Just Cause jump

[RangerCharlie]

not trying to step on anyone's toes, but was the 82nd's jump into panama necessary? Most of the planes dropped after the airfield was secure. Wouldn't it had been better to airland these guys and have a organized assault force ready to go? I know their schedule got screwed up and delayed, but an airland option had to be an contingency plan.

------------------
Aco 1/75 RGR
88-92

[TFRANGERMEMBER]

But when you have a DIV commanded by a General who wants to honor of having a unit get a "combat jump" then it happens.

RLTW

[wolfhound227]

If the 75th is gonna jump well then dang it
the 82nd's gotta get in on that too.
I wonder what the 82nd guys who had been there for most of the summer were feeling?
The best part of that story is the army dive
teams that spent weaks looking for all the equipment that went into the drink.
Still,Torrijos is a big place and that prerimeter needed to be re-inforced.

[This message has been edited by wolfhound227 (edited 06-10-2000).]

[RangerCharlie]

Couldn't have another Grenada repeat. Someone might wonder why we have airborne

[guardguy]

Originally posted by RangerCharlie:
Couldn't have another Grenada repeat. Someone might wonder why we have airborne

Landing the 82nd in planes would have taken too long to maintain suprise, and would have been dangerous. I refer you to Daniel Bolger's newest book, DEATHGROUND.
The 1st chapter is about the 82nd in Panama

[realpolypro]

Maintain surprise??? Torrijos was already secure when the airplane gang arrived. They did it for the stain.

Polypro

[RangerCharlie]

What's more dangerous? Airlanding, quick offload, and taking off leaving a combat ready organized group of troops behind or parachuting guys all over the place, dropping equipment in the water. It would have been different if the base was not secure already.

[Hardrock Charlie]

I was there. There was no need for them to jump.

[realpolypro]

Agreed.
Polypro

[guardguy]

Not to hurt feelings, but it is apparent that nobody here read DEATHGROUND, chapter 1, as I suggested.

1) Suprise- Not talking about suprise at the airport, but suprise for the ENTIRE operation. The airport was used as a staging base for units of the 82nd to be air assaulted to different locations across the Panamaian countryside. Having the Rangers take the time to clear the airfield (Like in Greneda) so C-141 Starlifters could land would have taken way too long, giving Panamanian Dignity Battalions plenty of time to prepare to defend, thus losing the element of suprise. This is why the Greneda invasion took so long. Or perhaps the Ding Batts would haved shaved off their distincitve beards and blended back into the populous, as they tried to do later. Either way things would have been tougher for the U.S.

2)Safety- Has anyone ever heard of FOD? Foreign Object Damage- essentailly crap sucked into jet engines. Rangers have a habit of making a mess. Days after the jump a hardy AH/MH-6 helicopter sucked some crap up and crashed resulting in US dead. And that was after the airfield was supposedly "cleared of Foreign Objects". Now imagine what would happen when you land numerous huge 4 engine C-141s down mere hours after the Rangers jumped? You've got objects from spent brass, to parachute canopies, and everything in between out there.

3)Contingency- You've got to have a back-up for everything right? What if the Rangers had not seized the airfield? Then you couldn't land the jets, consequently the follow-on missions would be delayed/screwed.

I salute all those who participated in Operation Just Cause. A drug lord is behind bars because of your efforts.
I also recommed DEATHGROUND by Daniel Bolger. It is a good examination of modern-day US infantry.

[wolfhound227]

I think we're just giving the 82nd a hard time.They had their work cut out for them at
Panama Viejo and the Marriott near there.
They did all right.

[realpolypro]

Well, I know 1st Sqd, 1st Plt, A Co, 1/75 Would disagree with their, shall we say, "performance" at Paitilla(sp?) on the 20th.
See Hardrock, you need to read the book!:-)

"Black on black, I want my baby back.." Or in this case, "Blue on blue, sorry 'bout shooting at you..."

Polypro

[maniac]

In two words: AIR ASSAULT!!!

[Sharky]

Gimme a break! Where do these guys come from? Einstein, they don't need to read a freakin book. THEY WERE THERE!!!!!! 100,99,98,97,96,breathe,95,94........relax,93...

------------------
F.I.D.O.

[RangerCharlie]

I agree about the possibility of FOD, but early that morning 141's were landing. All that I mentioned was that it should have been a contincency for them. When the shooting starts all plans fly out the window. We made mistakes and they made mistakes, war is when your training pays off or doesn't.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by realpolypro:
Well, I know 1st Sqd, 1st Plt, A Co, 1/75 Would .....

Just want to say I was a member of that squad (the "FIRST squad of the whole friggin Regiment")....but got out about four months before Panama.......

[realpolypro]

Tack, you HAD to know McNatt! Unless he was real cherry, that was his squad-A Team. He was the one who almost got tagged at Paitilla by "That Other Unit":-) Did you get the links I sent? Pretty funny huh?!

Polypro

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by realpolypro:
Tack, you HAD to know McNatt.....

I remember the name....but you know how it is when you are a tabbed E5 and all the new guys are nameless/faceless "hey yoos"....

Besides, although I was in 1/1/A/1/75 when I first got to HHAF until mid-87 or so (right after CL 13-87), the rest of my time was in WPNS (as a tabbed E4) and 2nd Sqd (as an E5). Moved to be the TNG/Schools NCO for A co, under the legendary then-1SG Mike Hall, mind you, after the jump injury and did that gig from Jan-Aug 89 until ETS. I know McNatt's name because I probably saw it on the order of merit list for hooah school....

Doubt I could pull him out of a crowd, though.....

[Ted]

I was in W/1/A/1/75 from 91-95. Iron Mike was the 1SG when I got there, he left about 93-94. Last I heard, he was the Regimental CSM.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by Ted:
I was in W/1/A/1/75 from 91-95. Iron Mike was the 1SG when I got there, he left about 93-94. Last I heard, he was the Regimental CSM.

Now that we have this thread TOTALLY off topic, let me keep it off course.....

Ted, I am pretty sure you and I have chatted before. Two guys that may ring a bell for you would be "Bullethead" Anderson (huge guy with an extra-thick skull) and John Tompkins. They were there your era. Bullethead was an RI for a while (mid-nineties) and Tompkins is now a 1SG at Department (sorry...old habits die hard)....errr...RTB. Matter of fact, he's right ACROSS THE STREET from our very own Polypro.

RCSM Hall recently stepped down as 75th RGT CSM and took a staff job at either JSOC or USASOC after serving as an 11B in the Regiment CONTINUOUSLY SINCE 1984. Iron Mike Hall is a one-of-a-kind Ranger. I would follow him to hell, and I know many others that would say the same, because he would bring us back in one piece.

Anyone have his departure speech? It was a doozy and should be posted on this board. His cogent, insightful, and experienced words regarding training Rangers and the NCO's role were immortalized out here in cyberspace recently, and should be posted in this forum for all to see. Good shit.

Poly - help a brother out? Still got it?



[This message has been edited by TackDaBoat (edited 06-11-2000).]

[RangerCharlie]

3rd Herd Ruled!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gomez was the man



------------------
Aco 1/75 RGR
88-92

[RangerCharlie]

Iron Mike is a great guy. he saved my butt many a times. Any word on his son?

[Ted]

I never heard SSG Anderson referred to as Bullethead before...(feeling really cherry now). Tompkins left just before I got to 1st plt. Tack, you may have run across my old roommate on the web, he just graduated from liars (sorry, Law) school and is now making good money evicting starving senior citizens from their homes. He goes by the name of Rick.

[RangerCharlie]

RTO's had it easy.......

[RangerCharlie]

Welsh ran like a girl.
Does law school count in California??

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by Ted:
I never heard SSG Anderson referred to as Bullethead before...(feeling really cherry now). Tompkins left just before I got to 1st plt. Tack, you may have run across my old roommate on the web, he just graduated from liars (sorry, Law) school and is now making good money evicting starving senior citizens from their homes. He goes by the name of Rick.

1. Bullethead was probably not called Bullethead by those of the lower rank structure because he would have ripped your left arm off and beat you with it. The name is fitting, though, eh?

2. Rick? Rick who?? Help me out. E-mail me privately if you prefer.....

[RangerCharlie]

Rick Welsh
RTO

[abn_rngrr]

Whadaya mean RTOs had it easy? I was SSG Don Lamica's RTO in 3/B 1/75 for about a year. On 12-milers, from start to finish, that guy went up and down the columns and I was right there with him. Must of covered double the distance. Then there was patrolling with the guy..... Would've loved the leisurely life of a gunner (60 or 90).

I think Lamica retired a SGM??

[RangerCharlie]

I was thinking of the rucksack flop and he can't pull security, he's the rto...

just kidding, humping and managing that radio had to be a bitch

[realpolypro]

Damn straight, loved the 90. Door bundle the &itch, follow it out "semi-hollywood", and swap it out every 3 miles! Of course there WERE the rounds. Then the 10 inch "mod" and the DMJP fiasco. You "Goose" gunners are getting over! http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

Polypro

[dj1leg]

Originally posted by RangerCharlie:
Iron Mike is a great guy. he saved my butt many a times. Any word on his son?

If you're talking about CSM Hall, who just went to JSOC at Bragg...and his son's name is Jeff, who got chained to a wheelchair at birth, then I can tell you his son is a-ok. I got to know him at the arcade on Benning, with some other friends. He is the funniest guy you'll ever meet.


-Jace

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by dj1leg:
If you're talking about CSM Hall, who just went to JSOC at Bragg...and his son's name is Jeff, who got chained to a wheelchair at birth, then I can tell you his son is a-ok.......

FYI, Jeff was born with spina bifida, a disease that causes the spinal column to develop outside the spinal cord. He was (and probably still is) a great kid. He walked with the aid of some pretty complex crutches in the late eighties, which was the last time I saw him. Glad he is well.