Sig P-226

[jihad]

I know all you guys love these Swiss guns, just looking for your Opinions on why this is such a great gun? Did any of you have troubles switching from a 1911/HK USP style control grips or do you prefer the SIG style contols? Do they make this gun in .40? Thanks Guys

[JY]

Hi jihad;

Myself, I prefer the de-cock location on the SIG, it falls under the thumb naturally and can be operated without shifting your grip. I use the USP Tactical .45 also, I like the weapon but prefer the SIG's de-cocking lever better. With the Tactical .45 you either have to use your support hand or move your grip hand to operate it, same with the 1911. If a can is mounted this shift can result in loss of a proper grip.

As to why I like it, the above plus it has never let me down , others have, but not the 226. I've carried one for years, it's on it's third Black T finish (4th finish counting the blue original) and put many thousands of rounds through it including the Hertinberg 100 gr CT rounds that are +P+ rated. I'll probably wear out before it will! I've seen some SEALs firing their 226's that look like an old car fender rusted through in spots and still ticking!

The SIG 226 is available in .357 SIG one of the best defensive rounds going today. .40 S&W is also available. With the 226 and 239 you can switch barrels from .357 SIG and .40 S&W with no problems as both use the same magazines and recoil springs, so you get two for the price of one and a barrel.

Take care...Jim

[Mountaineer]

JY, I can't believe a SEAL would let his piece rust thru like that, we can afford guns but not cleaning kits?(LOL). Seriously, though, was it a torture test or just due to salt water environments? I'm curious as I thought all spec-ops were super meticulous about clean weapons?

[MT]

Considering the numerous reports of cracked slides, it is a wonder so many use it. There have been no major failures so maybe it is no big deal, but when I found cracks in my slide after 3400 rounds that was the end of that. More then a few agencies prohibit use of high velocity ammo to reduce the risk.

[veil]

I only have (extensive) experience on the Glock17 and p226, so i cant compare the sig to others, but what made me choose for this piece of swiss steel is it's balance and grip. Somehow the p226 stays in my hand like it's glued to it, while the glock (probably because of the skinnier grip) allways feels a bit slippery. The austrian also kicks alot harder than the '226. I only shoot standard issue ball ammo, which is hot, but not +p+, and have never heard of, nor seen, cracking parts on both guns.

I do remember a guy who's UZI blew up on him though http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif If you dont clean that dinky-toy the cover flies off and hits you in the face http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

-Veil

[recce_o]

Veil,

Yes, the Glock is slippery. This problem can be solved by putting some skateboard tape on the grip (the kind that is adhesive on one side and like course sandpaper on the other). I find that this helps.

JY,

Since your reference Hertenberger's 100 gr +P+ I assume that you believe in the fast light bullets for the 9mm, rather than slow heavy ones? My understanding is that the high velocity 9mm expand prematurely in soft tissue, resulting in insufficient penetration. The heavier, slower bullets expand only after penetrating sufficiently and are better able to reach vital organs. What is your opinion?

[bd]

I'd have to agree with JY, the Sig controls are much more natural/earier to operate than HK. The 226 balances well in my hand. I also like it that the takedown lever makes field stripping a snap on the 226. They are superior firearms. Mine is good and broken in with thousands of rounds and still shoots like it just came out of the box. I have watched the guys with tricked-out 1911 race guns jam/misfeed/etc. when it get's cold/wet while my 226 keeps on running. I've never had a jam, misfeed, or any other malfunction. Like JY, I have experienced a few malfunctions with HK (although only a couple of times) and so I rely on the P226.

I prefer the 9mm variant to the .357 Sig/.40, but that's just a personal preference. Most Texas State LE agencies are moving towards the .357 Sig caliber now.

The *only* trouble I've ever seen with a 226 is with the Sig K-Kote finish chipping off. Although thats only a cosmetic thing.

JY,
You ever seen a 226 with the threaded barrel and supressor?

Take care and be safe.

BD

[jihad]

Well it looks like I have no choice but to pick one of these Swiss guns and give it a shot! Does the takedown lever push down or do you pull it out like on my HK? I've heard that when it came down to it in the Military trails the P-226 bested the Baretta but due to cost it wasn't chosen, is this true? Thanks

[JY]

Let me address each in order;

Mountaineer; Was part of a test with control weapons that went un- cleaned in a salt water(where you find SEALs 8) ) environment. Also had standard finish, not the Black T most use now. Black T is the best finish going now for high humidity, salt water, carry next to skin, and is self lubricating.

MT; The problem of cracking FRAMES not slides was addressed by SIG early on. The slides would crack above the de-cock lever when fed a diet of +P+, the answer was to remove that section of rails, the results affeted the pistol in no ways. This can be seen by the fact that the new plastik voonders only have 4 small points that the slide runs on. The section was rermoved only to eliminate the crack that in no way effected the safety or accuracy of the weapon, but caused concern amoung some users.

recce_0; The Hirtenberger 9mm 100 gr SP is capable of reasonable penetration, being a soft point instead of a HP it's meplat does not fill with tissue or clothing that causes the "ball" round effect seen in HPs. In most cases it will expand and penetrate enogh to get at the spine and medulla for an instant incapacitating shot. The high velocity and expanding bullet cause a greater hydrostatic shock and temporary cavity than a slow, heavy, solid bullet.

BD; Yup, seen and fired the '226 with the can. When used with the 147gr sub sonics it's a great piece.

jihad;The take down on the SIG is easy you lock the slide to the rear after magazine is removed, and rotate the take down lever down. Then just ease the slide forward and off the frame.

And yes cost was the big thing in the Beretta's adoption plus getting a manufacturing facility in the US at a reasonable cost. SIG now has a US plant that is turning out the slides for the 229 machined from solid stainless steel for extra weight in the compact .357SIG and .40S&W P229's.

Hope I answered all the questions, small book here 8) if not feel free to ask further. Take care...Jim

[veil]

Jim, give us some more about the sig with the can http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif Im interested in how the sig performs supressed...

-Veil

[bd]

jihad,

I think the cost difference in the Sig and Beretta contracts came out to be roughly $15.00 per gun. Not really a big deal until you buy tens of thousands, then it adds up.

If you go to get one, the 226 in 9mm is a little scarce right now, supposedly because Sig Arms is busy filling LE and Military contracts. A guy I work with just picked up a new one. Street price is around $700.00. They running expensive new, but used you can find them for around $500 for one in real good condition (your mileage may vary there).

Take care and be safe.

BD

[MT]

Howdy Jim,

Rereading my info does show that most were frame cracks (oops), but I do have reports of slide cracks and mine was most definitely a slide crack (radiating down and forward from the ejection port, measuring 6mm). This failure was in 95 with a pistol purchased new in 93. I have no doubt Sig has corrected the problems and have never had a problem with my beloved P220 or tolerated issue P228.

[reconsweden]

Irrelevant fact: The Swedish defence use Glock because the Sig can´t handle our military 9mm rounds. The police the Sig and they are going apart even though they don´t fire them much(Swedish police almost never use their weapons so they are lazy about training...) and I think they use the same ammo as the military.
Funny fact: Our military 9mm was what your police called cop-killers a couple of years back, apparently someone got hold of a box of it over there and the US police were a bit ticked of that it penetrated their vests that wore classified to stop 9mm.

[JY]

Hi MT;

Mine's a bit older than that and I haven't had that problem even firing the +P+ CT rounds through it on a regular basis. Anything that can happen will happen though, Mr Murphy makes sure of that.

A crack by the ejection port is unsual, was it by the ejector or forward where the barrel locks up? I don't know what the Swedes are trying to feed the P226 that is causing them to " going apart", sounds like SMG ammo or that old stuff for the Lahti/Gustav 9mm that needed SMG strength ammo =80 Heck we even fired the SIG under water with no problems, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME GUYS. This was done during a torture test for another Government agency, and included mud, sand, freezing the weapon and other things to test it's endurance. It was allowed to only shake the weapon to remove gorp before firing, and the SIG passed it with flying colors. Plus it was a lot of fun trying to break it!

Well I'll stick to my SIG, I have no desire to be armed with the GLOCK at anytime in the future, they say if you have nothing nice to say about something say nothing at all 8) take care of yourself MT...Jim

[jihad]

Thanks Bd, JY and everyone else. No doubt now it'll be my next purchase.

[PathfinderJr3325]

I like the Sig and the Glock both. I shoot 115 gr Corbon JHPs in all of my 9mms. Heavier 9mms penetrate, but don't stop. Look up Massad Ayoob (Lethal Force Institute) and see what he says.

[JGage]

Yes, if you have shot a 1911 for long periods of time and are used to it, you will have one problem with the 226 or any Sig for that matter- Your going to put your thumb where the safety is on a 1911, this presents a problem on the Sig's because the slide release is in the same area and your slide won't lock back because your riding it. I don't carry my 226, so it doesn't bother me, but you do have to pay attention if your going to carry it. Still love the 226 though.
The high bore-axis on Sig's is also a bit of a difference between the 1911 and Sig, H&K too.

[TLR]

what is the going rate for a Sig 226? I am seeing them for $700 including tax.

[bd]

TLR,

Yup, the going rate for the P226 brand new is about $700 (civvie street price, knock of a few 100 if you LE). You can find nice used 226's last I saw for about $500. Nothing wrong with getting a used 226. Most people who have them don't work them hard enough to wear them out any.

Take care and be safe.

BD

[RECON5]

I have to say BD your correct. There is nothing wrong with a used one, and dont let the fading blue scare you away as others mentioned earlier, that can be fixed.

JY - I did notice, and they left door wide open for you, and you still didn't do it. It's not personal preference here, Those test say it all for the sig.

Be Safe.

[bd]

Hey RECON5,

Yea, the 226 factory finish isn't as good as it could be. Especially when you're talking K-Kote. I hate that. It chips right off with only holster wear.

I just checked into getting my 226 refinished at Robar with their Rogard finish. It's an excellent finish that's similar to the Glock finish (which I do like). Only thing is, by the time you get everything done (stripping, finishing, re-truing the barrel), you're out nearly $400!

BD

[TLR]

I think you could save a few bucks if you went with the Black T finish by Mr. Birdsong. I had a pistol done and it came out really well.

I am down the street from Robar and have nothing against them. They are just a bit pricey.

------------------
TLR

[bd]

Hey TLR,

Do you have a phone number or any contact info for him? You're right about Robar being pricey...but the do good work.

Thanks.

BD

[TLR]

WE Birdsong & Associates
1435 Monterey Road
Flourence, MS 39073
(601)939-7448

He is a great guy and will talk your ear off.

------------------
TLR

[bd]

Thanks for the info TLR. I'll be giving him a call.

BD

[DAVE]

I have heard many good things about this gun, and am seriously thinking on purchasing one. But i am wondering if there is a caliber that shoots better in this weapon (9mm,40,357.....ect)? I already have a 45, so im not really looking for another one. But if anyone has any opinions feel free to let me know

Thanks DAVE