Beretta 92F/M9

[UH60fan]

Out of all the pistols I own, I love my Beretta 92F 9mm the most. But, I've heard that it breaks with SEAL's. Cops have changed to polymer Glocks, and it seems no body likes the Beretta 9mm. Well?

[Riley]

Berreta makes a good pistol. They've since fixed the cracking problem. The two main problems the SEAL's had were one, the NATO ammo is hotter than civilian and two, they were using them with a silencer and the pistol was not designed to handle the weight. I think PD's are going to Glocks more for ease of training with no safty or levers to work. Also, if you look, the trend is away from the 9mm and to the more powerfull .40S&W, .357 Sig and the old .45 ACP, which is my choice.

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Riley
Do it right, or not at all.

[RECON5]

Agreed. We had several folks that carried the Beretta 92F, and were happy with them. We were not training with the Nato ammo, but we did have several locking blocks break on us. They ordered several more from Beretta, who was familiar with this problem, and has corrected it, as that has not since been a problem. Most of those folks are still carrying the Beretta, but some have switched to the Glock for various reasons.

I have received the same info Riley posted about departments switching for semi-conversion, and training purposes. I would like to think it has nothing to do with the typically low training budget, and limited training time of most departments but.....

In my "Opinion" the Beretta is a good handgun, and if you choose to convert with the trends I believe they make a .40 caliber version, which is the 96. There was "rumor" of Beretta coming out with a .45 caliber handgun to keep up with the curve twords larger calibers. I am sure someone on this site can confirm or deny this information, and the available models and calibers.

Hope this helps, Be Safe..


[This message has been edited by RECON5 (edited 04-21-2000).]

[JS]

Beretta does have a .45ACP, but only in its Cougar 8000 series. Haven't fired one myself, just pulled this info off the Beretta web site.

The 92 ain't too bad. Nice, easily maintained pistol (at least that's what I think), but I don't know how it performs with some of the more powerful 9mill (e g the Swedish m/39B 9mm) ammo.

Btw, while talking about the .40S&W and the .357 SIG; How does these differ from the 9mm and the .45ACP when it comes to recoil, stopping power, and accuracy?

[Riley]

I'll try. There are two schools of thought when it comes to bullets. Some believe that a lighter bullet, .40S&W and .357 Sig,in the 150gr range at a faster speed of around 1300fps is better than the 230gr. .45 ACP at around 800fps. I'm not totally sure either is all that much better. I just like the idea of a heavier bullet so I shoot .45, which also has a longer history.

I know that studies have shown, and in my experience that at least in the Glock, the .45 is the most accurate. I think all can deliver 2" groups at 25m with ammo the pistol likes.

As for stopping power, when dealing with FMJ ammo, the .45 is generally superior as it has less tendency to over penetrate. If the round exits the body, a lot of power is lost. However, the three bigger calibers are better than the 9mm. The .357Sig is a .357(9mm) bullet in the .40 S&W case to try to provide .357 magnum ballistics in an auto pistol.
Naturally, the bigger cartridges will have more recoil than the 9mm is the same pistol. But the recoil is not enough that most people can't handle it. Even small statured police officers handle the larger rounds just fine, and feel more confident with them. In fact, many officers, when given the choice opted for something larger than 9mm.

I know the Texas Rangers and Border patrol use the .357 Sig. Many of the departments switching to Glocks or other models also went to bigger calibers. Now I've wrote a book, sorry. Hope this helps. Need more, email me directly.

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Riley
Do it right, or not at all.

[bd]

Hi UH60fan,

Yup, some older 92F's have had problems in the past (personal experience here with the locking block). But, it's still a fine pistol and the problems have all be addressed. If you have a newer 92F you probably don't have anything to worry about. I've fired the Cougar .45 as well. Not a bad feel to it (but I'll stick with my Sig).

As for caliber, 9mm is still perfectly fine. However, Riley's correct about overpenetration. A lot of LE agencies are trending toward the .40's though. One good thing about the .40 is that (at least on Sig's) you can simply interchange the .40 barrel with the .357Sig barrel and shoot either round out of the same weapon. Not sure on wether Glock is exactly the same, but RECON5 can clear that up.

Take care and be safe.

BD

[RECON5]

bd - Your correct, the Glock will do the same thing that the Sig will in the area of barrel exchange with the .40, and .357 models. Some people have even went as far as interchanging the magazines, but this is not recommeded as it can lead to feeding problems. I am aware of a ranking Texas Department of Public Safety - Narcotics Officer, who is also a DPS Fire Arms Instructor, who carries Glock model 22 with a .357sig barrel in it.

It is also true that the Texas Department of Public Safety has switched to the .357sig, and there Fire Arms Instructor's have nothing but praise for the round. Keep in mind they are the only Department that I am aware of that still qualifies with there handguns at 75yrds, but it shoots about point of aim point of impact at this distance. The Rangers that I know still carry the Colt 1911 in .45. (Although I dont know all of them in Texas) I dont know if its the tradition, or the for the reasons Riley mentioned earlier, but they take pride in thier Colt's.

Be Safe...

[G]

Used the South African version of the 92F as an issue weapon for years, it`s called the Z88. Very reliable, easy to maintain, fantastic double and single action trigger.

I personally don`t like slide mounted safeties etc...but other then that its a great gun.

[Riley]

One more thing about the 9mm. SpecOps have gone to the .45 as it is, in most loads, subsonic already, thus being just as effective whether silenced or not.



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Riley
Do it right, or not at all.

[Silent Fart]

Is the Berreta as accurate as a sig? I just sold my Glock 19 because I wasn't happy with it. I'm considering the 92f Custom Carry. Any info on the that pistol? I sold the Glock because it didn't measure up to my sig. Don't want to make the same mistake! Thanks

[RECON5]

Silent1 - I was told that one of Sig's big selling points was the inherint accuracy of the full lenght slide rails. I know they made some changes after the frame problems, but I never saw a change in the accuracy of my Sig. I am sure some of the Sig Officianados on this site can give you more specifics, but I would not hesitate to say Sig is one of the finer handguns available even though I carry a Glock for other reasons. I have also carried the Beretta, and it's a good weapon as well.

My .02 worth if the SIG worked for you, stick with it.

Remember 1*

[bd]

Silent-1,

Recon5's right about the Sig and the full length slide rail adding to accuracy by slide stabilization. Is the Beretta accurate? - yes, it is. I've not shot the custom carry 92 yet, but have heard it's on par with the regular 92. There's nothing wrong with them and they are a very well made weapon.

As far as what you should buy and what influences that... you need to use whatever is confortable to you. As long as you have a well-made pistol (be it Beretta, Sig, Glock, HK, etc). What you are comfortable and confident with is what you will shoot best. It's all about operator confidence. For instance, Recon5 and I shoot/train/compete together about once a month. He carries the Glock 17 and I carry a Sig P226. Sometimes he wins, sometimes I win. I'm comfortable with the Sig so it's what I depend on and shoot best (even though I do own a G17 as well). As I say, I'm sold on Sig's durability and the way it shoots for me (I know I've had my P226 in some nasty conditions and it's come out just fine). If you are sold on Sig, I'd recommend the P228 or P229 for a good compact.

Sorry for being long-winded. Take care and be safe.

BD

[RECON5]

BD - I can't believe you finally up it on an open forum, that you own a Glock.....I guess that is the end of being a closet Glock fan for you. heehee

[bd]

LOL.

[Mark Salvati]

Love the Beretta. No more real problems since the S upgrade to 92FS, we've had a couple hundred +P+ rounds thorugh one frame with no ill effects thus far.

On the caliber paradox I will say this. A good friend was in a shootout a few years back at a gun store he was working at. All the employee's carried 1911's loaded with FMJ's. One day a man decided to rob them for bullets, and no I am not joking. He was shot twice in the abdomin, with niether round hitting any vital organs, and both exiting through his back. I'm told though that he couldn't have fallen to the floor faster if he was hit on the head with a sledgehammer. The shock to the system delivered by the .45 ACP is unqestionable and instantaneous, but if he was wearing light body armor would the big slow 230grn round have had the energy to floor him like a .357 Sig or .40 S&W? Probably not, but life is full of compromises.

[Mac679]

call me crazy Mark ( aka courtjester ) a .45ACP will put you down at close range even with body armor from impact and blunt trauma alone.

Mac ( guess who )