SF Recruiting Mission Increase [Archive] - SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network

hugh_ct

20 November 2001, 14:05

Originally posted by DIRSUP KORLING:
If any prior service vets are thinking about going SF he reccomended avoiding coming in with an intel/crypto MOS. A lot of the intel/crypto MOSs are undermanned and are closed to SF recruiting. mario

If you want to go SF do not, in any circumstances, come in with CMF 98 (98G,98C in particular)

YOU WILL NOT BE RELEASED TO SF!

I saw this happen to several outstanding soldiers, who subsequently left the Army.
It was especially bad in the mid 90s, I saw at least two soldiers get through SFAS but they were not released by MI Branch. Last Time I spoke with an SF Recruiter(been a couple of years) he wouldn't even talk to the CMF 98 linguists.

[This message has been edited by hugh_ct (edited 11-20-2001).]

RLK

20 November 2001, 17:28

Not sure if any of you guys heard about this, but the Army is now offering a Warrant Officer Flight Training Contract.

Tracy

20 November 2001, 18:42

Originally posted by RLK:
Not sure if any of you guys heard about this, but the Army is now offering a Warrant Officer Flight Training Contract.

You know, this reply is so sincere, I decided to forgo the standard smart-ass remark. Instead:

We know, it's been offered since the late fifties.

Razor

20 November 2001, 19:23

Riptide,

This comes from a guy that was on my old team who's currently pulling red cycle support at Bragg. Take it for what its worth:

"Hey XXX,
Well I was home long enough to unpack wash and pack again! Came up on a detail for phase II support out at Mackall, man you could not believe how easy selection is today! It is unbelievable what they did just to get numbers! No team week ! no stress, all night to sleep and carry on and its just mostly training for the students to go on to the next phase! Makes you want to terminate! Three days from the end of selection and they still have about 85% of the candidates still here! no 25 mile road march, now they have three days to do 60 kilometers at a slow pace! SIX chances to finish the star land nav, well its more like a twinkle nav cause some legs are only 2 to three klicks long! Not even a gut check to weed out the dirtbags! anyway glad to hear from you and I'll drop a line when I get back. Later."

RLK

20 November 2001, 20:08

Tracy, thankyou for being gentle. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/wink.gif I was under the impression it was brand new.

Sean Baker

20 November 2001, 22:11

Originally posted by hugh_ct:
If you want to go SF do not, in any circumstances, come in with CMF 98 (98G,98C in particular)

YOU WILL NOT BE RELEASED TO SF!

I saw this happen to several outstanding soldiers, who subsequently left the Army.
It was especially bad in the mid 90s, I saw at least two soldiers get through SFAS but they were not released by MI Branch. Last Time I spoke with an SF Recruiter(been a couple of years) he wouldn't even talk to the CMF 98 linguists.

Does anyone know if this is still the case? Is CMF 98 prohibited from BEAR-ing over as well? Thanks.

------------------
Sean R. Baker
PFC, United States Army
"Lead me, follow me,
or get out of my way."

DIRSUP KORLING

20 November 2001, 22:54

I specifically asked about 98G since that is the equivalent of my rate in the Navy. He reccommended going PYSOPS instead. Also, if you already speak a foriegn language you will not be sent through language training for another language.

mario

Sean Baker

20 November 2001, 23:11

Originally posted by DIRSUP KORLING:
I specifically asked about 98G since that is the equivalent of my rate in the Navy. He reccommended going PYSOPS instead. Also, if you already speak a foriegn language you will not be sent through language training for another language.

mario

DIRSUP,
Understood. As someone already "blessed" with the 98G designator (JEF LHL MEV noless), my options are quite limited. It's frustrating that either of us could join the other's branch to get into SOF, but can't do so in our own. FIDO.

------------------
Sean R. Baker
PFC, United States Army
"Lead me, follow me,
or get out of my way."

breakfall

20 November 2001, 23:41

"Hey XXX,
Well I was home long enough to unpack wash and pack again! Came up on a detail for phase II support out at Mackall, man you could not believe how easy selection is today! It is unbelievable what they did just to get numbers! No team week ! no stress, all night to sleep and carry on and its just mostly training for the students to go on to the next phase! Makes you want to terminate! Three days from the end of selection and they still have about 85% of the candidates still here! no 25 mile road march, now they have three days to do 60 kilometers at a slow pace! SIX chances to finish the star land nav, well its more like a twinkle nav cause some legs are only 2 to three klicks long! Not even a gut check to weed out the dirtbags! anyway glad to hear from you and I'll drop a line when I get back. Later."

That is horrible. It makes me NOT want to sign up.

Chris Mac

21 November 2001, 01:03

When you are talking about these "SF contracts off the street" do you mean a contract that guarantees you SFAS in your contract? If thats what you are referring too, then that is already in effect. I know because I got it in my contract. Its called an Option 70. Look it up. Once I reach E-4p (I go in an E-3), and get done with jump school, I am off to SFAS. My ASVAB score was pretty good and I was bitching so much because I wanted Ranger in my contract but they couldn't give it to me in my MOS so I guess that is why they offered it to me after the 3rd time I walked out. Feel free to ask questions if you have them. Also, making SFAS easier can be bad but if its still that way when I get there, rest assured that I will take advantage of every break that they give me.

Chris Mac

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If a man has nothing to die for, then he probably has nothing to live for.

Tracy

21 November 2001, 01:12

I have a sick feeling we're going back to the standards of the '70s. I should have known that SFAS wouldn't last; because it was the best thing that ever happened to SF. I was constantly impressed by the caliber of Soldier that came out of the process. Same Shit, Different Day.

breakfall

21 November 2001, 01:58

Stupid question but ...

does E-4 promotable mean promotable TO E-4 or FROM E-4 to E-5. I could never figure that out.

Camwyn

21 November 2001, 02:55

Chris,
I'm a long time wannabe and lurker on here. How did you qualify for getting option 70 in your contract? Any specific exam or test to pass at MEPS? Or is it like Airborne, something you wrestle out of you MEPS people? Also, what do you do in the Army while waiting to become E-4(p)?

Camwyn

TonyY

21 November 2001, 10:01

"I have a sick feeling we're going back to the standards of the '70s."

What's wrong with the standards of the 70s? I went through the Q course Phase 1 in 71 and it produced a good caliber of soldier. I had blisters on my blisters when we finished the patrolling part. Throughtout the three phases 123 of us started only 17 of us graduated.

I was drafted and then enlisted for SF once I was in basic training. Is that what you mean by off the street or SF baby..

De Oppresso Liber...

Chris Mac

21 November 2001, 15:38

Cam,

No special tests, exams, or anything. Regular physical and ASVAB is it. And yes I did have to wrestle it out of them. Like I said, I had to walk out 3 times. I originally wanted 91B with a Ranger contract and I wouldn't settle for less. Then they told me that 91B and 91C got merged into 91W so I took that MOS. Then I wanted Ranger but they told me they don't give Ranger contracts with this MOS anymore. I walked out again after that. I wanted to go Ranger as a way of making SF later on. So then they showed me this Option 70 and I loved it. I took it right away. I could have just volunteered for Ranger school once I was in, but I wanted something in writing. The MEPS counselor told me this option was rare and actually told me to tell my friends "I got what I wanted" when I left the room and not tell them about the option. That had me kind of suspicious at first but then I realized that the guys I had went up to MEPS with weren't exactly "winners". My recruiter thinks my ASVAB score had something to do with them offering it to me but I don't know for sure.

As for you other question, I will have my hands full while waiting to become E-4(p). I have my 9 weeks of basic, 17 weeks of AIT, and then at least a year of on the job training. This works out good because it gives me more time to get ready. I also want to get PRK on my eyes before SFAS if possible. So I will have plenty to do.

What are your plans for enlisting?

Chris Mac

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If a man has nothing to die for, then he probably has nothing to live for.

[This message has been edited by Doc42 (edited 11-21-2001).]

Camwyn

21 November 2001, 16:08

I'm gathering pertinent info before I confront the dreaded RecruiterBeast.
I'm shooting for 11B/12B, the Option 70, Aiborne, and all the money I can wrestle out of em(Hey, no sense wasting it).
I'm heading to the recruiter the first of the New Year. Right now I'm a Golds Gym rat, trying to crank my APFT score as high as possible.
So, in an Option 70, you hang ten out in a regular unit 'till you have enough time in to qualify for SFAS. Then your unit must release you?

Camwyn

Chris Mac

21 November 2001, 17:31

Cam,

I *assume* that is what you would do. Not too sure about if your unit must release you or not. All it says is that once you meet the requirements that you can attend SFAS. Best I can do for ya is to call my recruiter and ask so I'll have to get back to ya on this one. Maybe the SF recruiter could answer your questions better. All you have to do is ask.
The number for the SF recruiter is 910-432-1818.

Chris Mac

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If a man has nothing to die for, then he probably has nothing to live for.

DIRSUP KORLING

21 November 2001, 21:43

er...can't anyone in the army who is E-4(p) attend SFAS? The "Option 70" bit sounds fishy to me, but then again I'm in the Navy, not the Army. Sounds to me like you got guranteed a school you could have tried out for anyways.

The "SF baby" contract that people are talking about right now involves going straight to SFAS upon completion of your initial entry training (bootcamp, jump school, etc.).

mario

para325air

21 November 2001, 22:16

Originally posted by breakfall:
Stupid question but ...

does E-4 promotable mean promotable TO E-4 or FROM E-4 to E-5. I could never figure that out.

E4(P) means that an E4 is promotable to E5. Promotions to E5 and E6 are done on a point system. Points are awarded for schools, awards, points issued by the promotion board, etc... DA then determines the number of E5's that can/need be promoted and works the points out to promote that amount.

First, the promotion board through recommendation of the Chain of Command deems you promotable. Thats what the (P) stands for. Then your points are counted and if you have PLDC, your promoted. If you have 460 points and DA has determined your MOS at 670, you may be promotable, but you are not promoted.

DK, some MOS's are not allowed to attend SFAS do to manpower problems and the Option 70 was confirmed with members of this board if I remember correctly.

Camwyn, if your going 11B/12B, odds are that there will be no Option 70 for those MOS's. When you become an E4(P), apply for SFAS. If accepted, you go prove yourself. Although, expect this to change soon. With the SF Babies, I would imagine the application process is going to change. I would expect that initial enlistment soldiers will be required to maintain thier specific MOS for a period of time as not to create a void of a sudden influx of applicants.

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Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

DIRSUP KORLING

22 November 2001, 04:02

Originally posted by para325air:

DK, some MOS's are not allowed to attend SFAS do to manpower problems and the Option 70 was confirmed with members of this board if I remember correctly.

roger that

breakfall

24 November 2001, 02:47

Thanks for clearing that up para.

Igo 92R

24 November 2001, 12:49

Chris Mac,
When do you report for basic and where?

Geno

24 November 2001, 14:28

I'm sorry guys but the idea of SF as an entry level position makes me sick. SF is supposed to be the cream of the crop of the Army and now they're lowering it's standards. I'm not in the army yet but I do have an option 20 contract, about to go in by this summer. Probably like many others I was hoping to work my way up to one day be like the SF guys. I'm sorry but this is just complete BS. There's no point in changing the SFAS in any way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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~RANGERS LEAD THE WAY~

Bro

24 November 2001, 19:08

hugh_ct is absolutely right. If you are in the 98 series, you have a 0.00% chance of getting released anywhere high-speed. This is from personally knowing a few hundred 98's who are getting deep dicked, but then again, I could be wrong, right?

dirsup- I would highly recommend 37F for you, if you want to go a high-speed route. There's quite a few SFers who were former PSYOPers, and it's interesting work, too. Especially with your KP proficiency, that's an extra bonus to have. Good luck.

-Bro

longrange1947

24 November 2001, 22:22

I'm going to agree with TonyY, what the f**k was so bad about 60s and 70s SF? I came in when a guy in a funny green hat told me I wasn't good enough for his unit while I was in AIT. Took 6 hours of exams, passed an interview, and wound up in jump school and then SF training. Spent the most misaerable time of my life under a poncho at McKall. There were no buildings back in the 60s and early 70s, only your poncho. Like sleep, don't get picked as the PL or APL as you had a choice of sleep, eat, or you were planning your next mission which was 2 hours after your last. We had over half quit and a bunch that failed. Our GT was mandated at 110 and NO exceptions.

Now there are no exams, no quiting, and practiculy no failures.

SFAS was the WORSE thing to happen to SF training. The agreement was that if SFAS was instituted then there would be no failures during phase I. Well that meant if they did not fail or quite in selection then they got a by. I have seen them BEG guys not to quit as it would ruin their percentages. During the 60s and 70s they did not give a rats but whether you quit or not. There were orders on the Company bulletin board that only had your name, rank, service number, and date missing. They were orders for the 82nd Replacement Company. But by god you were qualified!

Now hmmmp. There are good ones coming out but there are guys that have quit and then spent three nights in a warm hut to get it togehter and they are back in. So much for Selection.

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Hold Hard Guys

Rick B

[This message has been edited by longrange1947 (edited 11-24-2001).]

para325air

24 November 2001, 23:05

Originally posted by Geno:
I'm sorry guys but the idea of SF as an entry level position makes me sick. SF is supposed to be the cream of the crop of the Army and now they're lowering it's standards. I'm not in the army yet but I do have an option 20 contract, about to go in by this summer. Probably like many others I was hoping to work my way up to one day be like the SF guys. I'm sorry but this is just complete BS. There's no point in changing the SFAS in any way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Geno,

Sorry bud...you don't have a clue. Wait until you are in the military before you start making judgement calls about how something works. Your statements show that you do not know the true purpose of SFAS and how it works. If they only took the pre-made badasses, support personnel would not have a chance to compete against the combat arms guys. A cook could never have a chance to be a Weapons Sergeant. SFAS looks at a soldiers ability to learn and how mentally tough he is. He will learn what he needs to know during Q course. If a private is mentally tough, commited, and able to learn, why should he be disqualified because of his rank? One of the primary reasons has probably been retention. Another, to come to the course with an understanding and experience in core skills, i.e. shooting, land nav, commo, etc... It is not because he is the toughest MoFo to walk the face of the earth.

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Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

Tracy

26 November 2001, 13:34

The reason I preferred SFAS over the old Phase 1 SFQC was that selection and training were separated. My experience with SFAS graduates ended in October 1993 when I retired.

From 1989 till 1993, I was very impressed with graduates coming from SFQC. The selection course weeded out the majority of personnel, allowing Phase 1 to focus on MOI, Fieldcraft, Land Nav, SUT, and Patrolling. I liked what I got coming to my teams.

I had two SF personnel, one from the 70s and one from the 80s, that I had to discharge from the Army. The 70s graduate, believe-it-or-not, could NOT read a map. We took him into the Ed Center at Bad Tolz for a reading comprehension test. He failed. He was discharged for the good of the Army.

The 80s graduate, had similar problems, but 5th Group was so hard-up for troops, the Groups S-1 kept sending this guy from from unit to unit every six months. Bob Grimsley (Tm Sgt) and I finally talked to some other Weapons folks from his class to find out what's up with him. Turns out that our Senior Weapons Sergeant was in the same study group as the doofus, who couldn't read, and helped him cheat on every single test (written and practical). Finally, he got involved in a domestic violence incident and we had the ammo to discharge him; after he got out of the hospital. His wife looked liked Xena, and was bad to the bone...

If SFAS is letting people ghost through, well then we screwed up again. I guess I should say it WAS a good program...

specwarnet

26 November 2001, 16:51

If you look at history you'll see this is normal for US special forces, unfortunately.
It sucks and I wish we could keep quality control up, but in times of peace the bean counters and doctrine writers win out over the warriors. Then a big war happens and the fat gets fried out for a while.
I just hope that it doesn't take massive losses of good people along with the fat for things to turn around.

ivan k

1 December 2001, 22:42

you wanabees should check out USAF Pararescue. PJ indoc has 8 classes per year. and this year on 2 occasions, 0 people graduated. in most others, 1-5 people graduate. indoc standards are never lowered and there are <300pj's.
after indoc you go straight to sf scuba, halo, sere, and the 18-d course. and then PJ tactics. PJ's are the most elite! www.usafpararescue.com (http://www.usafpararescue.com) for real info!

Greenhat

2 December 2001, 02:41

Not going to see Pararescue doing MTTs around the world.

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De Oppresso Liber

Chris Mac

2 December 2001, 19:15

Igo92R

Hey man, sorry it took so long to answer but I have been really busy as of late with personal things. But to answer your question, I get to basic on 6/17/02 at Fort Benning. Then its back to Ft. Sam for my medical training.

I was also reading that one of you guys thought that them handing out SFAS slots with contracts was bad because of no time in service. However I have a year and a half to 2 years before I can even go to SFAS. The reason it will take so long is that I have 9 weeks of basic, 17 weeks of AIT, and then a year or so of on the job training. Then I have Airborne school. So tack on about another month. Then you figure in any leave I might take. So time in service isn't really that big of a deal, and I don't think they give out Option 70's with Combat Arms MOS's because they can take Ranger slots instead. I wanted a Ranger contract originally but, as I said in my previous posts, the MOS I chose can't receive Ranger contracts anymore and I wanted something in writing. Now I look at all this as a blessing because it will give me more time to get used to the military and in great shape as well. Not to mention get my A&P down like Doc42 always tells me to do. So I don't look at it as a bad thing at all.

Chris Mac

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If a man has nothing to die for, then he probably has nothing to live for.

Doc

2 December 2001, 22:51

Originally posted by ivan k:
you wanabees should check out USAF Pararescue. PJ indoc has 8 classes per year. and this year on 2 occasions, 0 people graduated. in most others, 1-5 people graduate. indoc standards are never lowered and there are <300pj's.
after indoc you go straight to sf scuba, halo, sere, and the 18-d course. and then PJ tactics. PJ's are the most elite! www.usafpararescue.com (http://www.usafpararescue.com) for real info!

Just to set the record straight.

PJ's don't go through the entire 18D course, only the first six months. There are six more months to complete to go through the entire MOS phase of 18D.

All 18D's go through SERE before graduation.

If any 18D wants to attend Scuba school, all he has to do is pass pre-scuba. The door is always open for 18DW7's.

HALO school is not impossible to get either. 2 out of 11 slots in each company are HALO slots. 18D's who pass SCUBA school get the nod quicker for HALO school where I work. Call it an incentive.

18D's can also attend Ranger School, SFAUAC, SFARTEC, SOTIC, JM and practicallyany school a 18B/C/E/F can go to.

Igo 92R

2 December 2001, 23:02

Chris Mac
No sweat,man. I guess I'll miss you by a week. I go to Benning 12Apr02. I'll be reporting to Ft. Gordon 17Jun 02. Airborne on 28Aug02. Just thought I might catch someone early ya'know.

ivan k

3 December 2001, 00:29

re: just to set the record straight

the part of 18d that pj's don't go to is teaching how to take xrays and all the other crap, basically to be a "male nurse".

PJ's already get the halo and scuba pay before even going to 18D(not just a chance to go to the school within 10 years of service). with PJ contract, you can go to SF scuba 16 weeks after you enlist. and PJ's have virtually no drop outs in any SF schools.
and PJ's constanty jump out of planes and mountain climb, and do night scuba jumps, as opposed to just treating some 3rd world patients.
PJ's also go to the ranger school(and you get it faster than as SF).

care to tell why there are lots of former rangers, sf, marines, and seals amongst PJ's? but once someone becomes a PJ, he'll never transfer to one of those inferiour units.
Ha
oh forgot to say, if you pass the 10wk PJ indoc, schools such as ranger and sf scuba are just "fun". while many experienced SFers have tough time in the scuba school even after the pre scuba.

Curtis Newkirk

3 December 2001, 00:53

Settle down Zummie, your on the Army thread. Lets not get into penus messuring contest.

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Nuck
"Defensor Brewus"
Defender of the beer

Snake

3 December 2001, 01:14

Curtis,
To hijack the topic for a bit, what the situation like on the ground in Korea. Been hearing rumors about big trouble brewing over there..

Snake
A/1/504th PIR

Marauder

3 December 2001, 01:42

Hey Ivan, you have a problem with "male nurses"?

Jeff Rambo

3 December 2001, 02:40

Anyone want to set the spread on betting what Ivan does for a living?

Dark Helmet

3 December 2001, 02:56

Originally posted by Jeff Rambo:
Anyone want to set the spread on betting what Ivan does for a living?

Grammar instructor?

Curtis Newkirk

3 December 2001, 02:58

Snake,
Nothing new. Couple of shots fired at the DMZ a few days back. It happens on a regular basis, but doesn't get a lot of CNN.
Hey, I'm Air Force. I'd be on the first plane out if I thought it was dangerous here....Right?

------------------
Nuck
"Defensor Brewus"
Defender of the beer

Gary

3 December 2001, 03:00

Originally posted by Jeff Rambo:
Anyone want to set the spread on betting what Ivan does for a living?

Well, he’s not an English Professor, that’s for sure.

NMBR5ML

3 December 2001, 03:07

Hey Ivan, the first part of the PJ mission statement is "to recover downed and injured aircrew members in austere and non-permissive environments".

Not sure about an Army 18D but I can assure you it would be something very different. Whatever gave you the idea to compare the two?

In any case, you're not a PJ, and it's really pathetic to see some guy on the web bragging about someone else's job. Why don't you brag about all the schools you went to for the mall security gig?

Flaherty

3 December 2001, 03:19

Originally posted by Jeff Rambo:
Anyone want to set the spread on betting what Ivan does for a living?

Herlihy Boy?
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/scripts/93hherlihy.phtml

[This message has been edited by Flaherty (edited 12-03-2001).]

Doc

3 December 2001, 09:32

Originally posted by ivan k:
re: just to set the record straight

the part of 18d that pj's don't go to is teaching how to take xrays and all the other crap, basically to be a "male nurse".

PJ's already get the halo and scuba pay before even going to 18D(not just a chance to go to the school within 10 years of service). with PJ contract, you can go to SF scuba 16 weeks after you enlist. and PJ's have virtually no drop outs in any SF schools.
and PJ's constanty jump out of planes and mountain climb, and do night scuba jumps, as opposed to just treating some 3rd world patients.
PJ's also go to the ranger school(and you get it faster than as SF).

care to tell why there are lots of former rangers, sf, marines, and seals amongst PJ's? but once someone becomes a PJ, he'll never transfer to one of those inferiour units.
Ha
oh forgot to say, if you pass the 10wk PJ indoc, schools such as ranger and sf scuba are just "fun". while many experienced SFers have tough time in the scuba school even after the pre scuba.

ivan k,

You're not a PJ and you're clueless. I especially liked the statement that PJ's think Ranger/SCUBA school are fun.

On a side note, I worked down at the 18D course years ago. We had a contest called "Best Medic". Basically it went like this. Teams of 3-4 medics from each service land navigated from one point on the ground to another. At each point they came to, they had a medical task to accomplish.

The PJ Teams didn't fair too well finding points on the ground. In fact the PJ Teams didn't find one point and we had to go looking for them. They were lost.

For future Best Medic contests we had to mix up the teams with a SF/Ranger medic on each team so that the PJ's could follow them and get to a point. Instructors hate looking for students after dark. If you don't believe me ask anyone that was at the JSOMTC when it first opened up and ask them about the competition.

Moral of the story.

You can be HALO/SCUBA or whatever else qualified but if you can't find an objective on the ground and accomplish your mission you're worthless. That rule applies to all services.

Sharky

3 December 2001, 09:56

I wasn't HALO nor SCUBA q'ed but give me an 8 digit grid on your ass anywhere in the world and I WILL find you. Does that mean I 'm not worthless even though I won't be HALOing in and STABOing out as the song says?

You fuckin kids kill me. You need to realize that HALO,HAHO,SCUBA,SDV's,AA,Airborne yada yada yada are all just ways to get to work. Nothing more. It may look cool when Charlie Sheen does it but it's rarely much fun in real life. Let me strap a T-10B (60 lbs.) and about 100 lbs of gear on your skinny little pimplefaced ass, take you NOE for a few hours after the inflight rig and you'll see how much fun it is. If you aint been there, if you ain't done it, shut the fuck up.

Good post Doc.

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F.I.D.O.

Ranger1

3 December 2001, 10:34

Not that posts like this 'dickheads's' (for 'dickhead' see:Ivan) aren't amusing, but is there some way to make the fields in the registration/profile process more inquistive and mandatory before people are allowed to post?

Not as in the 'secret squirrel' forums, but make everyone give a legit e-mail address, age (except Hazen), time period and branch of prior service (if any), etc. Only let folks post when they RECEIVE a password from an 'auto-response' to registering (which they would then have the option to change later)?

That way we can just ignore these 'dickheads' (see:Ivan, above)when we look on their profile and see that they're 12, and/or they'll be less likely to post BS 'cause we'd have their e-mail addresses. This isn't meant to discourage the kids that come on here with respect, asking legit, well thought out questions (that hopefully later go on to RIP / SFAS / BUDS. etc.). Just trying to put an extra barrier up for 'dickheads' (again, see:Ivan, above).

By the way Ivan, just in case you missed it with your keen intellect, masses of SpecOps experience and knowledge of of all things military; the affectionate term 'DICKHEAD' mentioned three times in the above paragraphs refers to you (I even spell checked it for you).

-Kirk

PS. Ivan, you're a 'dickhead', beat your face.

[This message has been edited by Kirk (edited 12-03-2001).]

Greenhat

3 December 2001, 10:46

Sharky,

Does jumping from an MC130 while still asleep from the Dramamine after an NOE through the White Mountains count? http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

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De Oppresso Liber

ivan k

3 December 2001, 11:01

to clear some things:
what's wrong with my grammar??
about the best medic contest. it's a great idea, but PJ's go to the 18d after af boot camp, indoc, scuba, and halo. they're not taught any land navigation there. when they go to the PJ tactics course, they're taught the stuff. though when they finish the pipeline, they will do a lot of iceclimbing in iceland or alaska and navigating to their victims from there.
and what about how PJ's outswim everybody at the sf scuba? huh huh
doc, i appreaciate your comments though, very good stories.

i'm going to PJ indoc this summer hopefully. so i'm no bonehead.
i didn't publish my email, because you can always ask for it...

hey assman(sharky), you should read That Others May Live, you may be enlightened, or "The Rescue Season".

Hooyah

ivan k

3 December 2001, 11:08

btw forgot to mention reason for the PJ post,
i just want other wannabees to know what PJ careerfield offers. Since SF are overhyped and inferiour you should really check this out. and pj's need some fine blokes!
Hooyah

Ranger1

3 December 2001, 11:15

Dickhead,

1.) Please let us know your reporting date for PJ indoc. Please provide all particulars. Full name, class number/unit, etc.

2.) Yes please, we'd absolutely love your e-mail address, and DOB, and anything else you've got the balls to post.

3.) I hope for the sake of our future downed aviators you become a bit more observant. Calling someone, (even if he wasn't a proven and respected BTDT on this board) that is an Administrator 'assman', just ain't too bright.

Can you hear the delete key creeping up on you and your access to this BBS? Sadly, you probably can't.

-Kirk

Over to you Sharkmeister. I hope you get there before the other Administrators do just so you have the satisfaction.

ivan k

3 December 2001, 11:28

hey limey,
first you're a hospitalit consultant hahaha(i'm not the one who started the flames and even ignored your calling me a dickhead). second i called shark an assman because he was talking about my ass. third, what the fuck are you doing on the SOF board?? fat bean tasting limey.

and there is no reason for me to give any of that info, since i'm not an operator. i can give that when i actually pass the toughest school in western military.

england must be the most rotten nation on earth.

HOOYAH!

mtech_81

3 December 2001, 11:45

I'm taking bets that "ivan k" is perpetual SOCNET punching bag "borya00", aka "soldat_sf", "xman3" over on Getfitnow.com. I don't think I'm forgetting anywhere.

Ranger1

3 December 2001, 11:57

Dickhead,

I've always actually been quite fond of England; ever since I jumped in to Sculthorp Airbase right outside of Kings Lynn in mid-89 with the rest of B Co 3/75.

I'm guessing you were about 6.

You don't have to be an operator to have an e-mail address, or a phone number, or a real name. Post 'em badass. Word of advice, you better do it quick.

-Kirk

Greenhat

3 December 2001, 12:30

Ivan (Dickhead)

Let me get this straight. You haven't done SHIT yet, and you're here posting your busy little ass off about how high-speed PJs are. Do you think that some of us might know some PJs? That we might have dealt with more AF Special Operations people than you have ever even considered exist?

This forum is called "Special Forces". That is what it is for. If someone is interested in the Air Force Special Operations career choices, they can ask in the AFNET forums. There is even a PJ forum.

Now, you go take your shot at becoming a PJ. And when you have failed because you have a sorry ass attitude and obviously have no clue as to what teamwork is about, you come on back and tell us about how tough you are, and how elite, yada, yada, yada.

Oh, and your grammar? Rates at about sixth grade level.

------------------
Pugnare, Fornicare, Autmori

[This message has been edited by Greenhat (edited 12-03-2001).]

Doogie321

3 December 2001, 12:52

Originally posted by ivan k:
hey limey,
first you're a hospitalit consultant hahaha(i'm not the one who started the flames and even ignored your calling me a dickhead). second i called shark an assman because he was talking about my ass. third, what the fuck are you doing on the SOF board?? fat bean tasting limey.

and there is no reason for me to give any of that info, since i'm not an operator. i can give that when i actually pass the toughest school in western military.

england must be the most rotten nation on earth.

HOOYAH!

Yawn....

Could someone rattle the handle? I think that the crapper is stuck again.

BTAR

Tracy

3 December 2001, 13:23

Ivan:

Your posts just reinforce what I've always felt, no one should be allowed to come right from civvie street to Special Operations.

Every skill you tout is nothing more than a ride to work. Yet leadership schools like Ranger School and others are vilified.

Your responses remind me of Colonel Harry Sumner who had an opportunity to talk to some North Vietnamese Officers after the War. He told the Viets that the United States won almost every single tactical engagement during the war. The Vietnamese General looked at him and said "That's true, and it's also irrelevent; we occupied South Vietnam".

OK, you want an Army guy to admit PJs are the baddest MFs on the planet? How's this: "Tracy-Paul ********** says the PJs are the best-trained operators in the world."

There, you feel better? Here's another one: Special Forcial Forces, Force Recon, Rangers and Infantry occupy Afghanistan, and continue to carry out our National Will.

Which statement is irrelevent?

Ask yourself this question: Can all of the PJs on active duty right now perform the missions assigned to Force Recon, Special Forces and SEALs? If so, why aren't they doing that right now? If they are the ultimate warriors YOU claim they are, why aren't you one of them? Why are you coming here, talking trash, when you should be on the phone to your senator DEMANDING that they put the best in this fight so we can win and go home by Christmas?

You're just a frightened little child who uses the anomnity of the internet to taunt those who passed the test.

I like PJs, because there's never enough medics when the sh*t hits the fan. I really don't care what branch of service they came from, how many skydives they got, or when was the last time they scaled an ice wall.

If you were my son, I'd bitch-slap you into next week for those remarks.

BTW, I'm a retired SF Warrant Officer, and I'm currently an Air Force Dependent, living on an Air Force Base, married to an Air Force Nurse, who was decorated for saving the lives of 5 foreign nationals, as the only medical person on site after an accident, all of whom were critical care cases, and all she had was two vehicle first-aid kits.

How many lives have you saved, little boy?

ivan k

3 December 2001, 13:52

Tracy,
honestly, i posted my message about PJ's to get responses such as yours and doc's. Also when i posted it i forgot about the actual war. meaning when there is no war, PJ's perform rescues from highest peak of Alaska. and i just didn't like that everyone talks about SF and not PJ's.

indoc allows people off the street, but most fail it. if they do pass it, they will have a lot of time to mature during the pipeline. and after 4 years of service a PJ will have experience, while a soldier will only be trying out for SFAS. don't see what's wrong with allowing people off the street. if they think it's just about jumping and swimming, they just won't pass the pipeline.

could someone tell me where i have grammatical errors?? i just don't see any.

Sharky

3 December 2001, 14:05

Your posts are amusing to say the very least. You've never even been in the service yet you talk trash to an active SF soldier who has more time under canopy than you have on the planet.

Tell you what, killer, go take your flintstones chewables and your Ritalin , tell all your high school buddies what a tough guy you are gonna be someday, keep flexing your 110 lbs of baby fat and a bird chest in the mirror, puff on your inhaler, watch MTV Road rules, play with your playstation2, beat off to the sears catalog and the latest issue of Soldier of Fiction, dream at night of being something besides a waste of semen and pray for the acne to go away so you might be able to at least pay for pussy one day. Hopefully, your parents wont reproduce anymore.

You wouldn't make a pimple on a PJ's ass kiddo, let alone an SF troopers. What you can only dream, read books and talk shit on the internet about, we've already done day in and day out for years. (Yawn) You're not even worth the time it took me to post this, son.
The only reason I'm not booting your puberty-stricken ass is because the boys around here need a chew-toy to play with sometimes so they don't hurt someone who might contribute something useful to society someday by accident. You don't fall into that category. Your category should read, "Genetic Debris". You are dismissed.

------------------
F.I.D.O.

Stampee

3 December 2001, 14:08

Dickhead,

I guess some people with self-esteem issues have to go around and scream from the roof tops about how "great" they are.

Everything you've boasted about has given me more respect for Quiet Professionals and their attitudes. I would never want to join the PJ's, or the AF, for the simple fact that someday I might meet you somewhere.

Dan

Snake

3 December 2001, 14:36

Originally posted by ivan k:
and i just didn't like that everyone talks about SF and not PJ's.
.

...On the SF -Board-? Go figure. Son, Situational Awareness is a lifesaver.

Snake
A/1/504th PIR

Tracy

3 December 2001, 14:56

Originally posted by ivan k:
Tracy,
...and i just didn't like that everyone talks about SF and not PJ's.

...and after 4 years of service a PJ will have experience, while a soldier will only be trying out for SFAS...

This is an SF Forum, what the hell do you think we're going to talk about? Bridging units?

First, all YOU talk about is jumping and swimming, not us.

Second, I gave you what you wanted, for someone in the Army to say PJs are better. So what are you bitching about now?

Third, If you don't like 'everyone' talking about SF and not PJs, go to <A HREF="http://www.specialtactics.com" TARGET=_blank> www.specialtactics.com. (http://www.specialtactics.com</A>.) That's the 'official' PJ/CCT web site. I understand they talk quite a bit about PJs.

Fourth, what makes you think four years of experience as a PJ makes you a better individual than a soldier trying out for SFAS? Considering you've done nothing yourself.

Do you know how many real-world operations SF alone performs each year? 300+. The only difference between regular operations and this war is that CNN is covering the war.

Do you who has the highest op-tempo in the world? The C-17 Squadrons at Charleston AFB. Those folks are real-world busy 24/7; and they don't have time to scale ice walls, skydive, or see their families. Even SF and PJs get stand-down time, they don't; and the rest of Air Mobility Command is pretty freaking busy too.

Special Forces is one of the very few organizations that goes into budget talks with after-action reports and foreign requests for assistance; not hypothetical scenarios, war plans, or studies. Just what they've done in the last year, and what they're doing in future. No brag, just facts.

BTW, every PJ, SEAL Corpsman, and Force Recon Corpsman I ever spoke to had nothing but the highest respect for SF Medics and their skills.

Regarding your grammar, if you can't see your mistakes and correct them, you're hopeless.

[This message has been edited by Tracy (edited 12-03-2001).]

RLK

3 December 2001, 16:30

Tracy, not all of us are that bad, and assuming ivan actually puts up, (Which I doubt will happen.)he'll probably get smoked anyway.

Ivan, you're spouting off about shit you have no clue about. (PJ's through Ranger. WTF?) The fact that most of the people on these board have BTDT should instill a sense of respect in you. The fact you haven't done jack shit yet should instill even more respect in you as well as an air of caution. Guess not.

Post the day you begin indoc. Nothing more. If you make it through, you're either a legitimately hard mofo,(I doubt it.) or the PJ course is overrated.(Which I also doubt.)

P.S. You're a dickhead.

Jeff Rambo

3 December 2001, 16:31

We've all been guilty of talking out of our asses at one point in our lives, intoxicated or otherwise... But I haven't seen someone spew so much out of their ass in a single thread since HSDROPOUTHATER. Good job Ivan.

You have a problem with SF being the topic eh? Did you not realize this was the Special Forces forum? It clearly says it at the top of the page. Are you sure you're going to PARARESCUE INDOC? Don't see how you could of passed that other five letter kick in the nuts ... the A-S-V-A-B.

There is a PJ forum on SOCNET however you'll be more welcomed over at SpecialTactics.Net. Doubtful, but maybe TSgt Rosa can talk some sense into you.

Get a clue or get gone. I can expedite delivery on the latter.

Jeff Rambo

3 December 2001, 16:36

Originally posted by RLK:
(PJ's through Ranger. WTF?)

PJs do get slots to Ranger School.

Scotty

3 December 2001, 17:05

Guy, you're on... let a brother know.

ivan tell me whats wrong with this sentence, i cant figure it out.

Scotty

PS - Here's another hint, "OK, you want an Army guy to admit PJs are the baddest MFs on the planet? How's this: 'Tracy-Paul ********** says the PJs are the best-trained operators in the world.' That's an opinion, not really based on fact

'Here's another one: Special Forcial Forces, Force Recon, Rangers and Infantry occupy Afghanistan, and continue to carry out our National Will.' Now that there's a FACT, based on common knowledge and verifible evidence.

If you grasp this concept, you'll be one step closer to making your birth a little less of a mistake.

------------------
Some people call them "terrorists", these boys have simply been misguided

[This message has been edited by Scotty (edited 12-03-2001).]

RLK

3 December 2001, 18:06

Jefe, gotcha. If I made it through indoc, the last thing I'd want to do is go through the big suck. Jus' my $0.02

Tracy

3 December 2001, 19:06

Originally posted by RLK:
Tracy, not all of us are that bad, and assuming ivan actually puts up, (Which I doubt will happen.)he'll probably get smoked anyway...

I know, but this kid needed shutting up fast. My apologies for ragging on y'all, because you sure-as-hell didn't deserve it.

RLK

3 December 2001, 19:30

No problem Tracy. I understand you guys are trying to cure the children of the forums of their cranial rectus problem. Hell, if this one farted he'd blow his brains out.

Marauder

3 December 2001, 19:36

One million plus friggin' sperm and ivan is the one that got thru. And then all you fine folks from the South wonder why inbreeding is such a bad thing. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/wink.gif

Darwin must be rolling over in his grave with this specimen.

I'm gonna ask you one more time Dickhead, you have a problem with men being nurses?

------------------
Beatings shall continue until morale improves.

I may be dumb, but I can learn, and you'll STILL be ugly!

Doc

3 December 2001, 20:06

Half of the problem is ivan k. He's a young impressionable kid who doesn't know better.

The other half of the problem is actual PJ's making comments on web sites about things they have no clue of. They should know better, especially when the one who makes the comments works at the JSOMTC.

The post below was from the web site specialtactics.com which as stated previously
is a PJ web site.
http://www.specialtactics.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000319

You might recognize a fellow SOCNET citizen's call sign in there. I posted on that topic last week.

Curtis Newkirk

3 December 2001, 22:20

Tracy, I loved the "Ride to work" thing.
I can't believe you're married to an AF Nurse.....Is he cute?

Sorry, Had to do it.

------------------
Nuck
"Defensor Brewus"
Defender of the beer

Jeff Rambo

4 December 2001, 00:33

Originally posted by GUY JONES:
Ivan,

http://fs7.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/193516/iF7525AE5-6297-40AF-8D41-80535D6176C4.jpg

Scotty,

Good copy...I'll explain the particulars at Charlies.

I say we go to Benning for the premier of BHD and fuck with Poly and tell RM and his wife I said hello.

Jeff,

That was a low blow man...Give a brother a break! Pursuing a higher education at the age of 38 after spending X amount of years in the SPECOPS community is difficult! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

Keyboarding 101...

Instructor; Mr Jones, try not to look at the keyboard when typing.

Me; Yes maam! <thinking at the same time>, I just spent 11 hours on a five acre construction site...with 40 mi amigos...throwing up blocks and brick like it's going out of style...barely keeping up...and you want me to not look at the keyboard when typing...give me a fucking break!

Alot of senorita's in those types of classes...however, I'll stick with the the Combat Spanking...saves time, energy and money! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

Take care.

Just to clarify, my post was directed at Ivan K not RLK nor anyone else.

Where can I get a can, Guy?

ivan k

4 December 2001, 00:56

thanks for the link doc!
lots of good info.
oh, i only like female nurses.
and i'm not sure about my indoc date, because i'm a ncaa-1 breastroker. though i'm taking the past in this winter holidays.
p.s. i will not dignify the flamers with any answers, since i'm quiete a professional!

good bye
hooyah

Sharky

4 December 2001, 01:02

Originally posted by ivan k:
i will not dignify the flamers with any answers, since i'm quiete a professional!

Quiete a professional indeed...... http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/rolleyes.gif

------------------
F.I.D.O.

Chris Mac

4 December 2001, 01:17

Guys,

I hope you don't think all teenagers are "real winners" like super-dork here. Just kinda pisses me off because some of us actually use this board to post legitimate questions. It's quite enlightening to see the colorful adjectives and strategic wording that you use on "El Numbnuts". Thanks for the laughs.

Chris Mac

------------------
If a man has nothing to die for, then he probably has nothing to live for.

Billy L-bach

4 December 2001, 01:28

PJ indoc soon huh....

I cant wait!

I'll see you when you get to Yuma stud!
I hope you dont 'pull' at 3499 feet while I am in the air... (or 4501 feet for that matter)

Since everything is so easy for PJ's I wont have to worry about giving any 'pipeline' guys a break for the next year and a half...

good luck in the pipeline hero!

Whammer

4 December 2001, 01:36

Oh my God, I can't believe I missed this.

Ivan, are you for real? Seriously...

This isn't another Sharky/Poly/Tack head fake is it?

di

DIRSUP KORLING

4 December 2001, 03:30

Hey Ivan K,

You are the troll from getfitnow.com right? If so you have admitted you are a racist and a Jew hater. Doesn't that conflict with being a PJ? What happens when you have to rescue a black pilot? What if you end up doing training with IDF?

mario

RLK

4 December 2001, 08:08

[QUOTE]Originally posted by special ed. k:---
because i'm a ncaa-1 breastroker. (Me to but what's with the letters?)
p.s. i will not dignify the flamers with any answers,(Hey, don't ask, don't tell cupcake. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/wink.gif) since i'm quiete a professional!(So STFU! People have been trying to warn you, yet here you are...)

[This message has been edited by RLK (edited 12-04-2001).]

Tracy

4 December 2001, 12:46

Originally posted by Curtis Newkirk:
...I can't believe you're married to an AF Nurse.....Is he cute?...

Yuk it up, and you'll become the "Black and Blue Grunt"...

BTW, the only problem I have with male nurses is they don't exfoliate. I like 'em smooooth with purty lips.

Tracy

4 December 2001, 12:51

Yo, Administrators!

I have an idea: Can you ban Ivan K. from all forums EXCEPT the Pararescue forum?

If not, to quote Dogbert, "BEGONE, EVIL DEMON OF STUPIDITY! I BANISH THEE TO ACCOUNTING!!"

Ivan the chew toy isn't tasty anymore.

Overland

4 December 2001, 13:23

That Others May Brag?

Overland

Jeff Rambo

4 December 2001, 15:36

Na Na Naaaaaa Na ... Hey Hey Hey ... Gooooooodbye!

RLK

4 December 2001, 15:50

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RLK:
[QUOTE]So STFU! People have been trying to warn you, yet here you are...)

...and there you go. Talk about ruining a good thread. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/frown.gif

Billy wanna shoot me a line?

[This message has been edited by RLK (edited 12-04-2001).]

Curtis Newkirk

4 December 2001, 19:30

Damn Tracy, I was wondering when you'd get around to reading that. I was feeling kind of left out over here.

------------------
Nuck
"Defensor Brewus"
Defender of the beer

powderkeg

7 December 2001, 16:30

Originally posted by Chris Mac:
Also, making SFAS easier can be bad but if its still that way when I get there, rest assured that I will take advantage of every break that they give me.

Chris Mac

[/B]

And what kind of soldier would that make you?
SF needs men who aren't going to take the easy way out, they need the soldier who's going to take the hard road. If you make it into SF by cutting all of the corners do you really think you will be prepared for what you will have to do in a SF team. My guess would be no. My last comment is this: No, I don't serve in the Spec Ops community,(I hope to someday) but I do know what kind of soldier they need. If I had to serve in a ODA with someone like you I would request that either you or me be transfered. Hopefully you.

RLK

7 December 2001, 16:51

--------------------INCOMING!---(BOOM!

Sharky

7 December 2001, 21:31

-yawn- I'll let one of the SF'ers do it. Doc?

------------------
F.I.D.O.

para325air

7 December 2001, 23:42

LMAO

Guy that wasn't directed at you. He started his post as GUYS, well maybe it could be directed at you. hahahahahahahaha

------------------
Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

realpolypro

9 December 2001, 14:09

On Jan 18th I will have exactly 19 days left, so Come On Down! But think about it, How many PAX at 3rd and Regt? Plus RTB and all the guy's that hung around? I don't think BHD will be viewable for a few days. I say we go to Minot, ND to see it. As far as Ivan K, Yahoo addresses are a click away, the ban is useless. Banning an IP on dial-up is useless, they're pooled. Banning a block of IP's will keep out a lot of people. Banning an IP period doesn't work because I can get you 300 proxy addresses to plug in. Selective admission would be a nightmare. It's the "Net", let it roll...besides, what else would we talk about? http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

P.S. "What's worng with my grammer(sic), i just can't see it"...LOL!!!

------------------
My ISP said "If they connect to a known trojan port, you can rip out their hearts for all we care"

Chris Mac

9 December 2001, 15:46

Guy,

No disrespect to you man, but I prefer to work smarter and not harder. Don't get me wrong I know I will have more than enough hard work ahead of me. In a wierd way I can't wait until I leave for Basic to get it all started. This is just going to make it easier for me to excell(sp?) at what I want to do. I am assuming (key word) that the actual selection will be harder now. By that I mean because they are making it easier physically, I would think that they are looking at the individual more. For things like teamwork, pulling his own weight, helping out others, not being the first to throw his ass down on a break, and things of that sort. Alot of guys may make it physically but then not get picked up. Just because I might not run miles upon miles that you did in SFAS doesn't necessarily make me a bad soldier. I see you BTDT's talking about "my class was the last hard one" and I can see that statement is starting to become true with all the things they are doing. However, I am not going to ask them to smoke me more because its not as hard as it used to be. That would just be dumb. That was the point I was originally trying to get across. As far as not liking what you said, I don't like alot of things people tell me but if I can learn something from whatever you tell me, then keep it coming. You've already been through what I hope to accomplish later on in life so I just (usually) sit back and listen to what you have to say. Thanks for all the info you have given me through other posts as well.

Powderkeg,

If I meet all the requirements and get selected, then it makes me the same type of soldier that you would be if you got selected too. One that accomplished his goal and is willing to put in what it takes, and then some. You are correct when you say that SF needs men who aren't going to take the easy way out and they need the soldier who's going to take the hard road. Going for SF is probably one of the hardest roads most people will ever take. Listen to any of the guys who've been through it. They'll tell you its not all fun and by no means easy. So save your breath man, I know this already. As far as the comment about "If I had to serve in a ODA with someone like you I would request that either you or me be transfered. Hopefully you." Calm down there killer. You don't know anything about me other than what you have read on a computer, you have never carried out a conversation with me, and you have never even seen my work habits. So basically you know nothing about me or the way I do things. So because of those facts and due to the fact you are not a BTDT I don't really think you should be the one correcting me because in all actuality you DON'T know what it takes. Once you have gone through it like alot of these other guys have, then come back and tell me what I need to do. The other guys are free to tell me like it is because they put in their time and can tell me what I need or need not do. So I pose this question to you, Are you going to tell them during SFAS that you don't think its hard enough? If you do, then you are one brave man.

Take Care,
Chris Mac

powderkeg

9 December 2001, 17:10

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris Mac:
[B]Guy,

I prefer to work smarter and not harder. This is just going to make it easier for me to excell(sp?) at what I want to do.

Let me take this time to ask you a question about working smarter not harder. When you are conducting an operation in the field you come across a difficult situation.(Since I'm not good at coming up with realistic situations I won't bother with specifics.)You can either take the easy way out, ie give up and head back, or take the more difficult approach that will take longer and might be physically demanding and stressfull.
Which would you take?

Powderkeg,

If I meet all the requirements and get selected, then it makes me the same type of soldier that you would be if you got selected too.

No it wouldn't. I'm not going to say whether or not I would get into an SOF unit because I havn't been tested. Although if I participated in a selection and assessment course I would hope for and like the difficult challenges the instructors threw at me. I want it to be physically and mentally demanding. And if I fail at my attempts to succed in earning a place in the special ops communtiy, then so be it. At least I would know that I gave my all and didn't take the easy way out. The fact is if you take breaks and cut corners in training, the likelyness of doing that in the real world is high. Once again I obtained this knowledge by reading the posts from the other members of SOCNET. I clearly remember a thread about the soldier from the Army Of One commericals,(the one that was running away from is unit in the desert,)when people became informed of his attempts to get into Special Forces and eventually quit. He made some poor excuse of droping out because of "personal reasons". The BTDT of this forum jump on him and called him exactly what he was: a quiter. My understanding is if you can't hack the training there is no way you will be able to do the work in the Groups.

One more thing. I need some help from one of the administrators. I have had to reregister with SOCNET twice. Every time I post a topic or reply the computer says they have no one registered under my name. If anyone could explain this I would appreciate it. Thanks.

RLK

9 December 2001, 18:02

Anyone need a ruler?

9 December 2001, 18:36

Ivan K, Just to let you know, the PJs have had to lower their standards for the entry test as well. It's not a pass fail evolution anymore, now if you're times are slower you just lose points. Don't worry their still are young men out there that have the burning in their brains to join the elite and don't need those low standards to pass.

RLK

9 December 2001, 19:33

LG, say it ain't so.

Is their anyone who hasn't lowered their standards left?

[This message has been edited by RLK (edited 12-10-2001).]

Chris Mac

9 December 2001, 22:11

Instead of clogging up the board we can take this to e-mails. PowderKeg, mail is on the way.

Chris Mac

Marauder

10 December 2001, 05:20

Powderkeg;
Until such time as you have a "Saigon Electrical Works" patch on your shoulder, you have exactly zero right to talk shit to anyone about what it takes to be an SF trooper. In fact, if you were to have done any basic training, you might have an infintesmal bit more cred. Talking tough on a BB is all well and good, but it just makes you look like a little puppy trying to run with the big dogs.

Chris, just remember the Sharkman's greatest pearl of wisdom and FIDO. Hopefully in another couple of years down the road I'll see your ass in an ODA somewhere.

E19

10 December 2001, 12:04

Mission: ODA located in a small foreign country is tasked with taking down an enemy facility.

Situation: Facility is located on the far side of a large lake. A steep mountain (elevation 9,000 ft.) lies between the target and the ODA's base camp. The distance around the mountain is 35 miles you must pass through a small enemy occupied town to get to the lake. The team is on it's own, as there aren't any other US units in the area.

Possible methods:

1. Hump over the mountain and use rubber rafts to reach the facility.

2. Hump around the mountain and use rubber rafts to infiltrate the facility

3. Help a local farmer bale hay and load it into his barns (two days work for the team)in exchange for use of his stakebed truck.
Wearing civies, drive the truck (team in the back surrounded by hay bales) around the mountain, stopping at the restaurant in town for some hot chow, waiting for darkness to unload the rafts and infiltrate the facility.
Exfil by truck, stopping in town for some cold beer on the way back.

Question: Would using method
3 be taking the easy way out?

Opinion: Number 3 would be the SF way (working smarter not harder). This was the approach I was taught by some of the old SF troopers.

Chris Mac

10 December 2001, 16:24

Thanks for the encouragement Marauder. E19, that was what I was trying to say. Working smarter is not quitting. I am just not as good at writing what I am thinking as I thought I was. LOL that was a confusing sentence. Well I gotta get back to my school work. Later

Chris Mac

Wart_Hog197

10 December 2001, 22:15

Originally posted by LG:
Ivan K, Just to let you know, the PJs have had to lower their standards for the entry test as well. It's not a pass fail evolution anymore, now if you're times are slower you just lose points. Don't worry their still are young men out there that have the burning in their brains to join the elite and don't need those low standards to pass.

Fellow Lifeguard,
they did lower the PAST somewhat. it means you can now get into indoc with 11:30 run if you do better on the other parts. they also changed from 6? indoc class/year to 8. but it doesn't mean that standards have been lowered-out of those 8 classes this year there have been 16 graduates, some classes graduated 0. I don't know why they lowered the PAST standards(maybe 1 person out of 1000 will improve so much during indoc to make a difference), but i don't think it will have any effect since the whole INDOC is so much harder.
HOOYAH

p.s. how did i get this name sebastian palm and now warthog?? i registered as pj_rulez you have problems. you keep sending me other people's passwords

Chris Mac

10 December 2001, 22:43

Guy,

Thanks for the advice and info. I'm trying to get as ready as I can before I even leave because I am so afraid of failing some part and not being able to make it to an ODA on down the road. Although I am trying to slow myself down and concentrate on one thing at a time. Basic, AIT, Airborne, etc. Your post brought up a question though. You said it took 30 months for you to get through the Q course. Do they let you repeat parts if you don't succeed the first time? The reason I ask is because I KNOW that I am not the smartest person alive when I have to "Drink from the fire hose of knowledge" (As Doc42 so lovingly refers to it.) I am afraid I might miss something. Thanks.

Powderkeg they e-mail I sent to your adress was messed up. Got another?

--Chris