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View Full Version : Damn! My Ankle!!! 20 questions...


ussfpa
1 July 2003, 18:31
Below is an exerpt from an article I wrote on "Sprains", Primarily ANKLE Sprains. Since just reading clinical excerpts can be rather boring and people don't seem to learn as much. I have decided to place blanks for some of the information and let the medics fill the blanks in :D
Please read the article, and in your responses, begin with the information from the blanks, followed with any questions.
NON medics, please ask away.

"Immediately after any sprain type injury, a rapid self-assessment should be accomplished. Ask yourself the following questions; “Does my ankle / wrist / elbow look like my other one? Is it immediately swollen? Are there crunching noises or a grating feeling if I try and move it? Can I still feel my fingers / toes past the injury?” Observations such as obvious deformity, immediate swelling and loss of visual bony landmarks, hearing or feeling crunching and loss of feeling are all signs that a hospital visit should be accomplished. The ability to bear weight should not be the deciding factor for or against a trip to the emergency department or clinic.

Ankle injuries comprise 75% of all sprains. Within that 75%, almost all (90%) involve specifically the 1)______ ankle. The MAJOR stabilizing ligamnets in the ankle are: the 2)__________, the 3)__________ and the 4)____________. Generally, ankle sprains are categorized into three major grades or classes. Class I is a minor, 5)________ ____ of the stabilizing 6)_________ in the ankle. There is minimal swelling, visual landmarks are not lost, some pain experienced, and the ability to bear weight is present. Patients commonly want to “walk it off”. This is considered a 7)stable / unstable (choose) injury and should heal in a couple of weeks.
A class II injury involves more extensive damage to the ligamentous structures. Partial or complete tearing has occurred and immediate swelling will be evident, due to 8)______ entering the space surrounding the joint. Clinical guidelines indicate that 9)_____ should be taken (if available) to confirm 10)_______ of the joint. There is considerable pain associated with this injury and the patient may or may not be able to bear weight. Crunching and grating 11)is / is not (choose) not ordinarily heard or felt on the exam, but it is considerably uncomfortable to have the exam performed. Healing time is significantly longer (12)_____weeks), but the prognosis is good for a complete recovery.
The last, and most serious, ankle sprain is the class III sprain. This injury 13) completely / partially (choose) disrupts multiple sets of 14) tendons / ligaments (choose) and results in 15)________ of the ankle. On x-ray examination, joint spaces are erratic and uneven with associated fractures are commonly seen. The 16)________ will be disrupted. Loss of external visual landmarks, crunching or grating, and significant pain are all to be expected. This sprain is treated like a 17)________ and can often requires 18)________, casting, or a combination of both. Expect a healing time of 4-6 months and significant physical therapy for recovery.

Once recognized, treatment for the various injuries is strikingly similar. Initial immobilization of the injured joint and rapid application of ice to the area is important. Ice in the first 24 hours significantly reduces pain and swelling. After the first day, moist heat is used to promote circulation and resorption of body fluids. Another effective tool is physical therapy and early 19)_____ __ ______ excercises. With a class I or II sprain, providers will often have patients “drawing the alphabet” with their toes. This assists in regaining range of motion and prevents stiffness and stricture during the healing process. Gradually, weight bearing and levels of activity are increased with the assistance of physical therapy and, often, anti-inflammatory medications like 20)_____________"

BONUS!
Describe the attached X-ray


Primum non Nocere

Bravo_One_Three
1 July 2003, 19:34
Motrin, NEEEEXXXXT!

Frog
1 July 2003, 19:40
Cold salt water body soak and run it out, tadpole.

Sneaky SF Dude
1 July 2003, 19:46
Its been a while but...

1) lateral
2)Anterior TaloFibular
3) Posterior Talofibular
4)Calcaneofibular
5) slight tearing
6)Ligaments
7)stable
8) fluid
9) pics
10) Integrity
11) Is
12) 12
13) Completely
14) Ligaments
15) laxity
16) function
17) fracture
18) surgery
19) range of motion
20) ibuprofen

Fractured fibula

Sneaky SF Dude
1 July 2003, 19:47
Originally posted by Frog
Cold salt water body soak and run it out, tadpole.

LOL. I bet that's a standard SEAL Team TX.

RsovRanger
1 July 2003, 19:56
dislocated ankle with accompanying fibula fracture?

ussfpa
1 July 2003, 19:57
Frog has the operational answer :D

Well done Sneaky...a little more on the x-ray if you are able...

Primum non Nocere

Sneaky SF Dude
1 July 2003, 20:04
Looks like the tibia is displaced. Grade III tear of the ATFL?

Or a spider humping a dragon over a cloud. i never was good at picture tests.

ussfpa
1 July 2003, 20:13
This is a grade 3 sprain with associated fracture.

Remember that a grade 3 sprain includes the disruption of multiple sets of ligamentous structures. The Anterior Talofibular Ligament, the calcaneofibular ligament, and the deltoid ligament can all tear thus disrupting the MORTISE.
Uneven spacing in the mortise view of the x-ray indicates an UNSTABLE joint. This rather gross representation of an irregular mortise demonstrates an associated fracture of the fibula.
The fracture (from this single view) can be described as closed, transverse, non-displaced, non fragmented, and non-angulated.
Remember also that fractures should be seen in a minimum of 2 view for accurate evaluation.:cool:
Though this LOOKS to be simple and transverse from this view, a lateral may demonstrate a spiral fracture or condsiderable anterior / posterior displacement.
Well done the Sneaky...any takers on probable course of treatment???

Primum non Nocere

Frog
1 July 2003, 20:39
Originally posted by ussfpa
This is a grade 3 sprain with associated fracture.

any takers on probable course of treatment???



20 years ago:
Cold salt water body soak and run it out, tadpole.
--------------------------------------
Today:
Lear jet to a Colorado Springs hot spa, followed by 6 months convalescent leave, plane ticket to Bangkok, 3 hot DoD contract nursing students from Pacific Beach, and a rehab team composed of an Orthopedic surgeon, Personal trainer, and social secretary, all on full Per Diem. Then get out on disability and become a DoD contractor.

Sneaky SF Dude
1 July 2003, 20:42
What are you trying to say sir?

ussfpa
1 July 2003, 21:03
Originally posted by Frog
20 years ago:
Cold salt water body soak and run it out, tadpole.
--------------------------------------
Today:
Lear jet to a Colorado Springs hot spa, followed by 6 months convalescent leave, plane ticket to Bangkok, 3 hot DoD contract nursing students from Pacific Beach, and a rehab team composed of an Orthopedic surgeon, Personal trainer, and social secretary, all on full Per Diem. Then get out on disability and become a DoD contractor.
I think he means: 20 yrs ago... back when it was hard, :D LOL
But he is no kidding balls on with the "today" answer :p

Primum non Nocere

Frog
1 July 2003, 21:24
Hey, I'm not a doctor, but I did stay in Bangkok for a week one night. It cured me!
---------------------------------------------
Sorry, I'll let you Doc's do your thing - I'm just being a pain in the ass tonight - been going to the friggin hospital 2 times a day for my 83 year old mom - just had her second stroke. Just being ornery - you 18D guys are the best thing since peanut butter. No shit. Drive on!

ussfpa
1 July 2003, 21:29
Originally posted by Frog
Hey, I'm not a doctor, but I did stay in Bangkok for a week one night. It cured me!
No wonder we can't get GreenHat to leave. His personal "Fountain of youth"

Primum non Nocere

themadmedic
1 July 2003, 22:14
:cool: :D

Sneaky SF Dude
1 July 2003, 22:54
Originally posted by Frog
Hey, I'm not a doctor, but I did stay in Bangkok for a week one night. It cured me!
---------------------------------------------
Sorry, I'll let you Doc's do your thing - I'm just being a pain in the ass tonight - been going to the friggin hospital 2 times a day for my 83 year old mom - just had her second stroke. Just being ornery - you 18D guys are the best thing since peanut butter. No shit. Drive on!

No problem sir. Hope your Mom gets better.

Come on guys. The TX is easy.

Doc T
1 July 2003, 22:57
late day at work... will fill in my two cents prior to reading too much.... remember i am a trauma surgeon not an orthopedic...

1. lateral
2, 3, 4. anterior and posterior talo-fibular, middle calcaneo-fibular
5. nontearing stretch?
6.ligaments
7.stable
8. blood
9.Xrays
10.regularity
11. is (you already have the word not....)
12. 6-12 weeks
13.completely
14.ligaments
15.dislocation
17. fracture
18.surgery
19.range of motion
20.ibuprofen

xray... fracture of the fibula and grade 3 sprain (dislocation)

Doc T
1 July 2003, 23:02
Originally posted by ussfpa
This is a grade 3 sprain with associated fracture.

Remember that a grade 3 sprain includes the disruption of multiple sets of ligamentous structures. The Anterior Talofibular Ligament, the calcaneofibular ligament, and the deltoid ligament can all tear thus disrupting the MORTISE.
Uneven spacing in the mortise view of the x-ray indicates an UNSTABLE joint. This rather gross representation of an irregular mortise demonstrates an associated fracture of the fibula.
The fracture (from this single view) can be described as closed, transverse, non-displaced, non fragmented, and non-angulated.
Remember also that fractures should be seen in a minimum of 2 view for accurate evaluation.:cool:
Though this LOOKS to be simple and transverse from this view, a lateral may demonstrate a spiral fracture or condsiderable anterior / posterior displacement.
Well done the Sneaky...any takers on probable course of treatment???

Primum non Nocere

would obtain an ortho consult....but my guess....

start conservative... ice, elevation, immobilization, meds like ibuprofen, eventual PT.... not a both bone fracture, not sure the ortho guys would operate from the start...

if continues to be unstable after time passes, then surgery.

TigerHooter
1 July 2003, 23:07
Seriously though, have any of you guys ever tried to x-ray a guy's ancle with an EOD x-ray camera? Had it used on me during a 'real world' op after screwing my ancle up. All the pix looked like a picture of a foot submerged in gray jello.

Good news, no bomb!!

themadmedic
1 July 2003, 23:20
Originally posted by Doc T
would obtain an ortho consult....but my guess....

start conservative... ice, elevation, immobilization, meds like ibuprofen, eventual PT.... not a both bone fracture, not sure the ortho guys would operate from the start...

if continues to be unstable after time passes, then surgery.

Hence the grin upon posting--just wanted an excuse to scan in a film---this one actually was from a nonunion that was conservatively managed for some time before taking to the OR...and was obviously a different injury (the one I posted was s/p MVA):cool:

airbornelawyer
1 July 2003, 23:56
This was approximately 48 hours after the initial injury. I fell down a mountain in Austria. Not the worst ankle injury I've had, but the only one with a picture.

Sneaky SF Dude
2 July 2003, 00:32
Nice pic.

My TX. Immobilization with FE splint and indig assisting with traction X 4-6 weeks, rest, elevation in the base camp. Ibuprofen.
Progressive weight bearing, then ROM exercises. A-gunner on the 60 until RTD.

On the X ray.

For ABNLawyer ESQ. Rest, ice, compression, elevation. Ibuprofen. ROM exercises.

TigerHooter
2 July 2003, 15:26
That works well if you can get your wife/girlfriend to take part in the TX.

airbornelawyer
2 July 2003, 21:43
Damn! Just GI M&Ms? No good drugs?

The crawl the rest of the way down the mountain sucked. I had to drive back to Germany to get to the Army hospital in Heidelberg. I guess I'm lucky I can't drive a stick; if I'd had to work a clutch, it would have been a bitch to get back. It seems to have heeled fine though.

Now the other ankle... that one has three pins in it now.

Axe
5 July 2003, 00:18
Talking about bum ankles and legs makes me think about the old joke about the farmer and his horse who were involved in the car accident. You know, the one where the cop shoots the horse because of the leg fx and the farmer starts screaming that he is fine?