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SHYTE
8 July 2003, 01:10
Thought this was interesting,

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2116/bdufixes.htm


The current Battle Dress Uniform (BDU) has too much material making it hot and a source of Soldier heat injuries. It also absorbs moisture and sweat making it work against the extended cold weather clothing system (ECWCS) that seeks to keep the Soldier dry at all times. This is a source of Soldier frostbite/cold weather injuries. About the only thing the BDU does is provide covering for the Soldier in camouflage and abrasion resistance from vegetation. Realizing this, the best that we can do is minimize the heat and cold weather flaws it has.

1. Never starch your BDUs--once starched the starch never leaves, creating a uniform that breaths even less, holding heat in and odors. Starching weakens the fabric and ruins the infrared protective coating...unless you a marine with a death wish or working for the enemy, only clean and press the BDU.

2. Code letter the top and bottoms of BDUs so they fade together--with a permanent black marker, make a letter A, B, C, D etc on the inside bottom of the BDU top and the rear pocket of its matching bottom. This way you will keep them together during wash and wear them at the same time to insure they fade/wear evenly. The coding will also tell you how many BDUs set you have.

3. Remove excess material from your BDUs--remove all laundry tags and size labels. These serve no purpose since you know only to machine wash and dry your BDUs. The laundry tag under the collar is irritating to the neck. If you have different sizes, use the permanent marker to mark the size on the lower right hand corner where you marked the code letter. "SR"=small regular, "MR"=medium regular......etc. On the BDU top, replace all pocket buttons with Velcro, this will improve your low-crawling and when the uniform is pressed eliminate the button bulge from showing (optional).

Remove the buttons that close the BDU top and the extra flap of material that holds the button hole and sew the top together so it is a pullover. This dramatically eliminates the amount of material at the torso that can trap heat and moisture. It also makes the BDU top stronger. Cut under the armpits two ventilation slits to help let heat escape from under the armpits. The IDF uniforms have this feature. On the BDU bottom, remove the front bug flap from your fly. Cut off the side tightening tabs at your waist, that's why you have belt loops to wear your rigger's belt. These straps don't work and are extra weight. The bottom of the trousers have leg ties, since you tuck your cuffs into your boots, pull on these cords and cut off as much as you can.

4. Sew a small piece of black elastic to form a foot stirrup on the bottom of your trouser cuffs--this will allow you to put your pants on quickly and place your foot into your speed-laced boots with your trouser legs ready to be wrapped by your boots. A small piece of elastic has been proven to be unnoticeable by your sock covered foot. This feature unlike blousing bands and straps does not restrict circulation.

5. Sew a last name tape above the right rear pocket of your BDU trousers to prevent theft.--Your name tape on your trousers also speeds recovery of your uniforms in a group laundry situation.

6. Do not wear underwear when wearing BDU trousers--wearing underwear or even biker shorts traps heat and moisture at the waist and groin area, creating conditions for fungal growth unless you are the designated unit far side river bank swimmer, you need not to wear swimtrunks under your BDUs, in fact you could strip to just BDU trousers and swim across to reduce the amount of your uniform that gets wet. Your legs seeing as they are constantly moving in the infantry (HA! HA!) they will quickly dry out from muscular heat. It is lower circulation areas (feet, hands, chest) that need to stay warm.

7.Remove the pocket holder piece of material in the top pocket of the BDU top since its not needed and extra material.

8. Wear summer weight BDUs all the time--the only time you should where the winter weight BDUs is when it is really cold. Since the insulating layers and jackets that you wear that keeps you warm in cold weather, there is no reason why the U.S. Army couldn't standardized on just one type of BDU that is light as possible.

9. Obtain a set of Nomex, fire resistant BDUs for combat and Airborne/vehicle operations use.--some of the 23 paratroopers that died at the 1993 Pope AFB crash would have lived had they been wearing Nomex� Aircrew BDUs. These uniforms have national stock numbers (NSN) and can be ordered through the supply system. NSNs are: 8415-01-328-8253 for the jacket, 8415-01-328-8269 for the trousers. There is no reason why Nomex� BDUs couldn't be put on sale at the Army Air Force Exchange System (AAFES) clothing sales stores. So the individual Soldier could buy his own set.

For fire protection, Nomex� BDUs need to be issued to all Soldiers to counter the fire risk from wearing synthetic insulating materials like Gore-tex� and polypropylene, especially those parachuting from aircraft, clearing mines, standing upright from AFV hatches and those on dismounted patrols near urban areas. Their NSNs are: 8415-01-328-8253 for the jacket, 8415-01-328-8269 for the trousers. For jump padding, cut an unused piece of the issue sleeping mat, and slip into the backside of your Nomex� BDUs knees and elbows.

Found this on a website. For the fiscally challenged or anyone who can't convince the boss that fire is bad. Certainly cheaper than Nomex....

Make clothing flame retardant.

Mix together nine ounces 20 Mule Team Borax and four ounces boric acid in one gallon water. If the article is washable, soak in the solution after final rinsing, then dry. If the garment is not washable, spray with the solution. This solution, recommended by fire departments, may wash out of clothing and should be used after each washing or dry cleaning.

These steps if taken above can remove about a pound of weight from your BDUs and minimize the negative aspects they have. The new nylon-cotton hot weather BDU, while more durable is not as cool as the 100% cotton rip-stop BDU. Obtain as many sets of the 100% cotton BDUs while you can. I'd like to say remove the two lower top pockets which are usually covered by LBE/TLBV to enable a tuck-in wear feature for rappelling/parachuting, but we have to look like everyone else. It is my hope that some day a simplified BDU without all these extra materials be issued to Soldiers and without the two lower jacket pockets. There is work underway to create reversible camouflage BDU with day desert on one side and woodland camouflage on the other for rapid-response to world crisises without having to spend precious time issuing different color uniforms. Such chameleonic capability would also help troops as they maneuver across the battlefield and enounter different colors so as to better remain undetected by the enemy.

The U.S. Army has the best way to wear the BDUs. Rolling the sleeves up into a quick-release cuff is tedious, but worth it when you need to go sleeves down compared to the marine bone-head roll-up which you have to fight to undo. Blousing the boots with bands, springs is another jarhead ego trip which is not functional that is avoided. What matters in WAR is victory, not image or grabbing media camera attention. BDUs can be air-delivered along with all the fighting vehicles and equipment needed by Soldiers/Paratroopers--in their case without parachutes using freedrop techniques utilized during Operation Provide Promise, the food/clothing/medical supply missions that saved the Bosnian people from certain death until ground peacekeepers put an end to the killing.

sta marine
8 July 2003, 04:22
Originally posted by SHYTE

The U.S. Army has the best way to wear the BDUs. Rolling the sleeves up into a quick-release cuff is tedious, but worth it when you need to go sleeves down compared to the marine bone-head roll-up which you have to fight to undo. Blousing the boots with bands, springs is another jarhead ego trip which is not functional



Maybe its hard for a SOLDIER to roll those sleeves down....

Let me write a quick Marine to Army manual.

when your sleeves are rolled up the Marine way. and you want them down. cup the opposite hand into a c shape, grab the top of the roll and move from the top of the arm tword your hand in one smooth motion. the sleeve will as if by magic unroll itself and your ready.

Man and those boot bands, I can definatley see how that hurt me in combat......:rolleyes: so those jump boots in your dress uniforms, is that just in case you have to go into combat REAL fast??????

Come on, who wrote that some fucking supply Sgt. who had his 2 weeks of combat training and is now an expert...

k_miller
8 July 2003, 15:24
Off topic, but there were 24 soldier who died because of injuries from the 23 March 94 Pope AFB crash. 19 from our battalion (2-504th PIR) and 5 from 2-505th PIR. SPC Martin Lumbert died in January 1995 after living for 8 months with 80%+ of his body burnt. He is often left out of the number because he held on so long, but he was in my squad and I wanted him to be remembered.

Sorry that I hijacked this thread. Back to lurking.

Alex F
15 July 2003, 16:31
Originally posted by k_miller
Off topic, but there were 24 soldier who died because of injuries from the 23 March 94 Pope AFB crash. 19 from our battalion (2-504th PIR) and 5 from 2-505th PIR. SPC Martin Lumbert died in January 1995 after living for 8 months with 80%+ of his body burnt. He is often left out of the number because he held on so long, but he was in my squad and I wanted him to be remembered.

Sorry that I hijacked this thread. Back to lurking.

As long as you remember him he'll never truly be left out. I'm sorry for the loss of your buddies.

SHYTE
15 July 2003, 21:48
living for 8 months with 80%+ of his body burnt
That is remarkable. This is not the medical forum, so I won't get into how rare it is, but it is remarkable to hear of a person surviving that long with that severity of burns. He must have been a hell of a warrior to have fought that long.

Snake
15 July 2003, 21:50
Filter this through the Field Expedient Anti-Bullshit device. It's an article by Mike Sparks, Anti-USMC Mullah.


He washed out of Marine Infantry Officer Training(whateverr ya'll call it. ITB?), got offered a slot in Supply, refused it, and resigned with about 7 months of active duty. Has -loathed- the Marine Corps ever since. He was given a boot to the ass on the "OLD" SocNet, back around 1998.

He's an Officer in an Army Reserve rigger unit, nowadays. Publishes wild shit, like putting a Brigade of the 82nd on bicycles, etc. Always calls the M113 the "Gavin". He's the only one to do this, so you can recognize his works. Universally loathed. Even Hackworth said he's got a few rounds missing from his belt.

J.Meoff
26 August 2003, 01:34
BIG WORDS-LITTLE KNOWLEDGE

THIS GUY IS

--------------GAY----------------

Kid A
26 August 2003, 09:47
Originally posted by k_miller

Sorry that I hijacked this thread. Back to lurking.

I was just going to post the same thing. Do you remember Cpt. Mingus? (may have been Lt. Mingus at the time).

Good article on the Green Ramp Disaster: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/green-ramp/popec.htm

Thread hijack over.

k_miller
26 August 2003, 10:13
Don't remember CPT or LT Mingus off the top of my head. Which company/unit was he in? Maybe he was in another company.

The link that you posted on the "Disaster on Green Ramp" was from the book of the same name that was available at Clothing/Sales/PXs on post. I picked up a copy, but have never been able to finish it. Very analytical.

All - Thanks for the responses on Lumbert and all of the others. It if unfortunate that this was the highest loss for the 82nd in a single incident since the Battle of the Bulge. This quote was given back in 1994, so I apologize if current operations have eclipsed that.

All the way!

k_miller

ussfpa
26 August 2003, 10:57
I worked (first) the crash site and then at Womack covering the crash as an 18D...very sad day indeed. Will never forget treating the charred flesh down a kids arms and having him scream "HOOAH SGT AIRBORNE" the entire time...

A day I will truely never forget...

Primum non Nocere

k_miller
26 August 2003, 11:58
ussfpa - I want to send a thank you from all the guys that were there. That was the most amazing thing. I remember talking to Marty and trying to keep him awake as he was orange and melting in front of me. I remember fellow troopers getting evac'd out in POVs (a blue Caddie was one) and I was in the back of a cargo Humvee. Bumpy ride as we bounce our way through on-post housing to get to Womack.

I was lucky that day. I had my back to the runway, listening to the static line injury briefing when it happened. We all had little time to run, or even scatter. I was in the back row, closest to the runway when I got hit and ended up pretty close to the CONEXs, at least 25m away. The back of my head was sliced open, right ear and both hands had 2nd/3rd degree burns, bruised back, and a shattered left foot/ankle. All in all I fared well, but the Airborne/Infantry days came to a screeching halt.

In the following months of surgeries, rehab, and endless follow-ups, it was the fellow troopers who kept each other going. At the crash site and in the hospitals, I have never been more proud of the Army "family" than I had been during that experience. All the bullshit was pushed aside and you focused on one-another.

Thank you to the moderators for allowing this off-topic response. And good job in keeping this a great forum.

ussfpa
26 August 2003, 12:18
K_millerDude...
PM inbound...

Primum non Nocere

Sabre07
26 August 2003, 13:15
Originally posted by k_miller


Thank you to the moderators for allowing this off-topic response. And good job in keeping this a great forum.

The off-topic thread is better than the original thread...

Make your BDU top into a pull-over? To do what? Improve your low-crawl? Please. Get shot at. That improves your low crawl.

Keep the off-topic, can the rest.

Kid A
26 August 2003, 13:24
Originally posted by k_miller
[B]In the following months of surgeries, rehab, and endless follow-ups, it was the fellow troopers who kept each other going. At the crash site and in the hospitals, I have never been more proud of the Army "family" than I had been during that experience. All the bullshit was pushed aside and you focused on one-another.


k_miller. I can't remember right now which Company Mingus came from. He was burned pretty badly on his face and arms and I believe lost a finger or two amongst other shit. He was squared away and didn't let it affect him though. Stayed in the Army and became General Steele's Aide de Camp when Steele was Cdr of the 82d.

Steele was Commanding when the disaster happened. I was up at Div HQ at the time and the blast rocked the building. Thing is, we were suppossed to be on that jump - about 5 or 6 of us, including the Commander and Div. CSM - but didn't go for some reason I've forgotten.

I can tell you from a HQ perspective that the disaster rocked the 82d to the core. I remember MG Steele and Div CSM Slocum working all day, doing all the shit they had to do to run a Division, and still making time to visit the troops involved in the incident - those at Womac, those at UNC-Chapel Hill, and even the burn center out in Texas. They'd fly out there to lend support, come back the next day, get back out there as soon as possible. Even with some of the guys who got out of the Army, CSM Slocum and MG Steele would visit them at their homes around Fayetteville. I truly believe that they felt that this was their fault in some way, but as you know a lot of people felt the "why was he taken and I was left behind" feeling after it.

I was down there helping evacuate troops in the POVs and we were calling units getting Hummers down there, etc, to get them out, even while Ammo was still going off.

That day, and that place, was one of the worst places a paratrooper could ever be.

ussfpa
26 August 2003, 13:25
how wonderful VELCRO on your pockets are for noise discipline...:rolleyes:

Primum non Nocere

k_miller
26 August 2003, 13:40
Kid - I remember many visits by MG Steele and CMS Slocum during my month long stay in the hospital. CSM Slocum was the first to give me the roster of those we lost, when others were not wanting to let me in on the depressing news. I was later invited to be a VIP at MG Steele's CoC cermony when he left division. Getting guided to your seat by your XO is a thrill for an enlisted. I ran into now retired LTG Steele in Benning last year and was happy that he still remembered me. Yes, I also believe that those two men carried alot with them for the many years that followed.

The incident shook the entire division and the rest of the Army. I feel a loss at having had to leave the military earlier than planned, but am still very proud to have served with the men and woman of the world's best military force.

And yes, WTF was this guy smoking in reference to velcro? I guess if you have been in the military long enough to get a pair of BDUs, you surely have enough knowledge to offer advice on modifications. I'm glad he was banned!

napalm
6 September 2003, 19:46
I had to register just to reply to this thread.

7.Remove the pocket holder piece of material in the top pocket of the BDU top since its not needed and extra material.


So you mean that little pen thing in the upper left pocket could make me a heat casualty? Jeez, guess I should've ripped that thing out. :rolleyes:


8. Wear summer weight BDUs all the time--the only time you should where the winter weight BDUs is when it is really cold.
9. Obtain a set of Nomex, fire resistant BDUs for combat and Airborne/vehicle operations use

Sounds like a contradiction to me. At one point, we're supposed to wear summer-weight BDU's so we don't become heat casualties, and the next minute he's extolling the virtues of nomex clothing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that nomex is frickin' HOT.

On the BDU top, replace all pocket buttons with Velcro, this will improve your low-crawling


So, taking the buttons off my BDU top will improve my low crawl? WTF? What about that crappy LBV with the magazine pouches that just plow dirt while low crawling? Can I DX that thing too?

Maybe troops should just replace the buttons in the fly of the BDU pants with velcro too. Faster access for when the barracks ho's come around.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

JPSHEPARD81
27 September 2003, 02:02
shouldn't we take our nametapes off and also cut the front flap of all our pockets off so the buttons are showing? I bet this guy really hates the new Marine Corps cammies. What about the body armor? Should we some how wear just the ballistic plate to cut down on heat? oh yeah and the kevlar... I remember reading somewhere about the majority of your body heat escapes through your head. So that kevlar is a total heat trap. I think Ill start to wear boots without socks as well. No underwear, no socks, right? thats just my 2.

bd
1 October 2003, 09:49
Originally posted by JPSHEPARD81
So that kevlar is a total heat trap.

Nah... just drill holes in the top of it. ;)