How to become an IC in the international PSD/FP business.

[Silverbullet]

This thread is for the discussion of:

- entry level requirements (experience/skill sets)

-working internationally

-how to network/apply for positions

-career progression/professional development

It is not for:

-asking for work

-argueing over which company is better than the other

-discussion about suit and tie EP work

If you have not worked abroad in PSD/Force Protection or a high level training gig, you should only be asking questions.

All experienced members of this site are free to post information

[SOTB]

Cool thread. Let me be one of the first to break it in.

For those looking to break out of the "box" (sandbox), I suggest realizing that in MOST places where you will pick up a truly civvie gig -- you won't be armed. You won't have QRFs. You won't have armor (neither personal or vehicular). You won't even have multiple cars for your movements. You WILL have your brain.

I am currently in an amusing situation where previous/current thought patterns of my predecessors, were that you could not perform PSD without "X" number of vehicles, people, and of course -- guns. That type of thinking is not only WRONG, but indicative of the knuckle-dragging saturation of the current PSD market.

Not all of your clients can or are willing to pay for 6 heavily-armed guys to take them to a bank meeting in a shithole city where firefights are more than an occasional event or where 5-star restaurants are often the site of violent crime (ie, walk up to the table and demand money/Rolex -- shoot if uncooperative).

If you can't get comfortable with the idea of being able to move your client through these situations without his ever being caught up in those problems -- and doing this without a little bird hovering above you, then truthfully, I don't see you being able to grow out of working the gigs where the highest priority is what color you can get the newest M4 mag pouches....

[Tactical Keld]

I will give my thoughts as Im a Non-US Non-SOF type thats made it into the PSD business in Iraq.

When I found out what I wanted to do with my life after the military, I started researching and planning what I needed to bring to the table if I was going to make it into the business and hit the ground running.

I think the foundation for a good PSD type is a long solid military background with several operational deployments.
Now dont get me wrong, Im not saying that cops arent suited for it, but military types thats been deployed around the world a couple of times, deal better with lower living standards and amenities than civy types in my humble opinion.
Hey we are used to a foxhole and a poncho. Now we got a cramped three bed trailer, cool...:D
But I've met bad PSD types that was ex-military, and good PSD types that was ex-cops, so maybe my reasoning on this isnt worth anything after all.

On with it: In my humble opinion, with a long solid military background comes maturity. Being able to function calmly in pressured situations, not freaking out and being out of your element. Professionalism.

Then there are the protective service aspects of the job.
Know and be proficient in Close Protection TTP's.
You must be able to drive cars defensively and offensively.
Shoot pretty damn good with all weapons you are handed.
Know and be proficient in Tactical Casualty Combat Care.

Now, if you like me, havent spent any time in a military unit, that has been tasked with providing protective services, other than convoy escort and the occasional outer perimeter on a VIP visit, then you need to take some training in some of these subjects. This is not the job or environment, where you should go in blind and get your knowledge from on the job training. You need to be proficient at the basic principles when you touch down at BIAP.

So, I went to the US and took a couple of courses involving driving techniques and Close Protection, among other things.
I went to the US, because it was my impression that mostly US companies were involved with the contracting side, so training by US standards was a sound idea, so the recruiters had a working knowledge of what I had learnt and was able to put me in a box with others. So basically moving away from being an unknown variable to a more familiar one.

Now, I like to think those courses gave me the knowledge I needed to do the job on an entry level. But that isnt enough if you also want to get a job.
There are plenty of capable people out there that have the relevant training and skills, but cant get a job because they dont know anyone.
Networking is proberbly the most important aspect of landing your jobs.
I know of noone that has done a CV shotgunning that has landed a job. They all knew someone. So networking is very important and that leads me back to the courses for this field of work.
The courses will give you the knowledge to do the job, the other people on the course that you meet and network with are the people that will hopefully give you a job (Unless you are attending a decidedly selection course)
At one of the course I did, I met some people and apparently I didnt make to much of an ass out of myself, so when I was applying for my first gig, the recruiter knew one of the guys I trained with, and asked him if I was ok or not. Long story short, I got hired and was underway within a week.
I got my first job, because I networked on the courses, and that payed off.

Now my first gig was a fucked up gig, too much to go into, but I kept out of the infighting that went on and just did my job and I like to think acted maturely and professionally and when an opportunity came to go to a better company with better pay, I went for it.

After a while that gig ran dry and I got onto my third company (Where I am now, and hopefully will be for a very long time) by networking too.
Actually the guy that got me in here, met me once....The same day I was told, I was being put on a plane, the day after.
I met him before I got that message, but told him afterwards that I just lost my job. He got me in touch with his PM and I got hired as an emergency replacement for a guy that just left, initially for 5 weeks. After a couple of weeks I was asked if I wanted to stay permanently and since its a good company and Im with good people and the pay is pretty good too, I said "Ahh...Let me think about it....Hell, yeah!" :D


Some other points: In this business I have met an astounding number of people who just wait for an opportunity to backstab everyone else, just to make themselves look good or get to a higher position (More money).
Dont be like those people. Hey man, Im just happy to be here at all....Be professional, do your job, dont kiss ass, dont lie and talk shit about other people, be proficient at what you do, seek out more knowledge to become better, listen and learn.
Now these are all things to do when you got your first job, to get your foot in the door for the first job....Network!

Well, thats my point of view.

[Xdeth]

Jobs are at all time peak overseas right now, pay has stablized and contracts are becoming larger and less frequent. Never been a better time to get hired, and to get hired by companies that have some established reputations and people working for them.

Look for:
Prior training courses that derive their foundation from or are directly written according to Department of State standards, it's kind of like a basic training if you will, there are a ton of TTP's and variations on these themes but that's a good baseline, and very marketable. Some busniesses offer training with their employment package, some expect you to have it already. In either case you should only be looking at employers that offer some level of training consistent with the job type prior to deployment, even experienced people requrie hooah training to stay current and get prepared.

Come with:
Basic military knowledge and planning skills are helpful, you can get those from a variety of military jobs or certain law enforcement assignments. Be prepared for an evaluation, physical, academic, phychological, anyone not asking prospects to meet requirements in those areas is not screening well. Have all your financial history and immediate needs squared away, getting paid should not be the first thing on your mind. Have a very good idea about your employer, history, personnel, recent contracts.

Avoid:
Private industry, now is not the time to be working on non-government contracts, get a security clearance, get around the government agencies, make contacts that can serve you down the road when the peace craze comes back around. Avoid need people tomorrow type situations, chances are very good it's a goatfuck.

Resumes are muy important, they should be one page and squentially organized, not full of every little thing you did or training your recieved, jsut an outline of your history, job titles, and major skills. Resumes should be tailored to the job your applying for, use the same key words as the job soliciation, be honest on them. Create a seperate document, lets call it a bio, in that put all your schooling, trainings, and descriptive job information, also suqentially listed. You'll be asked to submit that info in some form or another if you get to the hiring stage or past that. Spell and grammer check it all too.

[ExSquid]

I sent Silverbullet a PM the other day urging him to create this sticky because of the repetative nature of some of the questions asked here.

Here is my $.02. PSD does not require a SOF background or combat experience. Having a SOF background and combat experience certainly helps but they are not necessities. If you have a solid combat arms background, are mature, level headed, and humble enough to admit what you do and do not know, than you have what it takes to get a job. If you want a job than go out and make one happen.

Good luck.

x/S

[Sniper111]

Well since everyone is jumping on the PSD side, let me expound on the FP side-

Networking is about the most important part of getting an FP gig, since all the PSD/EP schools don't REALLY apply. Get ahold of a POC list from someone on here, and not only email your resume/CV/bio but invest the two or three bucks in a telephone call.

As redundant as it sounds, follow this forum. I got a prior gig for FP through a PM on here. In addition take the advice of the long-term members. They have not only BTDT but most likely wrote the POI. I am NOT a BTDT, just a gifted amateur.

The skill sets for FP are a LOT different than PSD. I'm a sniper (duh) and that skill set does not readily translate into PSD, unless it's countersurveillance from the FBO. My experience is skills like management, instructional ability and investigation take precedence over driving and CP. In addition, if you have the HSLD PSD courses, you will be bored senseless doing FP. You're in jail when you think about it. Huge compound surrounded by 12 foot walls with concertina, towers manned by dudes with guns, you can't go outside and everyone inside is male (without the tossing salad thing, unless you're a Haji).

I have noticed that physical fitness is also not stressed to the degree it is for PSD, and while I disagree with it I see the reason for it. Chances are you won't be doing an E&E through downtown Latifiyah on foot. This can serve to get you in shape on site though if you are motivated enough.

Former military experience is a major plus, but usually not required. Not for the reasons associated with PSD it seems though. FP is usually boring with intermittent moments of excitement. The occasional mortar or drive-by is about all that has happened to me in the past year. Conditions are usually decent, especially on longer term projects. Not the Hilton but liveable. My experience is cops tend to whine more about living in a caravan or intermittent internet access or piss poor food. A well placed comment here and there is one thing, as is griping amongst your team- but management gets tired (read you get sent home) if you pester them daily with trivial shit. Gives us cops a bad name in general too.

VBIEDs and suicide vests are a threat if you're working access control, so this is where cops tend to shine over the military types (and don't flame my ass for that). Cops are better attuned to look for bulges, bumps and protrusions in clothing than military types. We deal with it 12 hours a day for years. We're the guys who notice the .32 pocket auto in winter under a parka from across the street, it's just second nature to us. Same with vehicle searches- we're used to disassembling cars roadside looking for dope.

Have a good command of the English language. FP is ALL about report writing. Whether it is the block of instruction you just gave, or the Opel that cruised your front gate 6 times today, you need to get your words in order for the people in echelons beyond reality to read. Can't stress this enough- 70% of the time I was rewriting other guys reports before kicking them upstairs. A lot of bosses will see this as a lack of intelligence or intellect.

FP is also a great place to begin your career. If you don't step on your dick, if you act in a mature fashion, don't backstab your buddies and show skills in improvisation and unconventional non-linear thinking, chances are you will move up the ladder. I went from an OP sitter to a shift supervisor in 3 months with instructional duties thrown in. Also pick your colleagues brains at every opportunity. There are CENTURIES worth of experience at a typical site. Utilize these resources to expand your own knowledge base.

Now I am doing PSD in Haiti naked, no guns, no armor and just my brain. I didn't have all the HSLD top dollar courses. I got on this gig because I pulled someones ass out of the fire a LONG time ago on my first gig, showed intelligence and adaptability, had a modicum of common sense and stayed in contact. When you make friends, on here, on your first gig, wherever, keep in contact. A few minutes of your time a few times a week might land you your next gig, because you are fresh in someone's mind.

Now when I am done with this gig, I will invest in some PSD and UXO/EOD courses to expand my base of knowledge and my job opportunities. I started at the very bottom of the food chain and managed to climb a rung or two. I learned PSD on my last gig by pestering a long time PSD guy who was sitting doing FP until the next great thing came along. I'm no expert but I have the basics and a good brain. And when it comes down to it- thats about all you need.

[PSD_Hopeful]

So far I've found some great info here regarding getting into the industry, starting with the thread about requirements.

Now what I'm asking is for a more detailed description of how a resume should look. I beleive my Base Personell Selection Office would be more than able to help me write up a resume for applying to McDonalds but I'm sure there are specifics for this type of job.

Thanks for your time

[RB]

PM me for a company name list and email addresses for 40 PSD/Security companies here in the box. Some reputable, some not so...

[JollygreenFE]

For those who may not have an SF, DevGrp, PJ type background can someone please post the Tier Levels with appropriate qualifications to meet that level here. I found a list a few months ago but cant seem to find it again. Thanks!

[thatkindasux]

Everytime i stop by for a few minutes im amazed at the wealth of knowledge most of you share with this community. This is truely a great resource in my humble opinion..

[Phil306]

Resume question. Without violating Persec/Opsec, etc. Is it possible for somone to black out their details and post a copy of their resume? I am really looking to see what a good one looks like.

[Argyll 50]

One thing I'd comment on is the Tier system,don't get too hung up on it,it's only relevant to certain individuals......I know lots of guys who've been out of the military for a long time(including me!) and I am quite able to hold my own in terms of tactics,driving and shooting compared to some blokes discharged from the Services in the last 12 months or so!

I've been in a managerial position outside of CP work,and know how to converse with people higher and lower than me,something the fresh ex Military are not that good at eg. former Sgt Maj's (UK)who talk to everyone like recruits and subordinates,wrong attitude in CP work!!,having worked for other industries,it helps to know what drives them......ie $$$$$$$,another thing the fresh squaddie will not understand quite as much.

The only teir system I work on is the movie which makes me well up the most!

[Silverbullet]

Getting work is not as hard as some seem to make it out to be. This post is not directed to anyone. It is general in nature in an attempt to educate and inform.

If a company asks for money to place you in a job, either up front or after the job is secured, they are probably scamming you. There’s nothing illegal about what they are doing but they are probably also being paid by a company to assist in the recruiting. All job info is open source. If it isn’t, then it only recruits via word of mouth and paying someone won’t help you get your foot in that door.

Paying a company to run you through a “selection” is usually the same as throwing your money down the toilet. I’d estimate only 5% of those that go this route ever get the promised follow on employment. If you have a good tactical background just apply since all the larger companies provide a train up. You get paid while attending training. That’s a win- win situation.

WPPS is not the low life program some on the net try and portray it to be. Only those with a well rounded SOF career or those that have been fired from the program should turn their nose up at it. If you want to get your foot in the door, WPPS one of the best routes to take. It will give you good training and some creds that will stay with you for the rest of your life. It’s not the be all, end all and there are better programs out there but it is GTG for the guy starting out. The better programs will look at you more favorably after you have the WPPS experience, if you aren’t former SOF

Don’t bitch about what the job description states. It’s not the employer’s responsibility to make a job fit you. It’s your responsibility to fit the job. You don’t like the way the job is laid out, start your own company, win a contract and then write whatever job description you want. Otherwise shut up and either submit for the job or move on.

Apply to more than one company at a time. That’s how it’s done in other industries.

Contrary to a few internet business experts, there are not less jobs out there, now. The jobs are just consolidated in less company’s.

If a guy has no military background and spent a yr in Iraq, he is not qualified to run a training course. This is especially true if he spent most of his time in the IZ glad handing people vice conducting movements longer than to and from BIAP from the IZ. He may be an assistant instructor but not the lead. This should be self evident, but I see guys throwing money at shoot them up courses daily started by guys with questionable creds.. Spend your money on something that has some real value. If your focus after receiving your initial training is not on planning, planning and planning, then you’re going no where fast. Get good at route surveys, advances, vulnerability assessments, etc… Get formal driver training.

Finally, the jobs are out there. In the last 6 months I’ve not seen anyone with a credible CV not get work if they apply tot the right company. If you're one of those that is waiting for the “just right” job to come along, then you’ll stay unemployed.

[yojinbukai]

This is a great thread. I would like to add a few thing.

This isn't the military. If you were Tier 1, 3 years ago, you aren't now. If you were an 11 series 10 years ago, you aren't now.

What you are, however, is someone who is paid to stand in harm's way and place yourself between the danger and your client. If you aren't ready to take one for the client, take another serious look at this line of work.

EP work in general will be just like police work in that %98 will be boring and require an effort to avoid complacency. %2 will be pure adrenalin and you had better know how to let your conscious and subconscious minds work together. By that I mean have enough training with proper trigger and response drills to make your responses instinctive. All your training should be heavily documented from a reputable trainer, and any firearms training should include use of force decision making.

The Iraq and Afghanistan work won't be there forever. Develop a skill set and be the best at it. Your reputation will speak volumes about you and people will want to know who you have worked with / for and who you have protected. Most of what you'll find outside the non / semi permissive environmnets is one to three guys and girls walking a small box on a suit. You'll need a suit too. Working in Europe will be unarmed, and I understand that batons are jail worthy in most countries. You should have some sound training in defensive tactics, PPCT, or a reality based martial art such as Ju-Jitsu mixed with a bit of Kenpo. Tae Kwon Do is flashy but it doesn't prepare you for the out of breath, fight for your life mentality that you'll likely need.

[Silverbullet]

Some observations.

If you are going for a job, write the CV to fit the job. Sounds common sense, but I've been looking at CV's that list yrs of instructor duty that are looking for an operational job. If most of your work experience is as an instructor, you aren't getting a job working PSD. Stress you operation experience, if you have it, and add your instructor certs in under qualifications or whatever you call it on your CV.

If you've been working as a bank clerk, or whatever, for the last 10 yrs, you don't usually have relevent operational exerience that will jump you to the head of the line. Unless you've been a reservist and deployed since your discharge it doesn't matter what you used to be when you compete againist guys with current experience.

Finally no one owes you a job just because you want it.

[Slammer445]

Hey guys I'm new to this website so I'll make it brief. I just applied for a job at SOC-SMG and have no contracting experience.

I spent 5 years active as a field MP mainly living in the desert running convoy ops and scout work. Spent 4 years in the reserves as a CID agent and went to the Army PSD school and did one travel mission with Dep Sec Def.

I have been a police officer for over four years and I've been on our SWAT team for over a year (Slammer/Entry).

I have no Spec Ops experience although I have trained with them a time or two in my civilian job. Are Cops recieved well in the contracting field??? I'm a quiet professional that is looking to get out of debt. I have combed this website and found there is a s#$% load of professionals that have made some really good posts so I figured this would be a good place to ask a question. I don't have thin skin so honesty would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your time.

A.E.S.

[backblast]

slammer445, welcome, im new here myself, so many professionals on here, great to listen to them...I am also a police officer, have worked for soc-smg since oct 05 until may 06...I had to take the hdsoc course first, didn't guarantee work, but put me in the field....you'll probably have to do the same...but when they need people for a gig right after katrina, they called and I put in for a leave of absence...on reserve now with pd, and did a short contract with soc in iraq...their a good company, great guys, some of them....best of luck...ps keep picking these guys brains, i know i will.

[RAT]

Let me say this.

IMHO...

If you are wanting to do this job to get "Out of Debit" you are doing it for the wrong reasons. You must want to do the job because it is something you want to do. Meaning such.

People who get involved with this business don't know that this can be really nasty and dirty business.

Some facts:

Companies will leave you out in the wind.

The bottom line counts. It is business, not the LEO area or the military or GOV job. You are a number alive or dead just a number. Companies and clients will try and make you do some dumb shit. Do NOT do it.

Most companies do not insure you. (DBA does not count. DBA is workers comp. You must know the laws of your state about that. Meaning that most compaines will have you sigin the contract of the State they are located and that states workers comp may not cover what you just might need to get better)

A good CPA wil cost you to figure out how to keep the gov from grabbing the money you have made.

The contract can end at anytime.

You can get fired at anytime.

You might have to E&E on your own. (Better have a lot of cash stashed to pay people off to get out alive.)

* This is one of the most imporatant things you have to remember... Going overseas to a hostial area to get out of debt will make you do dumb shit. You will take chances that put you and your team at risk. You do not want to do that. Remember the boys hung from the bridge. Know what you are getting into.

Again, these are some of my thoughts.

Good luck to you and hope you do well. Stay locked on.


RAT OUT!!!

[Slammer445]

Thanks for the heads up RAT, and I'll take that information to heart. Getting out of debit is not the sole purpose for going over, but I see your point. I have two friends that are working over seas and I pick there brains religiously on a regular occasion to make sure this is something I want to get in to. I know there are many aspects of working in Iraq and abroad to include danger and ugly working enviroments. I've been busy doing lots of homework to make sure I know what I'm getting into.

[Massgrunt]

Most people want to get in to debit. :D

[Argyll 50]

Good there RAT,so many new guys think they're owed something, when the arse falls out the contract,some of my team here think that 6 weeks in the Basra area makes them qualified to "kick the tyres and light the fires " in Baghdad,and talk about how they're going to Triple Canopy etc..........fucking dream on geezers,especially if it's your first gig.

Too many guys also think that because they have some eductaion behind them,that they're going to influence the way a team and a contract is run......if it's your first gig, you should be the grey man, listening and heeding what the old sweats are telling them.....not gobbing off, and saying this is how we did it in the Corp, or in the Army....
I'm noticing that the age is getting lower, the young pups think they know best......and are ignoring the wise old men.....
I'm not the be all and end all of Contractors,hell I've not been doing this long(into my 3rd year) compared to some others, but I've run Route Irish during the crazy years,where the only distinction of whether it was sweat or shit coming out your arse was the difference in texture!

I'm still learning,and will always strive to make me a better Operator, I listened to advice, and the constructive criticism when it came....I took it on the chin, and adapted, some of the new guys on the block don't seem to listen, they have an air of arrogance about them.....

Know your place.......don't mouth off to guys who've been in the badlands,when asked for an opinion keep it short,if it's valid, it'll be taken on board.......if you get shot down in flames develop a thick skin........

[tboy]

Good there RAT,so many new guys think they're owed something, when the arse falls out the contract,some of my team here think that 6 weeks in the Basra area makes them qualified to "kick the tyres and light the fires " in Baghdad,and talk about how they're going to Triple Canopy etc..........fucking dream on geezers,especially if it's your first gig.

Too many guys also think that because they have some eductaion behind them,that they're going to influence the way a team and a contract is run......if it's your first gig, you should be the grey man, listening and heeding what the old sweats are telling them.....not gobbing off, and saying this is how we did it in the Corp, or in the Army....
I'm noticing that the age is getting lower, the young pups think they know best......and are ignoring the wise old men.....
I'm not the be all and end all of Contractors,hell I've not been doing this long(into my 3rd year) compared to some others, but I've run Route Irish during the crazy years,where the only distinction of whether it was sweat or shit coming out your arse was the difference in texture!

I'm still learning,and will always strive to make me a better Operator, I listened to advice, and the constructive criticism when it came....I took it on the chin, and adapted, some of the new guys on the block don't seem to listen, they have an air of arrogance about them.....

Know your place.......don't mouth off to guys who've been in the badlands,when asked for an opinion keep it short,if it's valid, it'll be taken on board.......if you get shot down in flames develop a thick skin........

Great piece of advice Argyll. So many guys do comeover here and all off a sudden think they are special operators and know it all. If you come here with an open mind and be prepared to learn from everyone the opportunities are endless.

[jdatbs]

Well, this has been a very interesting read. Lots of talent here. Good. I'm looking for someone's opinion. I'm going to set down my background, and see if anyone can tell me whether I am suited for any type of work in the ME.
I was a civilian police officer for 10 years. Detective for 7 of those 10. Then, I ran a private detective business in a large city. Investigations, courier service, bodyguard work, missing persons, background investigations, some bounty hunting, etc. A little bit of everything. Did that for about 8 years. Then, went to law school and went to work as a prosecutor. Been doing that for about 15 years. Work very closely with my police agencies...perform a moderate amount of police training, participate in investigations, supervise and/or direct investigations from time to time, consult with police agencies on difficult cases. I have maintained an "expert" rating with both 9mm and .357. Trained with heavy weapons and a variety of martial arts people but I like Tim Larkin's Target Focus Training the best.

Is there a job out there for me? I'm bored, and I'm pissed at every damned Islamic extremist that thinks hiding in the dirt and blowing up our kids is his holy obligation, and I want to DO something....
Thanks!

[Argyll 50]

If you come looking for trigger time against Islamic extremists , then the Close Protection business isn't for you mate, the idea of PSD is NOT to get into a firefight, the Security Industry is a defensive one, not an offensive one.

If you want trigger time and a challenge try the 19th and 20th Groups mate, they sound more in line with what you are seeking.

[jdatbs]

Thanks. I think the last part of my post was a little misleading. When I said "I want to DO something," I meant that I want to make a personal contribution to the effort. But I believe in letting the military doing the shooting. I'm just as comfortable with an unarmed position as I am with an armed one, and if I had my pick I'd say I'd like to be doing investigations.

[Sniper111]

jdatbs;

From reading your posting, I would suggest applying with Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR). They typically hire civvy LEOs for investigative positions, both looking into mismanagement/graft and for vetting TCN workers.

It is an unarmed position, but you get to stay in the rear with the gear and the beer, and pays pretty well also. I have a few friends that got on with them off of other gigs and they enjoy their jobs. It's not all HSLD, but does get you in country and drawing good pay.

[OZEbullfighter]

In the private contracting industry (international), what sort of rear support do you have if say your boots blow a tread or some part of your gear malfunctions.

Also is most of your tech gear supplied or do your source yourself. IE, GPS, NODS, Scopes, ..

then how much down time do you get when on contract to be able to work on things such as re-adjusting kit for fitting, re zeroing weopn after something going wrong, a bit of fitness training. Even just time to handle weapon, and find out all the little personal things about it...

Regards OZEbullfighter

[Massgrunt]

Honestly man, I don't think there's one right answer for that question. Situation and company dependent.

[basschild]

Quick question for you guys, I am an X army infantryman and I was looking into going into psd work. I had a chance to talk with some BW guys when I was actually doing PSD work for the mayor of Najaf and I was wondering what you guys would suggest as a good launch point? Should I start putting out resumes to companies or head back into training? Basically I am just looking for a bit of advice on where to start out and any help would be a great help.

[rockriver]

This is to all. I have no training and the army discharged me for asthma. this condition does not affect me but back in 1992 with the cut backs they would not give me a waiver for it. This is something I have been looking at for some time now but can't seem to find the courses to take. I have been an over the road truck driver for 10 years now and I'm still in good shape, 6 ft and weigh 155 lbs. I was wondering if anyone could help me in finding the names for the training I may need.

thanks

[Gwedo]

No matter how long you have been in the business, forging a career as an independent contracting is about your reputation, how well you Network and what that Network says about you both professionally and personally. Learn how to network and learn how to maintain your network.
There are a number of professional private security associations which will assist you. Two of my recommendations are ASIS International and the Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP). Both have local chapters world wide that help to keep you in the industry "Loop."
Last, when you attend training for XYZ corporation try and maintain that little list which everyone promises to stay in touch from. You never know when you may be doing an advance package in Galveston, TX.

I hope this helps out,

Gwedo

[The91Bravo]

Here is a situation I found myself in but without an answer to guide me.

On the IC, I didnt want to do the PSD, I filled out a resume and app for the construction and engineering part of one of the 'prominent' and 'in the news all the time' companies. (without saying the obvious) Since their website stated actual need for those slots, not just accepting apps.

I am a licensed residential building contractor, former EFMB Medic, and fairly educated in all aspects of building (wiring framing plumbing HVAC framing estimating buying managing). I just wanted to build.

I applied, and of course, no reply other than ' we got it '

I honestly thought I had a fair shot, but must not have.

QUESTION:
Does anyone know what the Contracting companies are looking for in regards to their construction contractor applicants?

[RAT]

QUESTION:
Does anyone know what the Contracting companies are looking for in regards to their construction contractor applicants?

From what I know on that side here in Houston. SNC had a lot of IC's already on the pay roll. They used them 1st from what I understand.

RAT OUT!!!

[rmediver2002]

Here is a situation I found myself in but without an answer to guide me.

On the IC, I didnt want to do the PSD, I filled out a resume and app for the construction and engineering part of one of the 'prominent' and 'in the news all the time' companies. (without saying the obvious) Since their website stated actual need for those slots, not just accepting apps.

I am a licensed residential building contractor, former EFMB Medic, and fairly educated in all aspects of building (wiring framing plumbing HVAC framing estimating buying managing). I just wanted to build.

I applied, and of course, no reply other than ' we got it '

I honestly thought I had a fair shot, but must not have.



QUESTION:
Does anyone know what the Contracting companies are looking for in regards to their construction contractor applicants?

On a similar subject to this, is anyone familiar with any operations sub-contracting or providing commercial diving services?

[ktek01]

I'm not the be all and end all of Contractors,hell I've not been doing this long(into my 3rd year) compared to some others, but I've run Route Irish during the crazy years,where the only distinction of whether it was sweat or shit coming out your arse was the difference in texture!




LOL, when you hired local cooks there wasnt much difference in the texture either.

[ktek01]

There are companies out there that will hire you without any experience, and without doing any vetting whatsoever. You do not want to work for any outfit like that, you will regret it if you live to tell about it. WPPS is a really good way to go for the regular Infantry, MP or others outside of the loop. You will get a fair shot, and if you qualify you will get some experience under your belt while making good money. Once you have completed a contract like that you will be more attractive to other contractors and you will be in a much better position to make an informed decision about your next gig.

[Silverbullet]

I wanted to bring some points up, again, due to a few posts which caused an influx of resumes over the last few days.

I'm still seeing very poorly organized documents call resume. For some reason many are still being sold on an esoteric resume format vice something that flows smoothly and uses words that mean something.

Use a simple format. Stop bolding words you think are important. Stop using Special Operations every other sentence. If dudes from SMU's don't need to do it, then you don't either. While it may impress the non military background HR person it is completely transparent to the experienced dude who may have the final say. Pick key training that you've attended and list it. Listing every crse you've ever attended, even if not relevant, takes up space better used to list work history and operational experience. I know all the pre retirement/separation seminars tell you about writing to impress but they don't know what they are talking about in regards to this industry. You either have the experience or you don't. You either participated in operations or you didn't.

As stated before don't bury your actual operational experience with a page of fluff you think someone may like. Stress it without exaggeration. It's important. Schools and other training is listed to enhance your experience, not replace it. The first thing I look at on any resume is the work experience. If it's jacked up or uses every buzz word or term in existence, I can pretty much be assured the person is covering for something he is lacking.

I can't stress any of this enough and the use of one professional email for job hunting, is vitally important. hotlove@skank . com or killer@ xxxx. com won't cut it. Something with your first initial/last name or initials is what you should shoot for. Don't use it for your everyday email if you like to email your buds jokes or any type of chain mail. It won't look good if you mistakenly email porno to the same HR person you sent your resume to 3 days earlier.

I'd like to see everyone who is qualified to work, get work, but some effort on the resume needs to be made.

BTW, the DOS format is not a format to use to look for work anywhere but DOS.

Good luck.

[FormerMarine0311]

I have seen some very good posts about PSD work. I have been reading everything I can find since joining, and have found only one pertinent to the line I am interested in: FP. Sniper111 brought some very informative points.
I got extremely lucky with the training gig I am on right now, without networking, as I came into it an unknown. My resume (unfluffed) said enough. I did not have anyone to network myself into this job. Again, I got LUCKY. I realize this. But the work I would like to do when this job runs out of steam is static. I am still reading everything I can find, but this seems to be the best place for this subject. Anyone out there willing to provide more insight?

[Silverbullet]

I'm back for a week or so. I am open to help with a few resumes if the need is there. Do not PM me about this if you just registered or have never posted on this site.

I have one person, Putty, who I've been working on and he is head of the list. He presents a unique situation since while he has very good experience, it is limited in the span of time he has performed, ie...he is currently in the Army and has served for a few ys. I've worked through a few different methods of putting his resume together and hope to finalize a smooth copy for him this week.

I'd also prefer if the questions of how, why and when regarding international work stay in this thread vice becoming a thread of their own in the jobs forum.

Thanks

[Silverbullet]

I deleted a few posts that asked company specific questions, etc...

This thread is not for company specific points or questions.

Thanks

[KamoKid]

Well, this advice comes from someone who just finished their first year contracting so you can take it for what it's worth...

1) Applying: Once I knew my terminal leave dates I was applying to most PSD companies I heard of. I did this online and went threw about 10 resume styles. One thing I did was ALWAYS followed up with calls if able.

2) Networking: While this idea is probably the best piece of advice HANDS DOWN, when I started I didn't know anyone. Develop "people" skills and learn to let others talk and you listen. Some people always want to tell their excuses for something they messed up or want to tell their story... You can save those things for another day. When you meet people, listen to their story, get them to talk. That always seems to make people remember you more.

3) My 1st Call: My first call was kinda short lived. XYZ company called and asked about some of my background. Since I was SOF, they wanted to know some questions and specifics that related to their contract. Unfortunately, I wasn't hired. Some people told me I should have "stretched" my experience and stuff. Luckily, I didn't. I already knew what those kinds of guys do to a 4 man team operating in hazardous countries. BUT, one thing I did do was wait and called that same recruiter back about once every 4-6 weeks. He ended up giving me a different job, and yes, it was WPPS.

4) Training: I knew a guy from CAG who gave me a piece of advice when I started looking at why no one was calling me back about a job in the beginning. I said "I'm a former SOF guy, do I need more schools, deployments, what??? Should I pay for some extra schools?" My friend told me that there is too many companies out there willing to pay for you to go through their training, so I shouldn't have to pay for it myself. I never did pay for any schools, luckily.

What I did in the end was before getting a WPPS slot is I took a job just getting me overseas again (in a non-armed roll) doing driving. I hated it but did it for 4 months gaining experience living and working around Arabs until XYZ Company offered me the WPPS slot.

Now, this is the SAME advice I have given my friends from "regular" Army units and they are now in the same place I am. They said at first, well I'm not SOF, and don't have all the cool guy schools... But they are now here, getting they same money I get and live just a few trailers down from me. Being former SOF got me no further than they got...

IF you do get hired, PLEASE be the "quiet" professional. Don't come over here and get drunk with the "gang" because you're afraid you won't "fit in". This isn't high school. If you want a beer then fine. But your ass better not be hung over on the run the next morning or end up drunk starting fights with coalition forces. Be a grown up, take advice, realize that you aren't gonna tell people "the better way", and don't go around background checking people or talking about how cool you were in the Marines and that the Air Force is a bunch of pussies... Because the man in front of you, you know nothing about, he might just be a Air Force "pussy" Combat Controller who stomps your ass in front of everyone. Then you just look dumb from then on.

Hope that helps. Like I said in the beginning, I'm a noobie too, so take my opinions for what they're worth...

[24/7]

Great advice here and I'd like to add my two cents with some basics, I feel embarrassed to even bring it up but I've witnessed numerous good guys fail because of poor prior planning.

The subject of resumes has been discussed and I won't add to it except to say...keep it honest, don't lie and don't embellish what you did.

Some companies use phone interviews to feel you out, if you are put in that position try to conduct the interview on a land line vs. cell phone. It's easier to understand what you're saying in many cases.

Talk like a professional, be clear and concise with your answers, don't ramble, if you like to hear yourself talk...shut up, don't use profanity, and above all else - Be honest.

Expect to be checked out, we all have skeletons in our closet, if one of them comes up in the conversation be prepared to address it. Just because you have a blemish in your background isn't always a reason to turn a good guy away, but deception or evading the question most likely will be.

You may be the biggest baddest barrel chested freedom fighter in town and the greatest thing since sliced bread but don't be over confident or cocky, save that for later.

[JCasp]

BUT, one thing I did do was wait and called that same recruiter back about once every 4-6 weeks. He ended up giving me a different job, and yes, it was WPPS.


Can someone clarify this for me? I'm not particularly learned about all things PSD/Contracting but I thought this was just a program that covered the PMC companies State had hired?

[Silverbullet]

WPPS is a program run and administered by DOS.

Under this program contracts are awarded. DOS does not "hire" companies in the traditional sense. They award contracts and issue task orders for performance. The program is not individual company dependent. The companies perform whatever part of the contract they are awarded under the umbrella of this program.

[bluepit]

I have read all three pages and now realize how little I know about contract security work! If it is even possible to "know" how little you know.
I served 13 years with the 82nd (Iraq 90-91, Rwanda/Uganda 94, Tuzla airbase 95-96, Liberia 96), 2/29 Instructor 96-98, AMCOM ops/tng 99-02, and 2ID S-5 Hovey 02-03. I did one year armed security at Redstone Arsenal Huntsville Alabama after retiring and am now working with CSA in Kuwait. They are not holding up to there end of the agreement/contract but that will not keep from giving 100% while I'm here.
I am writing to ask for info on training when I am through here. Where do I find reputable courses for PSD, and defensive and offensive driving?
Being honest: when csa started messing with my hours/pay and how they were going to account for the hours worked, I started applying for positions elsewhere. I do think I deserve a job nor do I believe I qualify for all the jobs I want to work! I am simply asking people who I can see know, "How do I get the training that companies want you to have?" Are there any near Huntsville Alabama or that area of the states? One of the posts talked about Blackwater North. Do you have to ask and then be invited to their training, or can you pay to go?
Any names of places to attend reputable training will be greatly appreciated!
Bluepit

[nofear]

I am writing to ask for info on training when I am through here. Where do I find reputable courses for PSD, and defensive and offensive driving?

I have less than 2 yrs contracting experience. I looked at numerous PSD courses prior to getting my first gig, and went to a reasonable well-known one.

In my experience, limted as it is, undergoing a "PSD" course is less valuable than undergoing training for a specific skillset/s such as medical, driving, and precision shooting.

Unless the HR dept is looking for specific schools, which seems rare, then the "experience" of undergoing PSD training is not that valuable. You should train to learn a skill which is both marketable and useful, and not to just obtain a "PSD" qualification on your CV.

Good luck with it...

[Hot Mess]

Your post

I don't really know what to make of your post, but there are somethings in there that just don't seem right.

[RAT]

Some other things which are basic, but so many people don't have together (advice given to me from Wolf Weiss before he was killed).

Umm Your joking right???

RO!!!

[chip8541]

I must be tired. I keep wiping my eyes to make sure im not reading a fairy tale.

[thedudeman]

hey,Im new to this site and Im currently active duty Army but im recieving a chapter 14 under general conditions. Ive been in going on 2 years now and Ive had almost every training the army ( or atleast my command) could offer me and have excelled at most, but never deployed. Im an 11B and looking into going into the PSD/PMC field. Does my situation screw me? Or do I have a chance. Im probubly discharging in the next 2 to 3 months and was looking into going to a tactical or EP school. Ill be on the east coast but Im more than willing to travel for training. Any help is greatly appriciated. Tnx

[Virgil Tibbs]

2 years active duty? Chapter 14? Why would anyone in this world hire you? What would someone want to invest money and time into someone who didnt last 2 years AD? Not meant to be a dick, but this is the big boy world where we have to trust our team mates, and you are off to a bad start. I would start thinking school if I were you.

[thedudeman]

Not that i didnt last, command decided to make an example out of me.
Just thought that someone who actually came from a combat MOS would still be useful in this field.

but tnx

[SOTB]

Not that i didnt last, command decided to make an example out of me.
Just thought that someone who actually came from a combat MOS would still be useful in this field.

but tnxLOL. As if you were the only combat arms MOS candidate left, right? Certainly, there would be no one else out there with a combat arms MOS applying for these jobs. And with two wars going on, even less chance of someone with a combat arms MOS who actually deployed, right?

Well, I think we know the answers to that....

[Virgil Tibbs]

What kind of clearance do you think you could get? When asked about your discharge what will you say? That you were made an example of? It's always someone else's fault. Ponder these things and think of accountability. Good first step.

[thedudeman]

First off I didnt not mean it to look that i was placing blame and of course im not the only one of my kind in or trying to get into this field. I know ther are plenty, probubly everyone other than me who is more qualified for this kind of work. My discharge is due to a drug problem i had. I self admitted myself to rehab and am proud to say i have been clean for 2 months. I have nothing to hide and everything to gain. I love the suck and i think i was born for it. i would love to be a part of the PSC/PMC world. and i thought there would be somewhere i could start wiether it be some sort of school or training or anything.

any info is greatly appriciated.
harsh or not.
tnx

[Virgil Tibbs]

Dude, I would be thinking about school.

[gavin]

First off I didnt not mean it to look that i was placing blame and of course im not the only one of my kind in or trying to get into this field. I know ther are plenty, probubly everyone other than me who is more qualified for this kind of work. My discharge is due to a drug problem i had. I self admitted myself to rehab and am proud to say i have been clean for 2 months. I have nothing to hide and everything to gain. I love the suck and i think i was born for it. i would love to be a part of the PSC/PMC world. and i thought there would be somewhere i could start wiether it be some sort of school or training or anything.

any info is greatly appriciated.
harsh or not.
tnx


If rehab was the first step, BSEP or "Hooked On Phonics" is step two...you will do yourself a favor in any endeavor if you learn to write correctly. How you present yourself in person or writing cannot be overstated. Best of luck to you.

[Frog]

Dudeman, you were discharged with a General Discharge for misconduct and the inability of the Army to rehabilitate you.

"Does my situation screw me? " Yes.

Go back to school as Virgil suggests. PSD, LEO and DoD associated businesses will not hire you.

[mdwest]

here is the deal..

you could be the best guy in the world.. a graduate of every high speed low drag course the army ever offered.. and an absolute master of every skill that PSD or FP requires..

and if I wanted to hire you..

i couldnt for almost any job i have seen announced by the US government since about 2006...

the vast majority of the work out there that supports the govt requires a clearance..

youre not going to be able to get one for a while..

the few jobs that dont require a clearance..

require a minimum of 4 years in the military..

you dont have that either..

the jobs that support the commercial sector are more heavily competed for than the jobs that support the government..

so those are out too...


go back to school dude..

[Silverbullet]

He's gone. Sent me 2 PM's that shouldn't have been sent.

[Virgil Tibbs]

Judging by some of the jobs I have worked he'll probably be my next Project Manager. :biggrin:

[gavin]

Poor soul...You were just too high-strung...

[Old_Starlight]

Judging by some of the jobs I have worked he'll probably be my next Project Manager. :biggrin:

Are you sure we never shared a PM somewhere? :biggrin:

[BomberJosh]

This is some really good information. Thx for everyone throwing there .02 in for the noobs on the board.

What are people's views on future psd work with the eventual slow down of Afghanistan and current withdrawals in Iraq. I don't want to do EOD work forever, I'm intrigued by the prospects of an opportunity to take a PSS job vice an EOD job. Ya the PSS job offers like 2/3 salary of an Eod job but I think I'd enjoy it even more and broaden my horizons. Don't get me wrong I live for EOD but it's not the same as a civy I won't be patrolling and manually rendering safe ied's.

My biggest worry with passing on the PSS job now is that maybe in a year when my EOD job is over it won't be as easy to get into a good PSS job

What are y'alls take on that subject. Remember I'm a total noob to the up coming civilian life and new to this community.

[ep3allen]

Hello all,

I'm new to the IC world. I'm on here because I seek information on becoming an operator doing security work. I've searched the site and have found a little bit of information but not enough for me to understand. Here's a little bit about me, I was a Marine Corporal part of 1st Battalion 5th Marines, served 4 years as an 0341 (Mortarman) assigned to a Weapons Co., fought during the initial invasion in OIF 1, did combat operations in Fallujah during OIF 2. I have done SERE(Level A), MOUT, T.R.A.P, and Combat Aidsman training. Honorably discharged in April 2006. I currently do Information Technology for Los Angeles County as a supervisor.

Here are my questions:
Does having a long gap of unrelated experience a disqualifier?
Do I need to take any training courses prior to applying?
Do I supply my own gear?
What are my chances without a security clearance?

[ep3allen]

I understand I misused the word operator in this case, sorry

Hello all,

I'm new to the IC world. I'm on here because I seek information on becoming an operator doing security work. I've searched the site and have found a little bit of information but not enough for me to understand. Here's a little bit about me, I was a Marine Corporal part of 1st Battalion 5th Marines, served 4 years as an 0341 (Mortarman) assigned to a Weapons Co., fought during the initial invasion in OIF 1, did combat operations in Fallujah during OIF 2. I have done SERE(Level A), MOUT, T.R.A.P, and Combat Aidsman training. Honorably discharged in April 2006. I currently do Information Technology for Los Angeles County as a supervisor.

Here are my questions:
Does having a long gap of unrelated experience a disqualifier?
Do I need to take any training courses prior to applying?
Do I supply my own gear?
What are my chances without a security clearance?

[crapstash]

Hello all,

I've searched the site and have found a little bit of information but not enough for me to understand. ...............
Here are my questions:
Does having a long gap of unrelated experience a disqualifier?
Do I need to take any training courses prior to applying?
Do I supply my own gear?
What are my chances without a security clearance?


This is hard to believe. All of these questions can be answered for you on this site. Do some more research, a lot of it, then apply to a job that you may be interested in.
TO answer your questions, in short...

No
Probably
Depends
Depends.

Good Luck.

[USN MA1]

I'm new on this site... I'll be retiring from the US Navy soon. I'm single, no kids (don't know how I lucked out there :)))

Previously I worked at Mobile Security (during pre-com, did not deploy), then spent 2 years 8 months in Bahrain where I was a Tactical Supervisor for Embarked Security Teams for most of my time there. After that I was stationed in Japan for 3 years doing basic AT/FP and LE. My last command is the FP Department at the sub-base in San Diego, but I've been away the last year. Just completing a tour in Afghanistan and will be back in San Diego (hopefully if the flight isnt cancelled ;)) tomorrow night.

I've been told by a couple different people in the business I met in Afghanistan, that I have enough experience to find work overseas with no problems. What is the feeling of the guys here?

I was looking into getting some additional training at US Training Center. Tactical Pistol, Carbine Operator, and High Risk Security Operations. 22 days of training all together. Good idea? I've read that people can often get that training provided if they can get hired with the right contract.

My real question is about age. I'm going to be 53 next month. I've looked at some of the various PT standards and don't feel I would have any problem passing them. People I spoke with in Afghanistan, some of whom were in my age group, didn't seem to think it would be a problem. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[yojinbukai]

I'm new on this site... I'll be retiring from the US Navy soon. I'm single, no kids (don't know how I lucked out there :)))

Previously I worked at Mobile Security (during pre-com, did not deploy), then spent 2 years 8 months in Bahrain where I was a Tactical Supervisor for Embarked Security Teams for most of my time there. After that I was stationed in Japan for 3 years doing basic AT/FP and LE. My last command is the FP Department at the sub-base in San Diego, but I've been away the last year. Just completing a tour in Afghanistan and will be back in San Diego (hopefully if the flight isnt cancelled ;)) tomorrow night.

I've been told by a couple different people in the business I met in Afghanistan, that I have enough experience to find work overseas with no problems. What is the feeling of the guys here?

I was looking into getting some additional training at US Training Center. Tactical Pistol, Carbine Operator, and High Risk Security Operations. 22 days of training all together. Good idea? I've read that people can often get that training provided if they can get hired with the right contract.

My real question is about age. I'm going to be 53 next month. I've looked at some of the various PT standards and don't feel I would have any problem passing them. People I spoke with in Afghanistan, some of whom were in my age group, didn't seem to think it would be a problem. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

We don't know you, only what you've posted here and in your profile. Not enough to make an objective assessment of any aspect of your qualifications. Job descriptions are usually very clear about qualifications so use that as a guide.

Training is always a good idea so long as it is pertinent, accredited or recognized, and doesn't put you into financial obligations you can't shoulder.

Age isn't a terrible issue as long as you don't have issues. Some 50 year olds are in better shape than some 20 year olds I know.

[USN MA1]

We don't know you, only what you've posted here and in your profile. Not enough to make an objective assessment of any aspect of your qualifications. Job descriptions are usually very clear about qualifications so use that as a guide.

Training is always a good idea so long as it is pertinent, accredited or recognized, and doesn't put you into financial obligations you can't shoulder.

Age isn't a terrible issue as long as you don't have issues. Some 50 year olds are in better shape than some 20 year olds I know.

Of course that's true. I'm sure whatever job I'm hired for that there will be an evaluation process during training. I've been reading job descriptions and feel I won't have any problem qualifying for any of the FP positions. It seems that reputation is important in this business. Given that, I wouldn't apply for something I didn't believe I was qualified for. No way that would not come out and that would just be a waste of everyones time!

I just got back from deployment and already heard about someone who "inflated" their resume for a technical position. They washed out of training. Not something I want to do.

Good to hear confirmation that age won't be a major issue. I understand the importance of fitness especially in jobs like these so I don't see that part as an issue.

Thanks for your response. I appreciate it!

[GMGK3A]

Hi I'm new on this site and learning somthing new every time i logon so please dont rip into me if i post this question in the worng place.

Has anyone ever heard of the CP company Clearwater? its a UK company that employs and trains you. I have searched the name but the searches dont come up with the company that i am thinking of. There website www.clearwaterprojects.com

If anyone has any info on this company your response would be greatly appreciated.

[Massgrunt]

Employs then trains, or charges you for training with the promise to employ you later? Big difference. Just wondering.

[RB]

Hey all...been awhile since I've seen this thread....as in 2005.... :rolleyes:

Post #8 isn't all that updated anymore.

Do your research to look for a good company. Lotso folks here on the board can give you way more valuable/current info than I can.

[hutt1]

howdy folks,
i will be retiring one year from today, and have a few questions for the experienced guys out there. i am currently in afghanistan and trying to start the networking process. i believe my skillsets include a good background for FP, does anyone know what companys have a good hold on those type of contracts that are needing anyone a year out, or should i wait till i am about six months from when i will be free and available? Also, i have spent my entire career in the Infantry, been an NCO since 96, graduated Ranger shcool in 96 as well, i have served in every leadership roll there is for the infantry, through platoon level, to include time served in scouts and LRS. i feel that i have more of leadership and management skills that would prevail with FP rather than WPS. But i would enjoy being a leader in WPS. Planning and assessing is something i have always enjoyed and am damn good at it. what do you guys think about which avenue to persue? thanks ahead of time for any info and advice!!!

[Hot Mess]

I know for a fact this topic has been covered here a few times. But in a nutshell, no one is going to talk to you a year out. Most guys have to wait until they are in the later stages of ACAPing (like a month or two out). That's what I read here anyway.

I'm not busting your balls but are you expecting to leave AD and as your first job be a "leader in WPS"? I'm just curious. I don't know if that happens or not and would actually like to know more about it, hopefully someone can chime in. I'm sure this happens to E-8/9's from SOF units but don't know about other people.

In my personal experience people that state they would make good leaders or that they want to lead people are usually A. not very good at it or B. no one wants to follow them. Just my experience from someone that is happy to be an Indian.

[Rockout]

I'm not busting your balls but are you expecting to leave AD and as your first job be a "leader in WPS"? I'm just curious. I don't know if that happens or not and would actually like to know more about it, hopefully someone can chime in. I'm sure this happens to E-8/9's from SOF units but don't know about other people.

In my personal experience people that state they would make good leaders or that they want to lead people are usually A. not very good at it or B. no one wants to follow them. Just my experience from someone that is happy to be an Indian.

Nothing like calling it like you see it Snaplink. That is why this site is awesome. WPPS/WPS has been going on for quite some time now. There is alot of experience on the ground. It is highly unlikely that someone is going to come in from the outside and be "the answer". Especially if they are an E8/E9. What to you call an E8/E9 in WPS? Dude, well, or window licker...experience on the program counts, not time in service. Luckily, that is stipulated in the SOW.

In my experience, PSD contracting is not necessarily a great first job for senior enlisted whether SOF or not. Think about it, for the most part a senior SF guy has had maybe one or two guys under him for a while or, if he is a team sergeant maybe ten, not including indig. SEAL types, not much better. Not necessarily a recipe for leader guy of the month. Rangers and Marines generally have more experience with taking care of more people. Often they still need time to wind down from the mil. Some can make it, but others burn in, or burn out because of the differences primarily they are learning to fit into the culture when they are used to making sure others meet the culture and standards.

Just my two pennies based on having experienced it. Regardless though, good luck.

[Jong]

In WPS, you have to have had leadership experience prior to. You can be on the WPS program for years and if no prior leadership experience it is very possible you can never move up.

[SouthernShooter]

Lots of great information here gents. I would like to add a couple of pointers on how to succeed in the FP/Static side of the house.

You are being evaluated from the moment you are BoG (Boots on Ground). Please heed the advice above and know that this is a small community and the PMs/CMs talk. If you come in to a static contract acting as if you're the end all of security contractors, you will not make a good impression. Just absorb as much as you possibly can and get to work. Work ethic and trustworthiness is rewarded above all else in my experience and best of all they speak for themselves. No boasting required.

Do what is asked of you. Meet your deliverables, show up on time and above all remain professional. You don't have to come in and light the world on fire with your "great ideas". Just do the job and stick to sharpening the FP fundamentals of your assigned venue/AO.

Don't complain. Bring up issues in a professional manner, but make the effort to show some initiative and provide a solution. Due to the competitiveness of the industry, many contracts have limited resources and everyone needs to chip in to make things work.

Remember, companies like to hire internally for higher positions if possible. If you are a highly qualified individual but couldn't get into the PSD world, being personally vouched for by your leadership will go along way to meeting that goal. When emergent openings occur or a big contract is awarded; company leadership will want a solid person or core of experienced personnel personally vouched for by their management team(s). Highly qualified static guys/gals with a solid work ethic are the 1st to go. Mainly because they are the cheapest to replace. Remember, your manager is putting his/her name on the line recommending you. Leave no doubt that you will not tarnish their reputation by vouching for you.

I'll trot back off into the sunset. I just wanted to share some of my experience to hopefully repay a small amount of the bandwidth that I have used while perusing this great site.

[medic484]

Ive been a Paramedic for over ten years and would like to go in a differnt direction now overseas and remote medic would fit well I think , not sure if I would fit in though ive no military backround
is it possible to get a job as a paramedic/medic with the community served on this forum?
is there anything I can do training wise to be a better candidate
any advice would be appreciated or I should just turn my focus elsewhere
like offshore medic or flight medic medical rescue groups
thanks

[Expatmedic]

Ive been a Paramedic for over ten years and would like to go in a differnt direction now overseas and remote medic would fit well I think , not sure if I would fit in though ive no military backround
is it possible to get a job as a paramedic/medic with the community served on this forum?
is there anything I can do training wise to be a better candidate
any advice would be appreciated or I should just turn my focus elsewhere
like offshore medic or flight medic medical rescue groups
thanks

A little late to the game. About 8 years ago when KBR was going nuts and hiring everyone, was the time to get in.

If you want to do remote medicine, there are threads here that contain that very info. How up to speed are your sewing skills, tropical medicine, occupational med. skills? Contact the usual suspects and see if they are hiring. I knew nothing about nothing when I got my first gig, and did it by filling out an application with resume then following up with a phone call. Remote medicine transcends the usual Paramedic skill set.

FYI, good spelling, grammar and punctuation helps when asking about jobs, career etc. Post like you are in a job interview.

[medic484]

thanks Expatmedic

[Guy]

Ive been a Paramedic for over ten years and would like to go in a differnt direction now overseas and remote medic would fit well I think , not sure if I would fit in though ive no military backround
is it possible to get a job as a paramedic/medic with the community served on this forum?
is there anything I can do training wise to be a better candidate
any advice would be appreciated or I should just turn my focus elsewhere
like offshore medic or flight medic medical rescue groups
thanksTake a "remote" medicine course. The equipment/practices that you usually work with will "not" be the same.

Stay safe.

[medic484]

Great feedback thanks , I have a better understanding of the skills needed and where my weaknesses are now, much appreciated.

[Expatmedic]

Also, there was a Surgical Skills for Paramedics course out of the UK sponsored by the Royal College of Surgeons, I never attended, but I know people who did and heard nothing but good things.

It taught:

Sewing, Chest Tubes, Cutdowns, Central Lines, Escharotomy etc.

And find an ED PA to start shadowing.

[wandering_idiot]

medic484,

PM inbound

[medic484]

I've been looking around at remote medical training and found a few courses in the States, nothing as cool as expatmedics UK course chest tubes, cut downs and central line etc; but advanced provider courses. wilderness/remote,offshore and some leaning more tactical . Would anyone suggest a training site or provider thats well thought of by this community. Shadow a PA I like that.

[Guy]

Medical Person In Charge certs before attempting any "advance" medical-care such as was mentioned earlier. :cool:

Stay safe.

[999yards]

I appreciate the oppurtunity to post in this thread as I do not have the experiences that qualifies me to post in the others.

I only have four years military, not SF just a Seabee, with only four months in Iraq and four years in law enforcement, still current and serving as SRT Designated Marksman. Not very appealing to recruiters I know. I do however have years of experience (1000yard matches) and recent formal training with a precision rifle. I have seen the WPS course of fire for DDM and can most certainly qualify. I don't know anything about the other crew serve type weapons such as M249, M240B, we did not have those in the Seabees just M60 and 50cal.

My question is; do I need PSS experience to be considered for employement as a DDM? The only job postings I have seen for DDM are labeled as PSS/DDM.

Are there any companies that hire for Static DDM only?

I have been told by a WPS contracted company to send in my resume after explaining to the recruiter my limited experience. Is that a normal response?

Thank You.

[Jong]

I have been told by a WPS contracted company to send in my resume after explaining to the recruiter my limited experience. Is that a normal response?

Thank You.

Maybe it is just jetlag that I have right now, but is this stupid question day and I just missed the notification? What other response do you think a recruiter would tell you other than piss off?

[Expatmedic]

I have been told by a WPS contracted company to send in my resume after explaining to the recruiter my limited experience. Is that a normal response?

Thank You.

Are you unhappy that after explaining your specific experience, that the recruiter still asked for your resume? This may just be a canned response, but it is better than "no, we do not need you at all".

Others may have a different POV.

[999yards]

Must be stupid question day. Why wouldn't he simply say don't bother you don't have enough experience.

[Expatmedic]

Must be stupid question day. Why wouldn't he simply say don't bother you don't have enough experience.

Perhaps you are of some use, some place? I hope your life's plan is to not always sell your self short. Others, can chime in on WPS contracts and give you a very real take on if you are qualified or not. In the meantime, search some of the very excellent threads about this issue to give you an idea as to how your creds and skill set stack up.

[SOTB]

Must be stupid question day. Why wouldn't he simply say don't bother you don't have enough experience.You may have the required experience for the current contract specifications. Whether it is enough to sincerely do a good job once you get out there is another question -- and one that the recruiters (in their defense) may not be equipped to answer, no matter what your past experience looks like.

In short, if you want the job, and if the company will hire you, then do what you want....

[999yards]

EXPATMEDIC,
Not selling myself short. Being honest and not exagerating my experience. Thanks for your input.

SOTB,
I really appreciate your time. Lots of good info in your answer. Thank You.

[Expatmedic]

EXPATMEDIC,
Not selling myself short. Being honest and not exagerating my experience. Thanks for your input.

I understand, and I think I came accross as a bit of a jackass, so I apologize. It seemed as if in two consecutive posts your were selling your self short, when at this point there was just no need to do that.

[Chemical]

Thank you for that insight. you post actually answered a few questions of mine and is appreciated.

Lots of great information here gents. I would like to add a couple of pointers on how to succeed in the FP/Static side of the house.

You are being evaluated from the moment you are BoG (Boots on Ground). Please heed the advice above and know that this is a small community and the PMs/CMs talk. If you come in to a static contract acting as if you're the end all of security contractors, you will not make a good impression. Just absorb as much as you possibly can and get to work. Work ethic and trustworthiness is rewarded above all else in my experience and best of all they speak for themselves. No boasting required.

Do what is asked of you. Meet your deliverables, show up on time and above all remain professional. You don't have to come in and light the world on fire with your "great ideas". Just do the job and stick to sharpening the FP fundamentals of your assigned venue/AO.

Don't complain. Bring up issues in a professional manner, but make the effort to show some initiative and provide a solution. Due to the competitiveness of the industry, many contracts have limited resources and everyone needs to chip in to make things work.

Remember, companies like to hire internally for higher positions if possible. If you are a highly qualified individual but couldn't get into the PSD world, being personally vouched for by your leadership will go along way to meeting that goal. When emergent openings occur or a big contract is awarded; company leadership will want a solid person or core of experienced personnel personally vouched for by their management team(s). Highly qualified static guys/gals with a solid work ethic are the 1st to go. Mainly because they are the cheapest to replace. Remember, your manager is putting his/her name on the line recommending you. Leave no doubt that you will not tarnish their reputation by vouching for you.

I'll trot back off into the sunset. I just wanted to share some of my experience to hopefully repay a small amount of the bandwidth that I have used while perusing this great site.

[Chemical]

"Your post actually answered a few questions of mine and is appreciated."

I'm having issues with typos today.

[warrensa]

Hi to all and, respectfully, if I can, my .02 worth,

I've come from a Military Background, then Law Enforcement, then using a combination of the skills drawn from the both ended up in the Research / Intel and Analyst side of the business. Not what I had intended but soon found I had a nack for it so stayed on in that field.

Whilst definetely the PSD 'shooters' side of the business may seem to have all the glamour and fame, there's more than 1 cog to make the machine work.
- With that I haven't deployed to the sandbox and most of my work is Govt based here in - and occasionaly outside of - Australia.

At the time I left the Military and L.E. the industry was already heading up and up, and the perception was that if you weren't a U.S. or U.K. citizen the ods were pretty much stacked up against you.

With that there are plenty of Aussies working abroad now, with various comapnies setting up an office here. My path into contracting wasn't an up and up affair - but alot of up and sideways, sometimes even down, but from each position I've held, I've put in everything and made sure when I left I had done enough to earn a referral and network with those that stayed on, and those that left and departed on their own endeavours.

Being in Canberra, is a benefit - much like being in London, Washington or wherever the Countries capital is you are located. The Govt base is huge, on-going training is a must for them and Govt being Govt, theyre attending also - so when it's time for a coffee break, lunch, or whenever, network!

So in closing, as an independent give you room to manoveour, freedom to pick and choose, and work by your own guidelines (within the companies policies).

Though again, in emphasis - NETWORK.

There is no shortcut. No perfect training school. No niche capability that isn't being filled by someone else. Take the hits, and learn from it. Not everythings up and up - you may have to take a sideways or downwards hit to leapfrog to the next position.

Again only my .02 worth.....I've only been an Independent coming up a year.

[pulphero]

So, the last brigade enters Kuwait. American combat forces pretty much gone, most ecspecially in numbers but industry and maybe DoS(?) concerns still there. As far as I can tell from scanning news reports (which may not help at all) Iraq still remains ostensibly stable but with prolific violence now leaning more to criminality. I also honestly can't tell if the local government there really hates IC companies or if they are just protesting for political reasons while wanting to keep them around, even as a necessary evil (in their eyes).

So from my position of un-clarity; will less big army troops = more IC's (not counting DoD jobs when there's less DoD) or will Iraq transition into a PSD/FP-less society. It seems possible theoretically that a power vacuum left by combat forces could be filled by contractors--if the need were there and start a 2nd 'boom' or is this chapter closed?

I have no idea how to enter that question into the search engine so if I'm missing whole threads on page 3 or 10 or something, I apologize.

[allen.is.haynes]

pulp...plain English dude....make it a simple question, what is it that you want to know? less than 100 words please...looking for simplicity here.

[mdwest]

So from my position of un-clarity; will less big army troops = more IC's (not counting DoD jobs when there's less DoD) or will Iraq transition into a PSD/FP-less society. It seems possible theoretically that a power vacuum left by combat forces could be filled by contractors--if the need were there and start a 2nd 'boom' or is this chapter closed?

Specific to the Iraq theater.. no.. less big army does not equal more private security.. the total number of private security contractors in Iraq today is substantially less than it was a year ago.. and there is no projection for the number to increase anytime in the near future (at least not on the US government payroll)..

the jobs that are there today.. will likely continue to be there for a while longer..

but you are not going to see a "2nd Boom".. under the current circumstances..

[MixedLoad]

pulp...plain English dude....make it a simple question, what is it that you want to know? less than 100 words please...looking for simplicity here.

You might want to tone down your attitude. This board has BTDT's to do the post police calls.

Thanks.

[SOTB]

pulp...plain English dude....make it a simple question, what is it that you want to know? less than 100 words please...looking for simplicity here.LOL. You criticize a post when your own posts leave something to be desired in clarity and grammar.

As MixedLoad stated, perhaps you might leave the critiquing, and even answering of posts, to someone else....

[pulphero]

pulp...plain English dude....make it a simple question, what is it that you want to know? less than 100 words please...looking for simplicity here.

:eek:
Allen, will the draw down be a boon for a new hire IC’s like back in 2004-2006 or is it a nail in the coffin of PSC‘s?

29 words. Of course not qualifying certain questions, or statements, on this forum can leave your ass hung out for the BTDT fish to shred so I tend to over compensate, admittedly.

[SOTB]

Allen....From his profile and statements, allen isn't qualified to do anything other than ask questions. Bantering with him may also draw the attention you are seeking to avoid....

[Silverbullet]

We have discussed the issue of the draw down and it's impact on the need or lack of need for more "security" types in threads not titled "How to become....".

MDWest gave you the accurate answer so there is no need to continue to take this thread off in the wrong direction.

Thanks

[allen.is.haynes]

Sorry gents, didnt mean to come off in a worng way. I wanted to understand Pulphero's comment. Thanks MDWest for your answer Thanks

[ERadwanski]

Hello all, newbie here looking to learn more about IC work. Right now I'm a former USMC infantryman who did four years and got out. I miss the job, I miss being deployed, I have two combat deployments one to Iraq and one to Afghanistan. I am currently attending a community college with a focus in Criminal Justice. I just have two questions. What can I do to set myself apart from the average 0311 or 11B and make myself that much more desirable to potential employers? And even though I'd eventually like to break into the PSD side of things, I recently had to turn down an FP offer from a company due to how early they wanted me to attend their training. Are force pro jobs like these a good way to get my foot in the door?

[Trig]

What can I do to set myself apart from the average 0311

To set you apart? I would say get your degree. Also, up your people-skills and be way more humble than you were as an 03. My .02

[Alpha_Raider_42]

Hello all, newbie here looking to learn more about IC work. Right now I'm a former USMC infantryman who did four years and got out. I miss the job, I miss being deployed, I have two combat deployments one to Iraq and one to Afghanistan. I am currently attending a community college with a focus in Criminal Justice. I just have two questions. What can I do to set myself apart from the average 0311 or 11B and make myself that much more desirable to potential employers? And even though I'd eventually like to break into the PSD side of things, I recently had to turn down an FP offer from a company due to how early they wanted me to attend their training. Are force pro jobs like these a good way to get my foot in the door?

Welcome,
1: As a member of this site, I would encourage you to read as much as you can. There is a lot of info on here that has educated me on the how the industry is run and what approaches to take. SOCNET has an array of experienced members including recruiters from various companies always looking for a qualified individual. Stay fit stay and stay sharp.
2: A Force Protection gig is always a good way to get into the industry. The pay may not be desirable in the AO but don't be picky with what offers are being placed in front of you. A more experienced member may elaborate on that note but just something to start with. From one 03 to another...get that degree brother, that's going to outlast any gig! Best of luck.

Semper Fi

[ERadwanski]

To set you apart? I would say get your degree. Also, up your people-skills and be way more humble than you were as an 03. My .02

Humility is something I pride myself in. Oh, the irony I know. But seriously I know my place, I'm always willing to learn form anyone willing to contribute. Thanks to both you fellas for responding.