about his performance with conspicuous gallantry.”

Captain Russell’s Silver Star comes as result of his efforts as part of a two-ship F-15E flight that saved the lives of American service members March 4. The two F-15Es were the first aircraft on the scene after a rescue attempt for Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Neil Roberts failed. Petty Officer Roberts was a Navy SEAL who fell from his helicopter amidst enemy ground fire during an insertion into the Shahi Kot Valley region of Afghanistan.

According to the citation, Captain Russell’s flight, call sign Twister 52, made contact with an American ground forward air controlling team that was taking fire from enemy troops 75 meters away. The ground team restricted Twister flight to strafe passes due to a “danger close” condition. This condition meant friendly troops were within minimal risk distances of injury or death from friendly weapons on enemy locations.

“I didn’t realize they had taken so many casualties,” Captain Russell said about his initial reaction to the situation.

Twister flight made six strafe passes while firing 20-mm rounds from an altitude of 1,500 feet over the target area. This was well within the threat zone of small arms fire and surface to air missiles. The ground team reported enemy fire was suppressed on each pass, but requested more passes to kill steadily increasing numbers of reinforced Taliban and al Qaeda forces.

Out of 20-mm ammunition, Twister 51, the aircraft manned by Maj. Chris Short and Lt. Col. Jim Fairchild, became the airborne forward air controller and targeted Captain Russell’s jet on four additional low-altitude strafe passes. Due to radio failure, Twister 51 then passed the tactical lead to Captain Russell’s aircraft. With the ground team’s concurrence, Twister flight began employing laser-guided bombs. The two aircrews attempted to guide each successive bomb closer to enemy forces without injuring American service members. The aircrews were able to drop bombs as close as 200 meters from friendly forces.

Captain Russell and his team remained on station for five hours, two hours beyond the scheduled coverage time, resulting in a combat sortie more than 12 hours long. By inflicting direct losses to enemy forces while subjecting himself to enemy fire, Captain Russell helped pave the way for the eventual rescue of 23 American service members.

Captain Russell said he wasn’t the only hero that day.

“The real heroes were the guys on the ground that day,” he said. “Seven guys died on that mountain that day.”

The other three crewmembers, Captain Rieckhoff, Major Short and Colonel Fairchild, will also eventually receive Silver Stars.

There have been only six Silver Stars awarded to F-15E Strike Eagle aircrew members. All six have been from the 335th FS, said Lt. Col. Spanky Dennis, the 335th FS commander.

The Air Force Cross and the Medal of Honor are the only two medals earned for gallantry that rank higher than the Silver Star.

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by frogstyle
No offense meant to USAF guys, however, USAF staff probably shit their pants when some airman bagged a bad guy. Im sure they were more than impressed and proud. The AF is undeniably medal crazy.
Especialy if there was any measure of danger.

At SEAL Team or SF getting in a gunfight and winning isnt cause for an award.

Look at Roberts. Had he been AF he would have been nominated for a MOH for certain.

Not hacking on the AF just stating that when you see a bronze star on an AF guy it means one thing and it is entirely different when worn by Ranger, SF, SEAL.

Good for the kid. He did a great job.

Well, I'm glad you don't mean to be offensive!

I find this statement pretty offensive, as the AF guys that went in to get him (Chapman, who was found dead next to him) was only awarded an AFC... Cunningham the PJ who died with the SECOND crew that went in for retrieval got an AF Cross, Vance got a Silver Star, and Miller and Brown got Bronze Stars with V's...

Kinda blows your AF Medal theory all to shit now doesn't it

I'm kinda skeptical that you as a SEAL (who should know the particulars of that mission) would make that statement.

But I will agree on one thing... Chapman SHOULD have gotten an MoH!

JMHO

HK

[frogstyle]

It didnt blow my theory at all. The heros you mentioned are all AFSOC. Not USAF clerks and booger pickers. SOF are held to a higher standard or performance. Heroism is a daily occurance.

Clearly youre offended .. Let me pour you some Cocoa and get you a blankie.

Now wash the sand outta your clit.

[Hotmike]

Obviously not a REAL SEAL... but I'm sure you play one on TV!

[frogstyle]

Remember they are only Special Operations Aircraft when we get on them, until then? Its a fuckin helicopter.

[magician]

Can I have some cocoa, too? I already have a woobie.

:)

[Ace]

Originally posted by Hotmike
I find this statement pretty offensive,

You shouldn't be, for the simple fact that it's true. The Air Force (from what I've been told) has just this attitude. If it's a guy from AFSOC "he was just doing his job" as noted by the awards given by members involved in Afghanistan.
If you’re not in AFSOC.......well, you know the deal.


Originally posted by frogstyle
Remember they are only Special Operations Aircraft when we get on them, until then? Its a fuckin helicopter.

Don't fall off that horse, it may leave a mark :p , let's see.....Mount Hope III, or the ship Iran Ajr to name a few.

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by frogstyle
Remember they are only Special Operations Aircraft when we get on them, until then? Its a fuckin helicopter.

Well, aren't You just the most "Special" guy in the world?

You better stop believing all the hype boy... It's counter-productive to living in the real world.

whats your real job? Admin clerk for a SEAL unit?

[Ace]

Originally posted by Hotmike
whats your real job? Admin clerk for a SEAL unit?

He is who he claims, let's not get carried away with this.

[NewportBarGuy]

Originally posted by Hotmike
Obviously not a REAL SEAL... but I'm sure you play one on TV!

He does not drink Busch Beer... 'nuff said...

[frogstyle]

Hotmike,

Lets not get carried away.

Its a pretty solid fact that the USAF hands out copiuos amounts of awards. Nothing wrong with it, its a known fact.

I believe the F15 drivers who were exposed to less than 8 seconds of smll arms fire recieved Silver Stars?. With inbound speeds of 500 knots and three passes, thats not alot of flak.

They saved lives. They put steel on target to save mens lives. Very honorable, and very much their jobs. Heroes? Probably to the boys who needed he CAS.

Did all of the guys on the ground who were stuck in that meatgrinder for hours recieve Silver Stars? Nope. They were doing their jobs as well. The men who acted out in heroics have been decorated. As seen fit by the SOF community who wrote the citations.

I believe that the regular services have a very different measure of exceptional performance and duty.

DO we need to discuss the USAF E-8-9's who did a powerpoint on how miserable Afghanistan was because the sand got in their coffee and ruined lunch a couple times?

Im standing down from the insults, and so are you.

[Hotmike]

Consider my clit cleansed!

I could use another cup of cocoa though!

[frogstyle]

I attempted to be civil. As always its a wasted effort on a certified 20 year turd.

What you confused for contempt is actualy a thorough understanding of the differences between services. The award policies especialy.

Your delusional if you honestly cant accept that there are serious differences in the awards policies between services and especialy the SOF community.

Your statement "war is a Team effort" is correct. I never said anything else. We are diecussing the merit of a heroism citation nothing more. I only showed contempt for silly citations that permeate the USAF. It is what it is.

In fact its quite apparent that you have a chip on your shoulder. Maybe "hero envy"? Sorry if I made you feel bad. Keep your chin up.

"ego centric".... I like that...

Your faggoty half assed attempts to belittle my service are laughable, if only they were funny.

[Hotmike]

Damn... there you go with that "professionalism" thing again.

"Your faggoty half assed attempts to belittle my service are laughable, if only they were funny."

It's not an attempt to belittle your service, to the contrary, I have nothing but respect for the Naval Special Warfare Operators I've met and worked with over my 20 "turd" years... It's just YOU and the attitude you have about everyone but YOU.

I fully understand the disparities between the services and the way they write decorations... But like I would always tell my support troops when they would complain about all the bennies my operators got... Feel free to cross-train, and you can have all those bennies too... just quit crying about it.

You are an immature, unprofessional malcontent, and an embarrassment to to the Navy. Grow up! Feel free to email me with your .mil address, and we can discuss it further.

[frogstyle]

Feel free to email me with your .mil address, and we can discuss it further. [/B][/QUOTE]


Ahhh, Do you think your paygrade may intimidate me? I assume youre at Hurlburt. Thats swell fuckball.

You, are an embarrassment. Certified turdburgler.

As for giving you my .mil addy? Feel free to PM me yours. In fact Ill call your office and tell you your full of shit.

Remember, I'm an equal opportunity asskicker. I dont discriminate based on rank, race, or religion.

You've been an whiny bitch since your feelings were hurt by my post. Im assuming you may have been a recipient of some desk bound heroism awards?

[Hotmike]

"Your Honor... the Defense rests".

Your Namecalling and sophmoronic behaviors say a lot about your maturity level... I'll bring it up with Master Chief Mac the next time we work the Range... I'm sure he'll come up with the same conclusion... You sure don't sound like a Professional to me.

[frogstyle]

[I'll bring it up with Master Chief Mac the next time we work the Range... I'm sure he'll come up with the same conclusion... You sure don't sound like a Professional to me. [/B][/QUOTE]


You my friend ,are a pussy.

"ill tell your dad" Sounds like you havent changed much since you were a crybaby child.

[Hotmike]

*Yawn* I must go take a dump now... You have officially bored the shit out of me!

[frogstyle]

Hahaha... Finaly you made a post without a gallon of whine.

[magician]

Uh, excuse me.

This isn't really any of my business, but I have a bad habit of running to the sound of gunfire. Haven't been able to break myself of it.

Anyway....



You are an immature, unprofessional malcontent, and an embarrassment to to the Navy. Grow up! Feel free to email me with your .mil address, and we can discuss it further.



Is this bad? I kind of like unprofessional malcontents, especially when they are extremely competent in the arts of war like my pal, froggie.

:)

FWIW, I think your words are fairly descriptive of myself, too.

I'm 43 going on 14, I no longer give a flying fuck and rarely hesitate to couch my language in diplomatic terms.

I could certainly be considered an embarrassment to the Navy since I never served a day in that service.

I think those stupid white soup bowl hats sailors wear are fucking retarded, and I find the idea of a service that has to issue so many goddamned uniforms disturbing.

I also crunched my balls on the SEAL obstacle course in Coronado one time (in band camp).

I also seem to remember doing some log drills and stuff in the surf there....and I remember getting very, very drunk somewhere downtown.

Very unprofessional.

:)

I'll step back out of the line of fire, now. Thanks for reading.

(Talking about cocoa....I am changing my .sig. )

[frogstyle]

I embarrass myself all the time.:rolleyes:

Im sorry HOTMIKE.


Maybe Ill turn over a new leaf for you. In fact maybe Ill get a haircut and polish my boots...


Thats it dawgoneit... Im gonna square myself away. Maybe apply for a commission someday even...


Thanks HOTMIKE!

[Special Forces]

As a noted critic of the USAF, and their awards system. let me just say that I am with Froggie on this one.

If we have to run to Daddy, I think I have a couple of report cards around here signed by the current Commander, AFSOC, if that would help.

Hotmike, you cred checking Special Operators here?

TR

[Cujo]

this makes for some entertaining night reading. Hotmike, you're killin' me. Why are you letting a bunch of old, crusty, used-to-be's bother you?

Wasn't this tread about a skycop to begin with?

[mtm]

i bet a bottle of boone's farm and five bucks, that frogstyle could make hotcunt cry like a bitch in front of his mother and estranged father within 2 minutes

[Guy]

Originally posted by Hotmike
*Yawn* I must go take a dump now... You have officially bored the shit out of me!

My name is Guy Kevin Jones...show your creds!

[C.Todd]

I don't know who you are Hotmike, but around here longevity isn't a cred. So next time, before you get all beat out of shape and you start running off at the mouth because frogstyle said something we all know has some truth to it, you’d be better served if you took a knee and checked your six. Around here, a resume touting the glories of twenty years of fluorescent lighting and roofs that don’t leak doesn’t mean much.

[Sharky]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Why are you letting a bunch of old, crusty, used-to-be's bother you?



Why don't you point one out, Killer? There's some old crusty still-doing-it-every-fucking-day's on here who might take a bite out of your ass. If you are a civilian you should probably just shut the fuck up. If you're active duty, you should REALLY shut the fuck up.

[Hotmike]

20 Year TACP, 12 of those years on Army and Marine bases eating, sleeping, shitting and fighting with the Infantry. I agree that the AF has taken "Decoration Inflation" to a fine art, but there are still a majority of people in the AF who have "earned" their Awards and Decs, and to state otherwise because you're focused on isolated incidents that have been touted in the press is nothing more than "Service Bashing".

This thread was started about a kid who had the sack to go up against an AK-47 with an M-9. A kid who normally stands a post, where nothing ever happens... But when something did happen, he reacted, and came out on top. He earned his medal

Frogstyle changed the intent of the post to Air Force doesn't deserve "valorous" awards like I do. I disagree with that. (While I agree that Aircrew shouldn't be getting BSM/V in lieu of DFCs or Air Medals, but that's another thread).

The Air Force has it's job to do... It's job has been more critical in the past 15 years than ever before... Yet the other Three branches still want to lump us in with the Coast Guard as "Second Class Warriors". Maybe next time the US goes to war, you should go it alone, and leave the Air Force behind.

[Sharky]

I have read this whole thread three times and I still don't see where Frogstyle is wrong. He gave the kid kudo's for waxing the bad guy. I'm proud of him too. He just pointed out that he didn't think the act was quite deserving of a Bronze Star. It's a cultural difference. That's all it is, and as far as I could tell, that's all he was saying. In the Air Force, he's a hero and gets a Bronze Star, in a lot of other places he would have gotten not much more than some criticism on his shot grouping. 20 years TACP? Hey, I respect the hell outta that. You guys do good work. You are hands down the best at what you do. But you seem to have got your feelings hurt over a criticism of the AF's medal policy that is obviously fucked up. You started the sarcastic shit and you got some back. You dish it out, you better look for return fire. If you've been in this game for twenty years you should know that. Suck it up and drive on.

[Hotmike]

Sharky,
Point taken, but what "Got" me was this statement:

"Not hacking on the AF just stating that when you see a bronze star on an AF guy it means one thing and it is entirely different when worn by Ranger, SF, SEAL."

There are too many Controllers (both CCT and TACP) wearing that star (and Silver Stars) for that statement to go unchecked. (IMO)...

Then when he rolled in with the childish comments afterward... well, that mindset doesn't represent the NSW guys that I've worked with over the years... Granted, he doesn't know my background, and I don't know his, but his statements just didn't come across as "authentic" as a SEAL... If you, Guy and Reaper are vouching for him, that's good enough for me. (hell, all we need now is Tack, Hazen and Tracey over here, and we'll have the whole SOCNET Mafia in his corner, and I am intimately familiar with the METT-T of that battlefield, and I ain't gettin into that scrap).

I discussed the "thread" with a counterpart down here yesterday, and he said "I avoid places like that like the plague, because of shit like that". Maybe my thin skin in this instance is a classic example.

Frogstyle, I no longer have reservations about your background, just your "generalization" of all AF BSM wearers. But you have earned your RIGHT to make that generalization.

Bowing out gracefully with a clean clit, warm blankie and fresh cup of cocoa

[SN]

Sharkey,

I have to disagree with you on one point. The general discussion is that he got the BSM because he is USAF. I am willing to bet that if he was a Navy guy in say, Bahrain, that the Navy would have awarded the same medal.

I spent most of the last six years on a Navy Installation, and I can tell you (first hand) that the non SOF Navy has increased it's medal production.

but, we still don't rack em up as fast as the Army.

[Sharky]

Originally posted by Hotmike
Sharky,
Point taken, but what "Got" me was this statement:

"Not hacking on the AF just stating that when you see a bronze star on an AF guy it means one thing and it is entirely different when worn by Ranger, SF, SEAL."

There are too many Controllers (both CCT and TACP) wearing that star (and Silver Stars) for that statement to go unchecked. (IMO)...


That is definitely true. The controllers are right there in the dirt with the rest. Kind of like Ace said, If you are AFSOC, you're just doing your job. In the rest of the AF you're a hero. That could probably be said of all the services. To me, it cheapens the Medal. I also dont agree with the statement that the Army or Navy would have given him the BS just like the AF did. In support units it might happen, but in the majority of the Combat Arms units in the Army, I doubt it.

One of my best friends received the BS posthumously. He was in the act of maneuvering on a building, under enemy fire, when he was cut down by a little-bird from the 160th in a blue on blue.

Another of my best friends was pinned down along with two squads by enemy fire from a multi-story building. He sprinted across a large open area under fire, alone, with an M-60 Machine gun and single handedly cleared the building. With an M60. I never heard for sure, but was told that he killed twelve enemy soldiers in that building. He received a BS.

To me, that is what those medals are for and I think that's what Frogstyle was trying to convey. I don't think he intentionally lumped AFSOC in with the rest of the AF.

[Cujo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sharky
[B]Why don't you point one out, Killer? There's some old crusty still-doing-it-every-fucking-day's on here who might take a bite out of your ass.


ANYONE can talk a big game online, tough guy.


On to things that matter. I have to agree with the ROMAD and Weather troop. This is all about a sentry who mans his post every day and nothing happens. One day he was attacked by a guy with an AK 47, and ending up winning the battle with a 9mm. He overcame the odds, so pissing on his merit by degrading the AF medal system makes me question the worth of most of the so-called "quiet professionals" here.

[Sharky]

Tough guy? Me? Naaah......I'm sure I'm not nearly so tough as you, "MasterCujo". I'm sure you have been more places, done more things and killed more people than I could dream about. I'm sure I wont sleep well tonight worried about the "MasterCujo" out there somewhere waiting for me........LOL In other words dude, grow up or fuck off. I couldn't care less which you choose. If you're looking for me I'm in Orlando, FL and I dearly love getting my ass kicked.

[Sharky]

Hmmmmm......an Air Force Security Forces K9 handler........now I'm really fucking scared. You guys are stone cold killers. Don't hurt me, please. (((yawn)))

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by magician
I kind of like unprofessional malcontents, especially when they are extremely competent in the arts of war like my pal, froggie.


FWIW, I think your words are fairly descriptive of myself, too.

I'm 43 going on 14, I no longer give a flying fuck and rarely hesitate to couch my language in diplomatic terms.

I could certainly be considered an embarrassment to the Navy since I never served a day in that service.

I think those stupid white soup bowl hats sailors wear are fucking retarded, and I find the idea of a service that has to issue so many goddamned uniforms disturbing.

I also crunched my balls on the SEAL obstacle course in Coronado one time (in band camp).

I also seem to remember doing some log drills and stuff in the surf there....and I remember getting very, very drunk somewhere downtown.

Very unprofessional.


Magic,
How many times do I have to ask you to quit using the summary of my resume in your posts? That's pleger..uh, pladgerism... uh copying.

The hats are fucked up, but don't you just luuuv those bell-bottomed pants. I bought a pair at the the RODMAN PX and tye-dyed them - now I wear them on '70's night at Mr. Babilla.

[Cujo]

Sounds like someone needs a hug. Go ask one of your "Ranger-Buddies". Never threatened shut you up, but that sounds like an invitation. Still, I won't degrade ya online. You see, men do that kind of stuff on a face to face basis. Alas, I forgot. You're John J. Rambo, whose dossier includes bragging about killing loads of people(what kind of "professional" does that?), and being all over the world(FTX's don't count, schmuckatelli).

Wow, you really put me in my place...

[NewportBarGuy]

That is not of equitable benefit...

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by NewportBarGuy
That is not of equitable benefit...

Most definitely not.

[Doogie320]

NBG,

Concur. I think I'd like to go into someone's house and spout off. Yeah, that's a good idea...:rolleyes:

I want to be like the AF commo guys that I worked with: I want to leave my shift 90 minutes early, leave equipment including loaded COMSEC devices unsecured, and go to town. When my tour is over I'll also get an ARCOM for my efforts.

Getting into a nut-roll about medals isn't very productive. Support folks in all branches receive, not earn, higher awards than their door-kicking counterparts. Part of it is a "Keeping up wiht the Jones'" attitude. The award system is broke, and it will not be fixed anytime soon. SOF support troops tend to have a higher standard than other support troops (they should) but not as high as the door-kicking folks that they work for.

BTAR

[Sharky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MasterCujo
Never threatened shut you up, but that sounds like an invitation. Still, I won't degrade ya online. You see, men do that kind of stuff on a face to face basis.

Exactly why I let you know I'm in Orlando, stud. You're most definitely invited.


Since NOONE I've ever known that claimed to be a "professional" glorifies killing ANYONE, whether it's to save their neck or not, I doubt you've even squeezed the trigger.

Like I said, I'm sure you have much more experience than I do, you know a lot more professionals than I do and I'm sure you have squeezed a lot more triggers than I ever have so I'll defer to your vast experience in this matter and let the viewers judge for themselves whether or not I glorified killing.

So as you sit yer fat arse in your chair, balancing that can of beer on your distended belly, pass me one.

Yeah, Rangers are well known for being fat-asses. Someday we will aspire to be the PT studs that are so prevalent within the AF dog handling community. I think I'll go have some bon-bons with my beer if I can get my fat ass out of my chair.

[Special Forces]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sharky
[B]Why don't you point one out, Killer? There's some old crusty still-doing-it-every-fucking-day's on here who might take a bite out of your ass.


ANYONE can talk a big game online, tough guy.


On to things that matter. I have to agree with the ROMAD and Weather troop. This is all about a sentry who mans his post every day and nothing happens. One day he was attacked by a guy with an AK 47, and ending up winning the battle with a 9mm. He overcame the odds, so pissing on his merit by degrading the AF medal system makes me question the worth of most of the so-called "quiet professionals" here.

MC:

You are on thin ice. I have more time in hot places than you do in a t-shirt and am still on AD in SF.

I am not just online, but real and in the flesh, monkey handler.

You get up to Bragg, or heck, I'll drive across post to Pope, you can talk that smack to my face and we can do the dance.

Anything else smart to say, kid? I sense an ejection seat ride for you very shortly here, if you remain disrespectful to your elders and no doubt, betters.

Oh, yeah. Have a nice day.

TR

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by The Reaper
MC:

You are on thin ice. I have more time in hot placxes than you do in a t-shirt and am still on AD in SF.

I am not just onli9ne, but real

I can testify....

[Cujo]

Someday we will aspire to be the PT studs that are so prevalent within the AF dog handling community.

Heh. I'll be heading to Indian Springs to see if I get my go for Benning soon. As for PT, I SEVERELY DOUBT that you alone have what it takes to out PT me, and I'm just a "gate guard". However, I will not resort to "my dad is tougher than your dad" crap. Sigh...gotta a ruck to pack.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Someday we will aspire to be the PT studs that are so prevalent within the AF dog handling community.

Huh?

[Doogie320]

"What we have here is.... a failure to communicate."

I think that the only reason this pile isn't any bigger is that it is Friday.

BTAR

[Sharky]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Alas, I forgot. You're John J. Rambo, whose dossier includes bragging about killing loads of people(what kind of "professional" does that?), and being all over the world(FTX's don't count, schmuckatelli).

Wow, you really put me in my place...


Sorry.....I just cant remember bragging about killing anything or anybody. None of my posts are edited so why dont you refresh my memory. I did say that a good friend of mine killed twelve or so and was awarded the BS. If that offends you then maybe you should stick with what you know. Rangers kill people. Bad guy people. That's what they're there for. You, well.......you do whatever dog handlers do in the AF. I'm sure you're good at it. But, you obviously have no concept of who the people on this board are or what we are all about and you never will. While Hotmike and I may disagree, I consider him a brother warrior and we'll work it out between us as brothers without your comments. So, go do whatever it is you do and leave us fat beer-drinking SOF types in peace.

John J. Rambo aka Schmuckatelli signing off and going on a fishing FTX now.

[Cujo]

Sigh, here we go again, Sharky. Looks like I'll have to shut a lot of guys up in Benning when I get there, and that should be soon, hopefully. If they all have your personality, it'll be fun smokin' em. They only way they'll smoke me is if they start with one guy and when he gets tired, they bring in another. Even then, I'm skeptical...

[Sharky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MasterCujo
Heh. I'll be heading to Indian Springs to see if I get my go for Benning soon.


LOL.....why? You wanna learn how to be a fat beer-drinking Ranger? Wait......I thought? Naaaah....never mind. Let me know when you'll be there.....LOL


As for PT, I SEVERELY DOUBT that you alone have what it takes to out PT me


I'm sure you're correct. But, I keep trying and someday I'll be tough too.


Reaper, can I get a hug?

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Sigh, here we go again, Sharky. Looks like I'll have to shut a lot of guys up in Benning when I get there, and that should be soon, hopefully. If they all have your personality, it'll be fun smokin' em. They only way they'll smoke me is if they start with one guy and when he gets tired, they bring in another. Even then, I'm skeptical...

What are you, like 12? Even I wouldn't say some shit like that and everybody KNOWS I'm crazy. Shut a lot of guys up at Benning? Now I know you're not a member of the community. Go play outside with your friends.

[Cujo]

Originally posted by The Reaper
MC:


I am not just online, but real and in the flesh

TR


Well, I'd certainly hope so...

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by Sharky
In the Air Force, he's a hero and gets a Bronze Star, in a lot of other places he would have gotten not much more than some criticism on his shot grouping.


now THAT is a classic line!

HK

[Sharky]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Sigh, here we go again, Sharky. Looks like I'll have to shut a lot of guys up in Benning when I get there, and that should be soon, hopefully. If they all have your personality, it'll be fun smokin' em. They only way they'll smoke me is if they start with one guy and when he gets tired, they bring in another. Even then, I'm skeptical...



LOL......look out Delta.....here he comes.......dragging the dog along behind him. Hey hotmike, where'd you get this guy?

[Cujo]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Now I know you're not a member of the community.

Never said I was. But hey, this is an SP thread, and nothing's stopping you, so...

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Never said I was. But hey, this is an SP thread, and nothing's stopping you, so...

Stopping me from what?

[Narcosis]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Sigh, here we go again, Sharky. Looks like I'll have to shut a lot of guys up in Benning when I get there, and that should be soon, hopefully. If they all have your personality, it'll be fun smokin' em. They only way they'll smoke me is if they start with one guy and when he gets tired, they bring in another. Even then, I'm skeptical...

Excuse me for poking my head in here, but I’m trying to follow along. Are you saying that you are leaving the Air Force to join the Army and make a go at becoming a Ranger?

[Cujo]

Originally posted by Sharky
LOL......look out Delta.....here he comes.......dragging the dog along behind him. Hey hotmike, where'd you get this guy?


Cute, Sharky. I guess you gotta lick your wounds somehow...

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by Sharky
LOL......look out Delta.....here he comes.......dragging the dog along behind him. Hey hotmike, where'd you get this guy?


er... um... well... uh...

Check this out!

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16057

He also has a problem with TACPs... Can I disclaim him now?

Sorry Sharky

[Cujo]

Originally posted by Narcosis
Excuse me for poking my head in here, but I’m trying to follow along. Are you saying that you are leaving the Air Force to join the Army and make a go at becoming a Ranger?


No, sir. Just getting ready for Pre-ranger. If I get a go, I'll be heading to Benning. I will still be in the AF.
I have respect for the Ranger community. They do an outstanding job-both down-range and here at home. But sometimes bad apples such as sharky, who love to mess with the AF as a whole by degrading our so-called flawed medal system, are just itching to be proven wrong. Nothing against you or anyone else.

And, Hotmike isn't on my side. I don't have a problem with him, either. As an AF trooper, whether he's stationed at an AF base or not--and he's not--i just gave him a little cover fire from non-AF troops who seem to have a problem with those in the service who get the decs they deserve...

[Sharky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotmike
er... um... well... uh...


enough said......every service has them. Don't worry about it.

He also has a problem with TACPs...

Yeah. I did a search on his posts. He had 19 at the time and not a single one that he wasn't stirring shit or being a crybaby. I'm sure his "peers" (as in peered-out) at Benning will love his attitude....LOL

Can I disclaim him now?

Absolutely.

Sorry Sharky

LOL.....no sweat.

[Cujo]

Oh, and Sharky...

As far as fat arsed, beer drinking distended bellies, you've got damn near 5000 posts. Seems to me the only bivouac you do is right next to your desk...Next!!

[Sharky]

Yeah.....that's one of the joys of being an admin, that I get to come on here in my spare time and police up idiots like you. As for what I do.....You, as an SP are not cleared to know what I do, but, in general terms, I do CT. Every day. I work with people every day that you can only read about. I've got more time under canopy than you have in long pants, junior. There are a very few people on here who know who I am that can verify that for you if you like. I think that Sneaky said it best, you're not part of this community and you never will be because you dont have what it takes. You never have and you never will. So, run along now and play with your dog. Your mission of making a total ass of yourself and embarrassing your AF colleagues is accomplished. Next....

[Narcosis]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
No, sir. Just getting ready for Pre-ranger. If I get a go, I'll be heading to Benning. I will still be in the AF.
I have respect for the Ranger community. They do an outstanding job-both down-range and here at home. But sometimes bad apples such as sharky, who love to mess with the AF as a whole by degrading our so-called flawed medal system, are just itching to be proven wrong. Nothing against you or anyone else.

And, Hotmike isn't on my side. I don't have a problem with him, either. As an AF trooper, whether he's stationed at an AF base or not--and he's not--i just gave him a little cover fire from non-AF troops who seem to have a problem with those in the service who get the decs they deserve...

I wish you well. While intra service rivalry shouldn’t be encouraged it is to be expected. I was reading some of your other posts and my advice (for what it’s worth) is to not take things so personally.

In order to be successful in anything you do you must be happy and confident with yourself. Take pride in the job you do and don’t count on others to constantly reassure you. Know that your job, like every other job in the service, is an important one. If you do get to Ranger school I would almost guarantee you that you will get razzed for not being Army. You are going to have to deal with it.

Now……back to my cocoa.

[MK19 (mod 3)]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
No, sir. Just getting ready for Pre-ranger. If I get a go, I'll be heading to Benning.

I sincerely hope you're making this up. If not, your an idiot. Have you never heard of the good ole boy system. Between those of us Rangers on this site we could probably make about 5 phone calls and we will have contacted most of the Senior Ranger School Cadre. How many AF dog handler types you think go to Ranger School ( Why the fuck are you going to Ranger School....MY bullshit meters way up on this one?). If you think this is not how the system works you're naive. If you're not wanted to pass, you will NOT pass. And I guarantee talking shit to a Fellow Ranger on a site well known to be frequented by more than 100 Rangers (Couple RI's from School) is probably one of the best ways to No Go yourself right from the get go.

My Phone Call: 1SG M#### There's a AF dog handler preparing for Ranger School....he does not deserve his TAB.

1SG M: Roger that, good Copy.

If you think this is bullshit...please try me...

I suggest an apology...If not, we either know your a poser, or that you're definitely not going to pass Ranger School...because friend, that School doesn't have a damn thing to do with PT. PT doesn't mean shit.. You'll probably quit...Your attitude fits the profile.

[Cujo]

Originally posted by Narcosis
I wish you well. While intra service rivalry shouldn’t be encouraged it is to be expected. I was reading some of your other posts and my advice (for what it’s worth) is to not take things so personally.

In order to be successful in anything you do you must be happy and confident with yourself. Take pride in the job you do and don’t count on others to constantly reassure you. Know that your job, like every other job in the service, is an important one. If you do get to Ranger school I would almost guarantee you that you will get razzed for not being Army. You are going to have to deal with it.

Now……back to my cocoa.

Thanks, Narcosis. I already know what being Razzed by the Army is like from being at Fort Campbell last year. As far as knowing the job, I'm just trying to reach a pinnacle in my career. It is a school encouraged by our Leadership, and they only send those they are confident in. I understand that sometimes I can be over-confident, but I'm always ready to prove myself. If an army troop wants the "smoke my guns", good luck. I don't believe that he can do it until he does. That's the way I was raised. And that's the attitude I'm taking to Benning, hopefully. I'm not going to act like I have a chip on my shoulder, as no one is invincible, but I will guarantee this: If I make there, I'm going all the way. Just defending a fellow blue-suiter.

Now, what was this thread all about?

[Cujo]

Originally posted by MK19 (mod 3)

My Phone Call: 1SG M#### There's a AF dog handler preparing for Ranger School....he does not deserve his TAB.
you're definitely not going to pass Ranger School...because friend, that School doesn't have a damn thing to do with PT. PT doesn't mean shit.. Y : [B][B



Ah, discrimination. It's so nice to see that we have progressed so much in the past 40 years. If for some reason I don't make it through, I will just come back. I won't give up. Oh, and I'm NOT GOING TO RANGER SCHOOL. I'm just training for Pre-Ranger. Didn't you just quote that? Wow.
You are right about one thing, though. It's not about PT. It's about Leadership. It's about being able to lead troops when you are hungry, tired, cold and wet. It's about getting the job done under the most austere conditions. It's about being motivated, and quite frankly, I'm glad you said I won't make it. It's people like you that drive me harder.

Thanks, in an odd sort of ways...

[MK19 (mod 3)]

Its not discrimination....From the way you talk, I truly believe that you don't deserve a Ranger Tab. Moreover, try as hard as you damn want...The fact remains, if you talk shit to one of our brother Rangers...you will not pass. We don't need Air Force dog handlers with Ranger tabs who talk shit to or about Rangers.
Here a couple examples of your piss poor attitude:

Said to The Reaper:

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Well, I'd certainly hope so...

said to everyone:

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Why are you letting a bunch of old, crusty, used-to-be's bother you?


and this one....

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Sounds like someone needs a hug. Go ask one of your "Ranger-Buddies".

and these...

Originally posted by MasterCujo



Originally posted by MasterCujo
[B] Looks like I'll have to shut a lot of guys up in Benning when I get there, and that should be soon, hopefully. If they all have your personality, it'll be fun smokin' em. They only way they'll smoke me is if they start with one guy and when he gets tired, they bring in another. Even then, I'm skeptical...


And not to mention all the Shit you talked to Sharky, a respected Ranger within the community who now does one of the most important jobs in the country.

So, I say again, in Ranger School your attitude is measured and it just so happens that we now have a heads up on what its like... Fucked up. I'm sure the Benning RIs will especially like the quote about you "shutting them up" and "smokin' em".

Not smart...not smart at all.

[Cujo]

Lemme get this straight. Because you wear the TAB means you can roam all over the threads, bustin' people's balls? You didn't mention ANYTHING that was said by others, or why this fire started in the first place.

I hold fast still. Thanks for motivating me. If the powers that be won't pass me because they don't like a confident AF troop so be it. It's nothing on them or me. I'll have more knowledge leaving there than what I had when I first got there to teach to the troops at home station. And like I said I won't give up. I'll be back. Hopefully by then, the people that I emulate won't be living in 1962...

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Lemme get this straight. Because you wear the TAB means you can roam all over the threads, bustin' people's balls?

Now you're getting the idea! But it's not really the tab, it's the scroll. He's been where you think you want to go, he's done what you think you want to do. So yes he can roam ALL over SOCNET and bust whoever's balls he wants to. Same same Frogstyle and the Reaper and all the others.

That's how it works.

Oh yeah, I like that you capitliized TAB, shows proper respect. Well done.

[Cujo]

Well, what's good for the goose... :D

[Bravo_One_Three]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
You didn't mention ANYTHING that was said by others, or why this fire started in the first place.

I'll field that one... You started this fire. Why? Because you are an asshole with a big chip on his shoulder. Read your own posts you whiney little bitch. Your calling people unprofessional, but waging your dick the whole time like a 15 year old.

You're doing a hell of a job representing the Dog Police junior.

[C.Todd]

Hey doghandler, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Take some advice: back-pedal. Fast. And be polite. You're deliberately insulting and pissing on people who know their way around the military and have done more than you can ever hope to imagine.

Pre-Ranger, huh? Never having been there I don't know what's in store for you (but I can guess), but I wonder why, if you're so tough and such a PT god, you chose not to jump in the pool at Lackland when you had the chance (and you had a lot of chances)?

I'll bet it's because your mouth is bigger than your balls.

[Ranger275]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Well, what's good for the goose... :D

Exactly. That's the beautiful thing about being prior/current SOF. It's our community and we make the decisions.
BTW, I hope the "Pre-Ranger" at Benning that you're referring to is with the 75th. Now that would be funny!

[SN]

Sharkey,

Can the rest of the AF types here disown the puppy pusher?

MC...you are embarrassing the Air Force folks that post here. Cut the attitude, you think you sharp, post your Ranger School graduation photo (if you make it that far). Then folks may show you a little respect.

SN

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCulo
Well, what's good for the goose... :D

What does that even mean? What are you talking about? Who said anything about a fuckin' goose? I thought you played with dogs, now you are on about a goose?

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by C.Todd
Hey doghandler, SHUT THE FUCK UP!


What years were you in 7th Grp?

[Cujo]

Originally posted by C.Todd
but I wonder why, if you're so tough and such a PT god, you chose not to jump in the pool at Lackland when you had the chance (and you had a lot of chances)?




You're right. I have had plenty of opportunities. I said I can swim well. I am definately not on par with PJ's and CCT's. I'm just going to spread the training I learn at Benning back to the young troops at home station so they can apply some of the skills down-range one day. So, my job will be accomplished. Yeah, I'm K9. And I'm proud of it. When I get back, I'll still be a handler.
I will say that this negativity is a fuel to keep me motivated. When I'm extremely tired and hallucinating out in the field the posts here will be the fulcrum in which I will balance myself on.

Good on ya, and thanks again.

[C.Todd]

doghandler, you stupid and arrogant motherfucker! Hiding isn't going to protect you and playing the "I could have done it, but..." shit even before your get off your stool is an act of cowardice.

Motherfucker... tell me when you're due to report and I'll take vacation just to watch you suffer at Benning, you piece of shit. It'd be a pleasure to watch you quit, cry and slink away, you fucking tapeworm.

[Sharky]

No prob guys....I fully realize that this clown isn't representative of the AF or AFSOC. He's a typical troll, nothing more. Fire at will. The range is hot.

[Sharky]

Originally posted by C.Todd
doghandler, you stupid and arrogant motherfucker! Hiding isn't going to protect you and playing the "I could have done it, but..." shit even before your get off your stool is an act of cowardice.

Motherfucker... tell me when you're due to report and I'll take vacation just to watch you suffer at Benning, you piece of shit. It'd be a pleasure to watch you quit, cry and slink away, you fucking tapeworm.



Hahahahaahha.......now that's the AirForce I like to see. Get some brutha.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCulo
I'm just going to spread the training I learn at Benning back to the young troops at home station so they can apply some of the skills down-range one day.

So now you're an RI? Just going to "spread around" what takes the finest small unit leaders in the world to teach properly? Just going to bounce up there, get the poop and come on back to train the trainer? You are some kind of arrogant Watchiman.

[Ranger275]

Hahahaa, if this fuckstain is going to Benning for Pre-Ragnar, (and correct me if I'm wrong) means that he'll be doing 75th's or RTB's course. We can make his life real interesting...BTW, the only thing you'll learn at Regimental pre-ranger is how to eat butter packets and drink bean juice. :p

[Cujo]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
So now you're an RI? Just going to "spread around" what takes the finest small unit leaders in the world to teach properly? Just going to bounce up there, get the poop and come on back to train the trainer? You are some kind of arrogant Watchiman.


You're killing me, sneaky. No one said I was an RI. YOU DID. I'm just planning to teach the things I learn, no more, no less. Most of our troops don't know anything past basic land navigation or troop movements. I will just be applying what I've learned. Chill out, man.

[Cujo]

Originally posted by C.Todd
doghandler, you stupid and arrogant motherfucker! Hiding isn't going to protect you and playing the "I could have done it, but..." shit even before your get off your stool is an act of cowardice.

Motherfucker... tell me when you're due to report and I'll take vacation just to watch you suffer at Benning, you piece of shit. It'd be a pleasure to watch you quit, cry and slink away, you fucking tapeworm.


That's classic. THIS is the one I will recollect the most.

[Bravo_One_Three]

MisterHandJob, thanks for playing, but I think we're out of door prizes. You don't even get a copy of the home game...

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by MasterCulo
You're killing me, sneaky. No one said I was an RI. YOU DID. I'm just planning to teach the things I learn, no more, no less. Most of our troops don't know anything past basic land navigation or troop movements. I will just be applying what I've learned. Chill out, man.

You won't last through the first day. What are ya going to teach the troops, how to get on and off a bus?

[C.Todd]

I doubt you're capable of learning anything! The dog at the end of your leash is smarter than you. Fuck, the leash is probably smarter than you are.

What the hell are you going to teach anyone? How to be a complete and utter ass? How to fuck up a good opportunity? How to convince every one of your genetic superiority without actually having the balls your mother needed just to birth the seminal mistake you've turned out to be?

Pre-Ranger... I doubt you could pass gas without help.

Until Benning, I'm done.

[Cujo]

Originally posted by WSC Guy
Sharkey,

Can the rest of the AF types here disown the puppy pusher?

MC...you are embarrassing the Air Force folks that post here. Cut the attitude, you think you sharp, post your Ranger School graduation photo (if you make it that far). Then folks may show you a little respect.

SN

I doubt, bro. But this is the shot in the arm I will need in the near future. Nothing but respect for you WSCGuy. Check your PM...

All others, I applogize for any negative transgretions and I appreciate the motivation. Thanks again. Sorry if I shit in your rice bowl! OUT

[magician]

This entire thread is too stupid. I can't believe I actually read it all.

My favorite part was when he called Sharky "Schmuckatelli." I sputtered.

That aside, I respect K9'ers. And I would rather hang out with dogs than with most people, my brothers aside (mostly because we run in packs and are more canine than human, anyway).

I also think the gate guard did a damned good job. I could give a fuck about the awards system.

Otherwise....this thread has been a good reminder why I need to confine myself to the Team Room.

[Ace]

Fuck me, I can't believe I missed out on this!
The one night I decide to have folks over to the house, we get a high speed low drag "let me tell you about how it should be" guy talkin' smack in MY AO.

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Lemme get this straight. Because you wear the TAB means you can roam all over the threads, bustin' people's balls?

You're damn right, simple fact of fuckin' life, this site is designed for the guys who do the dirty work, they can say and do whatever they please, whenever they please, and if you don't like it, get the fuck out.

Originally posted by Hotmike
(hell, all we need now is Tack, Hazen and Tracey over here, and we'll have the whole SOCNET Mafia in his corner, and I am intimately familiar with the METT-T of that battlefield, and I ain't gettin into that scrap).


Obviously you forgot about the quiet short guy with the attitude.
(See comments at end)

Originally posted by Hotmike
I'll have more knowledge leaving there than what I had when I first got there to teach to the troops at home station.............
...........I'm just going to spread the training I learn at Benning back to the young troops at home station so they can apply some of the skills down-range one day............When I get back, I'll still be a handler..........

You just don't get it do you? The community doesn't want fuck stains to show up and "get the school", you're not being selected to "teach" shit (SF has that gig) and your damn sure not being taught to "go back" anywhere.

Originally posted by MasterCujo
When I'm extremely tired and hallucinating out in the field the posts here will be the fulcrum in which I will balance myself on.

LMAO, when you’re sitting inside a pitch black 3 X 5 hole and you look to your left and see a swimming pool, come talk to me about hallucinating.


Let me give you some NCOPD hotnuts, since obviously you don't take advice from people who call you. Don't talk shit unless you have the resume to back it up.

The SOF community is very, very small. They are made up of people that are at the "tip of the spear" as they say (read that as folks like Sharky, Frogstyle, Jeff, and various others on this board that are to numerous to name. Do not include me in this list, as I am somewhere down towards the handle of said spear).

Fuck it, this took too long to post and it's 2am here. As I see it at a minimum you owe Sharky an apology, I would love nothing more than to keep writing and say my piece but honestly I'm afraid you may get booted before I get this posted. Admin's don't boot him until I can post more.

[Special Forces]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
I doubt, bro. But this is the shot in the arm I will need in the near future. Nothing but respect for you WSCGuy. Check your PM...

All others, I applogize for any negative transgretions and I appreciate the motivation. Thanks again. Sorry if I shit in your rice bowl! OUT

MC:

I am with WSCGuy on this one.

You have no basis for comparison. None.

You have completed no stress course that can prepare you for Ranger school, or can compare to it.

I expect that you will arrive at the RTB, flex or open your mouth one time, and immediately be set upon by the nastiest, most cruel individuals who will give you the most humbling experience of your life. Within an hour, your woeful inadequacies will be exposed for all to see, you will be crying before signing the termination papers. Fortunately, you will have plenty of time on the way home to make up a good excuse.

You MAY be fast, on a track, in running shoes and Gucci garments. Strap a radio ruck on your ass, or grab the M-240 and eat maybe one MRE per day, sleeping maybe 30 minutes per night in the mud for a few weeks, and see how quick you are and how much shit you talk.

The very men you have challenged and attempted to belittle here have made it through that school, the RIP, and served with distinction in Ranger units, which compares to completing the course about like attending a Michael Jordan basketball camp prepares you to play in the NBA. Many of these same posters have been through combat as well, and some are highly decorated veterans.

If you make it through and graduate, I will be absolutely amazed, particularly given the trash you have talked here. I perceive from your comments here that you are one of those guys who can't keep his mouth shut for 15 minutes without some trash coming out. The instructors and your fellow students will crush you. If you make it that far, in the HTH pit, someone will take advantage of the opportunity to hurt you, badly.

In the past year, I have seen about 12 guys come in here and rant about how they were going to smoke Ranger School, BUD/S, or SFAS. Exactly ZERO have made it. The ones who do make it from here, rarely boast before they go, they just ruck up, move out, and come back later with a Tab, or the Bird, to do their talking for them.

You may notice that you are posting on SOCNET. That stands for Special Operations, which dog cops are not. There is a forum for AF Security, but you should be aware that you are being tolerated here, and you are not a member of the brotherhood.

You want to impress us, go to PJ or CCT training and come back to tell us. Rent-a-cops and mall ninjas are a dime a dozen.

Frogstyle, who lit this candle off, is in fact, a real SEAL and a graduate of Ranger School as well, IIRC. He is also a fairly dangerous man, as are several of the others here. They have proven their mettle in ways that you cannot comprehend. I suggest, young man, that you shut your pie hole until you have done something significant in Special Operations to brag about.

Good luck, you are really going to need it.

TR

[RAT]

HERE IS MY .0000000002


This is what pisses me off about the whole deal.

My fellow MARINES can either back me up or not... I think they will see my POV.

Did the Airman do his JOB? YES! Did it rate an Award maybe. More like a Letter of recomendation. Why do I say this.

As Marines know we have Security Forces (Gate Guards) and MSG (High Ranking Embessy Gate Guards) and General GRUNTS. Every Grunt in the Corps will preform some type of gate guard in their time with the Grunts. PERIOD!!!

I can speak for myself and a few other Marines who have stood guard at one time or another in the PI. We have had fire fights we have lost Marines who have been fired upon. There also have been many many times Marines have killed or seriously wounded ememies of our CORPS. We (Marines) have had MSG Marines get killed in the line of Duty. So I do find this BSM a little hard to chew down. Most awards for doing my job Navy Acheivment meadls (NAM's).

This is My .01( I got a raise)

RAT OUT!!!

[NMBR5ML]

Just to clarify something some have missed-- USAF Security Forces runs a pre-Ranger course. Those selected may be sent to Ranger school. Upon graduation, they are usually employed in some type of instructor position; either back at pre-ranger or in a number of readiness courses designed to acclimate USAF support troops to operating in forward areas and fighting on the ground.

Master Cujo, two words for you: Situational Awareness

This is something I am constantly preaching to the younger troops, but MC, according to your profile you are the same age as me, so maybe you just need to grow up and develop some self-respect. Your posts are ripe with Freudian insecurity.

You could not have made yourself look like more of a choad...

[frogstyle]

HOTMIKE,

Your last post reads similar to my original.

When I say "SOF" its an all inclusive label for the SPECOPS community in general, irrespective of branch or grade.

I agree emphaticly that the CCT and TACP's are included in that group.

I think the consensus here is that the USAF has created a "medal making machine". SO be it.

We can all agree that when you see a Comm w/V on an SF Sgt, it may be for an act that would have garnered far greater award in the USAF or Navy, in fact any "regular unit or command".

This point is mute.

[NewportBarGuy]

Sir,

I should say nothing... And shall, kind of...

That was one of the best posts I've ever read on this board... Thank you for your time and effort to contribute on the matter.

My opinion means nothing, granted, but that was just such a great post I had to say so.

Thank you, The Reaper!

Newport

Originally posted by The Reaper
MC:

I am with WSCGuy on this one.

You have no basis for comparison. None.

You have completed no stress course that can prepare you for Ranger school, or can compare to it.

I expect that you will arrive at the RTB, flex or open your mouth one time, and immediately be set upon by the nastiest, most cruel individuals who will give you the most humbling experience of your life. Within an hour, your woeful inadequacies will be exposed for all to see, you will be crying before signing the termination papers. Fortunately, you will have plenty of time on the way home to make up a good excuse.

You MAY be fast, on a track, in running shoes and Gucci garments. Strap a radio ruck on your ass, or grab the M-240 and eat maybe one MRE per day, sleeping maybe 30 minutes per night in the mud for a few weeks, and see how quick you are and how much shit you talk.

The very men you have challenged and attempted to belittle here have made it through that school, the RIP, and served with distinction in Ranger units, which compares to completing the course about like attending a Michael Jordan basketball camp prepares you to play in the NBA. Many of these same posters have been through combat as well, and some are highly decorated veterans.

If you make it through and graduate, I will be absolutely amazed, particularly given the trash you have talked here. I perceive from your comments here that you are one of those guys who can't keep his mouth shut for 15 minutes without some trash coming out. The instructors and your fellow students will crush you. If you make it that far, in the HTH pit, someone will take advantage of the opportunity to hurt you, badly.

In the past year, I have seen about 12 guys come in here and rant about how they were going to smoke Ranger School, BUD/S, or SFAS. Exactly ZERO have made it. The ones who do make it from here, rarely boast before they go, they just ruck up, move out, and come back later with a Tab, or the Bird, to do their talking for them.

You may notice that you are posting on SOCNET. That stands for Special Operations, which dog cops are not. There is a forum for AF Security, but you should be aware that you are being tolerated here, and you are not a member of the brotherhood.

You want to impress us, go to PJ or CCT training and come back to tell us. Rent-a-cops and mall ninjas are a dime a dozen.

Frogstyle, who lit this candle off, is in fact, a real SEAL and a graduate of Ranger School as well, IIRC. He is also a fairly dangerous man, as are several of the others here. They have proven their mettle in ways that you cannot comprehend. I suggest, young man, that you shut your pie hole until you have done something significant in Special Operations to brag about.

Good luck, you are really going to need it.

TR

[MikeC2W]

Holy shit, what an assfuck this guy is.

Do we have a class date for this Ranger hooah legg school wannabe???

MasterFag...please FUCKOFF already!

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by frogstyle
HOTMIKE,

Your last post reads similar to my original.

When I say "SOF" its an all inclusive label for the SPECOPS community in general, irrespective of branch or grade.

I agree emphaticly that the CCT and TACP's are included in that group.

I think the consensus here is that the USAF has created a "medal making machine". SO be it.

We can all agree that when you see a Comm w/V on an SF Sgt, it may be for an act that would have garnered far greater award in the USAF or Navy, in fact any "regular unit or command".

This point is mute.

Frogstyle,

Yup... Attribute my initial post to a bad case of "OhfuknotanothercyberSEALitis"...
I initially underestimated your "right" to make the statement about "MY" service (but hey, can ya blame me? I must meet like 300 cyberSEALs and AOLDelta Force guys every time I turn on the computer... Its refreshing to actually meet someone who has actually, no shit, earned the right to talk smack).

Looking at it from a reality based perspective, and knowing now, that you weren't painting ALL of us BlueSuiters as desk molesters makes your initial statement much more paletable and digestable.

I guess it just took a calmer head like Sharky to put it into perspective for me with a classic gem like his "In the AF, doing what he did makes him a hero, but in other units it would have gained him nothing more than criticism about his shot grouping"... That statement pretty much says it all.

So Froggie, I apologize for jerkin on your dick, and I'll make it up to you over a few beers if I ever meet you... (and none of that cheap assed, warm beer you Navy types seem to have such a propensity for... but a good, COLD, rear echelon, Frosty Mug, Air Force, type beer).

NOW ALL YOU STEELY EYED KILLER TYPES GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS "AIR FORCE" AO, AND GET BACK TO YOUR PERSPECTIVE FORUMS AND KEEP SOCNET SAFE FROM THOSE NINTENDO WARRIORS... AND DON'T FORGET TO CLOSE THE DOORS YOU KICKED DOWN ON THE WAY IN HERE... You're letting all the Air Conditioned air out...
*Looking around and surveying the damage* "How the fuck did that hole in the ceiling get there?"

"This thread is ended... Go in Peace"

[Hotmike]

... And would one of you guys take this DEAD HORSE with you when you leave? It's stinkin up the place!

[Type-82]

Originally posted by MasterCujo

Ah, discrimination. It's so nice to see that we have progressed so much in the past 40 years. If for some reason I don't make it through, I will just come back. I won't give up. Oh, and I'm NOT GOING TO RANGER SCHOOL. I'm just training for Pre-Ranger. Didn't you just quote that? Wow.
You are right about one thing, though. It's not about PT. It's about Leadership. It's about being able to lead troops when you are hungry, tired, cold and wet. It's about getting the job done under the most austere conditions. It's about being motivated, and quite frankly, I'm glad you said I won't make it. It's people like you that drive me harder.

Thanks, in an odd sort of ways...

Its about a lot more than leadership pal. Its about being able to get along, and pull your share. You stink of peer material. That's right you will be evaluated by your peers. No amount of ass kissing or posing will get you by them. If you can't get along in here how do you expect to get along face to face? Oh well, the Gulag needs people too!!

by the way being a fat assed beer drinking crusty old timer, it is still the gulag isn't it?

PS Hot Mike, never ever ever underestimate the pure physical pleasure of beating a dead horse. EVER!!

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Thanks, Narcosis. I already know what being Razzed by the Army is like from being at Fort Campbell last year.

LMFAO

You think you know from Campbell? As in Air Assault school?

You are one dumb doghandler.

[MikeC2W]

Originally posted by Greenhat
You are one dumb doghandler.

Now that's a great one-liner!

[zog]

... are very lucid. Or is that Lusid?

[quote]I hold fast still. Thanks for motivating me. If the powers that be won't pass me because they don't like a confident AF troop so be it. It's nothing on them or me. I'll have more knowledge leaving there than what I had when I first got there to teach to the troops at home station. And like I said I won't give up. I'll be back. Hopefully by then, the people that I emulate won't be living in 1962...[quote]

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by zog
... are very lucid. Or is that Lusid?

[quote]I hold fast still. Thanks for motivating me. If the powers that be won't pass me because they don't like a confident AF troop so be it. It's nothing on them or me. I'll have more knowledge leaving there than what I had when I first got there to teach to the troops at home station. And like I said I won't give up. I'll be back. Hopefully by then, the people that I emulate won't be living in 1962...[quote]

Ask him about his grandfathers invention! Tell him he stole the design from someone else...............

[Hotmike]

Brewmonkey,
Didn't ol Lusid fall by the wayside when he went into the Army? As in, couldn't hack it, so he went AWOL or something like that? I know he didn't make those goals he was going to so easily achieve... Cujo is silly and arrogant, but he's nowhere as "genetically superior" as Lusid was... Even though his Grandpa stole the invention of the computer... LOL

Hotmike

[Defender377]

Originally posted by frogstyle
HOTMIKE,

Your last post reads similar to my original.

When I say "SOF" its an all inclusive label for the SPECOPS community in general, irrespective of branch or grade.

I agree emphaticly that the CCT and TACP's are included in that group.

I think the consensus here is that the USAF has created a "medal making machine". SO be it.

We can all agree that when you see a Comm w/V on an SF Sgt, it may be for an act that would have garnered far greater award in the USAF or Navy, in fact any "regular unit or command".

This point is mute.

TACP's...give me a break. Woo hoo...they know how to operate a radio. CCT and PJ's...hands down. AF Cops...not by a long shot. I'd hate to think that there are any that would try and argue that point with a Seal, Ranger or any other snake eater. Thing is we're proud of the thankless job we do. When something like this happens in our world...it's news and we stand a little taller knowing one of OUR brothers made us proud.

I know you guys hate the fact we have a thread on SOCNET. Honestly, I don't know why we do either, but it's here. I guess you guys just need a punching bag from time to time, I don't know. The fact still remains we're all still on the same team...like it or not.

D377
"OUT"

[C.Todd]

Defenseless: when was the last time you worked with a TACP?

[Ace]

Originally posted by C.Todd
Defenseless: when was the last time you worked with a TACP?

Was thinking the same.

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by Defender377
TACP's...give me a break. Woo hoo...they know how to operate a radio. CCT and PJ's...hands down. AF Cops...not by a long shot. I'd hate to think that there are any that would try and argue that point with a Seal, Ranger or any other snake eater. Thing is we're proud of the thankless job we do. When something like this happens in our world...it's news and we stand a little taller knowing one of OUR brothers made us proud.

I know you guys hate the fact we have a thread on SOCNET. Honestly, I don't know why we do either, but it's here. I guess you guys just need a punching bag from time to time, I don't know. The fact still remains we're all still on the same team...like it or not.

D377
"OUT"

Defender,
I'd also be interested in the last time you ever worked with a TACP... It's not that we can operate a radio... It's what we can do with that radio.

I've never been a cop basher... as a matter of fact I have a great respect for Skycops for doing what they do... (Industrial Security and Law Enforcement) Maybe checking out this thread that was started by Masterdogwhacker, (with a chip on his shoulder) a while back might clarify that.

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16057&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

And understanding that initially my defense of the airman in question was to state that he went beyond the normal call of duty, and deserved recognition, is what got this debate cranking in the first place.

I'll still say this: I'd take that kid on my team any day, cause he showed some sack...

But you and Cullo seem to be doing a timeshare with that big assed chip on your shoulder. Not all TACPs despise Aircops!!! Normally, it's just the youngins fresh out of tech school that don't know any better... What I like to do with them is have them stand post for 12 hours ONCE! Then they start looking at it from a whole new perspective. But then again, I have respect for every career field that supports the efforts of me and my guys... It's just a shame to see that you can't do the same.

Over my many years of working in the "Joint" arena, I've had to prove myself, time and time again to the Army, Navy and Marines... I've had to rely on them for everything... and all I had to do to earn that which they gave me (food, fuel, water, batteries, ammo you name it) was "Operate a Radio"... Only once did my Ground Commander tell me "Aim High, you are worthless, overpriced and broke" (after having to tell him that the Aircraft had weather cancelled, and wouldn't be supporting his intent)... And he's the same guy that wrote and submitted my Joint Service Commendation Medal at the end of the deployment.

I appreciate the fact that guys outside of the Air Force would give me and my kind some "props"... They HAVE worked with TACPs in the past, which is more than you can say... So their opinion is much more valuable to me than yours is...

HK

[Cujo]

Don't blame me, stud. I only came on this thread to try and help to defend your sorry ass.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Hot mike,
Culo only has one L

[Ranger275]

Hey Cujo...http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/arnold%20shut%20the%20fuck%20up.jpg

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Don't blame me, stud. I only came on this thread to try and help to defend your sorry ass.

Damn, Did I dial 911?

[Hotmike]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Hot mike,
Culo only has one L

No wonder I only got a 2/1.5 on my last DLAPT, and lost the pro-pay!

Thanx for the Assist!

HK

[Reaper375]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Someday we will aspire to be the PT studs that are so prevalent within the AF dog handling community.

Heh. I'll be heading to Indian Springs to see if I get my go for Benning soon. As for PT, I SEVERELY DOUBT that you alone have what it takes to out PT me, and I'm just a "gate guard". However, I will not resort to "my dad is tougher than your dad" crap. Sigh...gotta a ruck to pack.


Please please please let me know when you'll be at Benning. I'll arrange for a hearty Ranger welcome. Bring your dog too... it's been awhile since they've had a cookout.

[Reaper375]

Originally posted by MasterCujo
Well, what's good for the goose... :D

Did you say Goose?

GOOSE??!!?!?!?!?!

(starting to twitch here)

Damn.. lemme know when you're going through Pre-Ranger Mr. "I'll never quit." It's always fun to watch a supposed badass pissing himself because he broke down after only 1/2 hour of smoke.

*sigh* oh well... you sure SOUND tough on here.... ya got me quaking...

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Looks like a case of Goose Rage! Magician, what are we using for that now? Tetracycline? No, I remember, three rapid punches to the head and neck (for the offender)!

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by Ruffner275
Hey Cujo...http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/arnold%20shut%20the%20fuck%20up.jpg

Mr. Ruffner - you are one funny MFer! Saludos y Kudos!

[Ranger275]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Mr. Ruffner - you are one funny MFer! Saludos y Kudos!

Bill, yer too kind. Now stop being so nice or:
http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/raped%20copy.jpg

[Defender377]

Originally posted by Hotmike
Defender,
I'd also be interested in the last time you ever worked with a TACP... It's not that we can operate a radio... It's what we can do with that radio.

I've never been a cop basher... as a matter of fact I have a great respect for Skycops for doing what they do... (Industrial Security and Law Enforcement) Maybe checking out this thread that was started by Masterdogwhacker, (with a chip on his shoulder) a while back might clarify that.

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16057&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

And understanding that initially my defense of the airman in question was to state that he went beyond the normal call of duty, and deserved recognition, is what got this debate cranking in the first place.

I'll still say this: I'd take that kid on my team any day, cause he showed some sack...

But you and Cullo seem to be doing a timeshare with that big assed chip on your shoulder. Not all TACPs despise Aircops!!! Normally, it's just the youngins fresh out of tech school that don't know any better... What I like to do with them is have them stand post for 12 hours ONCE! Then they start looking at it from a whole new perspective. But then again, I have respect for every career field that supports the efforts of me and my guys... It's just a shame to see that you can't do the same.

Over my many years of working in the "Joint" arena, I've had to prove myself, time and time again to the Army, Navy and Marines... I've had to rely on them for everything... and all I had to do to earn that which they gave me (food, fuel, water, batteries, ammo you name it) was "Operate a Radio"... Only once did my Ground Commander tell me "Aim High, you are worthless, overpriced and broke" (after having to tell him that the Aircraft had weather cancelled, and wouldn't be supporting his intent)... And he's the same guy that wrote and submitted my Joint Service Commendation Medal at the end of the deployment.

I appreciate the fact that guys outside of the Air Force would give me and my kind some "props"... They HAVE worked with TACPs in the past, which is more than you can say... So their opinion is much more valuable to me than yours is...

HK

Alright Hotmike point taken, you're absolutley right. I've never worked with a TACP and will probably never need to. I went through SV-80 with a couple of your guys...they were decent guys I can't say a bad thing about'em. My intent wasn't to bash TACPs, I apologize for the whole "Woo hoo" comment, sorry. I will however stick to MY feeling that, TACPs are not considered "operators" any more that combat weather troops or cops. If you think you are entitled to that "title" then good on you, only you know in your heart if you truly deserve it. I'm over it, hope you can get on with your life now. I was just comming to the defense of a brother. It just seemed like everyone was being retarded about a cop getting a friggin medal for killing a terrorist. Thats all.

D377
"OUT"

[frogstyle]

this thread is like cancer

[Cujo]

I retract all statements as well. This is about a cop who did his job, and he has done the SP community proud. All else pales...

[blue beanie]

To all:

A disclaimer - this AH's opinion does not reflect the healthy and well-deserved respect the AF SP community has for our Special Forces brothers in arms.

Anyhow...

The AF dec system is broke, just look at the Air Force Times from a few weeks ago and note the two aircrews that will recieve the Distinguished Flying Cross for dropping their load from 30,000 and MAYBE getting Saddam. FUCT UP. Oh well, it is a flyer's Air Force...

Having said that, another troop (SSgt Reese (his first name)) involved in the Qatar gate incident was also awarded the BSM w/ V. Direct from the SP E-9 on the ground in Qatar that did the follow-up investigation: The first troop engaged, and from all indications missed his target. The second troop (Reese) moved 200 meters and returned fire with his 9mm and dropped the bad guy. Mission Complete

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Masterbating Cujo,

Not satisfied with just bad mouthing the TACP, you decided to go for the gusto and fuck with the Special Forces brothers here.

I will personally call the Pre-Ranger Course Manager and give them a heads up about a "special" student on the short bus coming his way. He will be directed to this thread and others as illustration of your disdain and disrespect. I'm certain one of their criteria for graduation is being able to play well with others.

You might be able to PT til the cows come home, but you damn well better learn that winning the firefight, battle or war is all about teamwork. Perhaps the reason why you've chosen to partner with a dog is because no human can stand your bullshit?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And BTW, after much review I'm certain the reason SPs have a thread on this board is for the amusement of the major players here. :D

[Phil the SP]

Guys..

I guess the only thing I can say is you have to know Master Cujo.

I'm not supporting some of the things he's said, as I think this is a case where he "opened mouth, inserted foot" and basically screwed himself with some of that, but he truely is a motivated Mo-fo, built like a brick shit house, and the man does know his shit.

He may just surprise you guys with a pic of his Ranger School graduation when he finally gets there. He's the kind that would do it just to piss you off, and he does feed off the shit you guys are sendin his way. It's just the way he is. He *is* a hell of a cop. Sometimes I wonder what he's doing in this career field, and why he's not wearing a different uniform and a different beret. It's certainly not (in my opinion) through lack of ability, nor is it - surpriseingly - his "situational awareness" that he's shown here. He's generally pretty squared away.

But like I said...you just have to know him and how he talks/thinks.

I like to refer to Cujo as a bit of a dreamer or an idealist. He thinks the AFSP's (or Security Forces or whatever the hell they decide to call us next week) are going places, that we'll "hit the big time" some day.

Personally I don't. I think the AF is going to continually screw around with us until they decide to contract us out (the AF way!) - but thats just me.

As for everything else, I'll leave it to you spec-ops types. I'll go take my Dog for a walk and check on the perimeter, maybe look for some drugs or a jaywalker or something.

Phil

[KJ]

Yes, I have been hearing a lot of rumors about the outsourcing. Used to be, the Air Force was short on money, now they are short on people. Why not ask that question on farming out SF on a new thread? I would be interested to know what you Security folks think about this. This Master Cujo thing is old hat.

[danjam]

cujo, damn, you might be built like a brick shit house, seems like the brick is in your head dude.
Why the need to piss your piers off to be more motivated (get off). Seems you need to remind yourself that you might need one these people (I hope that you never do) one day, or maybe someone that you care about.
Your attitude does not make sence.

Your muscles don't mean shit (only in a bar fight...maybe) it is your head that will get you through. Take a breath and apologize, I know is hurts, but when plenty of people tell you are wrong, then ...

[BlueGrunt]

I wasn't their, but I was stationed with Clint when he returned. I was also at the ceremony when he was decorated. I got a look at the report after hearing the citation. As far as I could see, their were no shots fired other than the AK and the one M9. Is this 2nd Bronze Star citation on the web anywhere?

Nuck

[KJ]

Maybe, but I doubt it. I couldn't find a web site for Silver Stars, let alone Bronze Stars.

[BlueGrunt]

I figured it would be on th AF.mil site, but I can't find it. Clint might know himself. I'll email him this page, and see what he knows.

Nuck