Marine wants to be a SEAL [Archive] - SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network

DevilDog21

25 October 1999, 10:45

Would anyone know if it is possible to go out for SEALS if you are an enlist Marine? It seems like it would make much more since for a SEAL team to be comprised of Marines who have comprehensive weapons and combat experience rather than a bunch of Navy guys who's only combat experience is laser tag in basic training.
Semper Fi,
Devildog21

LOCHNESS

25 October 1999, 12:37

If you feel that way about the SEALs than you should stay in the Corps. SEALs are a unit in the Navy. If you want to be in spec ops with other Marines, try out for Force Recon or Recon Bn. LOCHNESS OUT

DevilDog21

25 October 1999, 12:49

I am hardly even qualified to talk so please don't take offense to any of my statements. I know all about FR and RBn. But am still interested in the SEALS. Is it possible for me to go out for the SEAL program if I am an enlisted Marine?

RAT

25 October 1999, 13:34

As long as you have not gone to boot camp I belive that you can get out of your contract. Call the navy recrutier and they will know. But why do you want to change services? SEAL's are great, but if you don't pass BUD/S you better know that you'll be chipping paint or cleaning machine guns for your whole enlistment. Navy means you'll be on a ship or boat. I'm not saying don't try but if you get hurt, can't pass the physical, or just have a bad day on the day that you do your test remember where you'll end up.

MY .02
RAT OUT!!!

trident86

27 October 1999, 00:33

A couple of problems with this logic:
First, where are Marines getting this "combat experience"? Desert Storm was 7 years ago, and there have been a few NEOs since then. Also, we don't have much use for charging machinegun nests and foxholes, our mission is much more highly specialized.

Next, this "comprehensive weapons experience". Let me know when you've fired everything from an HK21, to an AT4, or a Stinger missile, all with a corpsman MOS. As a rule, Marines don't have the same demolitions expertise, nor are they familiar with limpet mines and such, so that argument is out the window.

When was the last time regular marines locked out of a submarine? Made a tactical jump from 35,000 feet with oxygen? Spent three hours underwater breathing pure O2 and navigating with nothing but a stopwatch and compass board? Does the average marine routinely cross train with IV's and other advanced combat medicine? Or speak foreign languages? Also, the Corps would never let an E-6 run a personal security detail for American diplomats overseas. Keep in mind these are a few of the capabilities we can talk about.

We're not even talking apples and oranges, here. You can't really compare the missions or capabilities because the taskings and chains of command are so different.

RAT

27 October 1999, 02:38

I agree with you that the SEAL'S are specialized. As for as weapons fireing most infantry Marines will in their time with the Corps shoot many diffrent weapons.

As for the other high speed low drag stuff; how many Sailors get to handel weapons, learn how to patrol, land nav, fast rope, call for fire, write op orders. I was just giving this hard charger some advice. If he does not make it which is a possiablity, that he must make a decision on what service he wants to serve.

I feel that if this young motivated person is mixed up now, if he goes into the service and does not do well, then it just brings down the service as a whole.

Jst my .02
RAT OUT!!!

trident86

27 October 1999, 07:44

My post waas directed at the original question. Regular Navy definitely does not have an advantage going to BUD/S. BUD/S is structured, however, to receive guys from "A" School or the Fleet and lead them into the world of Special Operations (provided they hang tough and don't quit). It is taught at a very basic level. The advantage regular Navy has is that guys are not too regimented in their thinking, and are easy to mold into unconventional operators. They don't have many bad habits or "training scars" to erase.

SSD

27 October 1999, 11:34

The kid talks about squids coming into BUD's with no practical ground combat training which is true, then you go off on a tangent about how Godly SEAL's are. The jist of the kids comment was Squids don't know much about what SEAL's will be expected to do while Marines have already started down the road to Warriordom.

If you think the Corps has sat around on it's ass since Storm then you need to get out more.

Fred

27 October 1999, 14:19

Maybe I can focus trident's response a little and add a tone of civility (my Army brethren's Consideration Of Others COO training comes in handy here) Devil dogs observation that "it makes sense for a SEAL Team to to be comprised of Marines...bla bla bla" is what I believe was being addressed.
1. SEALs have different unit/service culture than Marines, and subsequently attract a slightly different personality.
2. Different unit personalities lead to different strengths/weaknesses we all must live with.
3. Q:If SEAL Teams drew exclusively from the Marines, how would they differ from Recon/FR A: they wouldn't
4. Taking devil dogs logic down a slippery slope, why don't we just have 1 kick-ass bootcamp for every one so our armed forces would be better trained? Because people are attracted to the service by different things. I would guess the majority of current SEALs who are great operators would've never joined if they had to be Marines. Likewise why would a Marine want to go through Marine bootcamp, then be farmed out to a Navy Unit? Given that the interservice transfer rate is relatively low, things seem to work fine the way they are.

SSD

27 October 1999, 16:28

Damn, I think I have to agree with you Fred.

Long live the Corps,
Semper Fi.

RAT

27 October 1999, 19:32

Fred I too agree with you. You see Devil Dog. The SEALS have a higher GT score than Marines. Plus they use very good logic.

Semper FI.
RAT OUT!!!

[This message has been edited by RAT (edited 10-27-1999).]

trident86

28 October 1999, 01:51

It makes you wonder why Marines hang out on SEAL webpages and not the other way around.....We don't use any other unit as our yardstick.

RAT

28 October 1999, 18:58

OOOOHHHHHH That hurt!!!!
You know we don't need a yardstick. We know that our dick's are BIGGER and BETTER than everyones. That is why we post on all the pages. LOL...

RAT OUT!!!

[This message has been edited by RAT (edited 10-28-1999).]

lonefrog

28 October 1999, 20:54

Hey guys I'm new to this site and i posted my questions under a different heading will some of you guys go to BUD/S ans "A" school heading thats where i asked all my questions thanks.

28 October 1999, 22:33

I have a question: If a Sean the SEAL and Ronnie the Recon Marine had a race to the ground from a C130 at 25000 feet, who would win?

JOE-BOO

28 October 1999, 23:29

that is easy....which one packed the chutes?

LOCHNESS

29 October 1999, 17:38

It used to be that you needed at least a 110 GT score to get into any branch's spec ops. Is is still that way? Thanks
LOCHNESS OUT

SSD

1 November 1999, 11:57

FR and S/S still require a 110 GT score.

BUDDY

2 November 1999, 12:57

trident86. You would not happen to be the legendary Chickenhawk now would you? If you are then hey it is good to see ya'!!!!

RGV4

2 November 1999, 13:53

Alright, one quick question on the topic of GT scores- are they supposed to be equivalent to an IQ score?

trident86

2 November 1999, 22:56

Roger that, Buddy.

DemoPup

3 November 1999, 21:09

i'm no SEAL, not yet atleast, but i have heard of Delta Force boys and some Reacon and Berets becoming SEALs. So i would imagine you could try out for SEALs from or after Marine boot camp. I mena the Marines techinically are a division or branch of the Navy right??

trident86

3 November 1999, 21:32

The only way these guys went through BUD/S was by finishing their enlistments, then joining the Navy and rolling the big dice.

SSD

4 November 1999, 17:44

Check out the graduatiuon rosters of BUS/S and see if you see any Jarheads there.

trident86

4 November 1999, 19:18

Actually, there are some Marines from the early 1940's, but none since then, according to the roster. The original NCDUs and Scouts & Raiders had a conglomerate of various units and personalities.

SSD

5 November 1999, 11:47

So you're saying that the Original SEAL's were made up of Marines and other services?

Nissan

5 November 1999, 15:13

SSD the original Scouts and Raiders and NCDUs were made up of many branches but the Original SEALs and UDTs were all Navy...

SSD

5 November 1999, 16:21

So who are the originl SEAL's, Scouts and Raiders, NCDUs or UDT's?

Nissan

6 November 1999, 18:51

SSD the original SEALs were SEALs the Original UDTs were UDTs teh forerunners to those teams were the S&R and NCDUs there is a difference there....

Mike

8 November 1999, 10:31

The Naval Combat Demolition Unit (NCD) were set up in 1943 and altered to Underwater Demolition Teams (UDT) in 1944. There were a total of 28 or 32 UDTs when WWII ended in 1945.
From 1946 to 1962, there were 5 UDTs (UDT 11; UDT 12; UDT 13; UDT 21; and UDT 22 (UDT 22 was formed in 1954).
From 1962-1983, there were 3 UDTs (11, 12 and 21) and 2 SEAL teams (1 and 2). The UDTs were disbanded in 1983, well actually the 4 UDTS and the 2 SEALs Teams merged. The rest from 1983 to now is you know...

SSD

8 November 1999, 11:56

So to get it straight, the forefathers of the SEAL's were among others, Marines?

9533

8 November 1999, 14:53

SSD, You are correct. WWII demolition/raid beach units such as S&R, NCDUs and UDTs were primarily Navy but DID have Marines in them, as well as soldiers and even coast guardsmen. These units are considered by NSW as the forerunners of modern SEALs. As an aside, if my historical memory serves, the original Marine detachments on Continental Navy ship were made up of marksmen from the Continental Army. So if I were to apply your dyadic reasoning, would not the forefathers of the modern Marine Corps be soldiers?
Sempi Fi to you..or should I say "Be all you can be". *LOL*

Snake

9 November 1999, 16:32

Of course, the Continental Army only sent the "problem" children, such as alcoholics and illiterates to provide Marines to the Navy. It's heartwarming to see a tradition so faithfully continued, even to this day....

Snake (performing Retrograde Movement to avoid fanatic Jarhead Hordes)
25th ID(L)

SSD

10 November 1999, 11:37

Well, we Marines are Soldiers from the sea. It is good to know that the Daddy's of the SEAL's include Marines.

DemoPup

11 November 1999, 21:21

Well SNAKE....you know what they say about Jarheads, Uncle Sams misguided children... Course not all Marines are alcoholics... I had and uncle who served 2 tours in veitnam and he's a normal guy who likes a beer every now and then to relax.

LRSC Grunt

12 November 1999, 03:13

More like...Unorganized Shit Mass Confusion.....LMAO...Just Kidding

LRSC Grunt (following snake out the door)

[This message has been edited by LRSC Grunt (edited 11-12-1999).]

jinX

12 April 2000, 21:59

Actually the idea of FR and SEALs being the same unit is not a new one. It's tried and proven in the British Armed Forces in the form of the SBS (Special Boat Service, the Royal Marine's Special Forces). Both Royal Marine and Navy personnel are allowed to try out for the SBS, which belongs technically to both the Marines AND the Navy.

What i'm going to say next may piss some Navy people off, which i don't mean to do. I have an uncle in the Navy, so don't get too mad at me =):

In the selection process for the SBS, the final candidates are almost always composed completely of MARINES. Very few Non-Marine Navy personnel make it into the SBS.

Just an observation...

BTW, this was taken from the book "The Making of a Royal Marine Commando" by Nigel Foster. Great book, highly recommended.

------------------
"I am not a stormtrooper, I am a soldier of my country."

"I am not a terrorist, I am a freedom fighter."

Mike

13 April 2000, 11:57

to jinX,
"the very few non-marine Navy personnel who make it", would they be Royal Navy Clearance divers or?

BK101484

13 April 2000, 23:45

So Marines were some of the "first" SEALs and the Soldiers were the first Marines so who made up the Soldiers? Americans. So why all the pissing contests? Each have there specialty and leave it at that. I am not sayinf espirit de corps is not important but I would think it wise to respect members of other units regardless of the service because they are all there for one reason. Their country ... the good ole' U.S of A

jinX

14 April 2000, 06:15

Mike, it was not specified which branch or section of the Navy they came from. I'd ask on the FORNET about it.

BK101484, I agree with you on all counts. I was just throwing this fact out since the topic had veered in that certain direction and a people were asking "What's the difference between the two?" Tom Hunter put up an excellent analysis of the difference between FR and SEALs, but I think that it still begs the question: Yes, they have their specialties, but each unit can easily be trained to the level that the other is capable of. This is the situation that is going on in the UK right now; they have so few operators selected per year for the SAS (about 7-10, from what I hear) that they have been thinking of merging the SBS and the SAS. Now that's getting even more granular than the FR and SEALs merging, if you ask me.

Anyway, my point is that both units are great, but I really think that it wouldn't be a BAD think to merge FR and SEALs. After all, they're all a part of the Navy ultimately, right? Of course, a lot of people will agree with me with valid reasons. Like I said, it may not be the best way to go, but imo there are worse possibilities.

------------------
"I am not a stormtrooper, I am a soldier of my country."

"I am not a terrorist, I am a freedom fighter."

bobman

14 April 2000, 20:01

Jinx:
Could you tell me where the analysis on the differences between the two is located?

Thanks

jinX

15 April 2000, 16:52

Bobman, here is the link to the page. It's a really great analysis, and one that I feel only serves to further my opinion that the two units should be merged to gain even greater capabilities for both the USMC and the USN
http://www.specialoperations.com/Focus/Differences/Navy.htm

------------------
"I am not a stormtrooper, I am a soldier of my country."

"I am not a terrorist, I am a freedom fighter."

bobman

15 April 2000, 21:08

Thanks, JinX

DavidHM

8 May 2000, 23:00

"Spent three hours underwater breathing pure O2 and navigating with nothing but a stopwatch and compass board?"

Spending three hours underwater breathing pure oxygen? That's a sure way for diver(s) to suffer from oxygen toxicity.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about Trident86?

DavidHM

8 May 2000, 23:02

DavidHM

8 May 2000, 23:04

Jack Lutz

8 May 2000, 23:11

Draegar rebreather's use pure Oxygen.
Info: http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525 628100676e0c/dae8407c5394ad94852562810078f89e?OpenDocument (http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/dae8407c5394ad94852562810078f89e?OpenDocument)

[This message has been edited by Jack Lutz (edited 05-08-2000).]

DavidHM

9 May 2000, 00:46

[QUOTE]Spent three hours underwater breathing pure O2 and navigating with nothing but a stopwatch and compass board?

Spending three hours breathing pure oxygen? That's a sure way for diver(s) to suffer from oxygen toxicity.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about Trident86?