My Computer Thread

[Doogie320]

This is to answer the "Why dog on Brand X" of computers/ OS'es. Yes, this is a very simple view of things but I'm not delving into the nitty-gritty, whining, or bickering about them. Here is your "one over the world."

Windows: Widely known and used, a variety of hardware and apps for it, easily learned. Can be unstable and some people hate Microsoft. The majority of virii and malware are written for Win systems.

Mac: Proprietary hardware. GREAT for video editing, WYSIWYG display. Lack of apps, games, etc. when compared to Windows. Generally it is more stable and less prone to a virus (that the latter is due to a lack of people writing virii for them, not an inherent security standard).

Linux: Uses existing hardware (like an older Win box) and is faster than Win out of the box. Relies heavily on a shell/ command prompt interface. Not as user friendly as Win (about the same as a Mac, IMO), some hardware may not have drivers for Linux (this is getting better). Allows more functionality (especially for a geek that can use it), is cheaper (if you don't purchase a support contract and most don't), but not as many apps (developers are working on this). Has the same infection rate as Mac but I expect that to get worse as more users begin to use a Linux box without hardening it. Linux does have TOO many variants though.

Understand that each OC has Pros and Cons to using it. This geek recommends Windows or Linux or to even make a dual boot system (easier than you think). Most home users will like a Mac for the stability and if they are only checking email a Mac is fine. Serious art geeks use Macs (the entire publishing world uses them I think), serious Tech geeks use Linux (Windows tools are getting better but have long way to go), everyone else uses Windows (it is more widely used).

[Doogie320]

My rants:

Mac: Every artsy-fartsy, pseudo-sophisticate uses one. The snobbery of a Mac user galls me. THEY alone have a superior product. THEY alone have the secret to the universe. Here’s a secret:
YOUR OS IS SO GREAT IT RUNS ON LINUX!!!!!!!!!
That’s right folks, Apple sucks so bad they took their GUI and put it on a Linux kernel. I think every developer they have is working on the next release of iTunes because their OS is as original as smooth peanut butter or bottled water. Your Mac looks cool but try to network it. Before Linux (I love reminding them of that) networking a Mac was like bathing a cat: you’d ask yourself if the pain was necessary. Better still, have 5 Macs on a 600 user Windows environment. You’d sell your soul to Satan to get it to connect some days. My average help desk ticket for a Mac took twice as long as a Win machine. Oh yeah, find a game for it, I dare you. Some days you can do more with a graphics calculator. Enjoy your stand alone graphics machine.

Linux: Who hasn’t developed a version of Linux today? You can’t swing a broken Windows machine without hitting a different Linux version. RedHat, Suse, Mandrake…. Even God is trying to find the end of the list. And each iteration has its own GUI, its own way of doing things, the only thing in common is the kernel and even THAT can be changed. It isn’t the most user friendly and truth be told a machine without a firewall can be hacked easier than a Windows machine. BUT you can lock it down, it integrates very well into a corporate network, and is free, or nearly so. Apps are getting better…if only we could narrow our choices down to 200 versions of the basic OS. One day I will have a doctorate in electrical engineering and be smart enough to run it. Until then I will dream….

Windows: God damn you, Bill Gates. You have made my life, and you have taken it. Your computers do more despite themselves than anything else on the planet…. When they are stable. NT 4 was an abortion, 2000 better, and XP is doing great. I GET that you are a buiness and have to release a new version every 2 weeks to make a profit but HOLY FUCK could you maybe limit this? We have 64-bit, home, Pro, CE versions…. I now have to invade Guatemala and loot the entire country to have enough capital to purchase just ONE license for each OS. The BEST part is that your multi-national conglomeration couldn’t beta test a clothespin, much less a new OS. Whole test networks exist to try your products and their patches because we have been burned too many times by your assed-up development staff. I hate you but I need you. One day I will find a single version of Linux that does the job and I will teach everyone I know to use it so that the people of Guatemala can be safe. Until then I will reboot weekly, patch and pray, and wait for the next worm to crash my network and compromise my data.

Typed using Windows XP Pro on Word 2003.

[Hoepoe]

Nice Doogie

Would have to disagree on the Linux part. VERY user friendly now and 99.9% can be achived via the user interface and not neccessarilu command line.

Never had a driver issue, and i use a Thinkpad.

I think i am a geek.

Hoepoe

[Doogie320]

Thank you Hoepoe. My Linux experience is dated by about a year. Enterprise level stuff was still done quite a bit in the shell with some of the tools we demoed..... I think the average home user though won't have to worry about that.

As an IT guy the utility of Linux can't be overlooked. M$ needs to understand this and develop Linux-like tools for her Admins or I think they will find a lot of us using dual boot to runa a Windoes network.

[B 2/75]

I think i am a geek.

Hoepoe


"I think, therefor I am..."

[SOTB]

Mac: Every artsy-fartsy, pseudo-sophisticate uses one. The snobbery of a Mac user galls me. THEY alone have a superior product. THEY alone have the secret to the universe.Oh yeah?! Well, when I hire the next guy, I'm still gonna give him this POS Dell D810 and buy me an iBook. Just because.

(Is it really that hard to network in?)

[Doogie320]

(Is it really that hard to network in?)

The one's running OS X aren't as they got away from the stupid and most ineffective AppleTalk protocol. It now uses TCP/IP like almost every other computer on the market. OS X is the os that uses Linux in the background with the Apple GUI (parts of it at least, the rest is...GNOME or a Linux inspired GUI) on top. It can be quirky, but not "pull your hair out maddening" like it used to.

Unless their security model has changed they are a PITA for a corporate environment. It was too easy for a user to do however they saw fit to with their Mac.

[Ergogirl]

Not as user friendly as Win (about the same as a Mac, IMO), some hardware may not have drivers for Linux (this is getting better).


What a timely thread..... I just installed Debian on an old laptop (a Pentium 233 MHz, with 32 MB of RAM) that was dead in the water with Win98 SE. The installer that comes with "Sarge" was good enough to get me up and running, and I'm a relative newbie with Linux. Once I loaded the desktop environment, it was all pretty straightforward.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get my Ethernet PCMCIA card to work. I guess that would be the "some hardware may not have drivers for Linux" part....
:(

[Zuzu]

I'm not a Mac snob by any stretch, but it was my first computer and I still use both platforms at work. Mac's are excellent for the jobs you mentioned. But I work with the same graphics apps on PC and there really isn't any difference between boxes. The networking issue really is more trouble than it's worth. Our work around is just to burn what we needed to CD and FedEx it to our other office. I can't see Mac maintaing a decent market share unless they bring them down to PC prices.

[Doogie320]

What a timely thread..... I just installed Debian on an old laptop (a Pentium 233 MHz, with 32 MB of RAM) that was dead in the water with Win98 SE. The installer that comes with "Sarge" was good enough to get me up and running, and I'm a relative newbie with Linux. Once I loaded the desktop environment, it was all pretty straightforward.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get my Ethernet PCMCIA card to work. I guess that would be the "some hardware may not have drivers for Linux" part....
:(

Generally speaking, the newer the distro of Linux, the better the driver support UNLESS you have an obscure piece of hardware you are trying to use.

[tova]

I am hoping to get a new laptop in a few months - I need something that will be able to handle advanced graphic/development software, MATLAB, possibly some other stuff - that is not high-maintenance (can handle rugged/outdoor environments) - any recommendations?

[Doogie320]

I don't know what the other stuff is, but graphics generally means a Mac. You CAN do them on a Win or Linux box but it means reducing the number of services that use memory and the CPU.

Pros use a Mac to handle graphics for a reason. You can do them on other machines but then the functionality of the machines becomes limited I'm told. It would depend ultimately on what your biggest priority is.

Any dissenters or I am typing by myself?:)

[Zuzu]

There used be a disparity, but I have no problem running graphics apps on PC. Much as I hate to admit it, they're about the same.

[Max Power]

Doogie, this may spell the end of our friendship, but...

I love my PowerBook. Sure, I still use my old HP laptop now and then (more so now as my PowerBook is set-up upstairs), and I love messing around on x86 machines (I've dabbled in Linux, BSD, Solaris, various Windows, and BeOS when it was still around). But for day to day use, I love my Mac. Never gives me problems. And when I feel like it, I can still mess around in BSD (Mac OS X is based off of a BSD kernel, not Linux, btw) by switching into a terminal window. I can even run X11 and the various window managers when I want to. So not only does OS X have support from quite a few manufacturers (yeah, you have to go online to buy software, you won't see it in Best Buy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, there are quite a few popular games for OS X) on the "traditional" Apple side, but you also have a whole slew of *nix applications available (and easily by using Fink & Fink Commander).

As for networking and security issues with OS X, I haven't delved too deeply into it, but because of the basis in BSD, you can MAKE OS X very secure/compatible. The GUI tools most often used do not allow you a LOT of leeway in making those changes, but there are a few GUI tools and then you can always go to the command line to make more in-depth changes.

I view Mac OS X in this way - great for people that want a straight out of the box solution, push the button and you're good to surf the 'net and view e-mail. But also good for professionals, particularly graphics professionals. And for those that want to tinker with *nix'es you have that functionality as well. Through the combination of Mac and *nix applications, you can interoperate with Windows machines very efficiently. If only Apple would capitalize on that BSD kernel and the slew of *nix applications available, I think they could gain a lot more market share.

And that's my 2 cents.

[Doogie320]

I knew some geek was buried inside of that whole macho paratrooper 11B thing.....

It is a BSD kernel? Hmm... not saying you are wrong, I never knew that and was told otherwise. Now I have to go google....

EDIT: Max is correct and I see my usefullness to the board has passed:
http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/arch_xnu.html

*nix is catching up to Windows, as is Mac (thanks to *nix) but they have a long road to go. Win isn't the answer for everything, none of them are. Like choosing a handgun or car you weigh the pros and cons, you buy it, and you live with it.

I guess we would now get into a great debate about which is better for a casual user or a first time user, especially which is easier to learn for them. I would still argue Windows based on market share and familiarity alone for a first computer because very few people use a Mac or Linux box at work. For someone checking email or surfing the web only I'd say a Windows box simply because the average home user wouldn't take the time to set up Linux. Once you get beyond those two forms of use though.... roll the dice, the disparity between them will decrease over the next few years. So, today? Windows PC..... next year/ OS release, I would say M$ will have problems unless they adjust, but right now I would still go with a M$ box for a first time or casual user.

[Doogie320]

Oh, Max... I just burned our friendship card. LOL:p

[Max Power]

Oh, Max... I just burned our friendship card. LOL:p

LOL

Oh yeah, from what I've heard, Windows Vista (the upcoming version still in beta) is supposedly a LOT like OS X (visually, at least)... looks like Microsoft is back in the game of stealing Apple's good ideas, LOL.

EDIT - Further down that BSD track, if you want to get even more detailed about OS X, look into its relationship with NeXT. M$ isn't alone in its gobbling up of smaller companies, Apple just makes it look better :D And while you're at it, look into the history of BeOS, that was a nice OS that died a stupid death before its time, IMO.

[tova]

I don't know what the other stuff is,
MATLAB is all that bullarky down below :)
http://www.mathworks.com

Technical Computing-

Mathematical computation, analysis, visualization, and algorithm development

Control DesignModel-Based Design for control systems, including simulation, rapid prototyping, and code generation for embedded systems
Signal Processing and Communications

Model-Based Design for signal processing and communication systems, including simulation, code generation, and verification
Image Processing
Image acquisition, analysis, visualization, and algorithm development
Test & Measurement
Hardware connectivity and data analysis for test and measurement applications
Computational Biology
Analysis, visualization, and simulation of biological data and systems
Financial Modeling and Analysis
Financial modeling, analysis, and application deployment

[Citizen]

I'm in the market for a new laptop.
Needs: Mostly school-related applications, basic "office" suite, dvd burner/ reader, wireless capable, decent memory but must be small. This sucker is going to travel quite a bit. The only outside-the-norm software I need is a web developer. I'm partial to FrontPage over Dreamweaver, but I believe FP has a cheap Mac version as well... or I could just suck it up and learn how to use Dreamweaver.

Given these needs and something less than $1700, what do you all recommend?

[Hoepoe]

MATLAB is all that bullarky down below :)
http://www.mathworks.com

Technical Computing-

Mathematical computation, analysis, visualization, and algorithm development

Control DesignModel-Based Design for control systems, including simulation, rapid prototyping, and code generation for embedded systems
Signal Processing and Communications

Model-Based Design for signal processing and communication systems, including simulation, code generation, and verification
Image Processing
Image acquisition, analysis, visualization, and algorithm development
Test & Measurement
Hardware connectivity and data analysis for test and measurement applications
Computational Biology
Analysis, visualization, and simulation of biological data and systems
Financial Modeling and Analysis
Financial modeling, analysis, and application deployment


Hi

I've installed Matlab on Linux. Works 100% but is very large, so you need a large HD.

Good luck

Hoepoe

[Hoepoe]

Generally speaking, the newer the distro of Linux, the better the driver support UNLESS you have an obscure piece of hardware you are trying to use.

Indeed, Ergogirl, if you like a Debian based distro, use Ubuntu or for KDE interface, Kubuntu.

Free for download at http://www.ubuntulinux.org

Good luck

Hoepoe

[Ergogirl]

Indeed, Ergogirl, if you like a Debian based distro, use Ubuntu or for KDE interface, Kubuntu.

Free for download at http://www.ubuntulinux.org

Good luck

Hoepoe

huh. I forgot about this thread.

The update to my story is Sarge stopped working on my laptop a week or two later. A friend passed me a Live CD of Knoppix which I tried on a whim and it blew me away- detected all of my components, automatically set the screen resolution, etc etc. Incredible.

I now carry a live Knoppix CD everywhere I go, I like it that much.

As for my work PC, I did install Ubuntu on it shortly after my laptop froze, but now I'm thinking I may switch to Kubuntu after seeing KDE with Knoppix.......