Unabomber

[Sneaky SF Dude]

I just had a guy tell me that Kaczinsky picked his targets becuase of the type of math they were using and who developed said math.

He also claims that Youseff, Kaczinskyand McVeigh were heard speaking Arabic to each other in prison in Colorado supermax.

Anybody know anything?

[Bravo_One_Three]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
He also claims that Youseff, Kaczinskyand McVeigh were heard speaking Arabic to each other in prison in Colorado supermax.

Anybody know anything?

It's half BS. They are arranged in such a way that they can not see each other in thier cells. I have heard that they eat lunch (ate in McVeighs case) together though. I am sure that Youseff might have taught them a few phrases in that time. Kaczinsky is a nutjob, but he's also brilliant on a level that I'll never be able to comprehend. He's got a lot of time on his hands, and has access to an extensive library, and guys like that are voracious readers. I wouldn't doubt he's read "Arabic for Phsychopaths" from cover to cover. :D

[Special Forces]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
I just had a guy tell me that Kaczinsky picked his targets becuase of the type of math they were using and who developed said math.

He also claims that Youseff, Kaczinskyand McVeigh were heard speaking Arabic to each other in prison in Colorado supermax.

Anybody know anything?

Anybody having lunch with McVeigh recently has serious health problems.

Were they all in the same facility? Wouldn't think Death Row inmates would get out into the general population a lot.

TR

[Bravo_One_Three]

Originally posted by The Reaper
Anybody having lunch with McVeigh recently has serious health problems.

Were they all in the same facility? Wouldn't think Death Row inmates would get out into the general population a lot.

TR

Prior to being moved to Terre Hote, McVeigh was held in the same cell block as Kaczinsky and Youseff in the Federal Super-Max facility in Colorado.

[brewmonkey]

They were at a super max prison in Colorado (USP Florence) where they had their own wing for complete phsyco's. The prison houses some of the nations worst offenders and from what I gather from the USP guys in town here it is not treat for anyone there, not even the staff.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Anybody know anything about the math?

[1026]

Isn't ADX configured so they never leave the cell except for recreation?

[1026]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Anybody know anything about the math?

Sounds odd; why would he target airlines or the computer store for math? IIRC, his "manifesto" which led to his arrest was a leftist wish list.

[Bravo_One_Three]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Anybody know anything about the math?

No, his targets were an odd bunch. I don't think guys working for the US Forrest Service were doing to much heavy duty quantum mechanics. There was a method to his madness, but I don't think that is what it was.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Unabomber suspect may have known several victims
SAN FRANCISCO - Investigators who had long theorized that the Unabomber chose his targets from books, the media or radical environmental publications have discovered possible direct links between suspect Theodore Kaczynski and at least four of the victims.

Four of the targets had frequented universities where Kaczynski studied or worked, or had positions in those areas, federal law enforcement sources said Tuesday. And at least two bombs had written references to people who may also have crossed his path.

"I think the possibility of that is very high - that there was much more of a personal connection with these people that we previously had believed," said an investigator who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Four victims in the 16 attacks taught at, attended or frequently visited schools where Kaczynski was enrolled or worked:

Pat Fisher, professor of computer science at Vanderbilt University, was the target of a 1982 mail bomb. Fisher said he attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology when Kaczynski was at Harvard University - both in Cambridge, Mass. - in the early 1960s, and took a class at Harvard.
"We could have been in the same class," Fisher said. "I think he knew who I was." The connection continued: Kaczynski went to graduate school in the math at the University of Michigan, and Fisher frequently visited there because his father worked in the same department.
James McConnell, injured in a 1985 Unabomber attack, was a psychology professor at the University of Michigan when Kaczynski attended that school in the mid-1960s.
The Unabomber's first fatal victim was Hugh Scrutton, a Sacramento computer store owner. Scrutton took math classes at the University of California at Berkeley during the summer of 1967, the year Kaczynski began teaching in that department, although he didn't teach Scrutton's course.
Percy Wood, the airline executive targeted by a 1980 mail bomb, lived in the Oakland-Piedmont area when Kaczynski taught in neighboring Berkeley. More significantly, Wood served on the San Francisco Bay Area Air Pollution Control District's advisory council from 1967 to 1969, the years Kaczynski taught at Berkeley.
Wood told The Oakland Tribune that he didn't remember Kaczynski or any major environmental controversies that might have attracted the Unabomber's attention.

There were intriguing references to two other people Kaczynski knew in two other bombings.

In 1982, when the Unabomber left an explosive device at a computer science and engineering building at Berkeley, he left a note saying, "Wu It works! I told you it would. R.V."
In the late 1960s, when Kaczynski taught at that school, a fellow math professor was Hung-Hsi Wu. Wu told the FBI he must have known Kaczynski casually since they were in the same department, but doesn't remember anything about him.

In one mail bomb, the Unabomber used the return address of Buckley Crist, an engineering professor at Northwestern University in the Chicago area where Kaczynski lived. Crist also attended an American Physical Society conference at Berkeley in 1968 when Kaczynski taught there, but doesn't remember Kaczynski's attending.
One of the most tenuous connections involve the Unabomber's use of the name "H.C. Wickel" and San Francisco State University in the return address of a 1994 bomb that killed a New Jersey advertising executive. Investigators discovered a former San Francisco State student named Wickel who had lived in Salt Lake City in the 1970s when Kaczynski lived there after leaving Berkeley.

By The Associated Press

[GackMan]

I have his manifesto somewhere...

i used to use it as a printer test file to make sure a recently repaired printer would stand up to the task of heavy printing.

I had never heard that the two caucasians spoke arabic. but they got outside time in their cages together.

http://www.courttv.com/news/mcveigh_special/cellmates_ctv.html

Life in Supermax: Notorious criminals talked politics, swapped "smut" mags

Bombers in a row: Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski and Ramzi Ahmed Yousef

http://www.courttv.com/graphics/national/contentphotos/us_in.mcveigh_kaczynski_yousef_050801.jpg

By Adrienne Mand
Court TV

Like soldiers in a foxhole, the residents of Supermax's Unit D developed the kind of bonds that come when your days are no longer your own.

Perhaps they craved human contact as they lived out their time, confined in solitary cells 23 hours a day, in a federal penitentiary in Florence, Colo. They certainly had enough in common: Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski and Ramzi Ahmed Yousef all favored death and destruction by bombing.

Known inside the prison walls as "Bombers Row," it was here, on a wing for the most violent of criminals, that the notorious inmates formed unusual friendships. Through walls that muffled their voices, the men shouted to each other from their cells. One-hour exercise sessions in enclosed wire cages outside the prison walls allowed for better discourse.

McVeigh and Yousef engaged in intense political discussions; McVeigh and Kaczynski shared a love of nature and the ideas of survivalism; and when Latin Kings gang leader Luis Felipe joined the group in 1998, he and McVeigh traded "smut books" between cells, according to the authors of a recent book about McVeigh.

Until McVeigh was transferred in July 1999 to a new federal facility in Terre Haute, Indiana, to await execution, the foursome represented a collection of inmates not likely to be seen again anytime soon.

"It's like having the Wolfman and Dracula and Frankenstein all in the same wing," said Dan Herbeck, who wrote "American Terrorist: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing" with fellow Buffalo News reporter Lou Michel.

McVeigh will be executed June 11 for the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people. Kaczynski, known as the Unabomber, is serving four consecutive life sentences for his bombing spree across seven states. Yousef is serving 240 years for masterminding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and Felipe is serving a life sentence plus 45 years for his conviction in 1996 on 18 counts of federal racketeering charges for ordering three murders.

Blake Davis, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Prisons, said the men were held together in the unit because they required the highest level of security that could only be found in the nation's most secure federal prison.

Common Ground


Though the inmates would occasionally update each other on the status their cases, for the most part, their lawyers and others said, their conversations were simply innocuous chats. Sometimes they would complain.

A consummate news junkie, McVeigh was a loyal viewer of CNN and news talk shows that exposed what he perceived to be improper conduct by the U.S. government. So it is not hard to imagine that McVeigh would be particularly fond of Kaczynski.

"He really took a liking to Ted Kaczynski," Herbeck said. Both men were survivalists who liked to be outdoors and live off the land, and they shunned contact with the government. "They found common ground, even though they were different," he said.

Things got off to a rocky start, however. Michael Mello, a professor of law at Vermont Law School who wrote "The United States of America vs. Theodore John Kaczynski," said the Unabomber did not like McVeigh at first. That changed as they got to know each other.

"Initially, Kaczynski kind of looked his nose down at McVeigh. He saw McVeigh as a trashy kind of terrorist and himself as the rich man's terrorist," Mello said. "At first it wasn't so much respect for McVeigh's political ideology - he always saw McVeigh's as he tended to see everyone's that was not his own as being simplistic and simply wrongheaded.

"What he did come to respect somewhat was McVeigh's stoicism, the soldier in him, his willingness to accept his fate without whining, which are qualities that would tend to impress a lot of prisoners, but especially Kaczynski because those were qualities that he saw, rightly or wrongly, in himself."

Terrorists at Heart

But Kaczynski wasn't the only neighbor whose company McVeigh enjoyed. Herbeck said he greatly respected the political convictions of Yousef, convicted for the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center.

"He admired the fact that Ramzi Yousef, when he got up and was sentenced, made a long speech against the U.S. government … he said 'I'm a terrorist, and I'm proud of it because the U.S. government deserved what I did to them.' McVeigh really applauded that. He thought it was fantastic. He was kind of amazed that he would find much common ground with an Arab terrorist."

Yousef's attorney, Bernard Kleinman, said he did not believe his client talked political philosophy with McVeigh, though they did discuss movies and Yousef was pleased that McVeigh's presence shed light on his civil rights case against conditions in the prison.

But he said the relationship really was one of convenience for Yousef since he and the others were almost always locked down. Chances are he'd chat with anyone, Kleinman said, "whether it's Tim McVeigh or John Doe or you or anybody."

Girls, Girls, Girls


While McVeigh shared some intellectual interests with his bomber pals, with Felipe the interest was more common - women. Herbeck said the duo swapped what McVeigh called "smut magazines" and talked about females.

Felipe's attorney, Lawrence Feitell, said that when his client was transferred to Supermax after allegedly ordering murders from his previous prison, he sought the same privileges for him that his cell mates enjoyed.

But Felipe would have none of it. "My client was of the opinion that I acted officiously," Feitell said, adding, "He expressed the sentiment that these were not nice people and he had nothing in common with them."

Regardless, McVeigh seemed to take a certain amount of pride in the unique group of comrades. Herbeck said that when someone sought an autograph from McVeigh on a newspaper article showing photographs of the four inmates, he was quite happy to oblige.

The inscription: "The A-Team! T.J.M."

[Special Forces]

I am most sincerely happy that is the only A Team he ever made it to.

TR

[Lurch]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Anybody know anything about the math?
Ask your buddies at Harvard

[Roguish Lawyer]

[oops]

[Roguish Lawyer]

Why have you been talking to Oliver Stone, Sneaky?

[Sneaky SF Dude]

LOL - no. I think McVeigh and Nichols are tied to AQ. Always have.

[9533]

Sneaky SF,

Unabomber mainly focused on Boundary Continuous Functions!

That type of math alone won't make someone mad!!

Good Day!

9533

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Yeah, after a little research, that's what I came across as well. I don't know what it is, but apparently, some of his targets were using some other kind. I don't know.

[9533]

Sneaky SF Dude,

Boundary Continuous Functions are based in Euclidean Mathematics…they are the actual curvilinear equations of certain non-orthogonal geometric shapes in N-dimensional space!
Such as the geometric properties of circles, ellipse etc.

Good Day Pal,

9533

P.S. I thought you were a fellow Ivy Leaguer!…LOL

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Now how did I know you were going to do that? I no absolutely nothing about any of this. And as it will not help me start an IV with NODs on an MH 53 at 0300, or make my rifle shoot straighter, or make me faster through the door, or make my Claymores do more damage - nor do I care.

I am not a Harvard man, I am a mentor of lost souls attempting to find themselves by using my beloved Special Forces as a stepping stone. My interest in recruiting for Harvard is not positive (to benefit Harvard), it is negative (to keep them out of Special Forces).

Now you have invaded my N-dimensional space with your non-orthogonal geometric shapes. This would normally cause me to twist your OODA loop into a bowline, but not today.

Seriously, thanks for trying, but that dog don't hunt Boat Man.:D

[9533]

Roger Sneaky!

Good luck with the recruiting!!

9533:D

P.S. You still consulting? How is business?

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Always slow this time of year.

[Gulf Yankee]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
My interest in recruiting for Harvard is not positive (to benefit Harvard), it is negative (to keep them out of Special Forces).

ROFLMAO :D

I just had dinner with a Harvard girl yesterday. I wish I read this line then!

[Bandaid]

Originally posted by Gulf Yankee

I just had dinner with a Harvard girl yesterday. I wish I read this line then!

Trying the "Good Will Hunting" approach huh, GY? LOL

[Sabre07]

Originally posted by 9533
Sneaky SF Dude,

Boundary Continuous Functions are based in Euclidean Mathematics…they are the actual curvilinear equations of certain non-orthogonal geometric shapes in N-dimensional space!
Such as the geometric properties of circles, ellipse etc.

Good Day Pal,

9533

P.S. I thought you were a fellow Ivy Leaguer!…LOL

That is the exact shape of the mother ship...

[Scotty]

One of my favorite things to say, "That dog just won't hunt!" It's gotten many a girlfriend angry at me (especially when I get them saying it!) and has ended many a boring conversation!

Kindred spirits, I tell you!

9533, whatever math-gook you just said sounds like the teacher in "Better Off Dead" where the class is so enamored with physics! He says something like you just did and the class all laugh...

I'm just too blonde for that mess. "Can that equation get me to the chow hall on a topo map? No? It ain't useful... That dog just ain't gonna hunt!"

Scotty

[9533]

Sabre007,

What ever you do don't cut your dick off, drink the coolaid and put a purple cloth over your face...LOL


Scotty,

Repeat after me...math is our friend...math is our friend!!

LOL

9533

[Huey One Four]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
LOL - no. I think McVeigh and Nichols are tied to AQ. Always have.

That would make a lot of sense. Would'nt it have been uncovered during the investigation though?

Mind you, it could be that "they" don't want people to know it.


Hmmmmm.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by Huey One Four
Would'nt it have been uncovered during the investigation though?



Only if they investigated and investigated through to the end.

"Peering out from my protective hockey helmet to say - I am not an FBI agent but I do know some people that were."

The FBI is a political organization that probably does as much as they are allowed to do by their policy masters. Finding a link between OKC and the ME probably would not have been conducive to furthering Clinton's appeasement policy in the ME and definitely would have put a damper on his bid for the Nobel Peace Prize. Of course in hindsight, the blue dress took care of that.

Nichols was seen with ramzi Youseff in Manila. How was he going to Manila when he didn't have a job? Plus, some say the guards at Supermax heard McVeigh speaking in Arabic to Youseff.

"I am sorry for having posted - slipping back into lurk mode now."

[Bandaid]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Only if they investigated and investigated through to the end.

"Peering out from my protective hockey helmet to say - I am not an FBI agent but I do know some people that were."
....."I am sorry for having posted - slipping back into lurk mode now."
I really appreciate the Christmas humor.

edited...

Is there proof of a mcveigh/ ME connection?

[1026]

Clinton had also just had his ass handed to him in the '94 elections, largely due to the "angry white male gun owner" vote. He needed to have OKC be a white only affair. It can be argued that his conduct in the aftermath of the bombing went a long way toward securing a second term.

Someone taught McVeigh and Nichols how to make that bomb, and it wasn't the cadre at Ft. Benning, as some in the media would have us believe.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

First, let me say I am BTDT, but I am stupid, so forgive me for posting and slipping in and out of lurk mode.

I don't think its inconceivable that McVeigh turned based on his observation of the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people in GW1. If you take a guy that has problems with authority already. it could be the "proof" he needs that the gov is evil. I've heard people talking about this OCONUS, usually at their ETS parties.

Some Sp/4 that never left the base - "Man, I gotta tell you. I feel like I really helped the little people while I was here. I mean I really leanred a lot about their culture and they're really good people. Its a crime the way we're exploiting them. If I was Colombian/Peruvian/Ecuadorian, I'd probably join the FARC/SL/GCP..." Of course they never left the gate during their tour except to go shopping or to the beach and they don't really know any of the little people except those working in the mess hall.

I'm sorry for posting.

[Scotty]

Originally posted by 9533
Scotty,

Repeat after me...math is our friend...math is our friend!!

LOL

9533

Listen, get this. I work at a bank and I still have to take off my shoes to count to the "big numbers". The thing about being "prime minister" for a bank is that you have OTHER number people to do the math for you. Then you blame it on them when next year's returns aren't so good.

And the thought of Timmy McVeigh having the knowledge and ability to do what he did on his own disturbs me. I just don't think he could have.

Post on, Sneakman. Testify!

Scotty

[Sneaky SF Dude]

I kind of hoped the LEOs would chimed in on this. I would think they would know more about this than I would. Of course all they want to do is argue about guns and what not. :D

[Teutates]

Originally posted by Scotty

And the thought of Timmy McVeigh having the knowledge and ability to do what he did on his own disturbs me. I just don't think he could have.


Scotty,

One does not require a PHD to construct an explosive device. With the advent of the internet and many books on the subject anyone could build a weapon of massive destructive potentional. I have no doubt that even McCoward could have accomplished the feat single handed.

It’s the choice of terrorists because of that reason and the fact they are cowards to the end.

Teutates

[Bandaid]

edited....

I think mcveigh really didn't do all that much. Can't anyone above the age of 18 rent a ryder truck and mix a few barrels of fertilizer and household chemicals together. Why does everyone believe he shouldnt have been able to do that by himself? With an internet connection and the desire, all the info could be obtained to pull it off.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

good morning and Merry Christmas Team Sergeant.

[Scotty]

Two-

Roger that on the making of the device, but I was referring to the actual planning of what to hit, the angle of the blast, the amount of AN to use, etc.

I guess the impression I have of McVeigh was that he was kind of a weekend warrior hick who needed guidance to tie his shoes. I know that's a misinterpretation, but it seemed too "well done" for the impression I have of him and his intelligence.

Scotty

PS - Stand by for PM.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Plus, where did they get the money?

[Huey One Four]

Apprantly he was inspired by the Turner Diarys, which, I understand, is just a big how-to on bombs and shit.

I'll be looking into this one a bit more.

[Bandaid]

I thought the funding came from their little anti-fed militia? How much money was needed to make a device like that? I wouldn't have thought cost would have been a factor for such an operation....

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Not much I would imagine, but some. But Nichols went to Manila several times. from what I understand, neither of them were employed for a while prior to the event.

[Teutates]

Originally posted by Scotty
Two-

Roger that on the making of the device, but I was referring to the actual planning of what to hit, the angle of the blast, the amount of AN to use, etc.

I guess the impression I have of McVeigh was that he was kind of a weekend warrior hick who needed guidance to tie his shoes. I know that's a misinterpretation, but it seemed too "well done" for the impression I have of him and his intelligence.

Scotty

PS - Stand by for PM.

There was no "angle of the blast" he parked it in front of the building and like the coward he was left it and ran away. You give him too much credit. Be happy in the fact he was an beginner. It could have been far worse. That's where I end my observation of bombing cowards.

T

BTW Merry XMAS Sneaky.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Wouldn't AQ or whoever have claimed credit for OKC if they were behind it?

[Bandaid]

I get offers in the mail for credit cards with ungodly limits almost daily. They could have used that route for funding. Of course, these wackjobs thought they would get away with it. The cards would have been fraudulently obtained to prevent their ID (not that hard to do). Has anyone seen the government’s evidence presented at trial? I am sure that is one of the first avenues the investigation took once the perps were caught.

Also, a lot of these militias use the same source as Sneaky's favorite topic the FARC. That is.... Drugs. Couldn't that explain why Nichols and/or a member of one of these militias traveled to the Philippines? Or maybe it was just a LBFM hunt before the big bang in OKC?

I really didn't think they had such a "professional" plan on the attack. He was not the traditional "die for the cause" type martyr that AQ tended to facilitate and fund. Their attack was a single event (not multiple targets) unlike most of AQ's recent attacks.

To me, by happenstance the OKC bombing turned out like the WTC attack. It was supposed to be a big event to make a political statement. Due to luck, the effects were more dramatic than even the planners had predicted. After all, even the leadership of AQ didn't think the towers would actually go down from what I have read.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Just thinking out load. They bombed WTC in 1993, Yousef was captured on 7 Feb 95. The OKC bombing was 19 Apr 95.

Could they have used Nichols and McVeigh because:
1) They almost got caught the fisr time because of the traffic accident?
2) They figured gringos could move more freely in OKC?
3) Yousef was already in custody?
4) They simply wanted a big boom and the federal building was agreed to by Nichols and McVeigh?

Good stuff here.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2002/01-28-2002/vo18no02_okc.htm

Seems like Nichols' wife, Marife (mail order bride) and her sister appears to have known Wali Khan Amin Shah (Yousef conspirator and close friend) through a mutual friend.

I don't believe in coincidence. This follows a pattern of using malcontents for dirty work used for hundreds of years. Its in HFCUI. I agree with Teutates - McVeigh and Nichols are scumbags and I think they were used by Yousef to do this. It was a relatively simple plan keeping with the capacity of these two idiots to carry it out. If you factor in increased security in federal buildings after WTC1, it makes sense they would have done it the way they did. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I find it hard to believe there wasn't a tie in.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

There's no way I'm going to believe that Nichols JUST HAPPENED to marry a mail order bride that JUST HAPPENED to have a friend that JUST HAPPENED to know a friend of Yousef's.

[Bandaid]

I have not done the research to debate this one with you Sneaky. I will have to read up on the latest. I was not aware of the wife connection. I am going to have to "cheat" again for my future answers. LOL

I wasn't implying your a conspiracy theorists. I know where you get this analysis, and who am I to pretend to question master Y. As the short/green guy says:

""Always two there are, a master and an apprentice." LOL

[Sneaky SF Dude]

I don't know that much about it either. Try "The New Jackals"

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Wouldn't AQ or whoever have claimed credit for OKC if they were behind it?

Interesting points you make, Sneaky. But I don't think my question has been answered, at least not directly.

I could see Communists trying to wreak general havoc to create revolutionary conditions, but I don't see AQ doing the same. Isn't their primary objective to get us out of the Middle East? It isn't to bring down and replace our government, is it? How does OKC advance AQ objectives if AQ doesn't claim credit?

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Good point. How does the WTC advance their objective of pulling out of the ME?

[Razor]

Sneaky, you've been spending waaay too much time reading. Go do some PT to clear your head, then have an egg & SPAM sandwich and this will all go away. :D

[Sneaky SF Dude]

I will if you quit picking on the cadets.:D

Terrorism is my life. LOL

[okami1]

In terms of the US leaving the ME, isn't one of the stated goals of terrorism to make the situation so unbearably horrific so as to undermine the resolve of those "infringing" upon the terrorists? By bringing the attacks to US soil and thereby providing a direct result to the American people, who are used to watching the results on CNN, I think they believe that the American public will be able to be used as a tool against the administration.

It seems that a lot of the Vietnam comparisons are coming up recently, perhaps it is looked at as a model for changing foreign policy through the public opinion. Ideologically, the WTC was a huge target, but in terms of value as a military target? Possibly, it represented a strike against the confidence of the people as a soft target, and was more politically motivated more than anything else.

[Razor]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
I will if you quit picking on the cadets.:D

Terrorism is my life. LOL

Everybody needs a hobby of some sort. ;)

[BadMuther]

then have an egg & SPAM sandwich and this will all go away.

Only thing that will go away after that will be half of Sneak's rectum....

As for the OKC bombing...I believe it was Soldier of fiction that threw out the thesis of Mcveigh being apart of a bankrobbing crew. Make ssense.

I think there was a lot more to the whole story then we will ever find out, especially now that Mcveigh is dead.

What about Andy Strassmeir (sp?)...what happened to him? Huge manhunt for him, and then, "oh, don't worry, he's nobody..."

The story about that aryan chick who was an atf informer at "elohim city" is pretty good too....

Here's a conspiracy question....why was it that all most all of the ATF agents and FBI agents were out of the building that morning? Coincidence?

hopefully this thread won't go the way of the WACO thread......

[Bandaid]

edited...

[BadMuther]

Why's it gotta be like this? There is UFO's at area 51, don't you know?

Look it's right here:

http://is2.dal.ca/~timmaly/omcl.html

It's on the internet so it must be true!

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE BELIEVE ME?


No, I don't want my meds, it's not time, Mommy!!!!!!!!!

Bandaid, are you a BATman? You have to answer truthfully if asked, otherwise it's entrapment.......

[Bandaid]

edited....

[BadMuther]

You make joke. hahha. Not very funny. You'll see.....


KILL WHITEY!!!


Where's that pesky SF medic to get this back on track?

[Sneaky SF Dude]

What happened?

[Razor]

Originally posted by wm311
Why's it gotta be like this? There is UFO's at area 51, don't you know?

Is there? Ranger grammar cleanup, Aisle 51. :D

[BadMuther]

I'm still missing the grammar lesson. Just another dumb 11B, I guess.....

Mister ossifer, can you show a dumb Ragnar his mistake?

;)

Sneak-

I dunno what happened.....bandaid started making fun of me, and then I got some moisture in my er, I mean my eye, but I wasn't crying or nuthin.....

[Haggis]

anybody heard of a victory dance going on since OKC.

[BadMuther]

huh???????

[ktek01]

Originally posted by wm311
I'm still missing the grammar lesson. Just another dumb 11B, I guess.....

Mister ossifer, can you show a dumb Ragnar his mistake?

;)



Should have been "Dey is..." :D

[BadMuther]

Sit foo!! Why Razor got to be all up in my grill? Where's Earthpig? He be busin out sum funky sit yo!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Good point. How does the WTC advance their objective of pulling out of the ME?

Their theory may be that we will get scared and lose the will to defend our interests in that part of the world.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Their theory may be that we will get scared and lose the will to defend our interests in that part of the world.

Ok, then why wouldn't a strike in the heartland be a good idea? We can hit you in NYC and OKC and anywhere else we want.

Can you thing of two more different targets than NYC and OKC?

I think a lot of people, me included, didn't really get a good impact from WTC '93. "Its NYC, shit happens there, move on." OKC was a different story for me personally, I lived there once for a short while.

[BadMuther]

Sneak,

I'm having a hard time with the theory of Nichols and Mcveigh being AQ. Not to doubt you, but do you have a source for some of that info?

I guess I can see it in a "useful idiots" kind of way, but I think that those two were more homegrown tangos then anything else.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

I'm not saying they were AQ. More useful idiots.

But think of the implications if there is an AQ shadow on OKC. Not 2 of 3, but all 3 of the worst terrorist incidents in the US would be tied to those people. Not one target, but two - 100% increase. Not just the easy East Coast, but the heartland.

And the cover up!

[BadMuther]

Okay, I'm with ya there.

The coverup was all fucked up....

Tinfoil hat aside, what about "john doe #2"? and you have to wonder if Mcveigh was a patsy....idiot gets caught driving a vehicle with no plates and intel on the front seat? What a maroon.....

The thing that suggests to me the most that someone in the feds might of had an inkling that something was going to go down, but not knowing exactly when, is the absence of so many FBI and ATF employees from the Murrah bldg. Just raises some interesting questions.....

The soldier of fiction series on OKC is pretty good....

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Seems like I read where they found some extra pieces/parts in the rubble at OKC. I've also heard that that Padilla dude looks like the sketch (all those sketches look alike to me). Driving without plates is not uncommon for those wierdos. My brother was LEO and I used to ride with him and we'd see them all the time. he called them the "Davis Mountain boys". They think plates and driver's licenses are against the Constitution or some shit. i don't know.

There may not be a tie, but like I said. Nichols JUST HAPPENED to marry...? No way.

I wish they hadn't executed McVeigh so quick. He deserved to die, but so many things he could have answered. Hell, I would have made him a deal. tell us everything and we'll turn you over to the Taliban and you can die like a man - with an 81mm round up your ass. Of course that's with hindsight.

[BadMuther]

I agree on Mcveigh. I heard the stuff about extra body parts too.

I know about not having plates, but you think in this instance, from a tactical perspective, that Mcveigh would want his vehicle to attract the least amount of LEO attention as possible....

But then again, he was a leg.......;)


and an asshole to boot. I used to think that they should fry all of those types, but now I think life in prison is way worse a fate. Death is too easy for scumbuckets.

I gotta run Sneak.

"RLTW in support of SF"

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Ok, then why wouldn't a strike in the heartland be a good idea? We can hit you in NYC and OKC and anywhere else we want.

Can you thing of two more different targets than NYC and OKC?

I think a lot of people, me included, didn't really get a good impact from WTC '93. "Its NYC, shit happens there, move on." OKC was a different story for me personally, I lived there once for a short while.

It would be from their perspective. But if they don't claim credit, there is no link to the ME and therefore no scare value for them.

I still don't understand why there haven't been more attacks. It just doesn't seem to me that it would be hard for them to send a bunch of suicide bombers to shopping malls, airport security areas, etc. Or just unleash a bunch of hadjis with rifles.

It seems to me that (1) we're doing an incredible job of tracking these guys down and making them think defense (at the expense of offense), (2) the threat is just not what we thought it might be, or (3) they are waiting to do something really big. I can't imagine it's #2. Maybe 1 and 3 together?

Happy holidays to everyone.

[okami1]

[i]Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I still don't understand why there haven't been more attacks. It just doesn't seem to me that it would be hard for them to send a bunch of suicide bombers to shopping malls, airport security areas, etc. Or just unleash a bunch of hadjis with rifles.


I work with an Israeli security company part time, and asked the same question of them. Why haven't there been more bombings here? It is nearly impossible to stop a motivated suicide bomber from walking into a Starbucks and blowing himself up, so if AQ is here in the states, why haven't they? The general consensus from these guys, some of whom just recently got out of the IDF was this: It is easy for a motivated bomber to stay that way when they are living in Ramallah or Jenin in a state of constant war with Israel.

While not necessarily the end all of reasons for the lack of attacks here in the US, they suggested that if there are jihadis here in the states waiting for the order to come through, living as good citizens, it would be hard for them to maintain absolute motivation. They've seen it in Israel, where someone with terrorist sympathies gets a job, supports their family, maybe buys a house, and generally becomes prosperous. When that happens, the resolve to blow yourself up may become compromised. When you see your family thriving and happy, you have comfort and peace, the last thing you want to do as a human being is ruin that. I imagine only the most devout Wahhabi would be able to resist those "temptations".

I saw that as a victory for our way of life, our values, and our convictions if it is true. It's an interesting point to consider anyway.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Very interesting insight. Thank you. I hope others in the business will comment.

[Teutates]

[i]I still don't understand why there haven't been more attacks. It just doesn't seem to me that it would be hard for them to send a bunch of suicide bombers to shopping malls, airport security areas, etc. Or just unleash a bunch of hadjis with rifles.
[/B]

May just be running out of stupid people.

Not everyone is dumb enough to strap a bomb to themselves and murder innocent people.

My guess is there are only a few idiots left and their saving those for a big job.

Good point to ponder.

[okami1]

In my above post, I realized that I made the ASSumption that all potential jihadists would be men. If one thing is clear, it is that AQ has always shown a willingness to adapt its tactics to reflect the changes being made in security measures to counter them. There have been some fairly recent articles outlining the lives of these mujahida, the wives of jihadists. Many have come out of Chechnya, where the so called Black Widows have waged a campaign of bombing. Most of them are educated but obviously misguided. Yet another thing to be mindful of in the search for potential threats and concern over when and where the next attack will be.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

You think AQ is running Chechnya?

Team Sergeant - running out of stupid people? Come on now.

[okami1]

Well, "Al Qaeda" does translate roughly as "The Headquarters". I'm not so sure that they are running that campaign, but I would be very surprised if there wasn't some sort of collaborating going on between AQ and the Chechens. Training camps and indoctrination possibly, in an attempt to spread the resources of the "infidels". It doesn't seem likely that they are sharing anything other than ideology and training, the Chechens have shown a propensity to use cellular detonated IEDs against the Russians. If there is an AQ involvment in Iraq, both insurgencies show similar symptoms. I would venture that they feel bound together because of their mutual struggle, and sympathizers are at a premium when it comes to terrorist networking these days. Would it be feasible for them to share materials and weapons with one another?

The most recent article I read about the mujahidas was dealing with Pakistani women, many of them referenced the Black Widows as a source of inspiration for their own resolve.

[frickinnewguy]

The most obviuos conection of al queda to the chechyan criminals was the pesense of Khattab. A suadi citizen and former jordanian army officer, he and his arab jihadists set up the logistics networ that ran from iran to azerbijan and up through gergia then into checynaya and dagestan. You can check out this practioner of the relgion of peace at pravda.ru english or just do a google search on him. He left behind a network that is still being used, and it was this network that allowed the transit of chechyan mercanaries to get to afganistan and kashmir. as to why they dont use white looking checyans to conduct attacks here and in britain where they would not atract much attention i dont know, but this may be a future tactic. p.s. gergia is so corupt they could bribe their way through the (gergian part of the)system and get a visa, its something to think about, unlike arabs these guys have no fear.

[okami1]

The best thing about that guy was his hair. Wow, a terrorist with a jerry curl, that's gotta be a first.

[1026]

Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Team Sergeant - running out of stupid people? Come on now.

I think Top has a point there.

While the Jihadists may have a limitless supply of stupid people, they have a short supply of smart stupid people. The guys who carried out 9/11 were educated people who had lived abroad and could fit in to some extent. Atta held a Masters in architecture and the shitbird who crashed in PA was raised as a Lebanese Catholic. They had education and experience outside of the madrases.

Those kinds are few and far between; you can't take your average ignorant Arab who wipes his ass with his bare hand and expect him to fit in here.

Al Qaeda can't squander such precious resources on shopping mall suicide bombings; they need a bang for the buck.

They can't recruit young Arab bombers here, because most of them are doing well. We don't have Gaza-type Arab ghettoes, we have young guys from middle class families who are more concerned about the bling-bling and baggy pants than they are about "Jihad".