Old timers

[Dominique]

I've spoken to a couple of old Rangers that were around wehen the Ranger Battalions were first formed.

Both guys are Veitnam vets, and feel that the things have changed over the years. They feel that the Rangers have lost something over the years.

They complained that they whole Army has gotten soft, and that if we ever have to engage in a large scale war that the US is not prepared.


One of the guys has a son assigned to an EOD unit at benning and routely travels down there to visit him.

He was not happy with what he saw, he's constantly telling me stories of the "brown boot" Army.

Any one have any comments?

[Charlie]

I will agree that many things have changed over the years, some good, some bad. What you have to consider is that the civilian government in charge of the armed forces imposes a lot of changes that the military just has to swallow. Lowering recruitment levels, UN deployments and such affect everyone. I would say that the military can impose a different view depending on what base that you visit and within that base, different unit areas. Go to any Ranger area and you will see things vastly different than anywhere else in the army. People just don't get smoked in other units. I am not saying that to be a ranger, you have to get smoked, but it certainly puts you in a set frame of mind. I have also visited Benning and other posts and wonder at what I see. Seeing pvts mouthing off to NCO's, incomplete dress, lax attitude, more of a civilian in BDU's, than a grunt. This stuff is not tolerated in the battalions. Even "The Rock" now has open gates that anyone can just drive on to the post. Cutback and reductions affect everyone, for the bad.
I had a few old timers still around in the late eighties, and everyone respected these dudes and paid homage to them. The army is a continually evolving enity, the only thing that rangers, current and past, can do is spread their knowledge and personal experiances to those who were less fortunate to not have served with some of the best.

[abn_rngrr]

I arrived at 1/75 in Feb. 1980, just a little over 5 years after it was first formed. Even then the "old timers" complained how the Bns weren't what they used to be. And when I left 5 years later, I said the same thing. I think we all have a tendency to remember "the good old days" a little out of focus. Few of us were as tough or skilled as we would like to remeber, I think. To be sure missions and training methods change over time, resulting in the loss of some proficiency in some areas while gaining in others. In objective hindsight, he Ranger Bns were hotshit in '74 when first formed, '80 when I got there, '85 when I left, and still are today.

To put things in perspective, when the US airborne divisions were first raised circa WWII the "old timers" complained about the new training methods and a lack of discipline. Yet when scattered over many miles during air drops, it was this same training that was credited for the paratroops ability to join up in little groups, outside of standard infantry organisation, and kick butt.

[LOCHNESS2]

The "Tough Old Times" are the same in every unit and every branch of service. Unless people were using sticks and stones and lucky if knives were invented yet, they shouldn't talk about the "Tough Old Days". I have also thought that the military is now kindler and gentler than it used to be. That is probably because when you are 18, it is such a shock that when you look back on it nothing could ever be as hard. Just my .02 cents. LOCHNESS OUT

[Dominique]

When I first enter edthe NG we had a large number of Veitnam vets in the unit. The guys had a lot of knowledge, and experience to pass along, and for some reason they really were not the ones in instructor or SNCO positions.

I found it funny becuase most of them had a least a year of combat experience, and a lot of the SNCO's, and guys that were training cadre, had zero.

I remember a team leader named Jimmy Hines who showed us more about setting up an ambush, and breaking contact during an IAD in two days than I learned during the entire time I attended Light Leader. He cut you absolutely no slack, and was able to tell you why you should do this, that, and the other, and would relate stories of what happend to his friends when some one screwed up.

I remeber that when he was retiring it was the first time any of us found out he had been award a Bronze Star with valor. While assigned to an inf. scout plt., he was shot while draging a wounded M-60 gunner to safety, he then run back across an open field to recover the weapon. In the 5 years he was still in the unit he never once mentioned the incident. In fact he insisted that the person who should of been given a medal, was he RTO, who called in support, and repeatedly had to stand up under fire to fire flares to mark their position.

Not sure why I thew that in there, but oh well.