explosives identification

[DCSO]

My apologies for my intrusion into your part of the world gents, but I have a question and this seemed the most appropriate place to ask.

Attended a class for emergency response to terrorism today and the explosives module peaked my interest. I am looking for a publication (book or other) on explosives identification. I have seen the book by Pickett and thought I would ask your opinions here before buying it. Any help is apperciated.

STAY SAFE

DCSO

[Bohr Adam]

Are you looking to notice an IED, identify commerical explosives, or military muntions?

I Googled this picket guy - and I may be just a lowly student of the ol' NAVSCOLEOD but I am not sure what he is trying to teach (I am sure he is making a killing).

I think Janes publishes a military munitions EOD CD, but it is more than just ID, it has Render safe and disposal procedures as well - and costs a shitload. The pubs Uncle Sam uses are Uncle Sam only. Again, we are only talking military stuff with this.

As far as commercial products, catalogs and such would probably be as easy to use as this guy's CD. You can probably get hands on most commercial equipment by inquiring at local businesses who deal in the stuff. The new thing in the blasting world is MDI stuff - learn it and the charges themselves and you're covered. If you're concerned about coming across OLD stuff - well, hope the stuff is labeled and if it has leaked nitroglycerin, be sure to walk gently and save your smoke break till later.

In terms of ID'ing the kind of stuff a terrorist may use - the explosive material itself has been INSIDE every IED I have been shown (which admittedly is not many). The standard EOD response if you see something that looks fishy is "call the EOD guys" - thats why they have things like X-rays and such. I'm not sure what good seeing the explosive would do for you, anyway.

There are numerous grizzled old senior techs on this board, so they may be able to help you out much better than I. I am just suffering from a bout of insomnia and have nothing better to do.

[TC464]

TM 9-1385-211, EOD Information for Solid and Liquid Propellants, Conventional Explosives, and Other Dangerous Materials. No pictures in that one, but good info on explosives, propellants, etc. It's an old pub (1969).

TM 9-1300-214, Military Explosives. Very heavy on the chemistry and manufacturing process, but still has nuggets in there, such as appearance, toxic properties.

If you get that Pickett book, let me know what you think of it.

[Huey One Four]

Maybe give DSS at State a call. I had a killer (no pun intended) lesson on IEDs by them. It was the most interesting thing I did there.


"Let the EODs handle it"

Great advice. I followed this at the Embassy and caused a $50000 callout :D

[Bohr Adam]

Originally posted by Huey One Four
Maybe give DSS at State a call. I had a killer (no pun intended) lesson on IEDs by them. It was the most interesting thing I did there.


"Let the EODs handle it"

Great advice. I followed this at the Embassy and caused a $50000 callout :D

Good training. What did it end up being, a box of clothes :cool: ?

If the EOD tech can't rule out by just looking at it that it IS NOT a hazard - how were you supposed to?

My "spend the taxpayer's money" peak was about 5 years ago when I fired off two PATRIOT missiles at a drone. We never did much live fire due to the expense - so it was a rare opportunity. At US$1.2mil per, I caused US$2.4 million to blow up within seconds.

[DCSO]

Actually , given our location the chances of finding anything other than a pipe bomb are very slim. This would be more for my own interest. Believe you me, if I spot anything that I suspect, EOD will be enroute. IED's can be anything in the imagination, so you just have to be smart enough to not touch anything.

That Pickett book is only $20, so I might get it and see what it's all about. If I do, I'll post what it shows and talks about and let you guys draw your own opinions. I appreciate the help guys.

STAY SAFE

DCSO

[eodert]

Check ebay, search eod, explosive ordnance disposal, and bomb squad. Several venders have CD sets which carry a lot of the TM's dealing with explosives. The material covered is not restricted but content should be very helpful. The cost is usually around $10.

If you are looking for local WMD response I would suggest Janes Bio-Chem book. The cost is around $20. We keep them on our response trucks.

Lastly DCSO, PM me I know you are from NC, Im TDY this week but will be back to Bragg on Mon. We teach alot of classes to local PD's. Let me know and maybe we can set something up.
The NCBI also teachs a few classes on the above subject.

[eodert]

If you really are interested I would not limit my scope of knowledge to IED's, since you are in NC I would tyr to become familar with the basic military munitions. We respond all over the state to found military stuff.

Just a thought

[ExSquid]

If you are looking to identify munitions try ORDATA Online at www.maic.jmu.edu/ordata/Mission.asp.

D/S

[Huey One Four]

It was an envelope that was adressed, in crappy handwriting, to Ambassador Swindells, New Zealand Defence Force.

Calling the US Ambassador the head of NZ Defence Forces was a bad start for the envelope.

So I chucked it in the xray. The xray showed what appeared to be 2x battery sources and some wires. I couldn't see a detonater nor an explosive in there, but this is with hindsight, as I hadn't done the training yet.

This was my thought process:

Wires?.......Batterys?............OH FUCK ME! CALL THE RSO!

So the Army guys arrived, got the robot out (damn its cool :D), and hit the fucker with the water cannon.

It turned out to be an inviation for an airshow. It was the Gold Passes for the show, and the "batteries" turned out to be butterfly clips. The "wires" were the string which the passes were on. It turns out the string had some kind of metallic shit in it, which is why it came up on the xray so strongly. The EOD guys wern't sure what it was for awhile either, so they just decided to blow it up.


The motorway off ramp was closed at peak hour, police, fire and the army were called out, and I basicly shut down the city for an hour :)

[eodert]

friendly advise from an eod tech.... you did the RIGHT thing, if any other non eod types read Huey One Fours response he did the right thing. If in doubt call EOD !!!!!!!!!

Two thumbs up Huey One Four

[EODDVR]

I had a one way conversation with an O-6 during a call that in the end did turn out to be nothing.

"You're holding up the whole Navy! I got 17 busloads of sailors who need to return from liberty."

What I said, "Yes sir."

What I thought, "You (i.e. the base)... called me. And by the way, if I was Seamen Schmotz, I'da called me too!"

"What about the EOD officer from George Washington have you contacted him!"

What I said, "Uh, yes sir. He's right here with me."

What I thought, "Yea his happy ass was right next to me on the beach when you knuckleheads called, except he's been drinking!"

As usual it was road flares and an alarm clock, bowling ball candle, etc.

[Huey One Four]

Thanks mate. :)

I did nearly shit myself in the process though!

[jw]

EODDVR,

I can name that incident in for sentences!

The infamous UBL bus driver incident.

[EODDVR]

JW,

Were you with us then? Or did word of this spread back to SIG? If memory serves it was Mike G that searched the bus with me...didn't he relieve you?

I remember afterward talking to our favorite bald-headed chief.

"Did I do the right thing chief?"

"Hell yeah sir."

....we ended up getting a message of thanks from the CVN. So much for holding up the whole Navy!

STAY SAFE!