Brutal training video

[Daredevil]

This is a video of Satoro Sayama leading a training session. He's the founder of the Shooto system of fighting. Check out his "coaching methods." Erik Paulson's Shooto coach, Yuri Nakamura, trained directly from this guy. Check out the link, watch the video, and post thoughts.

http://gazo01.chbox.jp/movie/src/1108736293814.wmv

[Sharky]

If he hit me like that I'd make it my sole mission in life to kill his ass.

[SOTB]

....and post thoughts.What?

That he's a punk-assed bully who finds himself unable to deal with his own shortcomings as an instructor? Or that his students will find themselves trying to mimic anything he says/does rather than have the courage to tell him they didn't quite understand a technique or teaching point -- therefore taking longer to learn the technique, if they really ever learn it at all. Or that he gets a woody from his feeling of importance, knowing that if the loner stands up to him/disagrees with him, the "group" will support him when he proclaims that this is HIS class and HIS way of teaching.

Are you "impressed" with this guy? I'm sure there are plenty of people out there in this "style" that are capable instructors and that can get their instruction across without abusing their status as a leader/instructor.

BTW, he "may" be a badass, but would suffer the same fate as all of the rest of the badasses when a chair/baseball bat is wrapped upside his grape....

[Daredevil]

I posted a link, not an endorsement.

I know that neither Nakamura nor Paulson engage in this sort of coaching.

Had I walked in interested in training there and seen that going on, I would have promptly walked out.

[Gryfen-FL]

My .02:
Dirtbag on a 9-line ego trip.

I'd bet every one of his student's has a bona-fied case of batterd spouse syndrome. I agree with SOTB. Every one of those students would rabidly defend their 'master'. After a while the abuse is the lock in-and-of itself. No way someone who willingly submits themselves to that kind of bullshit will ever admit to themselves that it's for nothing.
:rolleyes:

[SOTB]

I posted a link, not an endorsement.

I know that neither Nakamura nor Paulson engage in this sort of coaching.

Had I walked in interested in training there and seen that going on, I would have promptly walked out.Well I certainly did not get the impression that you "weren't" endorsing it from your first post. I almost believe that your initial post allowed you to go either way, depending on the reaction of the board members.

If you sincerely feel that he is a great instructor, then state it and why. I'm sure you will get some severe disagreement, but if you can present your argument -- who knows. If you DO NOT think this guy is the greatest thing going, then again, I'm curious as to why you didn't state so at the beginning.

Don't get me wrong. EVERYONE gets frustrated with their students at one time or another. But the abuse this guy dishes out is not only WRONG, but detrimental to getting the teaching point across anyway....

[Daredevil]

If you sincerely feel that he is a great instructor, then state it and why. I'm sure you will get some severe disagreement, but if you can present your argument -- who knows. If you DO NOT think this guy is the greatest thing going, then again, I'm curious as to why you didn't state so at the beginning.

Yes and no.

I think Shooto is an excellent system to learn. I'd give this guy credit for devising it.

His method of coaching and teaching is not something I agree with. I don't see the point in that kind of brutality in teaching. Hurting training partners is stupid for a number of reasons.

This made the rounds at the school I train at, the consensus of everyone, myself included, was, "Fuck that."

To tell you the truth, I was mainly in a hurry when I initially put this up and copied both text and link directly from another message board. One of my Program Managers came in needing something so I just hit submit without adding anything else.

[Snake]

Welcome to Japan.

That kind of BS is endemic in the Gendai Martial Arts (Karate, Aikido, the Shootfighting clones, etc). My opinion is that it comes from the Kano/Funakoshi setup*, which invests the Sensei with massive amounts of authority. Guess what happens when Sensei isnt a very nice person?

You -don't- see it too much in Judo or Kendo, where the Sensei/Coach is just the most experienced competitor. More of a collegial club atmosphere. It is almost nonexistant in the koryu (ancient) bushido, which are surviving schools/systems from the Sengoku/Shogunate era, and are essentially extended families or small religions.

BTW, what you saw in the clip was -nothing- compared to the Yoshinkan's(Aikido) "Riot Police" course. It's 8 months long, and they basically do a really bad impression of Lee Ermey as GySGT Hartmann. Has nothing to do with Martial Arts skill (aquisition of), and everything to do with "paying up". I.e. letting someone abuse you in exchange for recognition.


*-Kano(Judo) and Funakoshi(Karate) introduced the whole formal class structure into Japanese Martial Arts. Lining up in rows according to rank, with the Sensei at the head, next to the flag, etc. Lots of yelling and kowtowing. Basically, they grafted on Meiji-era Japanese educational structures onto Karate and Judo.
The Koryu jujitsu systems (what the Japanese did, prior to Judo and Karate) never did that sort of stuff. They resemble a really -intense- boxing, or maybe surfing, club. One guy holds the lineage, having learned it from the previous Master. He teaches everyone and is massively respected. He will pass the lineage onto another, in turn. Many of them require a blood oath, or keppan, to enter.

[RAT]

All I can say is in my 4 plus yrs in Japan I never saw anything like that.

Bully. Period.

RAT OUT!!!

[Snake]

All I can say is in my 4 plus yrs in Japan I never saw anything like that.

Bully. Period.

RAT OUT!!!


I will admit, the sticks/canes were a new twist...

[Typhoon]

The guy isn't a teacher or a coach; he is a punk ass bully. He will get his somewhere.

In 52 seconds he did not teach one thing about how to perform the techniques properly. He is a piss poor instructor who has nothing to offer his students but pain. It doesn't matter what the culture is, beating the shit out of your students does not earn true respect, only fear and hatred. There is a world of difference between being tough, disciplined, and demanding the best out of your students and being an asshole.

[67 Fastback]

When I was actively studying Judo and Jujitsu under my old Sensei (who was a retired Army Sgt.)...I was a little younger, and uh, not so wise...kinda like a bull in a china closet. One day I got to flippin through some of the Sensei's old reading materials while he wasn't looking, came upon something I thought was AWESOME. Pages with technique and pictures on kill blows and various methods of lethal self defense. Now its not that you can just up and learn a technique from text...but I could've tried to emulate some of that in a fight in school and done serious bodily harm.
I got smoked till I thought I'd caught fire. My ass was on the mat breathing so hard it hurt. I had my own pool of sweat going. That day I learned a little bit about discipline. My Sifu was the same way...he didn't abuse students, he taught *discipline* in the form of horse stances or other painful positions.
Striking a student...well I'm not a teacher but it served a purpose in Gung fu. I had a tendency to let guard down occasionally, and Sifu would let you know about it. Thats one thing...but abuse like that? The man who draws his sword frequently and without purpose, but to show that he has it and can, will sooner or later find someone that respects and cherishes their blade, and only draws it with absolute purpose to kill his opponent. I know who I'd bet on.

[Gryfen-FL]

67Fastback; I'm with you there.

Mom thought my Sensei was harsh at first. His way of teaching us not to leave punches hanging out in space was to wrap the offending limb up into an arm-bar, sit on me, and explain my mistake. please note the use of 1st person adjectives here Of course, to Mom observing off the mat, this was almost enough to make her go back out to the truck for her .357. Eventually she got over her over-protective horror because:

2 things evidenced themselves as a direct result.
1--I got 'decent' at rolling through arm-locks which had not been completely seated.
2--I quit leaving my damn arm hanging out there in space!

HOWEVER; neither profuse bleeding nor psychological scarring were involved. I learned that lesson quicker than I picked up “square root of (a-squared + b-squared)=c-squared”

[Jwells1978]

Ok...there's training realistically, where there's aggression and the punches aren't soft...then there's being mistreated- which is what that fat Phuck is doing. I don't care if he's a super neo blackbelt to the fifth degree in anything, he hits me with a stick or kicks me down for nothing, and I'm going to give him a nice warm knee to the junk. That's all there is to it. Phuck that shit.

[Hotmike]

LOL... kinda reminds me of the ROK martial arts training for all the guys that worked in the Joint Security Area (Panmunjom)...

The "Head Ninja" would mess you up if you gave him a chance... (hence, his students got really good at "not giving him a chance")

But, I'll agree that I wasn't impressed with Mr Buddah Belly one bit.

HK

[mara]

Not impressed with his "teaching stlye," particularly since the students don't get to hit back. Now if he were to strap on the gloves and invite the students into the ring so they could see what they're doing wrong, that's a different story. That dude did seem to have A LOT of students, though.

[Ranger002]

He would not last ten minutes with real students. The foundation of both the Gendai and Koryu Arts is RESPECT. For all life... for your Teacher...For your fellow students... and for the destructive power you are being taught. If any one of those four is not present in your Dojo then you need to move on.

William Hazen

[Snake]

He would not last ten minutes with real students. The foundation of both the Gendai and Koryu Arts is RESPECT. For all life... for your Teacher...For your fellow students... and for the destructive power you are being taught. If any one of those four is not present in your Dojo then you need to move on.

William Hazen

You know that and I know that, Bill. Thousands don't. These are the people who get mixed up with this kind of nonsense.

[USArmyTC]

If he hit me like that I'd make it my sole mission in life to kill his ass.
I definetly agree

[CREWSAFE]

Total B/S!

Exactly the reason I DO NOT teach traditional martial arts anymore. Senseis' get into a Hero-worship mentality from their students & the result is that anything goes.

RESPECT is a two way street. It must be shown to be earned. Another reason why the belt system gets blown out of proportion.