Service Transfer

[ROTCadet]

Anyone know about how someone would transfer from the AF to the army to fly helos if he's going to be a commissioned officer?

Cunniff

[WS-G]

If you're currently in AFROTC, have an SUPT slot lined up, and want to fly helos, why not stick with the Air Force? Considering that just about every pendulating Richard going to JSUPT is either a wannabe fast-mover or someone trying to milk the system for a couple of thousand hours of multiengine heavy transport time — at taxpayers' expense — that he/she/it (hard to tell these days!) can go trotting off with to some Part 121 air carrier once their minimum obligation has been sweated out, that leaves damned few coming up through the Air Force's training pipeline that want to be real pilots (i.e.: Rotorheads!).

If you want R/W after JSUPT Phases I/II (due to the Joint part of JSUPT, this can take place either on the T-37B or T-34C; you'll find USAF, USN, USMC and USCG students and IPs alike flying both), then all you have to do is ask for it! If you do SUPT Phase III (Helicopter) as an Air Force officer, you will be carrying out this stage of your training at Ft. Rucker, AL right there alongside your Army counterparts.

After you're rated, you'll transition either to the HH-/MH-60 or HH-/MH-53. As you may know already, the latter is unique to the Air Force. Also, as an Air Force helo pilot, it's almost guaranteed that you'll be flying in the Special Operations role from the very beginning.

Historical footnote: the only USAF officer to receive an Air Force Cross with Oak Leaf Cluster (i.e.: awarded twice) during the Vietnam War was an HH-3 pilot.

[This message has been edited by William M Salter (edited 08-21-2000).]

[ROTCadet]

The reason I ask is that I'm becoming increasingly interested in the 160th. My goal is Paves but it's tough. Most guys going for helos aren't going for them, they get stuck with them. I was down at Laughlin and when they said something about "Oh yeah there's helos too" I was proud to give the only Hoo-Ah. Plus I'm a little more rough and tumble than your average AF Joe. Not that it's bad just too business oriented. Wish I knew that two years ago. Thanks for the info and anything you could add would be great. Exploring options and all.

Cunniff

[WS-G]

You're welcome.

I know the mind-set of AF "management" all too well, having acquired that first-hand viewpoint after leaving my original LRRP company on the Army side of the house to join the Air Force Reserve.

My original idea was (1) to get my foot in the door with the AF, (2) get on flying status as an NCO, (3) use that to enhance my prospects of getting sponsored by one of the F-4 squadrons for UNT down the road, (4) finish that first tour as a WSO, then (5) try like Hell to cross-train as a fast-mover pilot.

Reason for that plan: unable to pass AF Class 1 without a waiver. My DVA is 20/200 uncorrected, correctable to 20/12, which meets Class 1A standards for initial selection for UNT and surpasses Class 2 standards for retention (but not initial selection) as a rated pilot.

At the time I was in, a rated navigator who was applying for UPT could get in with a Class 2 and was not subject to the maximum age limit (these two items have changed since then). Obviously a long-shot, but under the existing rules, it was my only chance in Hell of ever getting to be a military pilot (I was already trained as a civilian pilot).

The retirement of the F-4 in favor of the F-16, which put loads of WSOs out of work, kept my career from progressing as planned however. Thus I ended up serving out my six-year hitch in Siberia (metaphorically speaking!) as a C-5A crew chief.

To be quite blunt about it, other than a few specialties within the pilot and navigator career fields, the Air Force had nothing I deemed suitable for my abilities and interests — anything else would have been settling for less.

I did get some interesting TDY's during this time, and while there were things about the 400-odd hours of jumpseat time I managed to purloin on cross-countries that were educational, having to live day-in-day-out with the constant reminder that I could do the frontseater's job but would never be allowed to do so was an unacceptable situation.

As a result, I said "Screw it!" when it came to any further pursuit of an Air Force commission ("You'll never make a REMF out of me!") — I didn't even bother re-enlisting for that matter — and left the military altogether once my contract expired (just after the Gulf War ended).

I don't regret my time with the Air Force, however it's not something I would willingly do again. After a break-in-service of just over nine years now, I finally took the plunge and went back into the Texas Army National Guard earlier this month, and right back in the very same unit in which I'd started out back in 1981 at that: Co. G (Abn), 143d Infantry (LRS)! With Slick Willie's imminent loss-of-employment just around the corner, I decided to beat the Inauguration Day rush and re-up now http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif.

From what little I can glean about your temperament from the content of your posts, I suspect you will likely fit in much better in the Army.

[This message has been edited by William M Salter (edited 08-22-2000).]

[LRSC Grunt]

BTW (sgt?) Salter,

WELCOME BACK!!!!

[WS-G]

SGT is correct.

And thanks — It kicks ass to be back!

[ROTCadet]

Don't get me wrong the AF is nice, but maybe a little too nice. I may try and do a service transfer and get into the army, and fly helos if it's possible. I don't even know what there pilot situation is like right now. I just got back from Lackland and I'm considering all my options after I was a little disappointed down there.

Cunniff