TO DEEPSAND in Regard to comments on Joining Navy Seals

[APOCALYPSE]

Did you really need to be so sarcastic in the forum. What is wrong with wanting something badly and working hard to achieve it. You shouldnt tell people what they cant do because with hard work almost anyone can achieve anything they set their mind to.Also are you currently a Navy SEAL?

[pn]

Deepsand, I don't want to jump on you too hard, but read the quote on the front page of specialoperations.com

You had your chance. Don't try to scare another young wannabe out of his.

-pn

[Nissan]

pn I'm shooting from teh hip on this but your post got me thinking...maybe he decided if he couldn't make it he was gonna try and stop as many as possible...maybe its just me but he sure seems to have that attitude...

DeepSand You can try and hammer me with facts all day about how the military works and all that jazz but guess what no matter what you say there will always be that person that says "F*** what he has to say I can do this" and they'll surprise the hell outa everyone just my .02$

PS The best motovational info isn't always true and if ya think it is then you need a reality check..

[LRSC Grunt]

I posted this in another string but I think it should be addressed in this one too.

deepsand(eric),
Are you saying that there has NEVER been a person that completed BUDS or RIP/Pre-Ranger/Ranger School, US army SCUBA school, or even MFF, ect... and successfully completed their tours KNOWING that they had a chronic ailment and lied about it? Some of the hardest and most successful soldiers I know are the ones who overcame personal obsticles. The ones who NEVER use it as an excuse for failure. Did you know that General Patton was Dislexic? Or did you know that Einstein was Attention Deficite? If you were to ask them about it they would tell its all in your head. I agree that if someone had asthma so severe that it was crippling, or if some one had Depression so severe that he was suicidal, some one that allowed it to take over their life, or someone with something really serious that does hinder themselfs, then they should not be allowed to enlist. But if its something that isnt bothering the person, or misdiagnosed at one time then they have all their right to enlist, even if it was in Spec Ops profession. And no they cant find out about your previous medical history. According to a family friend, of which was a shrink in the air force and is currently running her own practice, said that by law they can not track down civilian medical records unless it was involved in their criminal history record or if the person was committed by a judge to a mental institution. They cant, it infringes upon the patients rights for doctors and insurance agencies to give that information out. Welcome to America http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

And Also... The military does not test for steroids in their "routine drug tests". However they do submit a special drug test specifically for steroids only if the person is suspected of using it. Also..The medication for asthema that is refferred to as a "steroid" is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid nor is it even closely related. Did you know that cholesterol is a steroid/hormone too?

On another note:Manic Depression

Just because the kid is diagnosed with depression because they have an over reactive parent due to being a normal teanager doesnt mean they have a serious problem. Most shrinks diagnose it because they tell the parents what they want to hear, which in turn brings more visits, which in turn brings in more money. Even if it was a problem, isnt that what basic training, BUDS, Ranger School..ect is there for? To break them down to nothing, then build them back up into a self confident, proud, and mentally stronger person? I say this because I was diagnosed with depression when I was younger and I can tell you this. I have a chest full of awards, coins, and a stack of good counseling statements to say otherwise. Am I manically depressed? I think not.



[This message has been edited by LRSC Grunt (edited 11-14-1999).]

[LRSC Grunt]

Or not take the pill at all.

[Nissan]

Deepsand maybe you've never heard of this either but pilots cheat on their physicals also...but maybe you wern't elightened about that before so I'll do it now...The biggest thing for pilots is vison..now true most pilots will have perfect vision and it will stay that way for their carreer but what about those guys that slowy lose it..you think they just say..."hey I'm losing it I gotta stop" no they don't...they take those ways of cheating on teh eye exam and use em to keep their wings and opperational status..true this is dangerous but its done..Also with SEALs being colorblind thats supposedly a disqualifier too...well there were quite a few SEALs that were colorblind one of the more popular was James Janos aka Jessie Ventura. I think you need to look back on what your saying do some research and then keep your mouth shut when someone says "I wanna do this but will this condition stop me?" because if they work hard enough they can achieve their goal no matter what it is. Its happened before and WILL happen again no matter how much you might not want it to happen

Like many agencies are when it comes to certain topics I'm very anal retentive when it comes to this one..don't tell someone they can't do something until they go out try and can't do it because the difference between those that make it and those that don't are 2 words....I QUIT...besides the doughnuts are stale and the coffees cold.

[trident86]

The important issue here is whether or not you are endangering your teammates. We don't want you if you can't cut the physical, medical, or mental standard. No one has time to carry your weight through training, or once you check into your team. If you do not meet the vision standards, then find another job--we don't need to be ambushed because you lied on a physical and can't see.

The asthma thing is a different story, and totally depends on how and when you react. A lot of professional athletes also have asthma, but perform as well or better than anyone else. Again, think of a patrol in hostile territory with an asthmatic having a bad attack--wrong time and place, and sorry if it hurts anyone's feelings. Coughing while on a dive is not good, either, since you can embolize (blow out a lung), or give off bubbles which may kill you and your buddy close to a target. Keep in mind that most people grow out of it around 14 or 15 yrs. old.

The medical standards are there for a reason, so look closely at just how bad off you are, and whether or not it will affect the team. If not, then by all means be careful what you say to the MEP people.

[LRSC Grunt]

Deepsand(eric),
Yes I did have asthma when I was a little child. In fact I was hospitalized a couple times because of it. But since then I have grown out of it. Ive run cross country, track, played soccor, baseball, and was a star tail back in both high school and Jr. High. Not only that but I am a grunt, a typical day of PT for me is to run 2 to 7 miles. Now tell me...am I asthmatic??? FUCK NO!!! My point I am trying to get across is that if I did tell MEPS everything about my past medical history then it would have been slim for me to even get in. But fuck no...nothing in the world was going to get into the way of me reaching my goals. And here I am now, I proved the world was wrong...I beat the system. Is there something wrong with that? I dont fucking think so.

[WS-G]

Not to mention...

The late Werner Moelders of the Luftwaffe, considered the father of modern air-to-air combat tactics and with 110 confirmed air-to-air kills to his credit, suffered from chronic airsickness throughout his career.

General (a mere Captain at the time, though) Jeffrey Feinstein, USAF, was rejected as a pilot by the Air Force due to nearsightedness (uncorrected DVA of 20/100). He went through navigator training instead, and went on to become the top US ace of the Vietnam War: all six kills from the back seat of an F-4D! He was finally allowed to cross-train as a pilot after returning Stateside under an exception to policy.

And Naval SpecWar related: Draper Kaufman himself was originally denied a Regular Navy commission due to defective vision.

BTW, Nissan, military aviators experiencing degradation of uncorrected vision do not "cheat" on their eye tests, no matter what TV-land may lead one to think. The "20/20 uncorrected" bit only applies on the initial medical exam, prior to training. The USAF and US Army visual acuity standard for a qualified pilot to remain on flight status without a waiver is 20/400 correctable to 20/20 or better with spectacles. About half of the experienced military pilots with whom I'm flown (and the vast majority of backseaters, myself included) wear glasses.

[This message has been edited by William M Salter (edited 11-16-1999).]

[LRSC Grunt]

Hey Salter,

What is a LRRP Paratrooper like yourself doing flying aircraft??? Shouldn't you be jumping out of one instead???

[bd]

How about asking Tom to ditch Mr Deepsand from the forum? All this guy does is stir up trouble. Just a thought.

BD

[Monster]

I thought Deepsand made some good points, perhaps is gruff and too direct though.

[LRSC Grunt]

From the looks of things he already booted him. But I have the feeling he is using another screen name. Its just a matter of time before he gets booted again.

[Tom Hunter]

DeepSand has been booted and his old posts removed - I just wish I'd seen them sooner.

[WS-G]

LRSC Grunt:

Very good question! When I was growing up, my original hard-core career-progression goal was: (1) AF or Naval Academy, (2) Undergraduate Pilot Training (or its Navy equivalent... Fighter/Strike Jet pipeline, of course!), (3) A squadron tour or two (I especially drooled over B-52's and F-105's back then), (4) Edwards AFB or NAS Patuxent River (Experimental Test Pilot course) and finally (5) NASA.

While the original goal had been to ultimately become a pilot-astronaut, I'd acquired an interest in the world of unconventional warfare after seeing the role that the UDT's had in the Gemini and Apollo programs, and decided to learn more about the Army side of the house after seeing The Devil's Brigade and The Green Berets. It wasn't until I'd gotten into the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program at the age of 14 that anyone ever told me my nearsightedness had already taken me out of the running for becoming a military pilot. By the time I started high school, my distant visual acuity had dropped to 20/400, though correctable to better-than-20/20 (I'm up to 20/200 uncorrected the last few years. Unlike most other vision abnormalities, nearsightedness actually improves with age!).

I thought it was a fucked-up deal then, and still do, but I wanted to serve anyway and was determined that I was absolutely not going to be relegated to pogue-dom, so I began looking into the available options in the SOF world. The programs involving underwater diving (SEALs, UDTs [which still existed back then], USAF Pararescue) were out (eyeballs again!), but I found I'd be good-to-go to become an Army Ranger or SF'er. Opted for that route, planning to enlist under the DEP for the Ranger Option once I was old enough. I should point out, that at 16, if anyone had told me I'd ever enlist into anything other than the Regular Army, I'd have laughed in his face, but finding out about the old 36th Airborne Brigade, I decided the Guard had some high-speed units to offer as well, and best of all, I could sign up at the minimum age allowed and start drilling immediately instead of waiting around until after high school. By the time I graduated, I'd already gone through Basic the previous Summer and had 1 year and 4 months of service behind me, doing real training, with a real unit (the 143d).

Stayed on for just over 4 years, then transfered to the Air Force Reserve (433rd Military Airlift Wing, Kelly AFB, TX), where I spent the next 6 years as a C-5A crew chief. Finally got out just after the Gulf War ended.

Presently trying to get my foot in the door as a law enforcement officer; as I see it, flying for the LE community is the next best thing to flying for the military.

[LRSC Grunt]

Salter,

Its nice to see a Houston Light Guardsman moving on to better things. I wish you the best of luck!!!