View Full Version : need some help with SOTG qualification Course
arnslamer
13 June 2003, 20:35
hi, i am a new guy guy so go easy on me.
you guys sure do have a lot of forums so i hope i am posting this in the right place. first of all let me say i am a civilian and i am posting because i plan to take a shooting course at a range localy and it is being billed as a SOTG CQB course that involves rifle and pistol. the instructor is Ex USMC special forces. i was able to look up some basic info on the net and it looks like this will be Marine MEU(SOC) type training. that is why i am posting my question here. can you guy's tell me what type of things he is likely to teach in this type of class. i know it will be CQB and team tactics. i am prety good with basic CQB, transitions and stuff. but what kind of stuff specificaly will i learn about. what kind of language do you use? i hate to walk into the class without a clue.
thanks from a FNG
an
Originally posted by arnslamer
....the instructor is Ex USMC special forces....i am prety good with basic CQB, transitions and stuff....
Must........resist.......the............urge...... .......
OK, look, I'll leave it to the other guys for the fun stuff.
No such thing as USMC special forces. OK? Flag should be way up on your BS flagpole. You don't say who he is, but I'll throw out that most guys i know, would not use that terminology.
And besides......., you seem like you already know what you need to know to figure out the rest. Me? I like to do the basics a lot. Basically.
arnslamer
13 June 2003, 21:11
um, that's my fault, i guess i used the wrong terminology.
force recon.
Bravo_One_Three
13 June 2003, 21:39
Originally posted by Southoftheborder
Must........resist.......the............urge...... .......
Think about your happy place man, breath in through the nose, out through the mouth, and just think about your happy place!
Look arnslamer, the class you described is pretty vague. Not that anyone is going to get very specific with you anyhow about what the training consists of. My suggestion is that you just take the course and enjoy it.
As far as the part about walking into the class unprepared... the idea of taking a class is to learn something that you didn't know. Go, take notes, ask questions and ask again untill you understand the answers; you are paying for the class after all.
Slick0311
13 June 2003, 21:50
Getting tired of sounding like a Bingo number?:D
OK, it's not 13, it's 1/3 or One Three... 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines. If you're gonna reply, it's "B 1/3".
arnslamer,
If you would kindly post the name of the instructor and the area this is being offered? There is a strong possibility this is just a former Marine looking to turn a dollar, but if it is something else then we would like to know.
Hey arnslamer.......
I'm just kidding with you. Seriously though, I do have some curiosity about your questions before I would want to answer them (taking into consideration that whatever answer I could give MIGHT be useless).
You are taking a course without knowing much about it? Are you really loaded with money or just like shooting a lot? You don't know ANYTHING about either the course of instruction, the quality of the instruction/instructor, and even less -- the safety of the students (read YOU).
You are going to go into a firearms course with those issues unresolved?
Don't get me wrong, I realize you came here for questions, but please humor me and answer mine first.
If.....I....had......a......dollar....for ......every......fricken.....former.....FOrce Recon
Name
Location
Website?????
arnslamer
13 June 2003, 22:57
i know this is going to sound really sad to you High Speed guys but this is a class at Gunsite. the name of the class is ACTP
i have credentials from Thunder Ranch that will allow me to take the class but having no experience at Gunsite i not sure of the format the lady i spoke to at Gunsite was a little vague and the web site is not very clear. here is a link to the page
http://www.Gunsite.com/T_DSCRP/TD_CTP/td_ctp.html
it looks like a very good class, Gunsite has a great reputation so i know i will be safe.
i got an outline of the class in the mail and it mentions something called "SOTG qual course, carbine / pistol". i don't know what that is and i don't want to walk in blind. from my training at thunder ranch i know there may be real operators in the class. we had DOE and SWAT. i don't want to slow them down by doing something stupid or asking several dumb questions.
i think the name of the instructor is Pat Rogers. i am not sure of his credentials. i think he was a Marine. but Gunsite is a good school right? so he must be good.
i am far from loaded with money. i have been saving for two years to be able to afford to take this class and i want to get the most out of it i can. it's really a once in a life time dream vacation for me to get do something a little like what you guys must do every day! i am trying to shoot as much as i can at the local range but i can't practice moving fire, i am buying ammo at gun shows to save money, lots of dry firing, mag changes, etc.
i understand the nature of my questions can pose a danger to US Service men but at the same time i don't want any "fast movers" in the class having to wait on my sorry ass.
i hope i answered your questions.
thanks,
Gunsite is good to go.
ANyone working there is going to be good to go.
Invisible J
13 June 2003, 23:10
arnslamer, if the course you're about to take is anything like the SOTG shooting package most of us did for MEU(SOC) qualification, there's not much we can tell you that's going to help you out. It's not necessarily that the info is all "hush-hush", but it's just one of those things you just have to go and do yourself. On top of that, the info you've passed on to us is really just too vague for us to give any educated answers.
My advice? Just show up with an open mind, a bit of humility and a willingness to learn, and you should have a pretty good time - hell, as far as I'm concerned, anytime I get to put rounds down range is a good time.
Originally posted by arnslamer
i know this is going to sound really sad to you High Speed guys but this is a class at Gunsite. the name of the class is ACTP....
....i have credentials from Thunder Ranch that will allow me to take the class but having no experience at Gunsite i not sure of the format....
....it looks like a very good class, Gunsite has a great reputation so i know i will be safe....
....i got an outline of the class in the mail and it mentions something called "SOTG qual course, carbine / pistol". i don't know what that is....
Ok, NOW you've given some info.
*Gunsite was one of the first "civilian" specialty firearms schools I had the opportunity to train at. Since then, I have been back on several occasions (before and after the change of mgt). As was said earlier, and as you yourself stated, Gunsite is a reputable school, with sound instructors, and a general "all-around" fun place to play.
*I've also had the opportunity to play a bit at TR with Clint and his people. I believe that you will be fine going to the course. Your safety skills/knowledge should be just fine. Don't worry about trying to keep up with the "high-speed" guys. Do YOUR thing and have a blast. You may even surprise yourself and do alright when compared to the "cool" guys. I've seen it more than once.
*Safety will be the last thing you will need to worry about. You would probably die of heat stroke out there before you got shot (unless you shot yourself or someone else and then he/they returned fire). On a serious note, don't be too proud to drink a lot of water. Altitude and sun play differently on people.
*I'm guessing and thinking this will be something like a TR TAC course, simple CQB, probably not as much house stuff as you are thinking.
You'll want a good rifle and pistol, but I think you already know that. Don't forget your knee and elbow pads as the ground up there can be hard.
arnslamer, I sincerely hope you have a good time. While I do not know Pat Rogers, I agree with Gooch that any instructor at Gunsite should be squared away. I have not been up that way in a long time (since 97-98), but I do not believe that the school has dropped its standards or all holy hell would be spoken on many boards, including this one.
Have a good time and when you finish, give us a yell and tell us a war story.
Andy
Ok now things are a bit clearer, or are they? You first say your taking a course from a "local range" billed as
SOTG CQB course
being given by
the instructor is Ex USMC special forces.
um, that's my fault, i guess i used the wrong terminology.
force recon.
Now it appears to be a Gunsite course given by
i think the name of the instructor is Pat Rogers. i am not sure of his credentials. i think he was a Marine.
and that literature was sent to you that read
it mentions something called "SOTG qual course, carbine / pistol"
For whatever reason I'm sensing a disconnect in your story, I don't really care why. Have fun at the course, don't worry about asking stupid questions or slowing anyone down, the course is designed to teach you what you need to know.
NOT what we know.
Originally posted by Xdeth
Ok now things are a bit clearer, or are they?....For whatever reason I'm sensing a disconnect in your story....
WTF?! Damn! I hate it when that happens.......... Now I'll actually have to start paying attention to what I read instead of just "cliff noting" them.
Thanks Xdeth, you just reminded me of how stupid I am.
arnslamer, if you are telling the truth, have a good time. If you are pulling our chain, I hope your rear sight falls off your pistol during a night shoot.
arnslamer
14 June 2003, 00:52
oh man, cut me some slack. i didn't mean any disrespect. i gave you some basic general info. because i didn't want to waste a lot of your time with a bunch of details you may not have needed to know (or wanted to hear) from some punk civilian.
i honistly thought if i had said something like "He guys, i am taking a ATCP class at Gunsite and i think my instructor is named Pat Rogers, can you give me some advice. i would have come off as a yuppy asshole who likes throwing names around.
a while back i did a search on Pat Rogers and came up with this guy. http://www.forcerecon.org/ForceHistoryInfo.htm
i sent him an e-mail. he said he was the same guy and sounded legit. this Pat Rogers is force recon (or so he says). i don't know for sure but he has some cool pics. the only thing i did know for sure was a guy named Pat Rogers was teaching the class, he was a marine and the outline on the class said SOTG.
i don't even know what SOTG stands for. can one of you please tell me?
Southoftheborder, and all. -- thanks for the info
respectfully,
ar
Slick0311
14 June 2003, 00:54
I hope your rear sight falls off your pistol during a night shoot :D
Classic
Sean0352
14 June 2003, 01:26
I heard of Pat Rogers. I may be wrong too but I heard he was CWO EOD type dude.
Sean
arnslamer
14 June 2003, 01:28
Originally posted by Slick0311
:D
I hope your rear sight falls off your pistol during a night shoot
Classic
i don't get it? i am not trying to be a smart ass but i guess i don't understand this post. i thought the rear sight was the less important of the two. especialy at night with a tac light. can't you put your front sight on the target and use the back of the slide as a reference kind of like a shotgun bead?
is this some kind of test you guys are giving me to see if i took an advanced Thunder Ranch class?
or are you just funning me again Southoftheborder?
i can't tell with out a ;)
sta marine
14 June 2003, 01:34
arnslamer
LOL, Hes just joking man.. Now trust me and edit that before anyone else sees it!!!
Slick0311
14 June 2003, 01:37
arnslamer,
Your killing me here.
Bravo_One_Three
14 June 2003, 03:02
I have to tell you guys, between the Rangers doing a frontal assault on that guy off site and this thread... it has been a great night tonight on SOCNET.
Slick0311
14 June 2003, 03:06
Your new Delta Ki Ninja name is: Bingo
B13...b13....:D
I used to frequent a board that he either moderated or was a senior member. I am quite certain that he also regularly writes for one/some of the many gun rags. He is supposedly VERY WELL respected in the community. Everything I've ever read about or from him leads me to believe that he is exactly what he says he is. If memory serves correct....
psenior
14 June 2003, 11:17
OK, I am not a Marine, but here's my 2 cents. Pat Rogers is legit. He does train Force Recon. I think there is a Marine who posts here occasionally, Pinco or Vinnie, who can vouch for him.
Pat is a moderator at tacticalforums.com and lightfighter.com. He writes articles for SWAT magazine. If you do a search on his name at the old thefiringline.com forum, you will find some good posts from him on what you need to prepare for his carbine class.
In fact, I went & did the search for you. Here are some links:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=144067
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=143059
I have heard it is a good class so you will probably learn a lot. He gave a class earlier this year in Lakeland, FL. I was unable to go because it immediately sold out.
You mentioned his Force Recon website, which has a lot of good info and you already communicated with him via email. Don't know what other info I can give you to help any. Go take the class and let us all know how it was.
Originally posted by psenior
OK, I am not a Marine, but here's my 2 cents. Pat Rogers is legit. He does train Force Recon. I think there is a Marine who posts here occasionally, Pinco or Vinnie, who can vouch for him.
Pat is a moderator at tacticalforums.com and lightfighter.com. He writes articles for SWAT magazine. If you do a search on his name at the old thefiringline.com forum, you will find some good posts from him on what you need to prepare for his carbine class.
In fact, I went & did the search for you. Here are some links:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=144067
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=143059
I have heard it is a good class so you will probably learn a lot. He gave a class earlier this year in Lakeland, FL. I was unable to go because it immediately sold out.
You mentioned his Force Recon website, which has a lot of good info and you already communicated with him via email. Don't know what other info I can give you to help any. Go take the class and let us all know how it was.
I lost all my links when I rebuilt my PCs so I could not remember the exact forums. Good post.
Originally posted by Gooch
If.....I....had......a......dollar....for ......every......fricken.....former.....FOrce Recon
Gooch,
But you have to admit that they are neither the first ones, nor the most vocal and certainly not the most frequent you find hawking their wares. Whole bunch of "I've been through a pistolero or rapid-rifleman course and can show you how to kill at 3 yards" guys out there.
Besides, if it gets them some dinero, cool! I'm where I'm at today almost entirely because some numbnuts wasn't smart enough to go forth and spread the word about how "dudely" he was before I did.
SOB,
I wasnt talking about LEGIT Force Racoon guys.. I was talking about the posers who seem to always claim Force Recon to enhance thier weak ass resume.
I have no problem with real BTDT dudes making a dollar as long as they give credit where credit is due.
Out hyar!!
Originally posted by Gooch
SOB,
I wasnt talking about LEGIT Force Racoon guys.. I was talking about the posers who seem to always claim Force Recon to enhance thier weak ass resume.
I have no problem with real BTDT dudes making a dollar as long as they give credit where credit is due.
Out hyar!!
Cool. Have fun on your trip!
Andy
arnslamer
16 June 2003, 12:16
Edited by Sharky
Sneaky SF Dude
16 June 2003, 13:13
Looks like it's time for a
Sneaky SF Dude
16 June 2003, 13:17
Hijack!
http://www.nataliaparis.com.co/images/uno/07.jpg
Juan Valdez' daughter
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 13:25
Kinda got the jist of the Qual course info seems very basic to me from what I can tell from the way you wrote it.I think you need to re-read it and then post it exactly as it says in the brochure but again standard first day qualification stuff.And what the hell is west side Force,a new rap band that we dont need!!No really please explain west side Force to me.Thanks
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 13:31
Nice ASS!!!But who's the chick on the right!!:D
arnslamer
16 June 2003, 13:36
this info came from someone who contacted me thru my e-mail.
i didn't understand that part either.
"Here is a short part of the Marine
pistol qual course (west side Force)."
that is exactly how it was typed in the e-mail to me.
from talking to the folks at Gunsite the carbine qualification is almost the same but the distances are doubled.
sounds like i need to buy a shot timer.
my local range is going to love me if i try to practice speed shooting or double taps.
Bravo_One_Three
16 June 2003, 13:50
SOCNET Admins take direct action to retake a hijacked thread:
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 13:50
just practice the draw at home,do the same thing the same way until your comfortable with stance,grip etc..and remember front sight post,front sight post,front sight post!!!Also remember smooth is fast.Still would like to know what west side Force is.
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 14:05
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
[B]That, my good man, is Natalia Paris. She's as famous here as So-Fee-Ah (as my good friend R375 calls her.)
Heck and I thought it was just a random picture.Nice to have a name to go with that rockin body,now I can look her up to see if she has a face to go with that body(like it really matters).Thanks
Sneaky SF Dude
16 June 2003, 14:18
Here ya' go Bro'
http://www.nataliaparis.com.co/images/dos/09.jpg
Sneaky SF Dude
16 June 2003, 14:19
"She walks like an angel, talks like an angel, but she's the devil in disguise..."
http://www.nataliaparis.com.co/images/tres/14.jpg
arnslamer
16 June 2003, 15:03
i tell you what,
you guys know how to hijack a thread.
not only did i not mind but Natalia Paris makes me forget what i was talking about.
sta marine
16 June 2003, 15:45
Doing a google on her now. She's HOT!!!!!
sta marine
16 June 2003, 15:51
Im back....
Thong...tha tha tha thong.
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 16:03
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
"She walks like an angel, talks like an angel, but she's the devil in disguise..."
http://www.nataliaparis.com.co/images/tres/14.jpg [/QUOTE After looking at her,I can only imagine.I think that Elvis song applies to everyone of them that I meet,including the Ex.Thanks again she's a hottie!!!!!
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 19:38
Originally posted by Xdeth
West side Force. Thats what I was thinking.LMFAO.Those boyz are a dime a dozen round here.Something tells me Gunsite wouldnt let these fellas on the premises!!
pistol qual course (west side Force).
25 yd bustin a cap with your 9 while standing ( from Fubu concealed holster ) 9 sec
15 yd 8 sec
10 yd AK->Tec-9 transition standing 6.5 sec
10-3 yd " 6.5 sec
10-3 yd One handed Mac-10 full auto combat drill 4.5 sec
Sneaky SF Dude
16 June 2003, 19:53
An' don forget, youse GOTS to show 'em dat ice! Bling, bling.
Let's not forget Southern Force.
pistol qual course (Southern Force).
25 yd Using 8 inch barrel Model 29 S&W .44 Magnum ( from Cabelas safari-style holster ) 15 minutes
15 yd 10 minutes
10 yd Over and under->Bowie style throwing knife transition 6.5 sec
10-3 yd " 6.5 sec
10-3 yd One handed 454 Casull combat drill 60 seconds / without swallowing chaw
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 21:44
Originally posted by Xdeth
pistol qual course (west side Force).
25 yd bustin a cap with your 9 while standing ( from Fubu concealed holster ) 9 sec
15 yd 8 sec
10 yd AK->Tec-9 transition standing 6.5 sec
10-3 yd " 6.5 sec
10-3 yd One handed Mac-10 full auto combat drill 4.5 sec OMG thats some funny shit!!!Im supposed to be teaching a firearms course right now and the students are looking at me like WTF is wrong with him,are we sure we want HIM to teach us how to shoot!!!:D That smiley needs da bling bling gold capped teeth.LOL
SGTROCK
16 June 2003, 21:49
Xdeth,your killin me man!!!NO sooner do I post after I see the west side Force and theres the South side Force picture.That is beautiful gotta go before I lose some money.Good stuff Bro very funny!!!!
Huey One Four
17 June 2003, 14:45
Kiwi Force
No Guns.
Instant Pass.
SGTROCK
18 June 2003, 15:32
FYI,one of the members here posted a link to www.tacticalforums.com and one of the forums is a Force Reconaissance forum hosted and moderated by Pat Rogers.So if anybody wants to ask hims a question about west side Force or if he was in Force Recon can do so over there.There is also a Navy SEAL forum & Army & Airforce too.Have a nice day,cause Im not!!
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