Input requested

[Bro]

Operators, Rangers, and the SO community:
I admire all your efforts in defending this great nation. Someday soon, I hope, I will be able to join your ranks. But first, I really need your advice and experience on a problem that has been with me for over a year. Believe me, I have thought about this long and hard. Trust me, I won't make a rash decision based on some stranger's opinion. I would say I know much more about what I am getting into than your average wannabe about the military, but that is conjecture. But I do need some authoritative guidance. My family, friends, and recruiters have helped somewhat, but the choice is ultimately mine. So help me if you can, I would greatly appreciate it.
Here is the situation: I am an 18 year old naturalized U.S. citizen, and I live in the Calif. bay area. I am extremely fluent in english and mandarin chinese, and rudimentary in latin. I scored 99 on the ASVAB, and passed my MEPS physical. I have vision correctable to 20/20 with the worst eye being exactly 20/200 and I am 5'2" and 102 lbs. I'm not sure exactly of the APFT scores, but I am definitely in excellent shape. I am currently a UCSD student majoring in PoliSci/International Relations minoring in Korean and I just finished my first year. It was a bitch but I did alright. I did crew (as a coxswain) and joined a fraternity. Right now, I am slated to be an AD enlisted man. I am supposed to be shipping out to Basic/OSUT in mid-august. My contract is 11X1 option 4 "infantry recruit" for a length of 4 yrs. I will most likely be stationed at Benning for a long long time. I will be entering as an E-2, perhaps an E-3 due to my college credits (around 50, i think). I may be able to postpone the contract 'till sometime next year (DEP w/drills or something). I know that I will probably be able to renegotiate my contract to 11X w/ Ranger option or 91B medic. SO here's the dilemma: I want to be a Ranger so bad I'm crazy enough to drop out of college to do the pipeline. If I don't join up and start now, it's something I know I'll regret for the rest of my life. I also know that if I do the Ranger thing and live the life others only dream about, that may be all I have after a 4 year stint, and I'll be assed-out and out of luck without any degree, and I would regret that too. But I've tasted what college life is like, and I really don't want to do three more (plus additional for grad school) years of the same routine, unless I have to. I applied and got into West Point my senior year, but my parents wouldn't let me go. I still yearn to attend West Point.
My dream, my ultimate goal would be to be a Batt. boy, then attend USMA, and be commissioned. Actually, unlike many of my Army compatriots, my intention is to have a career as an infantry officer's with enlisted experience. I could care less about the pay, or time, or recognition (okay, mabye the latter, beret and all). All I want is a chance to prove myself, and I'll die before I quit. Then again, there are two main factors restraining me from this course of action. 1) My common sense says that I'll never even make it past airborne, much less Ranger school. It also tells me that I'll be in for longer than I want, in places I'd rather not be. The pragmatic side of me demands that I forget my silly foolishness and finish my education, but the adventurous side is trying its damnest to convince me that I can still somehow get an education doing this... (USMA? possible or not?) and 2) There is no question that I will love the Army, at least, the high-speed portions. I have been used to spartan conditions and a stressful lifestyle. I am constantly seeking ways to push myself to my limits. But I am concerned (and i think rightfully so) that I might burn out. That is my greatest fear. That I, tired and hungry, won't be able to pull my weight when I am called upon to take someone else's slack. Honestly. Above all, that is my biggest concern. I enlisted with a buddy, my roommate and fraternity brother. He and I share very similar goals. We were going to be Rangers together. But he opted to bail out (i don't blame him). I am faced with braving unknown challenges alone, and am prepared to do that. I just don't want to quit on my buddies.
I just need to sort out my conflicting thoughts and do one thing, and do it well. Well, as you can see, I am spouting out a ton of useless crap, but I hope you have at least a rough idea of where I'm at. I know I will probably enlist sooner or later, I just need to know whether I should go off now or wait. If I can waited five years to apply to West Point, I certainly have the patience to wait till after three years of college before doing anything. But like I said before, my mind is deeply divided over this, and I would like some input. I hope to hear from many of you, both FNG's and BTDT's- Your opinion does count. Who knows, your advice may influence a future Ranger. Whatever happens, know that I intend to finish college before I'm 25 and pursue advanced degrees, all the while being an officer in the Army. Well, I think that does it. I want to hear what you think. If you are worried about posting personal stories or non-repeatable information, feel free to e-mail me at tcky@usa.com, or contact me on ICQ#: 6675565, or AIM: ilikesteak. I'd love to converse with genuine heroes. I hope I haven't left anything out, if so, please post. In short- the things I am most concerned about: finishing school, whether it be at UCSD or USMA; and enlisting vs. commissioning. Again, I really respect those on Socnet who have earnestly tried to answer my questions and those of other aspiring soldiers. Thanks for this great forum, and I look forward to your replies.

-BRO

p.s. any questions, suggestions, comments, or flames for me are welcome

[Ted]

Dude, go enlisted in the Rangers first. I'm now a commisioned officer (soon to be an M.D.), and being enlisted was one of the best things that I did in my life. Believe it or not, it helped with my medical school interviews after I got out and completed my degree. One interviewer had a brother who was a Ranger in 1st Batt. Another interviewer was enlisted in the Army during Vietnam. So, in both cases, the interviewer and I had plenty to talk about without even touching on medical topics.

I understand your concerns and self-doubts about how you will act under extreme stress. Everybody has them. Don't worry too much about it, you will be trained properly so that you will be an assest to your team. All that you have to do is do what you are trained to do.

I recommend going in as a medic (91B), that way you will have a useful civilian skill if you decide to get out.

Also, renegotiate your contract to guarantee Airborne/Ranger. It will be a lot harder to get Airborne school or get into a Ranger Bn after you enter the Army.

[TFRANGERMEMBER]

Sit down and be serious w/ yourself about what you want to do. Enlisting the Ranger option is a great thing, and it can be a great place to grow up. But it is also a very hard place to grow up. Lets face it (and the Rangers here will agree with me I am sure), life in the RGT is full of rewards, most of whcih are internal, bnut they are still rewards. You will have done what not everytone can do. But when you are done with your 4 years in the RGT you will be stronger, and have great leadership abilities, you will be able to do a lot better in the civilian sector because your understanding of what responsibility really is will be clear, you will find it easier to do little things that you once dragged ass before doing.

But, yes you will be 4 years behind your peers, and that is hard for SOME, not all, to overcome. That is more a mental challenge. You may very well be physically drained. RGT life is not all hooah glamor, and shoot em up. Its a lot of hard work, and very demanding on your body and your mind. And I have seen people leave the RGT after 4 years who are in their early 20s with the bodys of a 30 or 40 year old from the stress. I do think that we, as Rangers (scrolled NOT tabbed) need to let these kids know what they are getting into. It is not just the adds you see on tv, the army in general is a lot of BS building up. If I am I would suggest get your degree, that you will have forever. Then if you really want to go Ranger, try to get in as a medic. You will have spent 4 years in the RGT, and when you get out have so many marketable skills. Lets face it, shooting expert, ABN insertion, and being able to hump a 12 mile forced march is not what we woiuld call "marketable" in the civilian world for the most part.

Just my thoughts, Rangers, feel free to put yours in.

RLTW

[abn_rngrr]

If you're sure you want to be a Ranger, if you're sure you'll regret it if you don't, then sign on the dotted line. I'm all for education but it can wait. I went in at 17 years of age, then stayed for almost 9 years. When I ETS'd to go to school people told me I wouldn't make it, I'd been away too long. What I lacked in knowledge, I made up for in discipline. I'll be finishing up a PhD in engineering next month. At MIT.


Just about everything I've learned of intrinsic value in life I learned as a Ranger. The rest of it has just been technical details.

[PIMguy]

Bro,

I am not a Ranger so I'm not offering an opinion about if you can become a Ranger or what it is like. My only observation is that you seem more committed to the Rangers than to college. You use words such as "want" and "dream" when you talk about the Rangers and words like "if I have to" and "it was a bitch" when talking about college. Just from what you've written it sounds like your true desire is to Lead the Way.

[maniac]

Bro, I am also not a Ranger, but I think your best bet is to finish up your bachelor's degree. It will only take 3 more years (you can work on your Master's or PhD later). You're still plenty young and you can use the next 3 years to improve your fitness level and learn more about the Army and Rangers. Don't let anyone rush your decision. Just think in approx. 4 years you could have your degree AND (hopefully) you will be a Ranger. Good Luck.

[PY]

Bro,
It sounds like you really don't want to be in college right now. I was in the same boat a couple years ago and dropped out to enlist as a tanker. I am back in school now and appreciate it much more; consequently my grades are pretty high now. I have friends in the same situation who are not as book smart as I but who are doing well because of the discipline, maturity, and interpersonal skills they gained while in the military. My point is that college will always be there for you; you will get so much more out of it when you are truly ready to be there.

[NEUMATIK]

Bro,

I am neither a Ranger, nor am I SF.

If you do not have the fortitude finish college because “it’s the same routine,” then you will get sick of the Army BS really fast—four years is a looong time, to be messing around, not getting what you want out of life. If you only have three more years for your undergraduate, then knock it out! Why drop out of college to go back? Just to say, “I was prior enlisted?” If you really want to become an Infantry Officer, then why not pursue a commission through ROTC. Better yet, just go to USMA like YOU really want to. After gaining your commission, there will be plenty of opportunities to prove yourself—to become the HERO that you have always dreamed about becoming.

I am confused about one thing. Your parents wouldn’t let you go to USMA to become an officer, but they don’t mind if you drop out of UCSD to be a peon/private in the Army? I am assuming circumstances have changed for you, along with other factors that you did not post.

Anyway, feel free to contact me via AIM (dblue242), and I’ll do my best to give you some sound personal advice, along with the realities of being a young Airborne Infantryman.

NEUMATIK

[Sharky]

Well, here's my two cents and for the most part it's exactly what TFRangerMember told you. When I got out I was a hero and a living legend in my own mind. The trouble was that nobody in the civilian world was impressed or even gave a shit what I did in the military. Like the man said, blowing stuff up, jumping out of airplanes and killing people is not a skill that is in demand or even popular in the civilian world. Plus, I got married my last year in and had a son. So when I got out and started looking for a good job all I heard was "call us back when you get your degree". SO, I started out doing construction and odd jobs and was usually working three jobs to try to pay the bills and provide for my family. It was pretty tough going from being the best to being a minimum wage laborer and taking orders from some civilian shitbag alcoholic. Luckily, I am now in Federal Law Enforcement and have a great job that pays me very well to have fun. BUT, I was lucky. I have never regretted going to batt and I can honestly say it changed me for life. But, my advice is to stay in school and get your degree and then decide what you want to do. You will be 21 and more mature and will have more life experience to base your decision on. It's like TFR said, life in Batt is not all some big glorious shoot em up.The rewards are internal. In batt you will be a cherry for a long time until you have proven yourself and the rest of the Army wont like you because they are jealous and you did something they either could not do or didn't have the courage to try. The reason we say the rewards are internal is because this is something you have to do for yourself. Not to be a hero cause, believe me, besides yourself and your family not many people will give a damn. If you do decide to go in I agree that you should go into an MOS that will be a benefit to you when you get out. Medic sounds great. I planned on going to college when I got out but a wife and son will change your plans very quickly. If you do go in as a linedog go in with a plan for your future and stick with it. If you plan on making a career out of the army then the Ranger Batt is the only way to go as far as I am concerned. But, remember that if you get out, that beret and scroll don't mean a damn thing to the majority of the civilians who have never been there. I learned the hard way. It can be done but it ain't easy. Just look at all of your options before you commit and once you commit stick with it. One hundred percent and then some. RLTW

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F.I.D.O.

[Dark Helmet]

For what it is worth:

I can identify with feeling as though you are behind your peer group. I am now quite far ahead of them professionally, mainly due to my attitude.

I am a self-proclaimed poster-child for the GI Bill. 1/75 Rangers 86-89, seven years of college (during which I was broke) with an MBA, now the youngest Managing Director of my firm and run a consulting operation with 73 employees in two offices and a $9 million budget. Have a BMW (Ranger tab license plate on the front) and a 550 square foot office. I'm 33. When anyone asks where I grew up, I tell them "Hunter Army Airfield, GA".

I learned everything I really needed to know in BN. It has served me well thus far.

[Razor]

Bro,

Can't give you any insight on the Rgt thing, as I was only a school graduate, but I did the USMA/Infantry/SF thing. I had a good number of classmates that were prior service, several of them from the 75th. In fact, I'm going to see one of them who is in town tonight. He's a staff guy in 2d Batt, waiting to get a command slot soon. Another is a team leader in 7th Group at Bragg. What I'm trying to show you is your plan of going in as enlisted now, living the hard life with a young body, then going on to ROTC/OCS/USMA for a commission is well within the realm of possibility--I personally know several living examples. Yes, you will be older than your peers, but that will only hinder you if you let it. They are doing fine, and following some of the different paths you're considering. All of us 'kids' (the ones who went to USMA right out of high school) looked to our prior service classmates for insight into "real Army" subjects and the life we had signed up to live.

Oh, one thing--you may have to spend an additional year at the prep school between your enlisted time and entering USMA, but it'll be time well spent, as they have a very rigorous educational program to get you back into the going-to-school frame of mind.