contract jumping

[Cochise]

I dont know if this is the right forum or not, just trying to get a feel of the general populace on the subject.

I know I am guilty of it myself, I was on 3 contracts in Iraq(SAIC, Vinnell and Cochise) before I was ordered home by the CSM (wife)

I hired a lot of guys as "in country" hires while over there. Some are still with our company. Some jumped the fence to BW and have either returned to us, or are waiting to be able to return. We have had a few leave for TC...all far in money and war.

Some of these guys want to come back. I get the feeling they think the grass is always greener on the otherside, you just dont know what kind of fertilizer they use to keep it green until you get there.

Sitting in the position I am now, it seems that we are often robbing Peter to Pay Paul. So my real question is. Should the State Department step in and try to regulate this contract jumping procedure to curb millions of dollars of revenue.

If its allowed on the boards I am really trying to get a decent discussion going on the subject. Everyone who has been a contractor over there knows this is going on daily. One team is always trying to recruit for more bodies on the ground. I know Cochise has almost completly stopped hiring in country guys until they come back to the states and enter our little process.

Thoughts please

[Polypro]

Well look-e who's here:) Nice sig line! Remember the "how many thousands of kilometers" one? LOL! Sorry to hijack, I'll leave this discussion to the guys that have been PM's over there. Russ?, Finger?

P

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Cochise
Everyone who has been a contractor over there knows this is going on daily. One team is always trying to recruit for more bodies on the ground.

It's not just 'over there' where this goes on. Its endemic to govt contracting across the industry. Why do you think the govt should step in? How would this regulation help them?

[Cochise]

I had heard discussion of this back when the CPA was in full swing. Some companies couldnt compete with the $1,000 a day contracts. Most of those went away a long time ago.

A little regulation that at the minimum required an individual to return stateside before starting another contract might help, because it is a pain in the arse to go back and forth..

Whats up Poly, keep in touch.

[Xdeth]

State Department has been regulating this through a blacklist, on the contracts they have. Should they be allowed to control the entire market even outside of their own contracts, absolutely not. Due-diligence on the part of the employer should determine to the employer's satisfaction how and why the subject left their last job. There are just too many variables to make a blanket policy like the government does, it's the difference between being viewed as a professional vs. a commodity.

[zdfg]

This is how it has been explained to me. At least THIS angle of it.

It depends on which contracts you're on now. Especially in Iraq under DoS. DoS is now officially maintaining a blackball list of contractors who do not meet the agreements of their contracts under DoS control. If an IC quits a DoS contract they will blacklist that person from returning to not only that country, which requires a country clearance, but ANY country that DoS has auspices over. So for example if a guy went to work for Dyn and quits before his 6 month rotation is over, then he would most likely be barred not only for working for Dyn again in country, but would be ineligable to return on a commercial contract because getting into country requires a clearance blessed off by the powers that be.

Under those terms no one will be allowed to jump contract anymore. Even if the IC completes their rotation, they will still have to leave country before returning with their new respective employer. I have an example in which I fired a guy from a detail, he was transferred to a fixed post, fired from the fixed post and the company and then jumped ship for more money to a another outfit in country. This lasted all of about 3 days for him before state came crashing down around his head and sent him packing never to return.

Of course under commercial contracts this only applies in the first scenario.

To answer your question directly. I think that IC work needs to be cleaned up quite a bit. On one hand it's a business and both the employer and the employee have options. You have to do what's best for you. Therefore if an IC wants to walk because he has a better deal somewhere else then it's hard to fault them. Likewise an employer can simply send a guy packing with no notice. That's the game.

However, I tend to see all this in terms of; this is how I am able to contribute to the war effort, and support my country. Cohesiveness is built through loyalty and longevity. Unless the IC has seriously FUBAR'd or the Contractor has screwed the IC then I think loyalty should be in order. Jumping ship in order to improve one's position once or twice can be understood. As a constant pattern should be suspect.

Anyway I'll shut up now.

ZDFG

[RangerRuss]

Originally posted by Cochise
Should the State Department step in and try to regulate this contract jumping procedure to curb millions of dollars of revenue.

Steve, I'm naturally suspicious when I hear DoS is going to fix something by instituting new regulations. Ancient bias. And that old habit dies hard.

My thought when I was CM was that if a guy got a better deal somewhere else, go. I don't want anyone on my team that doesn't want to be there. Don't want 'em looking for friendly faces to go to work for; want 'em looking for enemy faces to shoot. So a happy worker is a better worker. I tried to keep up as best I could w/salaries and other bennies, but if someone waved more greenbacks in front of their face, I was always there to shake their hand and wish 'em well.

Only once did I call the "hiring" company and drop a dime on one of my contract jumpers, but that's cuz he tried to ratfuck me out of some gear. I got my gear back and he got a ticket home. But I think cooperation should be handled on an informal basis, and not at the whims of DoS. Any blacklist should be informal. I could always pick up the phone and call the other CMs/PMs to hear the latest. And I trust my peers more than I do da gubbamint.

We've all done boneheaded shit in our day, and either by the grace of God or a kick in the ass from a platoon sergeant we learned and moved on. So I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the guys on the ground, not the beancounters at State, and hope that the guys get tired of hopping around from contract to contract. Once they've been on a few, they tend to settle down anyway. So I don't think this should be turned into a federal case.
Russ

[Cochise]

I agree, to much governemnt is not a good thing. Some good responces to reply to here.

I also heard at one time that the security contractors were going to try and establish some sort of black list. Just to keep eachother in check.

An informal check to keep me from hiring a shit bag that just got fired from another company.

Even a board like this would help, so all the companies could register and add input. Hell there might be one already.

Good forum to share TTP's and intel as well.

I just hate a guy leaving, then 2 months later coming back to us, becuase he gets fed por information just so another PM can put warm bodies on the ground

[RangerRuss]

Originally posted by Cochise
I just hate a guy leaving, then 2 months later coming back to us, becuase he gets fed por information just so another PM can put warm bodies on the ground

That's when we do the peer pressure thing, Steve. Pull him off to the side and have a heart-to-heart. We all understand the pressures behind meeting the terms of a new contract and having to jump thru our ass to make things happen. So perhaps it could be excused once as poor taste. But just as zdfg said in here earlier, the word gets around when the shooters start jumping contracts, so the same should apply if the PMs and CMs do it, too. If a company really and truly has a better opportunity for one of my guys, then I'll wish 'em well and congratulate the CM/PM on a clean steal. But if another company's head shed is putting out bad poop just to attract flies to their bullshit, then it's time to go to the mattresses...

I know when I was there this summer that we started an informal kinda thing among BW, 3CGI, Armor Group, and MVM that we wouldn't do any in-country hires for any of each other's people until we'd talked to their original company about it. And it seemed to work. So I much prefer an ad hoc approach like that than something that the freaking Staties would dream up...

[Cochise]

I definatly agree that the ad hoc thing would work better. Some guys are looking for different things. Some guys like PSD rather than fixed site security, so why keep them miserable.

I have had many of those heart to hearts over there, trying to shake some sence into him. Sometimes its better just to shake his hand and wish him luck.

I hated seeing some guys go, like back in febuary I think, and 2 weeks later the ended up on the bridge in Falluja with BW(God rest there souls) Had they stayed it could have been a different ending for them.

Not that them leaving had anyhting to do with it, fate is fate.

Thanks for the points and info

[SOTB]

Here is a classic example of where the govt wants to step in and redefine "capitalism".

Contracts hard to keep staffed? Then it looks like DOS needs to back off and either allow the price to meet the demand/supply issue or suffer when good guys decide that the crap and money aren't worth the hassle.

Also, money isn't the only reason someone would leave a company. What about finding out that your govt approved boss was an assclown? And that your survival odds were directly related to the amount of booze he consumed the evening before? The answer is to blacklist the guy if he jumps to a safer gig?

The govt will surely step in on this, if for no other reason than the costs are something they are beginning to (or have been) whining about. So, the idea of letting this work itself out via supply and demand won't be allowed to function. Of course you will continue to have good guys over there, but you'll also have less good guys willing to go do this stuff. Not that working outside the US is "hard", but when you do it in certain climes and places, the job does require more "effort".

Well, whatever. I'm sure DOS has it all figured out and knows just what caliber of person they need....

[Cochise]

I like the supply and demand theory, and let the prices go to those earning their positions, but with such high demand, on an unaccountable scale, how far will it go.

Someone will step in, eventually Iraq duties will be the same price as Kuwait or Saudi or other shitty countries. So I can see why qualified guys jump to the most lucrative contracts quickly.

There might be 2 years of this, and this is the first it has ever happened on this scale. I would like to see it go on for a long while, but fear some form of regultion will step in.

[ODA 564]

As an evil contractor myself I always tell guys "work for whom ever you'd want to work for."

Supply and demand drives the train. The problem is that quite often each agencies contracting office is in a vacuum and that contract (and the awarded vendor's bid) stand alone in a field of other stand alones.

Three contracts for the same work issued over three months, three different agencies, three different awarded vendors. three different awarded values. Company 1 pays $75K a year, Company 2 pays $90K a year and Company 3 pays $100K. Who do you want to work for? So guys working for Company 1 quit and go to Company 2 then quit and go to Company 3.

Then add the "kewl kompany" factor (and I ain't good enough, despite having won $13 MILLION in work this year, etc. because I ain't "kewl", but that's fine).

Now some may take offense to this... if so, I'm just calling it like I see it.

The initial "kewl kompany" (Company 1) wins a lot of work, out grows its gene pool of HSLD BTDTs and starts hiring "lesser" guys - then the HSLD BTDT guys move on to Company 2; then the process repeats itself. I think its called the unintended consequence of unanticipated success. As you get bigger, you lose the select nature you started with.

That's enough for now.

[SOTB]

Originally posted by ODA 564 The initial "kewl kompany" (Company 1) wins a lot of work, out grows its gene pool of HSLD BTDTs and starts hiring "lesser" guys - then the HSLD BTDT guys move on to Company 2; then the process repeats itself. I think its called the unintended consequence of unanticipated success. As you get bigger, you lose the select nature you started with.Good point. And this has VERY much happened in the sandbox of OIF.

How many of you guys went to "X" contract and found that your compatriots had "inflated" their resumes a tad? Or where simply the company hired people who aren't the right guys, who survive the attrition through quittings/firings/dyings/etc., and are then promoted to leadership positions? Lots of fun working for that guy, huh?

I do agree that the costs have skyrocketed, but then so have the attacks. Some of this is due directly to the skill level of those working the contracts. Some of it is due directly to the inability (or political management) of the Coalition to deal with the numbers of badguys and their almost (at times) incredible ease of operating in the contractor's AO. Bottom line is that people aren't going to want to work in hostile locales on the cheap. Some guys (no offense intended) without much experience will look at the current prices and jump at the chance. Guys who might have other options, and more experience, might just move down the road and work THAT price in a more relaxed environment. That kinda serves that whole vicious cycle of assclowns dominating the airwaves when you hear about contractors in OIF. IMO....

[ExSquid]

I have to agree with those who think DOS should stay out of the loop. Governement regulations to "make life fair" is what every bleeding heart liberal in America is all about. My personal belief is that if you are bailing on a contract just because you can make more money someplace else, than you are suffering from a lack of professionalism. You signed the dotted line, live up to your promise and then skip to the next company next time. You live you learn. If you are leaving because you are working with a bunch of yahoos that could get you killed, than bail because your company is not living up to their end of the bargain. As for PMs poaching other companies employees, it is like banging somebody elses wife and than marrying her after she leaves her old man. She cheated on the first guy, what makes you think she will not cheat on you? Course, I have never been under the gun to put bodies in to billets.

D/S

[Cochise]

I guess bottom line, it is a Dog eat Dog world out there. I know for the most part everyone wants to get there money bucket filled, and they want to do it before the bullshit bucket gets filled.

Some of the companies are so "fly by night" that no matter how much money you make, it does you no good if your dead.

I am also reading there is a significant rise in Blue on Blue incidents between companies. The last thing I want is to be engaged by a vehicle with one American, a Brit and 3 Locals with AK's and Pk's.

For this reason alone the community needs to come together to enhance communications and break the language barrier. If we dont do it, the DOS will fix it for us.

[Cochise]

Couldn't agree with you more squid, I like your analogy as well. It has been my experience than an in country hire will not last with one company long, thats why we have stopped the procedure.

[Type-82]

What I find amazing is how DoS can place itself into a restraint of trade situation. For instance, My first contract in Iraq stated in black and white either the company or the contractor could end the relationship at any time.

When certain people left the company and the company tried to cry to State and have them ejected, the contractor showed the RSO a copy of the contract and asked how he could be considered jumping a contract where it clearly states he has the option to end the contract at will (just as the company has the option to end it at will).

The next contract had a provision requiring 2 weeks notice before leaving. A very reasonable and understandable provision which I had no problem with. With the "Contract Jumping" problem and State Department deporting people at their whim with no supervision, it ammounts to contractor slavery. FZor instance, you sign a contract in good faith expecting to do PSD work in area A for $xxx.xx a day. When you show up your doing Convoy security between area B and C. Of course all contracts are hugely vague about what is required, but bottom line is you were not hired on to do convoy security. So if you "Jump Contract" to another company doing PSD in area A for amount $xxx.xx The company can have you deported. ie Slavery.

The State Department has a hard enough time trying to do what they already have on their plate, lets not allow them to work their way into the private sector of security work. Basicly the DOS sucks!

[SOTB]

Originally posted by Type-82 The State Department has a hard enough time trying to do what they already have on their plate, lets not allow them to work their way into the private sector of security work....I'm torn of whether this is a problem that State wants to try and fix due to missions being unfullfilled OR if there is just a little too much focus on the economics of the issue (with also a little jealousy on the part of "some" DOS neverbes).

State has enough of a hard time getting their own job done with the recruitment of qualified and able people in their org. Its almost laughable that DOS would have the ability to even comment on the topic of employment of professionals in this field (security).

I DO support ENTIRELY the idea that those jobs that DOS lets out bids on, DOS has the right to stipulate whether they want X person to work there, and for what price. In this case they are the client, and as such have certain rights. For them to put their noses in on other security contracts is -- as stated before -- laughable....

[Cochise]

nice post above. I had not looked at it like contract slavery before. I knw my companies contract spells out all the specific jobs, so they know what they are getting into first.
We do require a 2 week notice as well.

I have had a few of my guys getting the hard recruit sell in country while visiting some of the bigger bases over there, like Mosul. I think some post people out at those areas and wait for security personnel to show up at the Px. Kind of desperate to me.

[rablao]

I second the DoS suckage. DoS is trying very hard to “comb” our current ranks through stupid and foolish weapon stipulations, ROEs, and grooming standards (which is the only one I understand). They have made idle threats to us if any “contract jumping” occurs – we will be blackballed. Now whether that hold true is yet to be seen. I do know a few guys that have successfully jumped to other contracts. I also know a few guys whom cut-out of their contracts a little early with hopes of return with no joy.

Several of the 6 month DoS contracts here are almost due and several men do not plan to return. There will be quite an exodus of experience going out of our doors heading to other more lucrative companies. Can you blame them? Not really.

[Olive Drab]

Originally posted by rablao
I second the DoS suckage. DoS is trying very hard to “comb” our current ranks through stupid and foolish weapon stipulations, ROEs, and grooming standards (which is the only one I understand).
What exactly are the grooming standards? I see guys from BW all day long who look like they are Amish.

[Cochise]

Grooming standards will be the next thing the DOS enforces. Its proven that you cant be a good shooter without facial hair.

Not really but with a lot of those jobs its all about appearance and not performance. I feel thats the retired officer mentality slipping in.

The gig was fun, when the contracts were young. Now there is tons of politics added to the jobs.

[Miguel]

Here is my 2 cents for what it is worth: (Which is probably about 1.99 cents)

I am on my 1st contract and certainly do not claim to be a been there done that kinda of guy. But I am certainly not a 1st enlistment and out to the contracting world either.

Concerning jumping contracts: The only way I can even see this as an honorable option is if 1) You end up doing something that is 180 degrees away from what was expressed up front, ie. being promised in writing you are going to be doing PSD and end up with a fixed site gig, convoy security or vice versa. 2) The on site management is asking you to do things that are suicidal without proper support. 3) They do not meet two paydays in a row.

In the detail I was on, and I was there for the begininng,I saw people come in later who didn't deal with half the shit the original guys did and tried to jump ship to other companies for an extra $50 bucks a day with twice the risk and half the support. Granted they were being kind of ostrisized out by peer pressure because they proved to be idiots, and we were happy to see them go.

All of them eventually were denied by their new company from DoS pressure (they were on an original DoS contract).

I do not have a big resentment for DoS. The real enemy is DSS. The DSS in Baghdad is nothing but the most kindergarten bunch of imature people I have ever encountered in what I had expected to be a professional atmosphere. THE EXCEPTION BEING WITH DSS WAS WORKING WITH THE MSD guys.

90% of those guys were at least realist.

The ARSO's of the RSO shop of the DSS proved to be a bunch of bullied kids that grew up to be second rate federal agents, who think people look up to them because they have a badge. The junior ARSO's proved to be insecure little boys who couldn't stand to be around guys who knew what they were doing and didn't have a problem doing it.

All in all, my feeling on contract jumping is that if you are doing it for a few extra bucks because your buddy has a better deal than you, well he was smarter than you or at least had better timing, suck it up and live up to your comitment. Then see if the grass is greener.

As for the whole grooming standard thing and all of the other DoS rules that are in the making: As a team leader I used to tell my guys that, the reason all of you were hired was because you had proved that you could live your life and perform under military standards. In an embassy environment I certainly didn't think it was to much to ask that they maintained at least professional grooming standards, ie.. don't look like grizzly adams. We all know that hair length does not have a correlation to protective skills but giving your principle the initial warm and fuzzy goes a long way to starting a professional relationship and goes along way in building trust.

After all, when your in an environment where your principles also see you on your libo time around the pool, for gods sake it isn't to much to ask to at least look and act like a professional.

[Miguel]

The above post does not in any way refer to Jcolletteusa.

Love you Bro.

[RangerRuss]

Originally posted by Miguel
The above post does not in any way refer to Jcolletteusa.


Definitely not. One of the good uns...

[doitforjonny]

i think there is a different way to look at this issue. state regulation is natural for any contract that involves working FOR state. how can you not expect them to get irritated when they have companies having issues meeting quotas for bodies on the deck because of individuals jumping contract? they could give two shits whether or not the PM or other in country management for one company is better or worse than another companies.

all they see are numbers, like any good govt organization, and as long as numbers are being met well then all is right in the world. from their view any activity or disturbance in the executuion of these contracts they have awarded between x number of companies that is causing trouble to the smooth operation of their duties as diplomats, they will use their full power to fix the perceived problem whether the contractors like it or not, because in the end the contractors will lose because there is a near infinite pool of bodies willing to come out here, limited only by states willingness to sacrifice quality.

i think the major bitch in state regulation should be when the situation starts to involve commercial non-state contracts. state wants control of all american contractors in country, as they ARE american ex military for the most part, and as such whether they like it or not they represent in some way america internationally.(in some manner similar to the lance coolie in oki raping a girl being a direct representative of the U.S.). i think the issue is what kind of control can state exercise over its citizens abroad? other embassies the world over issue warnings and recommendations concerning their citizens travel except in countries involved in disputes. as there is currently a "dispute" of some magnitude ongoing in iraq, what exactly is states power over us? how can they kick out contractors by virtue of their work history in country but allow altruists living in the red zone working on cell phone start up companies?(sarcastic)

now whether this should be allowed under a free market capitalist system? that is another question. if a contractor working on a state contract decides that it is in his own best interest (survivability, pay, quality of life, any other legitimate issue) to leave the contract he is on and go to a commercial contract, what should state have to say about it? not a fucking thing in my opinion. free market. if state wants to keep quality people around and not dig in to that near infinite pool of unqualified willing "bodies", they should then notice the exodus of experience and quality and fix the situation.if they are not worried about it they can easily drop their standards in direct relation to the amount of bodies they need. they can also keep said contractor from going to work for another company on a different STATE contract, as was mentioned earlier, that being a natural action for them to enforce.

what they should NOT do is bar said contractor from the country in a punitive manner for moving on to a better opportunity. this somewhat akin to leaving a job in washington state govt for whatever reason and having the employer (washington state) have the power to tell you to leave the state, as you are no longer allowed to work there. what THE fuck?

i think what needs to happen, and what is happening as more and more, international security contracting is coming in to the spotlight, is a specification of exactly WHAT our status is. are we directly controlled by the american govt by virtue of the training they gave us? or are we self employed businessmen (or small companies), free citizens CAPITALIZING on a niche market. also take into acount how other contractors from other countries are regulated. i think the standardization needed is not so much specific contract to contract, employer to employer. it is the standardization that any fledgling cottage industry goes through, and the individual contractor is now at the mercy of the larger players getting involved trying to cover their own needs(ie state).

until there is specified exactly what the rules are, i think regulation will be up to the community, navigating whatever boulders state, as the bully on the playground, decides to cast in the river along the way.

[RangerRuss]

Originally posted by doitforjonny
...like any good govt organization...

excellent post, jonny, but i had to chuckle when i read that line above... :cool:

[Stanley_White]

I think this will eventually turn into a golden rule scenario. "He who has the gold makes the rules."

In this case the DoS has the gold and if you want some of it you will have to do what they say even if it doesn't seem to make sense i.e. grooming standards or whatever.

Also like it or not IMHO there is virtually an unlimited supply of people willing to do whatever they need to do to get a job working a security contract in Iraq.

Note I didn't say unlimited supply of qualified people. I simply said the number of people globally with the desire to go far outweighs the number of contracts currently available.

So if you turn down a contract due to requirements that you think to be unreasonable I bet there is someone behind you in line willing to have a high and tight and a close shave as long as he gets a shot at the gold.

[Ace]

And when the principle and the teams starts getting hit on a regular basis (and losing), DOS will still come up with a reason for the failure, as long as the finger gets pointed outward and not towards DOS, which is typical.

[PSYWAR 1-0]

DoS seems to be in the contract interferance business these days, and are imune to any recourse.

Yes Im bitter.

[rablao]

I second that!

[Stanley_White]

Originally posted by PSYWAR 1-0
DoS seems to be in the contract interferance business these days, and are imune to any recourse.

Yes Im bitter.

You also have to look at this factor:

Urgency of need = Less worry about the details

More stable situation = More worry the about details

My example...

When DoS just wanted folks on the ground as quick as possible I am sure they didn't care too much about certain factors such as grooming / appearance etc because without the necessary security they couldn't stand up the AMEMB in the first place.

Now that things are a bit more established they have more time to focus on the small stuff and right or wrong they are going to do so.

[RAT]

Originally posted by charliemike60
Employer-Employee is a pretty simple concept, yet I continuously meet ICs out here who believe their resumes give them inherent rights to dictate how that relationship will be carried out. I anticipate that this continuous tirade for more pay and less rules will drive reasonable clients away from doing business here. 17 countries are standing by waiting to do this work for less, and the move is on to get them in. Gents, unless the community tightens up, man up or whatever you want to call it, the feed will be over and you will subsist on your local economy. Food for thought. Semper Fi CM60

CM,
I would not think that there would be many jobs over there after the elections. I could be wrong and most likely will.

The reporters are now getting on the band wagon about PMC running around with out any rules. I just saw this on MSNBC.

Should be intersting to see what is going to hapen in the next few months.

RAT OUT!!!

[Silverbullet]

Originally posted by RAT
CM,
I would not think that there would be many jobs over there after the elections. I could be wrong and most likely will.

The reporters are now getting on the band wagon about PMC running around with out any rules. I just saw this on MSNBC.

Should be intersting to see what is going to hapen in the next few months.

RAT OUT!!!

My brother,
I disagree. I think there will still be many jobs, but they will be consolidated into fewer company's vice the mass of company's over there now.

Also, State is upset that so many qualified people are working for other company's vice for one of their subs. They used to have to turn people away for the WPPS. Now they are beating the bushes for bodies. It all started with the mass defection from the Kharzi detail.

I say honor your contract, unless lied to, and then check out other pastures.

Supply and demand....

Out

[RAT]

SB,

You would know better than I.

RAT OUT!!!

[Massgrunt]

What opportunities do you guys see coming post Iraq? An expansion of these types of jobs now that the concept has been proven, or an extremely limited field with a lot of guys trying to get a foot hold? Somewhere in between?

[Cochise]

I have the answers, will post later with more time.....jobs will be plentifull in my scenario as well

[RAT]

Did anyone catch CONTRACTING Corp. They were in charge of the rebuilding of roads in Iraq. They just gave up all contracts. Said security costs were to much.

I'll try and find the art.

RAT OUT!!!

[Xdeth]

Originally posted by RAT
Did anyone catch CONTRACTING Corp. They were in charge of the rebuilding of roads in Iraq. They just gave up all contracts. Said security costs were to much.

I'll try and find the art.

RAT OUT!!!

I had a long rant prepared about the non-US Govt "clients", you know, those patriots building 20X overpriced computer networks and sending consultants (palace whores) to wrangle more "rebuilding" funds from the US taxpayers, but I said fuck it. :)

They are probably waiting on the folks CM60 was mentioning, folks that would otherwise be making tin AK's in some third world shithole for ten cents a day. Then they can re-build the roads :rolleyes:

[ExSquid]

Why work WPPS when other contracts pay more, are shorter in duration, and are less nit picky. Supply and demand works both ways. Eventually more and more companies (privates and NGOs) will be using TCNs for security because it is cheaper, but the US Gov contracts require US citizens and that is not likely to change. The reputable companies in the industry work in places other than just Iraq & Afghanistan and will continue to do so after this glut of work thins out. The old hands will still be around, some new blood will stick with it, and a lot of guys who jumped in for some quick cash will go back to more "normal" pursuits. Nothing last forever, so prepare for your future, and do not shit where you eat.

D/S

[RAT]

Originally posted by DisgruntledSquid
do not shit where you eat.

D/S

Best said so far...

RAT OUT!!!

[Silverbullet]

Originally posted by DisgruntledSquid
Why work WPPS when other contracts pay more, are shorter in duration, and are less nit picky. Supply and demand works both ways. Eventually more and more companies (privates and NGOs) will be using TCNs for security because it is cheaper, but the US Gov contracts require US citizens and that is not likely to change. The reputable companies in the industry work in places other than just Iraq & Afghanistan and will continue to do so after this glut of work thins out. The old hands will still be around, some new blood will stick with it, and a lot of guys who jumped in for some quick cash will go back to more "normal" pursuits. Nothing last forever, so prepare for your future, and do not shit where you eat.

D/S

Good post!

Merry Christmas.

[Regulator3]

You always did have a way with words D/S -- good post.