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AQUATEENHUNGERFORCE
5 March 2005, 17:52
Ive lurked for a year, didnt even sign up for the boards cause I just wanted to look and gain info. I signed up today so that I could use the search option on the board. Prior to that, I visually scanned every topic, and read most of them on this portion of this board. I wanted yall to know I exhausted my options before posting a new question. I did a search for TFT and Tim Larkin on here but came up empty.

1. Has anyone here had any of his personal instruction, if so - any opinions?

2. Anyone here gotten any of his dvd's, if so, any opinions?

If I somehow missed a thread/thereads mentioning larkin, I apologize for the ignorant post. In advance, thanks for the info.

fish78
5 March 2005, 19:32
Tim used to work for Jerry Peterson at SCARS, from what I have seen and read about his TFT program it is pretty much SCARS...despite what most will tell you, there is something of value there...but the price is way out of line...

Matchanu
5 March 2005, 20:18
Tim Larkin is a shitbag who failed out of BUD/S then tried to pass himself off as a Navy SEAL. He's a wannabe tough guy who liked to push his weight around. He was eventually smaked down and put in his place, his website no longer says he was "Navy SEAL tranied".

The Jerry Peterson SCARS course was utterly ridiculous. Full of fancy flying shit and "fingers of death". He was dropped from NSWC within a year and ended up peddling his training on 3 page ads in Soldoer of Fortune. His ads would say such shit like "litterally drowned Navy SEALs" etc..etc..."

Don't waste your time, there are better training programs out there.

chokeu2
6 March 2005, 15:25
SCARS was, and is UTTER GARBAGE! It was a marketing campaign built on false principles of reactivity. Somehow those guys apparently got in with the SEAL boys, and once that was done, it was pure marketing from there. SCARS is probably the most well known "art" that was taught to ELITESEALSPECIALFORCESRANGERRECON operators of the world. Then everyone else jumped on the bandwagon by saying that they taught ELITESEALSPECIALFORCESRANGERRECON operators of the world. Guys like this make the rest of us who train and teach feel dirty... Dirty dirty dirty... :eek:

There is nothing of value there. Dude, do not look to flashy ad's that claim to have trained the high speeds of the world. The good teachers ain't gonna brag about it because discretion got them the job in the first place, and on top of that there is a bit of the quiet professional mentality there too. If a "style" lays its credibility on who it has trained, then the strength of that "style" lies in its marketing campaign, not its actual training.

fish78
6 March 2005, 16:46
Tee Hee, I knew , I would be the only one to say anthing good about SCARS...it is way over priced, but there is some stuff there, if you look at it without bias that is quite good...Years ago, I actually went to one of the 3 day camps...no, It did not cost me 1000s of dollars...To try to say, its full of "flying shi" and fingers of death" is contrary to what was taught when I was there...the Reactive stuff is not nearly as prominent as you have been lead to believe...It reallis about GROSS MOTOR movements and is not at all by rote...what it is is really about mid level San Soo....Just hit it. Peterson adds some NLP to the mix and the socalled by rote long chains of moves are really just options...the entire premis is that the fight is ALREADY in progress and that you are likely to be fighting more than one guy...it really is not a "if he does this, you dou that...not at all.Actually it compliments WWII Combatives very well, if you understand each of them


With all of that being said, don't spend your money there or with Larkin...find a Judo club that teaches old judo or JuJitsu.


On a side note, I have no need for the competive MMAs, they are fine if commpetition is what you want to do, and they will make you a better fighter, but that does not suit MY needs...

chokeu2
7 March 2005, 00:43
I hear ya, and glad you got something out of it bro. But as for me, I do not view it with bias, I view it from a point of view of being around this stuff for 23 years. I actually had a positive outlook on it when it came out, and went to a "camp"/"Seminar thingy... No joy on effectiveness. Do not mistake the stuff you see in an MMA event for competitive use only either my friend. It is far from competition only. FAR from it.

From a physical training standpoint I do not have a bias on SCARS, I just don't buy it, thats the voice of experience. Now... From a professional standpoint, I DO have a bias against it because SCARS is the "program" that started all the other "be a one man killing machine", be all end all fighting styles out there. And to make it worse, it was the one that made attaching a SEAL, SF, Ranger type of cred to it. And in some cases simply because some guys showed up to train once or twice. That is where my bias on this issue comes from. I just do not find it effective otherwise.

The bottom line is that as long as you dig the training that you participating in, and it fills a spot for ya, cool. Thats what this kind of stuff is supposed to do.
Train on.

fish78
7 March 2005, 10:25
From a professional standpoint, I DO have a bias against it because SCARS is the "program" that started all the other "be a one man killing machine", be all end all fighting styles out there. And to make it worse, it was the one that made attaching a SEAL, SF, Ranger type of cred to it. And in some cases simply because some guys showed up to train once or twice. That is where my bias on this issue comes from. I just do not find it effective otherwise.


Train on.
I agree completely, with that statement, Peterson was one of the TRS fighter's of the month and then took the hype for his personal enrichment...


I do not doubt the effectiveness of rigorous MMA training, its just not what I need as a fat 50 something guy with a bad ticker...

Daredevil
7 March 2005, 11:16
Good responses.

Former SEAL Frank Cucci, the guy I started out training under, has a column in Bodyguard magazine. This week he has a pretty good write up on why you SHOULDN'T look to Special Operations guys for Martial Arts advice. He likened it to asking them for their opinion on an orchestral piece.

Although, he did also highly commend the new Army Combatives program. Probably because it's closely in line with what he and Pat have been saying for years.

BadMuther
7 March 2005, 14:39
Good responses.

Former SEAL Frank Cucci, the guy I started out training under, has a column in Bodyguard magazine. This week he has a pretty good write up on why you SHOULDN'T look to Special Operations guys for Martial Arts advice. He likened it to asking them for their opinion on an orchestral piece.

Although, he did also highly commend the new Army Combatives program. Probably because it's closely in line with what he and Pat have been saying for years.

I served with the guy that started the Army Combatives program. He is registered here, but too my knowledge he has never posted.

Daredevil
7 March 2005, 14:54
Matt Larson?

He posts over on the MMA.tv UnderGround, particularly the Soldierground forum.

BadMuther
7 March 2005, 14:57
Matt Larson?

He posts over on the MMA.tv UnderGround, particularly the Soldierground forum.

Yeah, that's him, I was in LRSC with him. Got a link for that place?

Daredevil
7 March 2005, 15:01
Yeah, that's him, I was in LRSC with him. Got a link for that place?

http://www.mma.tv

BadMuther
7 March 2005, 15:20
http://www.mma.tv


Thanks!

chokeu2
7 March 2005, 22:50
Larson is a class act. He invited me to come down to train with them, then this baby came along and whooped my ass... :D

Larson puts out good fighters, and runs a tight, no bullshit program.

AQUATEENHUNGERFORCE
8 March 2005, 19:05
I appreciate the feedback.

SGTROCK
8 March 2005, 23:37
About Larkin:Matchanu hit it on the head, the guy lied to me right on the phone and then changed his story after I asked him what his BUD/s class was.
He has even posted here at SOCNET a few times. As for SCARS utter nonsense and crap. San Soo masquerading as this autokinematic responsive reaction shit dont work in the real world!!!
My theory(among others LOL) hit him first,hit him fast and hit him hard and then keep hittin him!! Oh yeah and then run before the cops get there!
There are no rules on the street,headbutts,knees,elbows,biting,hair pulling,eye gouging its all pretty straight forward and simple,now flight or fight and controlling your adrenaline is another story!

Rock

Gryfen-FL
8 March 2005, 23:50
Does anyone know if "autokinematic responsive reaction" is very prevalent in MA circles?

I've run across it (or a concept very similar) with a Sifu in the past and would appreciate any insight into its prevalence.

chokeu2
9 March 2005, 09:09
Its a nice buzzword, and theoretically, you can have a case for it. Problem is your most likely not going to be able to hit your guy where you want to get the desired response. In my 20+ years of training, the only things that I've seen work day in and day out, never needed this "response" thingy... :D

I've fought and sparred against guys that got into theories like that and they just suffered a well worded, rapid loss.... :D

Beerbelly
8 May 2005, 15:50
Damn, after coming in here and reading these blogs for the past 6 months, I finally need to register just to get some real truth out here on this thread.

Matchanu & Rock, you guys are partial truth and partial lies/BS. I met Larkin and Peterson back in 90's when they opened SCARs. Yes, it was expensive. Yes, it was based primarily on san soo. But did Larkin ever claim to be a SEAL? :confused: Never! Even the Men's Fitness article and the Black Belt articles (from the 1990's) explain that Larkin was injured while in BUDS (diving accident) and he never graduated.

Rock, if you truly, honestly, really did talk to Larkin, he could name his BUDS class and instructors, and the CO he worked for after his accident (he did navy intel after he was medically discharged from BUDS). So you are obviously mixing BS with truth, the mark of a great liar, or a competitor trying to discredit a guy who served his country honorably and never misrepresented himself. You can call/e-mail Larkin directly at www.tftgroup.com. In fact, look at his published bio on that web site, where he explains in detail his Navy duties. Matchanu, you said Larkin washed out? BS. Check his record. Blasted eardrums on a dive at BUDS.

As for TFT, I took a seminar in Las Vegas in Jan 05. Prior to that, I had taken a SCARS seminar when they had their camp in AZ. Larkin has done a good job of making TFT something for civilians that is based just on violence. Only violence. No martial arts, no promises of being a "bad ass". Just a promise that once you leave, you will have gotten some significant conditioning and training in how to use your body (fists, knees, fingers, elbows, hips, etc.) and tools to take out an eye, break a neck, stomp a trachea, rupture a testicle, etc., and some good info on human anatomy and some very basic physics (how to apply proper strikes and get an injury). More importantly, they teach in a few days, how to come to terms with starting violence (hitting first), when you feel you need to. That is of great use to civilians (like me) who are not comfortable with violence.

Both TFT and SCARS are out to make money, but for someone like me (and many others like me) who just want to know how to get out of a violent situation with my life, its great. You need some disposable income to participate, and if you can't afford the price tag, then san soo or some other brutal MA or violence training would do just dandy.

67 Fastback
8 May 2005, 17:55
Damn, after coming in here and reading these blogs for the past 6 months, I finally need to register just to get some real truth out here on this thread.

Matchanu & Rock, you guys are partial truth and partial lies/BS. I met Larkin and Peterson back in 90's when they opened SCARs. Yes, it was expensive. Yes, it was based primarily on san soo. But did Larkin ever claim to be a SEAL? :confused: Never! Even the Men's Fitness article and the Black Belt articles (from the 1990's) explain that Larkin was injured while in BUDS (diving accident) and he never graduated.

Rock, if you truly, honestly, really did talk to Larkin, he could name his BUDS class and instructors, and the CO he worked for after his accident (he did navy intel after he was medically discharged from BUDS). So you are obviously mixing BS with truth, the mark of a great liar, or a competitor trying to discredit a guy who served his country honorably and never misrepresented himself. You can call/e-mail Larkin directly at www.tftgroup.com. In fact, look at his published bio on that web site, where he explains in detail his Navy duties. Matchanu, you said Larkin washed out? BS. Check his record. Blasted eardrums on a dive at BUDS.

As for TFT, I took a seminar in Las Vegas in Jan 05. Prior to that, I had taken a SCARS seminar when they had their camp in AZ. Larkin has done a good job of making TFT something for civilians that is based just on violence. Only violence. No martial arts, no promises of being a "bad ass". Just a promise that once you leave, you will have gotten some significant conditioning and training in how to use your body (fists, knees, fingers, elbows, hips, etc.) and tools to take out an eye, break a neck, stomp a trachea, rupture a testicle, etc., and some good info on human anatomy and some very basic physics (how to apply proper strikes and get an injury). More importantly, they teach in a few days, how to come to terms with starting violence (hitting first), when you feel you need to. That is of great use to civilians (like me) who are not comfortable with violence.

Both TFT and SCARS are out to make money, but for someone like me (and many others like me) who just want to know how to get out of a violent situation with my life, its great. You need some disposable income to participate, and if you can't afford the price tag, then san soo or some other brutal MA or violence training would do just dandy.


Breaking necks, stomp trachea...hm, sounds alot like deadly force. So what you're telling me, is that this course is really good at teaching wannabe tough guys basics on how to apply deadly force...thats great...and I suppose potentially lethal techniques are meant to be taught in a leisurely manner to anyone who can pay the money. To LEGALLY apply deadly force you have to believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that your life is in immediate danger or that you are about to suffer serious bodily harm.

Even as a younger martial artist I have REAL problems with anyone imparting extremely dangerous techniques to anyone that will fork over the cash in a seminar setting. As if these are things to be taught in a small amount of time, and not given the care of years of training, and instruction on appropriate application and whether or not the person has the skill, character, integrity, and levelheadedness to be taught something that can kill another person.

I'll give you a good example. You'll notice a thread I started in this particular forum involving a happening in a petstore. Suppose I was some uppity, wannabe badass who has had a couple of seminars. The kinda wannabe badass who thinks that since he's been "taught to kill" and he's so well acquainted with violence that he's got no reason to be afraid. So maybe I could've rushed at the dude, and since I'm NOT that well trained, I don't kick his ass, but he DOES pull out his gun and CAP ME. A good question to ask would be why this DIDN'T happen.

People who are not worthy of lethal techniques, like young stupid wannabe tough guys, don't need any more encouragement. They certainly don't need encouragement in the form of small, poor quality instruction, and YES I maintain wholeheartedly that attending any weekend or week long seminar does not constitute adequate instruction. It takes THOUSANDS upon thousands of repetitions to get movements down, especially under the eye of an instructor that can assess your skills, and correct your mistakes.

You will, I'm sure, immedietely note my age, and criticize my experience. I have been a Martial artist all my life, and I'm willing to bet you that the seniors on here will not disagree with most of my assertions about programs like these.

(Note: I am sure there are plenty of schools that run seminars with regard to various disciplines. However, these would be within their own community, and dealing with experienced students. For instance Choke could feasibly invite me to train with him, assess my skills, and do a "seminar" on specific areas of BJJ. I am an experienced grappler, and still would not consider this imparting techniques, just leading into future instruction, or assessment. I would go so far as to say that this could just be considered "exposure" and nothing more.)

fish78
8 May 2005, 18:06
fastback, There are many folks, myself included, that have no need nor desire to make martial arts a lifestyle. We do however, have need to properly protect ourselves. That must START with lethal use of force. Just because I can kill someone that doesn't mean I will or even need to...What those of us middle aged and older need and want is greatly different from your needs. It is not your job to decide who is "worthy" of lethal techniques.

For Beerbelly, you are in NY...seek out Carl Cestari or some of his students, you won't regret it.

SOTB
8 May 2005, 18:27
In roughly '94 I hired SCARS to teach a class to my people at our mountain retreat south of Monterrey (yeah, I believed that whole hype about the Navy contract, etc.).

Jerry and Tim came, along with another dude.

Bottom line, they did not get another invite....

67 Fastback
8 May 2005, 18:27
fastback, There are many folks, myself included, that have no need nor desire to make martial arts a lifestyle. We do however, have need to properly protect ourselves. That must START with lethal use of force. Just because I can kill someone that doesn't mean I will or even need to...What those of us middle aged and older need and want is greatly different from your needs. It is not your job to decide who is "worthy" of lethal techniques.

For Beerbelly, you are in NY...seek out Carl Cestari or some of his students, you won't regret it.

My apologies, my mistake for not being more precise in my definition and explanation. I do not mean to imply that everyone that can attend these courses or that can take something valuable away from them fits a certain bill. Again, my mistake.

Edit: After going over my arguement, I have observed that I fail to accurately present certain reservations. These programs can, and do carry merit for certain individuals. While I hold that there are serious flaws, and I personally would not encourage anyone to take seminars that fit into the description of this SCARS program, I am far from the afficianado, and I do not hold the distinction of being able to assess any of these programs with exact certainty.
Fish, I'm glad that you benefit from the experience, and are better equipped to deal with threats.

Beerbelly
8 May 2005, 20:37
Fish78; Will look into Carl, thank you for the tip. Do you have a website for him?

67 Fastback; understand your points (not good stuff for "wannabe tough guys", but great for 40-60 yr old cowards like me who will walk a mile to avoid a bar fight with a maniac). Older, sane, intelligent people can be responsible with lethal force. The bummer is that criminals have no requirement for lethal force, so why not the general population? We just have to be responsible for our actions, and if they are wrong, then we go to jail or get sued. Sounds like a better deal than just becoming a victim because I didnt study a MA for ten years. :D

67fastback; One more item that shows you are correct on most of what you said. At TFT, they frown on teaching men under 20. Too much testosterone. They prefer older men over 30, and women of any age.

fish78
8 May 2005, 20:40
http://www.close-combat-video.com/whowe.html

Matchanu
9 May 2005, 12:59
Matchanu & Rock, you guys are partial truth and partial lies/BS. I met Larkin and Peterson back in 90's when they opened SCARs. Yes, it was expensive. Yes, it was based primarily on san soo. But did Larkin ever claim to be a SEAL? :confused: Never! Even the Men's Fitness article and the Black Belt articles (from the 1990's) explain that Larkin was injured while in BUDS (diving accident) and he never graduated.

Matchanu, you said Larkin washed out? BS. Check his record. Blasted eardrums on a dive at BUDS.

.

Larkin was a shitbag who never went through hell week. He loved to try to push his weight around and act like a tough guy. His "blown eardrum" was only a short predesser to him being booted or quiting. People quit in different ways, it isn't always ringing a bell. Besides, he didn't blow his eardrum out in BUD/S, it was a civilian dive, off-duty.

SCARS was a fucking waste of time and NSWC money. Peterson got his ass kicked in a match he set up with another team guy. He tried to put his money were his mouth was and it didn't pan out.

Men's Fitness articles? whoopde fucking doo, guess what stud, I was there when this shit happened. I still remember the day Tim Larkin came in durring one of our PT sessions, wearing BDU pants, and a Dago Choppers T-shirt, talking tough, talking like he was a team guy who had been there and done that. It sounded weird then, even when I was a fucking tadpole, I could tell he was full of shit. Low and behold, I was right.

Never said Jerry claimed to be a SEAL, Tim has been caught on numberous occations with this claim.

SCARS was shitcanned from NSW in short time, then Jerry and Tim go out and try to sell their product to whoever will listen. The whole 3 page addy in SOF was a testimate to the "credibility" of his "product". Another snake oil salesman.

Your argument holds no water. You don't like what you hear, too fucking bad, these are the facts. You say you know them? give them a hardy "fuck you" from me for selling the NSW name for a dollar.

Beerbelly
9 May 2005, 16:54
Matchanu; I can say that when Larkin was asked by attendees if he was a SEAL, off the floor at SCARS, Larkin said "no" (that was mid 90's), and said he never completed BUDS due to his eardrums. It would have been easy to lie, because none of those people were military and just assumed he was a SEAL because he was in the Navy, until he said no when they asked. His bio on his TFT website addresses that too. Seems pretty stupid for someone to claim to be a SEAL, and then go out of his way to explain he never became one, repeatedly, over a period of many years (in publications and web sites). Larkin's not a genius, but he is not an idiot, and he must know better than most that real SEALs are always waiting for someone to make that exact lie.

As for being a bully (I hate bullies), the times I have seen him, he is a regular, self deprecating guy, and always tells people that his TFT stuff is only one of many systems out there that works for dealing with violence. Prior to going to that seminar, I got the joint breaking DVDs ($250), and it's still better than most things I have seen out there. I also like the fightfast.com ($180) series, and the fight2survive.com ($150) both of which I picked up. For those of us who are just regular guys, not looking for trouble, but want an education on how to deal with violence, products and seminars like these can be helpful. I never took an interest in H2H until 1993, when I was robbed and beaten by 3 assholes, and my 4 years of prior boxing at a local club did nothing for me.

Matchanu
9 May 2005, 17:17
Matchanu; I can say that when Larkin was asked by attendees if he was a SEAL, off the floor at SCARS, Larkin said "no" (that was mid 90's), and said he never completed BUDS due to his eardrums. It would have been easy to lie, because none of those people were military and just assumed he was a SEAL because he was in the Navy, until he said no when they asked. His bio on his TFT website addresses that too. Seems pretty stupid for someone to claim to be a SEAL, and then go out of his way to explain he never became one, repeatedly, over a period of many years (in publications and web sites). Larkin's not a genius, but he is not an idiot, and he must know better than most that real SEALs are always waiting for someone to make that exact lie.

As for being a bully (I hate bullies), the times I have seen him, he is a regular, self deprecating guy, and always tells people that his TFT stuff is only one of many systems out there that works for dealing with violence. Prior to going to that seminar, I got the joint breaking DVDs ($250), and it's still better than most things I have seen out there. I also like the fightfast.com ($180) series, and the fight2survive.com ($150) both of which I picked up. For those of us who are just regular guys, not looking for trouble, but want an education on how to deal with violence, products and seminars like these can be helpful. I never took an interest in H2H until 1993, when I was robbed and beaten by 3 assholes, and my 4 years of prior boxing at a local club did nothing for me.

What can I say? I met Tim in 1989, along with Jerry when they were introducing the SCARS COI. He was caught a few times claiming to be a SEAL, but hey, why let the facts get in the way of your hero worship of Tim. He was outed a while back becasue of his website, claiming to be a SEAL, he quickly took it down soon after.

I guess I could have been a brain surgen if it wasn't for that pesky task of actually training for it. I guess you can say I was a contender for NASCAR because I drove once.


I guess you are calling me a liar, well, goody for you. My assesment of Tim, Jerry, and the SCARS program is something built up over years and years, and other proffessionals working in the craft. Maybe Tim has changed in the last few years, who the fuck knows? or cares? He was a douch bag then, probably is now.

He may be the bee knees for civilians, but he's a shitbag in the spec ops community.

Dark Helmet
9 May 2005, 18:01
Does anyone know if "autokinematic responsive reaction" is very prevalent in MA circles?

No idea, but the term sounds ignorant right off the bat due to its redundancy.

BadMuther
10 May 2005, 06:01
I got the joint breaking DVDs ($250), and it's still better than most things I have seen out there. I also like the fightfast.com ($180) series, and the fight2survive.com ($150) both of which I picked up. For those of us who are just regular guys, not looking for trouble, but want an education on how to deal with violence, products and seminars like these can be helpful. I never took an interest in H2H until 1993, when I was robbed and beaten by 3 assholes, and my 4 years of prior boxing at a local club did nothing for me.

Here's a free piece of unsolicited advice...

Learn some situational awareness (free), buy a $9 can of pepper spray, and use your noggin (also free). If that isn't enough for you, take the $580 you spent on DVD's and get a used glock and some training on it.

Also, never fight fair-always fight to win, and to win quickly. Gun beats knife, knife/impact weapons beat h2h. Going hands on with someone should be a total last resort.

My 2 pesos.

DCH
10 May 2005, 15:10
[Beavis] taser, taser, taser [Beavis/]

Kurt V
10 May 2005, 15:24
I just want to say "Fingers of Death!"

martialboxer
11 May 2005, 00:59
As for being a bully (I hate bullies), the times I have seen him, he is a regular, self deprecating guy, and always tells people that his TFT stuff is only one of many systems out there that works for dealing with violence. Prior to going to that seminar, I got the joint breaking DVDs ($250), and it's still better than most things I have seen out there. I also like the fightfast.com ($180) series, and the fight2survive.com ($150) both of which I picked up.
How many DVDs do you have? You spent almost $500 on DVDs. I have a few tapes and DVDs myself and they've helped my technique a bit but wouldn't you consider $600 overkill? I'm not trying to be disrespectful but trying to understand your line of thought. I personally would spend that $500 and learn a martial art that teaches joint locks and breaks (which are most). $500 can get you about a year's worth of judo, hapkido/aikido, or JJ/BJJ instruction and they all teach locks.

The Corporate Guy
11 May 2005, 01:57
I never took an interest in H2H until 1993, when I was robbed and beaten by 3 assholes, and my 4 years of prior boxing at a local club did nothing for me.

...If you can't win a 3 on 1 fight, then CLEARLY the solution is spend mad money on DVDs. :rolleyes:

90mm
16 May 2005, 20:17
This is from a Tim Larkin interview in 2003:

"I've been involved in combat sports since I was about four years old, and various martial arts and combat sports throughout my grade school and high school. Sports background is basically football, basketball, water polo. I went to University with the goal of getting out into a Special Operations unit. So I went through Navy Seal training and did real well with that.
I was involved in a diving accident and went into the intelligence community. And it was there that I was able to take all my years of experience in martial arts and combat sports and become an instructor and a trainer in hand-to-hand combat. And that's what I've been doing since I got out of the military."

"Going through SEAL training" and doing "real well" gives the impression that he graduated BUD/S.

SGTROCK
5 June 2005, 02:48
Beerbelly, I DID talk to Tim directly on the phone and he said he was with NSW and a SEAL, I said what was your BUDs class and he quickly changed,obviously realizing he wasnt dealing with a kid,and said he blew out his ears on a "training" dive and went into the NSW intelligence field.
Dont EVER tell me that Iam a liar or BSing or you will quickly find your ass outta here! I have no dog in this competitive end of things just stating how I feel about him and Petersen and that is my job as one of the Moderators here at SOCNET!!!!!!!!!!!

Rock

Ranger002
22 March 2006, 12:55
SCARS sucks... has sucked... and will always suck. If you spend more than 10 dollars on training DVD's well ...you need to get to the Dojo.

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=46 Larkin is still lying about his background

"autobullshitmatics" is as old as the Martial Arts and was founded the minute a Chinese or Indian Guy got an arrow stuck into him. Ever heard of Accupuncture, Shiatsu, Dim Mak and I could go on and on. It's been around for about ohhhhh 1500 years or so...LOL



William Hazen

Impavidus
22 March 2006, 13:18
Here's a free piece of unsolicited advice...

Learn some situational awareness (free), buy a $9 can of pepper spray, and use your noggin (also free). If that isn't enough for you, take the $580 you spent on DVD's and get a used glock and some training on it.

Also, never fight fair-always fight to win, and to win quickly. Gun beats knife, knife/impact weapons beat h2h. Going hands on with someone should be a total last resort.

My 2 pesos.
I'm with BadMuther on this. $580 buys alot of ammo.

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 13:23
OMG??!! There is so much wrong with that article! Starting with the SCARS bullshit, and going down hill from there.

Why is it that no one calls these idiots out on all of their bs? Can any of you BTDT's address why or how this guy is getting these "plaques" that document the training that he's done for "Special Operations" command? Did your units hand these out to anyone who came to train them? How can he get away with calling this the official H2H style of the SEAL's?

It would seem that it would be easy to call this guy out. How much truth is built into the hype?

I can address the fighting "style" itself. It SUCK goat balls. I've gone full speed with a SCARS guy and it wasn't even a match where cardio levels got raised. Hell, look at the graphics in that article about their "ground fighting". No way, no how, especially in the second picture where they're attacking the neck and shoulder simultaneously. Try that shit... Right...

I'll enjoy this thread firing up against and roasting these assholes.

These guys are a representation of everything that is wrong with the martial arts. And it also makes things rough for those of us who do appreciate discretion.

Matchanu
22 March 2006, 13:31
Phhht.

Tim is still at it, big fucking suprize,

There's no contact information for the site above.

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 13:37
I've got a friend thats a writer in Hollywood who can most likely get the authors contact info. He's a hollywood type that actually likes the military, and has actually out'd a poser who was applying for a stunt man job on one of his projects.

Match, if you'd like it, I'll drop ya a PM if he gets the guys contact info.

Polynikes0321
22 March 2006, 14:13
http://www.fightingarts.com/content00/graphics/groundfighting.jpg

What the fuck is this?

Now come on and get real: is that really going to work on a guy who is struggling with you?

Matchanu
22 March 2006, 14:20
I've got a friend thats a writer in Hollywood who can most likely get the authors contact info. He's a hollywood type that actually likes the military, and has actually out'd a poser who was applying for a stunt man job on one of his projects.

Match, if you'd like it, I'll drop ya a PM if he gets the guys contact info.


I found the link for the contact info of the site. I'll write him from there.

Never ending battle.

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 14:36
Roger that.

Matchanu
22 March 2006, 14:37
http://www.fightingarts.com/aboutus/


I sent an email to the feed back link.

I'll let you know what transpires.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=46



Hi, my name is xxxxxxxxx. I have some feedback on this acticle and some onformation I need to bring to your attention.

I first met up with Tim Larkin and Jerry Peterson in 1989 while I was attending BUD/S in Coronado, CA. The SCARS program was an experimental fighting system to be tested with current active duty SEAL, and BUD/S students. Tim Larkin attempted to pass him self off as a SEAL at our first meeting, when confronted, he claimed he was dropped from training because of a "ruptured eardrum". He has used this excuse many times. Fact is, he ruptured his eardrum in a diving accident not in training, but on a civilian dive while he was off duty. Tim Larkin never even made it to Hell Week, He has never been a Navy SEAL. The admin staff at CyberSEAL confronted him yet again when he was selling his wears on his website TFT. He apologized and "adjusted" his website. I see once again he is at it, making claims of being a Navy SEAL, a tital he has not earned.

The SCARS system was quickly dropped from NSW. It was inneffectual to say the least. Never-the-less, Jerry likes to play himself as the Yoda of NSW martial arts. Selling the NSW name for personal gain is a pet peeve of mine, but that is a totally different issue.

I spent 13 years in NSW. I fought long and hard for the tital I have earned. I take it very personally when people make claims of this tital who have not earned it.

I'm looking into some of his other claims and will inform when I have more data.

All I ask for is some truth in their advertising.

I thought you should know, as by having a write up about these guys, makes you vouch for them, intentional or otherwise.

Take care.

XXXXXXXXXX
BUD/S 167
ST-5 90-01
ST-1NR 01-03

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:13
**edit

Daredevil
22 March 2006, 15:16
http://www.fightingarts.com/content00/graphics/groundfighting.jpg

What the fuck is this?

Now come on and get real: is that really going to work on a guy who is struggling with you?
LOL @ the description with that pic:

Blake Peterson and Tim Larkin demonstrate the type of dynamic ground fighting taught in the SCARS system. The hold shown simultaneously attacks the opponent's neck an shoulder.

I can see several escapes from that position just looking at the picture. Like, I don't know, a basic forward roll. Doesn't look like junior's leg is doing a good job of controlling the half guard.

Matchanu
22 March 2006, 15:19
The response.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this article we relied on our reporter. What you may say may have some truth, but equally true, I have no idea who you are, if you are real, have actual SEAL background or training? You just appeared out of the blue insulting an author. So you will have to go a lot further before we know enough to know. Thanks.

Christopher Caile
Editor
FightingArts.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------




No problem, I sent him a link to VeriSEAL and SOCNET for validating my creds. I also told him about this thread and hope he checks it out.

I have no problem having someone verifing my creds, I welcome it.

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:32
http://www.fightingarts.com/content00/graphics/groundfighting.jpg

What the fuck is this?

Now come on and get real: is that really going to work on a guy who is struggling with you?


Somehow I missed your post!

That is the most pathetic attempt at a cheesy move on the ground that I think I've ever seen. No way thats gonna work on even a non grappler, let alone someone who has half a clue what they are doing. And to think that some people are easily fooled enough to think that this type of TRASH is worth $5k.

How easily led some can be. What they are truly paying $5k for is the ability to THINK that they've truly been converted into a badass. What a shame.

Ranger002
22 March 2006, 15:38
Well... I guess if I tried to smell someone's penis they may try to deflect my attack using the SCARS Technique noted above. :rolleyes:

But then again I practice Martial Arts not Homo Arts....

William Hazen

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:39
DD, you are right. And if you look closer, if the "chokee" would rotate his torso to the left, which would place his head in the direction of the "choke'rs" right shoulder, he could easily pass that pathetic exuse of a guard. Larkin doesn't even have a decent grip on the throat!

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:44
This from the DragonDoor site:
http://www.dragondoor.com/success_stories/TimLarkin.html

Dragon Door: Tell us about your athletic background, and your experience with kettlebells.

Tim Larkin: I've been involved in combat sports since I was about four years old, and various martial arts and combat sports throughout my grade school and high school. Sports background is basically football, basketball, water polo. I went to University with the goal of getting out into a Special Operations unit. So I went through Navy Seal training and did real well with that.

I was involved in a diving accident and went into the intelligence community. And it was there that I was able to take all my years of experience in martial arts and combat sports and become an instructor and a trainer in hand-to-hand combat. And that's what I've been doing since I got out of the military.

It appears as though he has a stock line to throw

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:46
This one is too good to pass up.

http://www.targetfocustraining.com/bio.html

All about his superior skills, and a diving accident while in BUD's.

Ranger002
22 March 2006, 15:47
DD, you are right. And if you look closer, if the "chokee" would rotate his torso to the left, which would place his head in the direction of the "choke'rs" right shoulder, he could easily pass that pathetic exuse of a guard. Larkin doesn't even have a decent grip on the throat!

It's just weak and there are so many counters it's not even funny. I see a half rolling into and trapping the off leg leading to an ankle/toe lock or reverse Kimura. You can pick this BS apart all day long.

William Hazen

Polynikes0321
22 March 2006, 15:49
Look how weak that guy is on the ground! Is that a wrist lock he's holding onto that guy's arm with? That would be easily blown it seems, by even a weak man. Plus, if he tries to hold onto that while the guy attempts a reversal, he has no base on that side of his body, and he's going to get passed. That leg control is equally terrible...

I'm just a blue belt and I want to roll with that guy...

Oh yeah, hey choke:

I was in the Arnold's a few weekends ago. I won my first match but separated my shoulder in the process. I attempted my next match but it was a no go. I lasted all of two minutes playing open guard going for sweeps before the pain became too great to do anything effective, so I just tapped the mat and went to the ringside doctors for ice...

Pisses me off man, because I honestly feel that I would have taken silver in the tournament. The guy that won my division has like 70 tournament wins as a blue belt, and better have fucking been promoted after I left. He wasn't no fuckin' blue belt that I've ever seen. He subbed every guy he rolled against, and had a nasty cross collar choke from the open guard...

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:50
Roger that Bill... He should actually be embarrassed at even being in that picture. Calling that a weak hold insults guys who actually know how to perform weak holds.

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 15:52
I didn't know you were doing the Arnolds!!!!

Bro! If I'd have realize that I'd have gone. I was going to be in the area, and only needed an exuse. I am sorry to hear about the shoulder though. That REALLY sucks. What did the doc say? Back on the mat soon?

Polynikes0321
22 March 2006, 15:52
Oh my word...

He has a "nuclear weapons" package?

Has he been training the guys in Iran? Is that what is going on? And we thought that Saddam had the WMD's!!!

Boy did we look in the wrong place!!!

Sifu-Master-EnriqueIglesiasTim had them all along!!!

Polynikes0321
22 March 2006, 15:55
I didn't know you were doing the Arnolds!!!!

Bro! If I'd have realize that I'd have gone. I was going to be in the area, and only needed an exuse. I am sorry to hear about the shoulder though. That REALLY sucks. What did the doc say? Back on the mat soon?

Well, that was March 3-5 and today is the 22nd...

I've still got at least a week or two...

I'm probably going to go back to class next week and just watch though. I'm not even going to take my gi, knee pads, extra clothes to change into, nothing! That way, I won't be stupid and just go "Well, a little bit won't hurt..."

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 16:00
I was up there in the area when the A was going on. Would have loved to have cornered ya.
I forgot your in Savannah... I'm about to buy a crash pad from a guy in Savannah. How long is the drive to Atl?

Back on topic I suppose... :D

Wouldn't it be fun to have Larkin in this thread? Since he has such superior skills-n-all...

Polynikes0321
22 March 2006, 16:12
You know Scotty Devine or Garth Spendiff by any chance?

They cornered me up there, but the more the merrier! I'll be up that way to roll with you perhaps this summer. Did you go to the Arnold's at all? There was a lot going on at that place...

I got to go to the Gracie vs Hammerhouse Pro MMA event that Friday night. That shit was crazy man. Mark Coleman is the missing link between man and ape! That fucker is huge!!!

Seeing Dan Bobish get violently KO'ed by a knee from a guy 60 pounds lighter than him = priceless

I'll tell you that I'll never go to another pay per view MMA event again though. The people there have no idea what they are talking about. It's disgraceful. I was so pissed the entire event from all of the stupid comments I was hearing...

Wes Sims is in the process of getting fucked up by Daniel Gracie, and all of a sudden I hear directly behind me: "Grab his fucking leg Wes! Grab it and break it!"

chokeu2
22 March 2006, 16:39
Spendiff... Isn't he on board with SFC Larson with Army Combatives? If thats the guy I'm thinking of, you're in damn good hands!

I'm with ya on actually attending ppv events. If its not the people who have no idea what they're talking about spewing ca ca, then it is the thug nuts from certain schools trying to get all Cobra Kai on everyone.

Coleman... That man beast used to train with us in Atlanta... He is a different breed, that is for sure.

As for going to the Arnold, I didn't bother. I've been to so many events, I need a personal reason to spend the time now.

Polynikes0321
22 March 2006, 16:51
Spendiff... Isn't he on board with SFC Larson with Army Combatives? If thats the guy I'm thinking of, you're in damn good hands!

I'm with ya on actually attending ppv events. If its not the people who have no idea what they're talking about spewing ca ca, then it is the thug nuts from certain schools trying to get all Cobra Kai on everyone.

Coleman... That man beast used to train with us in Atlanta... He is a different breed, that is for sure.

As for going to the Arnold, I didn't bother. I've been to so many events, I need a personal reason to spend the time now.

Yeah, Garth is one of the combatives instructors. He is the head of www.coastalcombatives.com

He is the best brown belt that I've ever seen...

Dirty_Sanchez
24 March 2006, 20:19
chokeu2 vs. Larkin, Zuffa make it happen. :D

chokeu2
24 March 2006, 22:31
I LOVE your thinking. You are obviously a man of impeccable intellect! :D

ParrotHead
13 January 2015, 16:39
So it seems our good friend Tim is resurfacing again. He's getting a lot of air time on national news lately, peddling his techniques. I wonder if he's still claiming to be a SEAL.

**old thread resurrection points*

22H2H
1 February 2015, 16:26
I love Tim Larkin, and the few hundred other guys who've taught the SEALs. All the dicks that I don't want to train with pay $500 to go to their seminars, whilst I pay $5 to go to the boxing gym.

That suits me just fine.