Scopes under $800 [Archive] - SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network

Tuukka

25 May 2003, 01:43

Gooch, having seen a number of Leopolds, ranging from Vari X-II to Mk4s, i believe the glass on the Meoptas is equal to, Long Range models atleast if even better.

We have heard reliable reports from customers who have tested Kahles and other good quality scopes against Meopta models and and the Czech scopes have performed well.

Would be interesting to see what is the price differences are there, comparing Leopold models of equal optical quality to the Meopta.

Gooch

25 May 2003, 01:55

I have a set of IOR binoculars that are good to go but the problem is that with the Euro scopes warranty work is a drag here in the US. Leupold is a breeze if you need it.

A Leupold is easy to change reticles, the scope tube diameters match up with the common rings available here etc. Nothing wrong with the Euro scopes but the logistics are easier here in the US with US scopes and the only US scopes worth a damn are Leupold and NightForce. Also with the Euro optics you get some wierd reticle and elevation and windage knob subtensions. Also many Euro scopes zoom thier reticles with the target image which is detrimental for longe range precision shooting as the reticle gets pretty thick when you zoom up.

Again I have no idea what the application of the scope in question will be for so its a wide open answer so far.

Tuukka

25 May 2003, 02:24

Well aware of the reticle issue, the newer 3000 series has the American style reticle.

They also have a selection of reticles to choose and a mil dot reticle is coming. Tube sizes are: 2000 series 1" and 3000 series 30mm.

These are not like IOR scopes, these look exactly like any scope from Schmidt & Bender for example...

mac3982

11 July 2003, 17:35

try to get your hands on a leupold.... do you want a fixed or a vari.... and what would the purpose....lrt or hunting...i use a 4.5 to 14 LRT on with tha mil dot retc. on a tuned chandler package it works .....extremly well... i kind of stay with leupolds because of the warrenty....if you break it you can take it just about anywhere or send it to leupold yourself and get it fixed......

Finger

12 July 2003, 09:02

I've seen all the pain and tears. If your rifle has three brand names on it, Remmington, Leupold and Badger, you will probably will be spared the above.

Good luck on your choice.

mac3982

13 July 2003, 23:26

gonna upgrade to the badgers soon everything else is good to go......if land2see can get ahold of a dealer demo scope he'll save alot of money or make niceie with the local dealer... and get him to bug his rep... for one.....

Sharky

13 July 2003, 23:42

Originally posted by Finger
I've seen all the pain and tears. If your rifle has three brand names on it, Remmington, Leupold and Badger, you will probably will be spared the above.

Good luck on your choice.

Yep.

mac3982

15 July 2003, 14:22

how about this for my next rifle...gonna get one done in the "new 300 short ultra mag......good balisticsand good energy down range.......and of course a remington!

Finger

15 July 2003, 17:43

Mac,
If you do, check Black Hills Ammo, if you already haven't. I have heard they have put some great ammo for the 300 Ultra.

I use their 223 and 308 match stuff with no complaints.

mac3982

16 July 2003, 01:23

thanks finger i use blackhills also.. .223 and .308 i got a model 7 with an answer brake in 300 short ultra mag... can't wait to get a heavy barrel and try the bad boy out...i spoke to the boys at reminton and they had some good things to say about the 173gr and the 200 or 220gr rounds.... out of the stock pss they played with. i hope to get better results from a tuned package... from the col. ... and i know i will.....

FJR

18 July 2003, 18:14

I have been debating a new scope purchase myself. I have narrowed it down to a Leupold 4.5-14x50 LR M1 with Premier Reticles Gen 2 mil dot, or a Nikon Tactical 4-16 mil dot. Both can be had for close to $800. Also if anyone is interested in getting high quality mounts/rings consider DD Ross products. They are of the highest quality.

Olive Drab

18 July 2003, 21:39

Originally posted by Land2Sea
I am looking for a scope for my Remmington 700 .308. A friend recommended a Horus, is anyone familiar with them? I can not spend more than $800. Thanks for any guidance!
the horus reticle cluttered the scope. go with a nice leupold LR scope or one of the mk4 scopes. Premier Reticles (http://www.premierreticles.com) has great prices on badger mounts rings and is THE place to buy leupold scopes or have them upgraded there. Check out some of their conversions for magnification and reticles. They are probably the only place that is able to do this kind of work and not void the Leupold warranty

mac3982

21 July 2003, 15:07

i believe if you go threw leupold to get the glass changed, it won't void the warranty.......i'm a shitty typer and a worser speller...........

Olive Drab

21 July 2003, 15:20

Originally posted by mac3982
i believe if you go threw leupold to get the glass changed its still covered under warrenty.........
why would going through the manufacture have a negative effect on the warranty?

mac3982

21 July 2003, 19:35

i've ran into people at the shop, that did it on their own and voided the warranty...goin to leupold the the last time i checked it was a couple of hundred dollars.. or so....

SeaSpectre

27 July 2003, 22:17

Gods man, you can get a Springfield Armory scope(complete with BDC for .308) for about $500 bucks.
However, on a tight budget I highly recommend the Bushnell Banner scopes. 3-9 variable, 40mm reticle. And they seem to handle multiple high-recoil shots pretty well. Testing one out as we speak.
Spectre out

mac3982

27 July 2003, 23:10

if you're gonna go with bushnell go with the elite series3200 or 4200.... springfield scopes blow......

Sharky

27 July 2003, 23:13

Originally posted by mac3982
... springfield scopes blow......

Yep.

SeaSpectre

28 July 2003, 00:06

blow? and you came to this conclusion because....?
I'm betting that I do a great deal more shooting that most folks(in here included). I would like to know what it is that makes the Springfield stuff suck----really like to know before I purchase one---I have been planning to put one on my varmint rifle.
Thanks, Spectre out

Jumper

28 July 2003, 00:17

Just my 2 cents but I shoot with a Leupold 3.5x10 tactical and have had 0 complaints. It runs well under $800- and you will not be disappointed. As far as the ammo goes, Black Hills .308 BTHP is what goes down range from my rifle. Very accurate, and again no complaints.

Like I said before, just my 2 cents... :cool:

Stay Safe....

mac3982

28 July 2003, 00:28

work in 2 gun shops....seen lots of problems with all kinds of scopes.. its just my 2 cents.... and i shoot alot... not as much as i like to but 2 to 3 times a week, (get free ammo) pay sucks but its the perks and if its not free its at cost.... my real job i work 9 days a month it leaves a lot of time to work on stuff in the armory...and do sometime on the range and other stuff as well. i use to types of scopes leupold and bushnell elite 3200 and got a 4200... and like to pop those little varmits myself tryin to put a doggin shoot together next yr!!!!!!!! sorry i rambled, craftmanship hold the scopes next to one another you'll see the diffrence. or if ya make it up to michigan i'll let ya shoot my shit.......

SeaSpectre

28 July 2003, 00:32

Originally posted by mac3982
work in 2 gun shops....seen lots of problems with all kinds of scopes.. its just my 2 cents.... and i shoot alot... not as much as i like to but 2 to 3 times a week, (get free ammo) pay sucks but its the perks and if its not free its at cost.... my real job i work 9 days a month it leaves a lot of time to work on stuff in the armory...and do sometime on the range and other stuff as well. i use to types of scopes leupold and bushnell elite 3200 and got a 4200... and like to pop those little varmits myself tryin to put a doggin shoot together next yr!!!!!!!!
I'm in on the doggie shoot(prairie dogs or coyotes?)
Anyway----you didn't answer my question.
Spectre out

mac3982

28 July 2003, 00:39

both doggs... define the question. the way the scopes are put together leupold wins hands down and the bushnells are not far behind and the cost is a factor try the bushnell.. and the warrenty is a factor i'll have to check on the springfield but i think it only for a 1 or 2 yrs.......

mac3982

28 July 2003, 01:08

at the shops i listen to what the coustomer wants or what they think they want... cost ... use... scopes are one of the few things that you get what you pay for, go cheap you get cheap....500 dollars is not cheap to me but, i want it to work and i've seen a lot of problems with those springfield scopes and how they function knobs suck adj the paralax or try to focus or"range" guess to mate dial the scope 100 or 200 or higher meters, it don't want to turn or put them on a gun and they just don't work had to sittin on the shelf for a yr and a half.....couldn't give them away....we usually burn threw stock in a month the reps love us......got a leupold 4.5 to 14 on a tuned chandler pss.and have had it out to 600 meters and it shot like a dream........the guy i got it from (chandler sniper) he shot it out to 1200 meters and it was good to go the only reason i have not shot that far with it out door place i go to is only up to 600meters

SeaSpectre

28 July 2003, 11:09

Thanks for the valuable insight. Much appreciated.
I am wanting a larger aperture scope for my Sako .17 Remington. I am currently shooting a Banner scope with a 40mm, I was thinking on maybe a 44mm. I hunt in high desert conditions where it is hot as Hades during the day, and the varmints prefer the early morning and late evening hours. Need the larger aperture for light gathering capability. Electronics are NOT an option in Idaho(illegal).
Again, thanks. Spectre out

mac3982

28 July 2003, 11:16

with bushnell and leupold you can get up to a 50mm but, if you want to save a couple of buck try the bushnell elites series they got 5 to 15 , 6- 18 and a 6.5 to 20 or 24 think.. to much shit on the brain to remember.....or you could try a scope called sightron made by nikon same glass as the pricey nikon scopes, got one on a ed clark 10/22 hvybbl. works well

longrange1947

28 July 2003, 13:33

Springfield blows because of glass aberrations, repeatablity, maintaining the zero, and quality control. Boxing one is an exercise in furtility.

I would look at the Leupold for under 800.00. They make several types and all are well constructed and stay put in recoil. The old problems of variables are now gone as is the problem with first focal plane. We have not gotten any zero shifts from powering up and down with first focal plane scopes.

Over 800 (or closer to 1200 and up) I would look at the S&B. Good scope and adjustments are in 1/3 moa which is no big deal. three clicks to the moa instead of 1 or 2 or 4. Just not enough to worry about and a function of training.

Don' thave that much time on a gun but I do have opinions. :D

Sharky

28 July 2003, 18:00

Originally posted by longrange1947
Don' thave that much time on a gun but I do have opinions. :D

What he was trying to say Mr. Spectre, is that he was probably sniping before you were born. And he's still doing it. Every day. To make the statement in here that you probably shoot more than anyone here is a pretty bold statement indeed. Especially when you have no idea who is in this forum.

My opinion of the scope comes from testing and evaluation of the scope at Sniper School as a favor to SA before the scope ever even came out on the market. I was an instructor there for a bit. The scope sucks for the very reasons already stated. The clicks aren't, the glass is poor quality, repeatability sucks and it wont hold a zero. Other than that I guess it is ok. Personally, I'd rather spend the extra 300 bucks on a quality scope. But, that's just my uninformed opinion. I defer to your experience.

SeaSpectre

29 July 2003, 00:58

Gawrsh! Whatever would I have done without an interpretation from you? (also betting the man wasn't sniping before I was born either, if he was----then HOOYAH to him.)
Yes, I do shoot an awfully lot(currently and whilst I was in service). Yes, generally I have a clue what I'm talking about when it comes to my favorite and beloved subject------firearms and their usage. However, I also enjoy getting good insight and views from others with the same interests.
Realizing you seem to be an antagonistic type of feller, I guess your the man.
Noone in here really "knows" who the others really are-----including you. So back the fuck off------never asked to start a pissing match.
Spectre out

Huey One Four

29 July 2003, 08:24

Subscribing. Interesting topic, too.

longrange1947

29 July 2003, 09:47

I can see that you are the butt head that I thought that you were. No YOU do not know who all is in here. We do know each other and you are right we do not know you. You sound as if you are one of the 16 yo that inhabit these places and act their age. If you are a shooter then fine, but learn not to throw crap around as you just did, as cooporation will dry up.

As far as my tme as a sniper and teaching it, I started in 68 and have been doing it for most of time since. I am currently a civilian instructor with SOTIC and helped start the course in 85. So based on your 16 yo attitude, it was interpolated that you were not even born when I started SOTIC in 85.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until your last post. Now go piss up a rope dick head. :mad:

J.Meoff

29 July 2003, 10:04

Spectreofafurryturd

I highly recommend the Springfield to you, it'd suit your personality. Not meant for serious use, and a waste of time.

My current boss previously worked for Springfield, gave me the skinny on their optics, and concurs.

Have the best day ever!

Sharky

29 July 2003, 11:34

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
also betting the man wasn't sniping before I was born either

Guess you lost that bet.

And yes, most of us in here that matter know exactly who the others are and their reputations. You're in my house. If you wish to stay you better learn some manners quickly. If not, I will ask you to leave. If you want to impress people with your varmint skills, try sniper country or military.com. Your choice.

mac3982

29 July 2003, 12:19

wow i work a 24hr shift and miss out, seaspectre tread lightly the men here play foooo keeps

frogstyle

29 July 2003, 12:44

SeaSpectre.

Go back to NavySeals.com where you can impress the 13 year old kids with your death dealing skills. They like you there. Go back or learn respect.

DFC5343

29 July 2003, 12:54

Your in need of some lessons in shit not to say. You are a watertaxi driver...nothing else. Fly straight or be banned back to the shitsite you came from.

B 2/75

29 July 2003, 13:07

Profile For SeaSpectre Date Registered: 07-27-2003
Status: FNG
Total Posts: 14 (8.56 posts per day)
Last Post: 07-29-2003 01:08 AM Anyone?
Contact SeaSpectre: Click here to email SeaSpectre
Send SeaSpectre a Private Message!
Homepage:
ICQ Number:
AOL Instant Messenger Handle:
Yahoo Instant Messenger Handle: swcl_hsb
Birthday September 8, 1969
Credentials SBU-13
Location Idaho
Interests motorcycles, guns, hunting, guns
Occupation driller
What a loser... This guy is just another dumbass punk who came in off the street. No sense in wasting electrons on this moron, folks.

Ace

29 July 2003, 13:10

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
.....also betting the man wasn't sniping before I was born either

Wow, you really don't know shit do you?

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
.....So back the fuck off------

LMAO, you tell 'em hero, don't put up that shit.

Let me give you a little advice.
I am sure by now someone has sent you a PM explaining how things work here, and in general who makes up this fine board.
I would suggest that you read and understand whatever was sent, understand that this is NOT military.com and check your attitude at the door. If not, unregister yourself, because honestly at this point, your not worth the time for me to do it for you.

DFC5343

29 July 2003, 13:24

Thats 3 admins asking you to fly straight...do it.

CPTAUSRET

29 July 2003, 13:27

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
Gawrsh! Whatever would I have done without an interpretation from you? (also betting the man wasn't sniping before I was born either

Realizing you seem to be an antagonistic type of feller, I guess your the man.
Noone in here really "knows" who the others really are-----including you. So back the fuck off------never asked to start a pissing match.
Spectre out

Talk about stepping on your dick:

Realize that you are on SOCNET, not some BS website:

Your fucked up attitude will gain you nothing here other than ridicule. You are in over your head kid, shut up and listen or go away:

Terry

Reaper375

29 July 2003, 13:33

Hey SeaSpanker... that's a helluvan attitude towards guys who answer your posts with honesty and don't sugar-coat the shit. If you're looking for the touchy-feely website, I think it's at www.mylittlepony.com. If you're gonna be a dick and piss off people with 10 times more experience than you, I'd strongly suggest just removing yourself.

You don't know the people on here. You don't know who you're talking to, so don't make any fucking stupid-ass assumptions.

You're in the middle of a minefield... tread lightly or you're gonna get your balls blown off.

Teutates

29 July 2003, 13:50

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
Noone in here really "knows" who the others really are-----including you. So back the fuck off------never asked to start a pissing match.
Spectre out

Be thankful I'm not an admin. Fucking dickhead.

CPTAUSRET

29 July 2003, 13:52

Originally posted by Teutates
Be thankful I'm not an admin. Fucking dickhead.

:D

mac3982

29 July 2003, 14:09

sea hag ever get the feelin you are been hunted.... i tried to tell ya...... you had to chum the waters didn't ya..

Huey One Four

29 July 2003, 14:11

You can just feel the love! :D

TigerHooter

29 July 2003, 14:43

Alright, back to the focus of the thread.
My question...

What is the best scope for a '1 shot, 1 kill' engagement of the dreaded PeeScepter?

Reaper375

29 July 2003, 15:17

Originally posted by mac3982
sea hag ever get the feelin you are been hunted.... i tried to tell ya...... you had to chum the waters didn't ya..

hahahahahahah.... Sea Hag....hahahaha.... I remember that...from Popeye... you sure you weren't a Sailor mick?

Doc

29 July 2003, 15:19

Originally posted by longrange1947
Don' thave that much time on a gun but I do have opinions. :D [/B]

Now that's a hoot.

Glad to see you back RB.

Doc

29 July 2003, 15:34

Originally posted by Teutates
Be thankful I'm not an admin. Fucking dickhead.

SeaSpectre is gone.

mac3982

29 July 2003, 16:47

salior.. bite me reaper375...... only when it came to a paycheck and i need a cab ride....hahahahahah

longrange1947

29 July 2003, 17:25

Tiger Hooter - Your question is hard to answer based on the information. I will try to give some generic (NO NOT Geriatric, I could just see some on this board ready to pounce on that one), answers.

If you want to play normal ranges then look at the Leupold M3LR with Gen II reticle. The power is fine for normal engagements and will not cause mirage or shake problems as the high power models will when set up wrong. This is the "less then 800 dollar solution. If you like to spend money then look at the Schmidt and Bender in the same pwer range, same reticle but for 1200 more in cost. Is it worth it? Depends on whether you go for the High priced Mercedes or simply the high end BMW. For my money, not worth the difference. (Eat me alive boys I'm awaiting! :D )

That scope will serve you well most situations. You can be anal and go M1LR but I doubt that most shooters will see the difference in a .25moa adjustment at 100 when a single click moves the bullet .25inch when the bullet diameter is .308. :rolleyes: Of course at range it is greater. At 800, the movement is all of 2 inches, and since I have never been able to shoot that close at 800 I do not go there.

NOW. Here is where the new S&B shines a it has a .5 moa scope that will show when you have gone 1 full revolution and that negates the embarrassment of shooting WAY over or under the target. their new PMII has .5 moa adjustments and with shims will do you good. Be prapared to lay out about 1200 to 2000 depenading on power and geegaws (luminated reticle comes to mind then the questionj is why?)

Heavy caliber longer ranges then look to the newer Leupold Vari X III in the 8.5 to 25 range with Gen II reticle. This In NOT for urban as the field of view SUCKS!

Again S&B does well.

As a side note you will notice I recommend only two scopes, I do not like the crystal companies scopes and they are too dam expensive. Leica gets glass from the same place as Leupold, WHY pay more.

Hell this should get some juices flowing. Thisnk I will now hide and let the incoming hit around me.

CPTAUSRET

29 July 2003, 17:29

longrange1947:

Rick, I wish you posted more often. I always learn something:

Terry

Reaper375

29 July 2003, 18:03

LR1947... your old student, Dave Nielsen says hi. Said to tell you thanks again for working with him.

Reaper375

29 July 2003, 18:03

LR1947... your old student, Dave Nielsen says hi. Said to tell you thanks again for working with him.

Special Forces

29 July 2003, 20:49

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
blow? and you came to this conclusion because....?
I'm betting that I do a great deal more shooting that most folks(in here included). I would like to know what it is that makes the Springfield stuff suck----really like to know before I purchase one---I have been planning to put one on my varmint rifle.
Thanks, Spectre out

Son, you have just demonstrated yourself to be one of the biggest asses ever to post on this board, and THAT is an accomplishment.

You are wrong, you are arrogant, you are full of shit, and now, you are gone.

The tribe has spoken.

Ain't SOCNET great.

Good to see you again, LR1947. What, no Nightforce fans?

TR

longrange1947

29 July 2003, 21:52

Reaper 375 - Tell Dave it was a pleasure to work with him. I would let him cover my six anytime.

Reaper - Night Force???? :p

Just my two cents :D

Also, how did you like the scope guy talk? I think he got cold feet and thought we would be insulted if he talked to us as he usually did in those seminars. Oh well. I know him personnay and he is a good guy doing a hard job.

mac3982

29 July 2003, 22:37

nightforce is a great scope don't know any reps that will give me the deals like i got on my leupolds, nightforce is still a great product....

Penishead

29 July 2003, 23:05

Originally posted by Sharky
What he was trying to say Mr. Spectre, is that he was probably sniping before you were born. And he's still doing it. Every day. To make the statement in here that you probably shoot more than anyone here is a pretty bold statement indeed. Especially when you have no idea who is in this forum.

My opinion of the scope comes from testing and evaluation of the scope at Sniper School as a favor to SA before the scope ever even came out on the market. I was an instructor there for a bit. The scope sucks for the very reasons already stated. The clicks aren't, the glass is poor quality, repeatability sucks and it wont hold a zero. Other than that I guess it is ok. Personally, I'd rather spend the extra 300 bucks on a quality scope. But, that's just my uninformed opinion. I defer to your experience.

Seems to me that ol' Sharky is the one who copped an attitude.
One has the right to defend oneself----don't they?
This was turning into a good interesting thread before a fly fell in the soup.
Spectre out

oh, banished? please

Olive Drab

29 July 2003, 23:11

Originally posted by The Reaper
Son, you have just demonstrated yourself to be one of the biggest asses ever to post on this board, and THAT is an accomplishment.

You are wrong, you are arrogant, you are full of shit, and now, you are gone.

The tribe has spoken.

Ain't SOCNET great.

Good to see you again, LR1947. What, no Nightforce fans?

TR
nightforce's price and screwy warranty rules keep me away. maybe later i will throw it on my .50 to replace my varix III LR scope

longrange1947

29 July 2003, 23:13

U r a joke aren't you. You coped the attitude child not anyone else. You assumed you were better then anyone else in this room and got squashed. So, just how old are you tiny tim? :mad:

Sharkey, you want to bet a 14 yo in a semi adult body? :D

Greenhat

29 July 2003, 23:25

Teutates

29 July 2003, 23:25

Originally posted by Deathhead
Seems to me that ol' Sharky is the one who copped an attitude.
One has the right to defend oneself----don't they?
This was turning into a good interesting thread before a fly fell in the soup.
Spectre out

oh, banished? please

Looks like dickhead is back.

Sharky has no need to defend his stand, but you do shit for brains.

Bye Dickhead.

Teutates
Master Sergeant
Special Forces (retired)

Reaper375

29 July 2003, 23:36

Well, at least he didn't post a thread in the SF room... that woulda been the triple-crown of dumbass achievements. hahahaha.

Hey DeskHead, you have a hunger to get your pee-pee whacked or something?

Sharky

29 July 2003, 23:47

You know there, Mr. "DeathHead" (that's kinda funny in itself), I'm not the one who banned you. I could have, but I chose not to. Instead I asked some of your Navy buds to have a word with you and thought that maybe you were just having a bad night or something. That is obviously not the case. I'm sure that on other sites where you hang out, such as that SEAL site, you are a big man. Here, you aint shit. I tried to warn you but you seem to be the sensitive type and got your feelers hurt. Tell you what, you apologize to Longrange1947 in particular and the other members here that you have offended in general, and I'll let you stay. You may actually learn something if you can lose the attitude and keep your mouth shut. There are probably more Distinguished shooters on this site than you have ever known. So, apologize, lose the attitude, and you can stay. Keep up the stupid shit, and I'll ban you so you wont be able to re-register under a new name next time. Your choice.

frogstyle

29 July 2003, 23:49

LOL!

WHat dicksmack.

Dark Helmet

29 July 2003, 23:54

Originally posted by Sharky
Tell you what, you apologize to Longrange1947 in particular and the other members here that you have offended in general, and I'll let you stay.

I had my God Gun out and was ready to frag his second alter-ego until I read the above. I am now pulling security and watching.

Sharky, your call.

Reaper375

30 July 2003, 00:02

waiting eagerly...

this is almost like being on an ambush... nobody fall asleep...

Sharky

30 July 2003, 00:07

I'M AWAKE!!! Oh....sorry.

frogstyle

30 July 2003, 00:09

Just to clarify...

This dude was NOT ever a SEAL. EVER.

Greenhat

30 July 2003, 00:24

ussfpa

30 July 2003, 01:28

to mop up the mess...us medics are good fer somethin!!! :D

Primum non Nocere

RsovRanger

30 July 2003, 02:00

fuck cleaning it up. the blood stains will leave an image burnt into the newbies minds that we are not the people with whom to fuck.

B 2/75

30 July 2003, 04:33

* SIGH * I suggested that this oxygen thief wasn't worth the effort to waste electrons over, but looks like you guys haven't had a good chew toy in a few weeks, LOL. Teeth sharpened up a bit? RSOV, you gotta good point, kinda like in the old Planet of the Apes part where they had the apes hung out on those X frames up on the cliffs for all to see... maybe we could do something similar... newbies have to negotiate a series of frames with mandatory reading pages to check off... one would be a mandatory hall of shame/fucknut/dickhead page (put yer ape scarecrows here!), after that they get the standard briefings on conduct, etc, then they get turned loose in the public area... Would be a one-time deal, a part of the registration process. How about it, admins?

Doogie320

30 July 2003, 08:40

I don't know anything about long-range shooting, but I do want to watch and see what happens next. I do know enough about some members of this board that the claim of shooting more than they isn't laughable, it is absurd. That'd be like saying you get laid more than Ron Jeremy.....

BTAR

RangerCharlie

30 July 2003, 09:26

maybe I missed something, but you guys are suggesting using a $800+ scope on a .17 or .22 varmit rifle?
I have a TASCO on my 10/22 that I use for ground hogs, and I rarely miss. No long distance here in the East.

Now if I was using it for life or death purposes then yes spend the money.

ussfpa

30 July 2003, 12:14

Originally posted by Doogie320
That'd be like saying you get laid more than Ron Jeremy.....

BTAR
Funny you should mention the hedgehog, we jusy saw him here in Hawaii (at the beach...ewww) with an absolute HAMMER hanging on to his hairy, undulating self...some things I will never understand :rolleyes:

Primum non Nocere

TigerHooter

30 July 2003, 12:23

Originally posted by RangerCharlie
I have a TASCO on my 10/22 that I use for ground hogs, and I rarely miss.
Off subject(s) a bit, but have you ever seen a groundhog climb a tree? I had a 40 acre 'farm' back in TN and hunted all the time. I had groundhogs a plenty when I first bought the place, but my dog loved hunting and killing "small furries", so decimated the GH population. He took off across a field one morning and chased one up a tree. From 300 yds away, it looked like a badger as it shot up the tree. I carried my 870 over and sure as shit, it was a GH. He treed two more over the years.

RC, I loved my 10/22 with a Tasco 4-9X40. I shot small shit & big out to 130 yards. Always wanted a long, heavy barrel!

B 2/75

30 July 2003, 12:56

Originally posted by Doogie320
That'd be like saying you get laid more than Ron Jeremy.....

BTAR

Bwahahahahahah......

Sharky

30 July 2003, 13:55

Originally posted by RangerCharlie
maybe I missed something, but you guys are suggesting using a $800+ scope on a .17 or .22 varmit rifle?
I have a TASCO on my 10/22 that I use for ground hogs, and I rarely miss. No long distance here in the East.

Now if I was using it for life or death purposes then yes spend the money.

No, actually we were discussing the merits or lack thereof, of Springfield Armory scopes. Then again, if he has the money to put an $800.00 scope on his .22, more power to him.

B 2/75

30 July 2003, 15:09

HEY..... I used to have a .22 single shot bolt action rifle with no magazine which had a 18" long 30X Unyrtl scope on it. It was the old type which would actually come out of battery with each shot. The scope was a beauty, actually a real work of art, and it was mounted for a summer on my old Anchutz 1407 three position small bore rifle. I used it with a buddy to shoot 300 meter prairie dogs... I'd go "pop.........pif", while he'd go "BOOMSPLAT" with his 7 mil Mag. Oklahoma is a hell of a place if yer a Ft. Sill, but you can always gig frogs (heaps) and shoot the P. dogs.

Well, I had fun with it, anyway. Maybe taxidriverboy can teach me how to do it better....

Sharky

30 July 2003, 15:32

We had some of those old scopes. Loosen one side and tighten the other to adjust it....LOL Then ram it back into battery after each shot. Those fuckers were about 3 feet long.....LOL

EchoFiveMike

30 July 2003, 18:07

You still see the Unertls, Lyman Supertargetspots and Redfield 3200's out there on the firing line. I've got an 18x Unertl that I throw on my .308 Win 40X when I feel nostalgic. They still work, but an internally adjusted scope is just so much easier.

Under $800, the aforementioned Leupolds are always a good buy, and to that I can add the Nikons, although the Nikon tactical is pushing that $800 upper boundary. The Nikons, other than the 6.5-20, have only the standard turrets with finger adjustable movement and no vernier scale. The 6.5-20 has target turrets. The clicks are true on the two I have, so far they hold up to 308 pounding, no sweat.

300m 22LR on p-dogs? You sir are truly daring. Did you need to steal an indirect sight off one of the cannons at Sill:) S/F...Ken M

EchoFiveMike

30 July 2003, 18:39

Don' thave that much time on a gun but I do have opinions.

Fucking Remington MIGHT have fired as many rounds as Mr Boucher, and they had a head start. But only a little bit, so I'm told;) S/F...Ken M

SeaSpectre

31 July 2003, 22:40

Howdy
Look, I never had any intention of offending anyone personally!
Particularly Mr. Boucher(if people would READ my post they would see that)
However, a respectful apology is in order from me-------I really did sound a bit brash. I must have been having an off-day at that time, because I generally don't come off that way.
Have heard nothing but good things about this place from a lot of good people, and wouldn't mind sticking 'er out a while------however, the name-calling is a bit on the juvenile side. Particularly the "water taxi driver" remarks-----a bit offensive to a whole community(just my opinion).
Sometimes as just a country-ass bumpkin(and a construction worker to boot), I have a tendency to be a bit abrasive----its only because thats how I am accustomed to talking(and being talked to) at work. I'll try and curb this behavior on the future. Please don't hold this foray into shit-bird mode affect your opinion of me.
*ducking for cover* Spectre out

longrange1947

31 July 2003, 23:00

I took no offense to your first post and was hinting at maybe your statement was broad and bold.

My offense was taken when you told a guy to fuck off. Now that was juvenile. THAT was what started the shit storm.

Stick around and listen and contribute where you can. You will find that this place is full of guys with more qualifications then you can shake a stick at and dam few, if any, are primadonnas about it. That may be what will throw off a new reader here.

By the by, if "water taxi driver" upset you, then maybe your skin isn't as thick as you think. You should hear some of the things I'm called. :)

SeaSpectre

31 July 2003, 23:03

Roger that longrange,
Skins plenty thick when it comes to a little friendly mud-slinging---it just looked like it was being used in a derogatory way.
Spectre out

Sharky

31 July 2003, 23:29

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
it just looked like it was being used in a derogatory way.

At the time it was......SBU (now SBT) are well respected here, and we have quite a few on this site. The remark was meant to be a hint to you that you are nothing special here. Almost everyone who has posted on this thread was either SF, Ranger, SEAL, Force, PJ, 160th, and in some cases, a combination of more than one. Most are either retired, or are Senior NCO's or Field Grade Officers still on AD. I'm glad to see your apology, but take responsibility for your actions. I dropped you a hint, you fired a HEAT round. Hence, the dogpile. Glad to see your apology though. You've got your second chance. Use it wisely. If it weren't for your SBU time you wouldn't have gotten it. All that said, welcome back.

mac3982

31 July 2003, 23:53

wow and back to the topic... scopes got an ed clark 10/22 and yes its got a leupold on it!

frogstyle

31 July 2003, 23:53

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
Roger that longrange,
Skins plenty thick when it comes to a little friendly mud-slinging---it just looked like it was being used in a derogatory way.
Spectre out

FUCK YOU!

Talk smack to Sharky? Go swallow fishing lures, asshole.

mac3982

31 July 2003, 23:57

frogstyle has a very valid point!!!!!

TigerHooter

1 August 2003, 00:15

Originally posted by frogstyle
FUCK YOU!

Talk smack to Sharky? Go swallow fishing lures, asshole.
he says as he silenly slithers into your BOAT.

SeaSpectre

1 August 2003, 00:19

Gosh----the frightened goose-bumps are starting to build, a cold shiver, the hand of death is sure to grip me anytime!
C'mon, give'er a rest for cryin' out loud.
Spectre out

mac3982

1 August 2003, 00:23

more gun talk please... or is this gonna get nasty again, i can sit back and watch!

SeaSpectre

1 August 2003, 01:15

Thanks mac
Anyway, where were we? You were telling me the downfalls of the Springfield Armory optics. Then this was followed up with some more good input saying the same.
Appreciate the input guys, I was going to buy one of these scopes-----but now I think I'll look elsewhere.
As I was saying before, I need something with a larger aperture than my current 40mm one(for light gathering capability).
Generally I have always kept to the cheaper "budget" scopes(po folks have po ways), but not entirely satisfied with the performance of these things in the twilight hours-----they generally have piss-poor clarity in the dim hours.
And, like Land2sea, I have to have one I can I can afford-----$800 bucks is a little radical(to me) for a scope on a rifle that cost half that.
Spectre out

mac3982

1 August 2003, 01:18

for the money and its warrenty bushnell, got an elite 3200 or 4200 50 mm obj. like 5to 15 or a 6 to 20 not sure on the power but its under 500.00 bones

Special Forces

2 August 2003, 00:24

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
Gosh----the frightened goose-bumps are starting to build, a cold shiver, the hand of death is sure to grip me anytime!
C'mon, give'er a rest for cryin' out loud.
Spectre out

Truer than you think.

Not everyone wanted to give you a second chance, given the magnitude of your error. Sharky is Santa here.

Don't blow it again.

TR

mac3982

2 August 2003, 09:16

sea specture just heed the warnin and move out, it will go alot better for ya! cause you'll lose the admins and the btdt's on this forum will not take shit from nobody! more gun talk...

Matchanu

2 August 2003, 14:59

Originally posted by SeaSpectre
Gosh----the frightened goose-bumps are starting to build, a cold shiver, the hand of death is sure to grip me anytime!
C'mon, give'er a rest for cryin' out loud.
Spectre out

Fucking shoe!

About the only thing you've ever shot in the military is your mouth.

Hey your boss is calling, wants you to clean out the shit buckets in the port-a-poties.

Matchanu

2 August 2003, 15:02

I've had a chance to use the Night Force Scope. I really liked it, esp. the illuminated reticle and the hollow mil dots. I don't care much for variable scopes though.

J.Meoff

2 August 2003, 15:40

I'll never get another non-illuminated scope.

The Vari-X III 1.5-5x duplex, illuminated, on my m4 rocks.

The variable Leupolds have shown to be repeatable and solid. You can get a 3.5-10x illuminated through mil sales very reasonably.

I hear good things about the Nightforce, I wonder if the rheostat is durable on the illuminated.

Can't imagine having a fixed power any more, not with the dynamic nature of the job.

Looking to get a .338 Sako/Nightforce combo soon ;)

mac3982

2 August 2003, 16:12

nightforce is a great scope the only thing that deters me is the price!only got so much cash to play with!

Matchanu

2 August 2003, 16:27

I only heard that variables were bad, I happy to hear you say they are good to go.

The knobs on the NF scope are big and easy to use. The clicks are very easy to recognise.

Yes they are expensive but well worth it I think.

The hollow mil dots make milling SOOO much easier.

I'm no scope nerd, I've only really used the leupold and the NF. Maybe someone else who has used the NF can verify.

Matchanu

2 August 2003, 16:28

[

Looking to get a .338 Sako/Nightforce combo soon ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

What do you think about the AI?

J.Meoff

2 August 2003, 18:18

AI- The Brits here use them in 7.62. The Dutch here have some .338, Some guys I know have some in Winmag.

By all accounts it performs well, throwing bullets. However, I think it's clunky, not a fast action.

The Sako is less than 1/2 the cost and a smoother action. Reportedly it shoots as well. In my limited hands on experience I like the format and it fits me well. The muzzle device in .338 gets good reviews.

Now if I can only find a goodguy deal.

Tuukka

2 August 2003, 18:29

The Sako TRG models have apparently been somewhat of sleepers there in the U.S.

They are cheaper than the AI rifles but deliver the same results. Accuracy wise they are at the very top and the quality of construction is excellent.

One good addition that Sako came out is the Picatinny rail that i believe many foreign users have been wanting.

The muzzle brake was one of the parts modified when Sako updated the TRG 21 and 41 models to 22 and 42 models. The older one wasnt satisfactory with the .338LM recoil and the new one corrects this.

Matchanu

2 August 2003, 22:14

I'll have to check out the Sako.

I always liked the AI, used them in Brunei.

Has a really cool detachable magazine, and they make one that is suppressed.

AI also sells the stock set up that you can drop in a Rem 700 action.

Jumper

2 August 2003, 22:16

I'm looking for a reliable dealer to get a new reticle for my Leupold who won't screw one over or charge an arm and a leg. Preferably in the Northwest. Any and all ideas welcomed.

Stay Safe... :cool:

Olive Drab

2 August 2003, 22:23

Originally posted by Matchanu
I only heard that variables were bad, I happy to hear you say they are good to go.

The knobs on the NF scope are big and easy to use. The clicks are very easy to recognise.

Yes they are expensive but well worth it I think.

The hollow mil dots make milling SOOO much easier.

I'm no scope nerd, I've only really used the leupold and the NF. Maybe someone else who has used the NF can verify.
do they come with BDC caibrated knobs? if not is there an option to purchase them?

Matchanu

3 August 2003, 00:00

Originally posted by Hoplite11B
do they come with BDC caibrated knobs? if not is there an option to purchase them?

I don't mean to sound stupid but I'm not sure what BDC calibrated knobs are.

Olive Drab

3 August 2003, 00:05

Originally posted by Matchanu
I don't mean to sound stupid but I'm not sure what BDC calibrated knobs are. bullet drop knobs. For example you zero the rifle for 100m. You screw in the turrets and loosen the outer part so the dial rotates freely without clicking adjustments. then you match the line with 100m. you walk back to 600m and now all you have to do is move the knbos to 600m because the # of clicks was already figured out from ballistic data on the ammo/barrel twist you are using. a lot simpler than taking a bullet trajectory graph and figuring out the bullet drop and how many clicks it takes to correct it.

J.Meoff

3 August 2003, 04:26

Actually there are bullet drop compensating (BDC) cams, which can be switched out according to caliber and load. Such as on the Leupold m3 series. 7.62, 300 WinMag, etc. Check the premeir reticles website. I believe they still make custom cams beyond what's factory offered.

Gooch

3 August 2003, 08:42

Originally posted by Jumper
I'm looking for a reliable dealer to get a new reticle for my Leupold who won't screw one over or charge an arm and a leg. Preferably in the Northwest. Any and all ideas welcomed.

Stay Safe... :cool:

Jumper,

I only know of one place to get a reticle transplant for a Leupold and that is Premier Reticle in Winchester, VA. They usually have a quick turn around time especially if you happen to be LE.

http://www.premierreticles.com/

They are the best folks to have this operation done by the way. They are experts in the field and Leupold wont void your warranty if you have them work on your scope.

Gooch out

SATCOM

3 August 2003, 09:05

Premier has been good to me, great selection, quick service with a slight discount for those holding on AK wielding movers.

Jumper

3 August 2003, 16:54

Gooch,

Thanks a bunch.... Order will be sent out this week.

Stay Safe.... :cool:

Matchanu

3 August 2003, 22:52

Originally posted by Hoplite11B
bullet drop knobs. For example you zero the rifle for 100m. You screw in the turrets and loosen the outer part so the dial rotates freely without clicking adjustments. then you match the line with 100m. you walk back to 600m and now all you have to do is move the knbos to 600m because the # of clicks was already figured out from ballistic data on the ammo/barrel twist you are using. a lot simpler than taking a bullet trajectory graph and figuring out the bullet drop and how many clicks it takes to correct it.

Different kind of scope.
All calibrations must be manually adjusted.
Adjustments are in 1/4 moa.

mac3982

4 August 2003, 11:17

good luck with the scope!

J.Meoff

4 August 2003, 15:34

Hoplite-

Now I've been trained to compensate for:

-bullet velocity, weight, and ballstic coefficient(across the board with decreasing velocities)
-the effect of wind
-altitude
-humidity
-temp
-target size and relative movement, platforms etc.
-the deceiving effect of ambient light
-even the ever so slight "spin drift" at distance

What does the barrel twist have to do with fuck all? 1/10 vs 1/10.5 vs 1/11 vs 1/11.5 assuming 7.62 of course.

It may appear I'm digging at an easy target, but the devil is in the details, as all snipers know. A light may be shined.

Gooch

4 August 2003, 18:08

"BDC" turrets work good for the military because most of them use a system which gets all of the elevation within 1 turn of the elevation turret which keeps us knuckle draggers from getting assed up on the elevation turret and being 1 revolution turn out of whack.

However they are not as precise which is why most competitive shooters will stick to 1/4 moa target turrets.

Even the most carefully calculated "cam" (Not really a cam at all rater just a turret with distances etched onto them) wont be 100 percent spot on all of the time due to variables such as temp/barometric pressure etc. The USMC Unertl which is a true cam has it right with the ablilty to dial on a distance but fine tune up or down for said environmental variables. The M3LR cams are good also since they have the GT distance on the turret as well as MOA from zero...

Now if someone could come up with the Unertl type deal with full moa turret with a 1/4 moa fine tune capability they would make a mint!!!!

Out