Glock and elite units?

[B-52]

I think that "Glockmania" is mainly in law enforcement circles, because there isn`t much elite military units worldwide which uses Glock as their sidearm or am I wrong?

I suppose that Austrian, Norwegian and Swedish special ops use Glocks, are there any other military special ops Glock operators?

[veil]

The Dutch army issues the G17 to the Airmobile Infantry, the Special Forces ("green berets"), the marine SBS and BBE.

Also glock developed a taclight mount that clamps to the magazine of a G17/22 especially for the GSG9 so they obviously use them as well.

-Veil

[FNG]

The Argentinian CT team also uses Glocks.

[WS-G]

Which Argentine CT team? The PFA and Army both have CT units, and Brigada Halcón (Falcon Brigade) of Policía Bonaerense (Buenos Aires Provincial Police) devotes considerable time and effort to training for the CT mission.

------------------
ex Co. G (-)(Abn/Rgr), 143d INF(LRRP), TXARNG 1981-1985
ex 433MAW (AFRES), 1985-1991
FAA-certificated pilot and Advanced Ground Instructor

[FNG]

Brigada Halcon uses them...

[BG]

veil : You are correct, last I heard GSG-9 had indeed adopted GLOCK's, replacing their old HK P7's. Rifles are changing from the SIG SG 551-SWAT to the SG 552-Commando.

BG.

[veil]

BG, are they dropping their brand new SWAT's in favour of that sexy but worthless 552? Seems like a bad choice to me... They've got lots of small Mp5's for entry, let em stick to the 551 for perimeter security...

-Veil

[BG]

veil : *L!* I'd take the SG 552 over an HK MP-5 myself. Time will tell which weapons they prefer to deploy I guess. When I make it out to Germany in November to visit another LEO, will ask around and see if we can get some first-hand information - perhaps get some feedback on the "sexy but useless" SG 552 as well.

[Repp]

Hey BG !

You are coming to Germany? Where?
The GSG - 9 still uses the P7 I think, I know they have Glocks, but the P7 shoots much more accurate.(Naturally, it's German!)

[veil]

BG, dont get me wrong - the 552 is an excellent weapon. I just have my doubts when it comes to the performance of the 5,56mm from an extremely short barrel.

The 5,56mm obviously does not reach its optimal speed from a barrel under 20cm long, and accuracy and range wont be too impressive either. So does it have any combat advantages over a 9mm subgun?

With the 551 you have a slightly larger but still CQB-managable weapon that will put accurate and lethal fire down at 300m range. It seems like a better choice than the 552 which would be so-so in entry and not better than a subgun at longer ranges.

-Veil

[BG]

Repp : I'll be in the US in October, and in Germany sometime in early November. The P-7 is a good firearm without question, but the operating system isn't my favourite - I'd rather have an HK USP, but then I'd take a GLOCK and SIG as well! http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif European firearms are once again the best, which is good - it will create additional global competition. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

veil : I understand exactly where you are coming from. Hopefully I can give you a hands-on report back on the 552 in the coming months. I'd like to see how it stacks up against the HK-53. I'm hoping that the HK UMP-series will eventually be made for the .223/5.56mm as well. The 551-SWAT and the Colt M-4 are without doubt my favourite rifles for medium ranges. I use the select-fire R-5 at the moment on-duty, and would therefore prefer a size closer to the MP-5 with a .223/5.56mm caliber, hence the purchase of a SIG SG-552 (SP) Commando (for CQC ranges).
Stay safe mate, Good to hear from you!

[slowpulseboy]

I doubt that the UMP series will ever be offered in .223, as H&K have already created a new SMG-size weapon based on the G36 called the G36C. The G36C is to the G36K what the SIG 552 is to the 551, an extra-short entry weapon version. For more info check out:
http://www.hkpro.com/g36c.htm

[veil]

Im still really interested in how guns like the G36C, 552, Micro Galil etc... ballistically perform in the field. They didnt make the M4 barrel 14,5" for the heck of it...

Maybe someone with experience on these little snortguns can join in? (i dont dare to say it, but...JY? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif)

-Veil

P.s. BG, i'd take a 552 over an R5 any day, those galil-variants are heavy to lug around.

[BG]

slowpulseboy : I wasn't aware of the G36C yet, but that sounds good to me - thanks for the link, will have a look. I'm sure we'll see the new variant represented at IDEX 2001 in Abu Dhabi. Looking forward to that once again - I'd just like to get on that 25km range this time around.

veil : Too true, it's a right b*tch when you have a Level-III ballistic vest and goodies, and an R-5 to lug around when pursuing suspects over walls and through large fields! *L!* Good fun - in retrospect of course. I have never had a problem with an R-5 to date, but those at the unit are rusting, seems no-one has seen the need to maintain the damn things, we must have about 40 in the armoury (additionally, all the R-5's in excellent condition have found their way into the Highway Patrols armoury). Yet another reason for a personal 552, I'd like to maintain my own - I need to know that it is going to perform without question (the units R-5's are no longer in that category).

[veil]

BG, couldn't agree with you more. For the same reasons we stopped (on a squad level) issueing the MAG as a "group support weapon" and just sacked one guy with it and said "this is your weapon". Its the communism-problem : when something belongs to everyone, it belongs to noone. Now the MAG's are cared for like little babies http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

Take are mate,

-Veil

[Chris]

In reguards to the mention of the 14.5 inche barrel used on the M-4,this was the shortest Colt found they could go and still keep the weapon reliable,it had little to do with them wanting better ballistics,and all about reliable functioning,the short 10 and 11.5 look cool,and if they were reliable,Colt would still push them ,fact is they were found lacking in reliability.
So 14.5 is the go for proper function.

[BG]

Chris :

So the Colt Commando won't be that reliable? Hmmmmm.

I'll let you know how the reliability goes in the SIG 552, once I get back from the US. The SIG arrives in country next week, that would be a week after I leave for the US (this Friday), so I'll have to wait until after the 18th November when I get home. Got to give me a reason to come home I guess! *LOL!*

At least it will find a nice home in the safe until I get here.

BG.

[Farquer,Robert,F]

Do any of those Units issue th G18? I know a officer whose swat team owns a couple, he carries it sometimes. He let me try it out at the range, fun but kinda impraticle.

[Tuukka]

I work in a weapon firm here in Finland and we ordered 552 s but they couldnt deliver(from Holland) them because of reliability problems at least on the first manufactured series.

[Mac679]

on the subject of the 10" & 11.5" barrels on the CAR15 and the 14.5" barrel on the M4, reliability had something to do with the decision but I remember reading another reason. The flash surpressor on the short barreled CAR15s was also a sound surpressor/moderator that dropped the roar of the short barrel by a few decibels. Colt didn't want the hassle with the BATF about manufacturing the surpressor/moderator that would inevitably come. Somewhere around here I've got the article I read that in.
All Good Medicine,
Mac

[veil]

Tuukka, did you work with JFY Maarssen or another dealer?

-Veil

[D.E. Watters]

Originally posted by Mac679:
The flash surpressor on the short barreled CAR15s was also a sound surpressor/moderator that dropped the roar of the short barrel by a few decibels. Colt didn't want the hassle with the BATF about manufacturing the surpressor/moderator that would inevitably come.

The BATF indeed ruled that the XM177E2's flash hider was legally a sound suppressor; however, this wasn't the sole problem. Around the same time, the Carter Administration came up with a policy banning the export sale of sound suppressors. Thus, any potential overseas markets for a XM177E2-variant were blocked if Colt used the same flash hider/blast moderator.

The reliability issues with the XM177E2 seem to have centered around gas port pressure and the buffer. The combo blast moderator/flash hider also added its own problems related to accuracy and fouling.