GSG9 to Philipines?

[paul]

I read that a group of SF unit will be sent by German authorities in an attempt to rescue hostages held in Jolo. Could the unit be GSG9? Any info about that?

[JS]

According to Specialoperations.com the GSG9 acts only in domestic matters. I would guess the KSK or something like that.

[huey14]

whats the ksk?

[Mike]

KSK is the new German special operations forces.
GSG-9 sometimes have people serving as bodyguard to German ambassadors in high-risk area (Lebanon, El Salvador). Oh, imagine the German consul in NYC having a bodyguard, hehe.

[huey14]

so KSK is military, while gsg-9 is police right?

[Basti]

The KSK is the "Kommando Spezialkräfte" the new Germen Special Force. If a special unit is send to the Philippins then it is the KSK.
The GSG 9 is only for operations in Germany. It is the special unit of the border police (Bundesgrenzschutz).

[dirk]

that´s right, but some people demanded that some GSG 9 advisors should be sent to the Phillipines, to support the local authorities who negotiate with the "terrorists".

[This message has been edited by dirk (edited 06-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by dirk (edited 06-10-2000).]

[huey14]

cheers, thats cleared it right up

[jeff]

Don't forget that GSG9 deployed to Mogidishu to retrieve some hostages a couple years back. So they are not strictly for internal security.

[Basti]

That was an exception. Normanlly the GSG 9 is only for operations in Germany. Now we have the KSK doing operations in other countries.

[rapid fire]

It was not an exception that GSG9 was deployed in Mogadischu. Before the KSK was built up (i think in 1998), the GSG9 was the only unit in Germany able and allowed to do operations in foreign countries. Today, Germany has got a well- trained military special force and so there's no need for GSG9 to act outside Germany.

[Basti]

The KSK was built up 1995. They are now nearly ready trained. And it was an exception that the GSG 9 did operate in another country. Believe me, I´m from Germany and we have a law that says that the GSG 9 is only available for operations inside Germany. If it wouldn´t be like that, we would not have asked Belgium to save the german hostages of the New Wave movement in Africa in the early 90´s.

[Basti]

Sorry, that I post again, but I forgot something in the post before: It was a belgish parachute team.

[tanglimara]

In my opinion it is not advisable to have any
foreign SOF units to try to rescue the hostages,be it the Malaysians,the Germans or
the French.I don't think you can rescue them without endangering the lives of the hostages.In this case the risks are just too high.Unless all other means fail,any attempts
to rescue the hostages should not be considered.

[WS-G]

Basti wrote:
The KSK is the "Kommando Spezialkräfte" the new Germen [sic] Special Force
Are you certain of this? The German Navy's Kampfschwimmerkompanie is also refered to as "KSK", and has been around since 1957.

jeff:

I presume... Don't forget that GSG9 deployed to Mogidishu to retrieve some hostages a couple years back....was meant facetiously, ja? If the op to which you refer was the assault on the hijacked Lufthansa transport, that took place in 1977.

------------------
ex Co. G (-)(Abn/Rgr), 143d INF(LRRP), TXARNG 1981-1985
ex 433MAW (AFRES), 1985-1991
FAA-certificated pilot and Advanced Ground Instructor

[This message has been edited by William M Salter (edited 07-24-2000).]

[XS]

There are now two KSK's, Army and Navy.

------------------
"I am going to eat your children. Praise be to Allah."

Mike Tyson

[jeff]

Yes the "few years back" was ment jokingly. I'm pretty sure that the fellows in Eckenforde(Kampfschwimmers) and the KSK are different units altogher. Similar to the US SF and Navy SEAL relationship. Next time i run into one of the KSK guys i'm going to ask. Are any on this net?
Tschus,
Jeff

[Daredevil]

I think the KSK is more like Delta than SF.

[hunter]

I will explain it to you:
"KSK" is the abreviation for "Kommando Spezialkraefte" and not for "Kampfschwimmerkompanie". The "Kampfschwimmerkompanie", the German SEAL team, is independant from the KSK.
The combat divers, which serve in the KSK, do no longer belong to the "Kampfschwimmerkompanie". It is very difficult to say what are the tasks of this two units, because they are mixing up. Generally, you can say, that the KSK is for operations like hostage rescue (JOLO!) or reconnaissance issues. The combat divers are also for spec ops, but only in areas near the sea or rivers (like US SEAL). In the near future, I believe, the combat diver unit will be dissolved and the soldiers will become members of KSK, which is similar to the Rangers.

[jeff]

Hunter,
You seemed to know alittle about this topic. I think that drawing the analogy between the KSK and US Rangers is a bit off target though. The KSK is more along the lines of a SEAL platoon in orgization, 14-16 guys. A Ranger platoon is 45-50 guys. I will probably see one of the KSK guys next week, he is going to Ranger school with one of our guys, i'll ask him.

[Mike]

A good article on the the Kampfschwimmer (KSK) is Soldier of Fortune of June 1994,
"GERMANY: Death from the deep-Germany's killer SEALs"

[Mike]

Kommando Spezialkraefte (KSK)

OVERVIEW

In 1994, Germany formed a new Special Forces Group, the KSK, to perform a range of military missions in enemy rear areas or in trouble spots abroad. Although unit missions include operating against targets such as line of communications or enemy HQs and long range recon, particulae emphasis is being placed on ensuring the safety of German citizens in war or conflict zones, eveacuating noncombatants, and resquing hostages or downed pilots. Approximately 20 soldiers have been trained by the fall of 1996, and the unit was fully operational by April 1997. According to reports, the imetus for forming the force was the German experience during the Rwandan Civil War in 1994. During that conflict, Begain and French Paratroopers were used to resque 11 German nationals because no suitably trained German troops were available. The KSK emphasizes the usual tough selection criteria and lengthy, thorough training associated with special operation units. The KSK commander, a brigadier, has emphasized the need for mature, reliable soldiers to man the unit. Despite the units hostage-resque capabilities, reports stress that the KSK is a military unit with military missions, not another GSG-9 counterterrorist force. KSK does, however, maintain a
hostage Resque Team capable of resolving a variety of associated tasks.

The bulk of the unit was formed on 1 April 1996 when the Commando Company of each of the three Airborne Brigades were taken along with two of the long-Range Recce Companys(the 3rd disbanded) were combined under one command forming the KSK (no comments on 1 April, Jokers day and the SAS nick name the Jokers) The unit plans to be fully operational by the year 2000 and at that time of having 1000 operators fully trained and slotted.

The unit will be under the German Crisis Section, tasks include the following;

1) Defence of the territory of Germany or NATO

2) deterrence and de-escalation of crisis situations

3) Peace Keeping/peace support missions

This unit, being part of the Army, will be able to go overseas and on NATO deployments where GSG-9 could not (legally), though sometimes did (Lufthansa Airlines 737 hijacking Mogadishu Airport, October 1977 for example)and will also be used to protect and project German iterests worldwide.

basic missions of the SKS are very similar to the SAS/U.S. Special Forces to include stategic recce, deep penetration raids , and more common spec ops HRT, CT, DA ops.

KSK ORGANIZATION

HQ & Signal Company= 4 Commando Companies*

1 Longrange Recce Company+ 1 Support Company

1 Training Platoon

*Each Commando Company consists of the following;

HQ Platoon

4 commando Plts-Consisting of 4 teams of 4 men each. Of the 4 men there is to be 1 Communications specialist, 1 Explosives spec., 1 medical spec., last man not stated but if in line with other units 4th will be Operations and Intel trained Team Leader. 1 of the 4 Plts will be specially trained in HRT ops.

Commando Long-Range Recce Company;

HQ element

L-R Recce Commando Plt with 8 teams

L-R Recce Plt with 12 teams

Again all teams are 4 man units

BREAK DOWN OF THE ABOVE

1 HQs Plt

3 Signal Plts

1 L-R Recce Signals PLT(all trained in all versions of radio SAT, LASER, VHF,UHF,encrcypted)

Support Company

Logistics Plt

Parachute equipment Plt

Medic PLt

maintainance Plt

Selection process and basic training will be 3 months and a modified SAS/SF (Both US/UK involved in set up)

All to be HALO/HAHO and scuba trained. Specialist training to be completed before assignment to an operational team and supposed to last 3
years (reason for the year 2000 date)

EQUIPMENT

Basic German Infantry uniforms and LBE with the addition of the ever-present black nomex coveralls/balaclava and kevlar helmet.

WEAPONS

HK36 rifle, carbine, and SAW versions

HK MP5SD3 9mm

P8 Pistol (USP 9mm)

G22 Sniper Weapon System .300 Win Mag.(Accuracy International AW with folding stock and German Optics)

P11 underwater pistol (Kamp. swimmer training also)

HK21 LMG 5.56mm

HK23 LMG 7.62X51mm

MG3 GPM 7.62X51mm

Panzerfaust 3 and Milan A.T. weapons

trooper commo is a modified SEM52/SL helmet mounted with jawbone mike.

VEHICLES

Unimog 2 ton

Mercedes Benz G Wagen (popular with all spec ops units in NATO)

[Goldenkobra]

Originally posted by huey14:
so KSK is military, while gsg-9 is police right?

The GSG-9 can be compared to the FBI's HRT, while the KSK can be compared to the Delta Force