Career Decision-PJ/CCT or SEAL?

[chiefmega]

Hello everyone. I have a career decision that I need to make in the next 1 year and would like some input from you guys. It is: Should I become a USAF pararescueman/combat controller or a Navy SEAL? Here's my situation: I'm currently enlisted in the USAF, I'm 26, I'm overseas for the next 2.5 years, & I have approx. 2 years until I fininsh my degree in Asian Studies. Here are my options:
1)finish college at age 28, get back to the states and cross-train into PJ/CCT.(unable to cross-train while overseas)
2)apply for OCS after 90sh of college credit(age27),get screened and accepted to BUD/S, go to OCS after degree completion(age 28), go to BUD/S, & become a SEAL officer(age 28-29).
3)finish out my enlistment in the USAF and enlist in the Navy under the SEALChallenge program at age 30.
Option 2 is what I'm working towards physically, mentally, & educationally. I believe the Navy SEALs are the BEST special operations force in the U.S. military. However, I've read in numerous post in many websites that SEALs are getting out of the Navy to become PJs & CCTs. If that is true I want to know why. Maybe there is something I don't know about PJ/CCT that SEALs do. There is a lot of paperpushing involved for an enlisted man to become an officer in another branch of the Armed Forces, especially a SEAL officer because of the VERY HIGH competition. However, I'm willing to go through any hardships to join the best SOF in our military. So my questions to you guys are:
1)Which options should I go with and why?
2)Do you think it's worth the trouble for me to try to be a SEAL officer when I could be an enlisted PJ or CCT?
3)Why are SEALs leaving the Navy to be PJs and CCTs?
I'm sorry the post is so long but this is an important decision for me and I need all the advice I can get. Thanks in advance for your replys.

[trident86]

I haven't heard of many SEALs leaving the community to go PJ or CCT. There have been a few, and normally it's because of an extended period of broken service, requiring them to go back thru BUD/S to be active duty SEALs again. Instead, several have gone the CCT pipeline. I suggest you talk to one of these guys, if possible: Roy Miller and
Gary Jackson

You may also want to consider what you want to do in the SOF community--these units have three distinctly different missions...

[chiefmega]

to Trident86-I understand that Pjs specialize in CSAR, CCTs specialize in airfield seizures, and SEALs do both of those and much more in marine enviroments. However, I know that all three of them work together in some missions. When they do, do the PJs and CCTs support the SEALs? (PJs-medical support;CCTs-clear airfield) From what I've read it seems that SEALs are involved more in direct action missions while the AF SOF supports them. If that's the case I would much rather have the SEAL mission.

[chiefmega]

to Trident86,
Do Pjs and CCTs work more with Army Rangers and SFs than with SEALs?

[Nissan]

Well for #2 ya gotta make sure you get your change of service request in and set before you should worry about BUD/S because if your not Navy you can't goto BUD/S and be a SEAL #3 would be probably the quickest and probably the most 'guarenteable' way of getting to BUD/S but you'd have to get a waiver to attend (max age is 28) but its been done so you should check up on that also

for your questions 1 and 2 noone can make them for you its all up to you whether you think its worth it or not...3 Trident answered

CCTs don't specialize in airfeild seizures...The CCTs are in laymans terms Air Traffic Controlers in the feild..they set up/clear/designate LZs and DZs and guide the aircraft in...

To really break it down write down what kind of job you would really want..don't be biased towards either group just make a list of what you want and what you don't...then get a copy of both units Mission Statements and go through and list their pros and cons then compare your lists...that way you can decide what is best for what you want...Good luck man

[Snake]

Correction to the 1st Poster:

CCT's would/might/maybe secure the -Tower-.
Rangers or Airborne would sieze the Airfield.
Thats what they train to do. CCT isnt big on DA. They have the capability, but not the desire. "We hide with Pride", and all that.

Snake
25th ID(L)

[This message has been edited by Snake (edited 05-29-2000).]

[WS-G]

chiefmega:

Your surest bet, hands-down, would be to cross-train into the PJ/CCT pipeline, because (1) the fact that you're already in the Air Force eliminates the "red tape", and (2) the career/academic progression timeline you project places you beyond the cutoff age for BUD/S. You must be less than 28 to enter BUD/S unless you're one of the very outstanding few who manage to get a waiver. On the other hand, unless policy has changed recently, the cutoff age for PJ/CCT is 34 years.

You may also wish to consider the Army SF and/or LRS communities. You won't be able to get a slot for dive school as a new guy, but the possibility exists for you to get it down the road. There's no age limit for entry into either SF or an LRSU, in fact some of these units have a preference for soldiers in their late 20's or older. However (and this is a big "however"), due to the fact that a guaranteed contract for SF or LRS is not available in the Regular Army, your surect bet for direct entry into one of these units would be through the Army National Guard. Don't let the part-time aspect of it worry you; they can find plenty to keep you occupied more than the commonly advertised "one weekend per month"!

Further, if you're still interested in the Naval SpecWar community but find that BUD/S is not an option, you may care to look into EOD and/or SWCC. Cutoff ages for these two courses are 29 and 30, respectively. A waiver is possible but not a sure thing. If you're interested in either of these, post a message on the EOD and/or SBU boards.

BTW.... While SEALs can take down airfields and have done so in the past (e.g.: Panamá), it's not their main job. That sort of thing is more of a 75th Ranger Regiment type of operation, and something any good Light Infantry unit is (or damned well should be!) capable of doing as well. Also, keep in mind that the SEAL Teams aren't the only ones in the Navy that do GOPLATT (Gas/Oil Platform Takedown) or VBSS (Visit/Boarding/Search & Seizure) missions, even though they are the first unit that normally comes to mind; the Special Boat Units (SBU's) have this capability as well, and in fact have carried out a few of these type of operations themselves.

------------------
ex Co. G (-)(Abn/Rgr), 143d INF(LRRP), TXARNG 1981-1985
ex 433MAW (AFRES), 1985-1991
FAA-certificated pilot and Advanced Ground Instructor

[This message has been edited by William M Salter (edited 05-30-2000).]

[Daredevil]

I believe that two CCTs jumped into the water with ST 6 in Grenada. It was the mission where four of the SEALs drowned.

I don't know if you read "Blackhawk Down" but there were four SEALs, two CCTS, and two PJs that were assigned to Task Force Ranger and took part in the huge battle that they got into. In that book it says the AF guys were kind of looked down upon by the Army guys at first but their unique skills and training proved to be somewhat valuable (the PJs as medics and the CCTs for knowing the channels all the pilots communicated on).

I remember one part where it says one of the PJs was wounded and he'd patched himself up and continued to fight, shooting with one hand and holding his own IV bag with the other.

I personally want to become a SEAL but I think the only thing keeping the PJs and CCTs from getting more respect is that they haven't had any documentaries made about them or movies where the hero was a former PJ or CCT. "First Blood" did it for the Special Forces, "Navy SEALs" and "Under Seige" did it for SEALs.

[Jims]

You are kidding about that last part, right?

[Daredevil]

Yeah, but the PJ's and CCT's really are about the only SOF that Hollywood hasn't capitalized on yet.

[chiefmega]

Thanks for all of your posts guys. I'm still leaning towards becoming a SEAL but...i'm still unsure. I definitely need to get the mission statements of these units to decide what I what to do. It just seems that the AF SOFs are support units attached to Rangers/SF & SEALs. I would much rather be in the main assault(or whatever the mission is)force. I have one more question that some of you guys might be able to answer.
Do the Special Tactics Team in Fort Bragg(or anywhere else for that matter) have personnel that train with Delta Force or DEVGRU in counter-terrorist missions?

[PatK9681]

Sorry to disappoint you Daredevil but a new action movie coming out this summer called The Perfect Storm centers around a group of PJ's sent to rescue a fishing boat caught in a storm. I guess the wannabes are gonna be coming out of the woodwork.

[Daredevil]

You know, when I first saw that preview I thought those guys were Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers. But now that you mention it, a friend of mine had read that book and he was telling me that it was really talking alot about the PJ's.

Well, I guess before to long we'll start seeing websites dedicated to exposing PJ phonies.

To cheifmega: A good friend of mine who was a Ranger down in Savannah said one of the most squared away high speed outfits he ever worked with were the CCT's. There is definitely nothing wrong with being in any of these groups.

[OldSFer]

Daredevil,

You are in for a rude awakening if you think
that the real world military life is like the movies.

"I personally want to become a SEAL but I think the only thing keeping the PJs and CCTs from getting more respect is that they haven't had any documentaries made about them or movies where the hero was a former PJ or CCT. "First Blood" did it for the Special Forces, "Navy SEALs" and "Under Seige" did it for SEALs"

More respect from who? I have had respect for (long before you were born) all the above mentioned units and more.....some that you don't even know exist(ed), and I've never even seen any of the movies you mention, with the exception of about 10 minutes of "First Blood" (barf). Speaking of "First Blood" just how did it "do it for SF"??????

All that the Hollywood shit does is attract exactly what is not needed. A bunch of glory seeking wannabe's.

[Daredevil]

No I'm not in for a rude awakening because I'm well aware it's not like any movie. Thanks though.

I meant respect from people who are generally ignorant in military matters and their only exposure is some Hollywood version of things. And my point was exactly that such movies cause wannabes. In "Stolen Valor" the movie "First Blood" is the movie the author cites as being most responsible for the "wannabe explosion" that happened in the 80's.

[Nissan]

personally I woulda expected it to be John Waynes movie "The Green Berets" to do it for SF...

[Snake]

You think -thats- bad? The only movie featuring the 25th ID(L) is freakin'
-Platoon-. You know, with the baby-killers, and psycho's? And -Charlie Sheen-!!!


Snake
25th ID(L)
Still looking for Elias's body...

[OldSFer]

Nissan,

Close but no cigar! It was Robin Moore & Barry Sadler who combined to popularize SF.
The Duke jumped in later with the movie.

Check the link in the post about LG Yarborough's birthday over on the SF board.

At the time I didn't care for Sadler or his ballad. SF was better before it became cool.

[Michael Robertson Moore]

Snake -

Wasn't James Jones in the 25th? Or I am just thinking that because From Here to Eternity is set at Schofield?

Anyhow, Frederic March's character in The Best Years of Our Lives was 25th ID(L), and he was married to Myrna Loy, so you could do worse...

MRM (Columbia University Film Division '97)

[Daredevil]

I had actually read an essay from a CIA guy in a "History of the Vietnam War" class I took in college and he said that he thinks Sadler's song was bad for SF because it started to attract too many "cowboys". That's not my opinion it was the authors. Don't shoot the messenger.

Hey Snake, how long have you been in the 25th? An old high school buddy of mine went there after he graduated West Point in '95. His name is Sullivan. Probably a lot of officers by that name though.

[Daredevil]

You guys should read "Stolen Valor". It's really good at talking about the wannabe phenomenon and how the wannabes and Hollywood feed off each other (some wannabe's story gets put into a movie and the movie inspires more wannabes and so on). He also bad mouths Oliver Stone for "Platoon" saying that Stone, as a VN Vet, should have known better.

The author readily acknowlegdes his status as a REMF in Vietnam, but at least he was there which is a lot more than the wannabes can say.