Goodby Triathlon..Hello Adventure Racing..Need Help With Navigation

[T-Rock]

Little did I know my life was about to change last fall while preparing for IM Florida. Nevertheless, the bitter pill of defeat is not what I have in mind (withdrew 2 months prior to race). Since I'm no longer able to swim freestyle (as advised by my doc), I'm now getting pretty psyched about adventure racing.

Since most all of you BTDT's are experts in the field of navigation, what books do you recommend pertaining to navigation & orienteering??
Keep in mind, my only experience with navigation is with a GPS getting to and from my stands & scrapes while deer hunting. I'm definetly a novice. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, T-Rock.

[pondwater]

Military Map Reading and Land Navigation is a good place to start.

Pay attention to terrain features, terrain association, route selection, pace count, orienting a map, scale, plotting points, using a protractor, declination, scale, etc.

Contact the USGS and get some topo maps of your area, get a compass and protractor go to a known point and start walking.

I don't know how much leway you have in route selection during an Adventure Race but I would guess you want to become an expert in terrain association.

Check to see if your state has an orienteering club that has some land nav courses set up in your area or classes.

Report back on how its going, I've intended to run a couple of AR's but it hasn't happened yet.

[sawbones]

T- there's a company that has a computer program for military mapping. I'm looking for the name now. You type in an area any where in the US, it pulls up a map you can print-out, looks like a standard military grid map. Send it to you as soon as I find it.

[Lurch]

What Pondwater said and always double check your shit starting from zero every time. All you need is a map and compass.

[Viking]

Excellent! Any other Adventure Racers out there?

I did one in a 36 hour one many moons ago. They are a fucking blast. Since then I've been too busy to dedicate the time it takes to be at the level I want to compete at. It also ain't cheap to get into or do.

I was the navigator for the 3M 1F team. You can throw the pace count out the window. It's all about terrain association. The one I did was in Arizona, so navigation was pretty easy (well defined terrain features there). I had the most trouble on the night kayak across the lake. Best I could do was put the compass out in front of me and try to stay on the azimuth I plotted. We still had to skirt some coastline for a little ways.

The way that particular race worked was, the night before the race,we received all of the points we had to hit during race. So I plotted them all and plotted routes. It took forever and we lost a lot of valuable sleep, but I couldn't imagine going out there without preparing. You've got enough to worry about (like 15 flat tires. Yes, 15 :D) without trying to plot the next point.

The name of that computer program is TOPO! It rocks indeed.

Man, you got me fired up with this thread. Post more questions if you got em.

[T-Rock]

The feedback is appreciated. I'll take the following and run with it!!
Military Map Reading and Land Navigation is a good place to start.

I don't know how much leway you have in route selection during an Adventure Race but I would guess you want to become an expert in terrain association.

Check to see if your state has an orienteering club that has some land nav courses set up in your area or classes.

Report back on how its going, I've intended to run a couple of AR's but it hasn't happened yet.
there's a company that has a computer program for military mapping.
The name of that computer program is TOPO! It rocks indeed.
always double check your shit starting from zero every time. All you need is a map and compass.
They are a fucking blast.

Turns out there's an orienteering club roughly 1 hour from where I live. I'm in the process of checking with them today.
Viking, although I've only participated in 1 of these type races before (1998/43hrs virtually nonstop), you're right, they're a fookin blast! At 42 I'm not ready to be sidelined to the couch just yet :D
Thanks again for the ideas.....T-Rock

[CV]

Land Nav races? Shit, post links... I'm interested!

[T-Rock]

Hope this helps CV :

http://www.oarevents.com/

http://www.racedaycompany.com/siteupgrade/ngarhome.php

http://www.riversportsadventures.com/fallcreek/main.htm

http://www.ex2adventures.com/venturequest-ar.php

http://www.noc.com/

And here is a club that holds strictly orienteering events:

http://www.carolina-ok.org/h_faq.html#q1

Take Care, T-Rock

[DunbarFC]

I've done one and worked a bunch of adventure races

The real key is good navigation.

I've seen the pros up close and while their gear is the latest and lightest, the one thing they always keep an eye on and focus on is the map

I spent the better part of one night out with the race organizer in the hills outside Boston chasing down teams that were totally lost. They had the most expensive racing kit I'd ever seen, and still got lost.

The other thing I've seen as key is don't treat your female teammate as a piece for required gear. Make sure they can match your pace, and that you treat them like part of the team. I've seen more than one woman tell a team to go fuck themselves and walk off a race for the way the guys were treating her

[sarc88]

I started with the Eco and ran a few smaller ones, crewed one. I recommend the Outward Bound guide to maps and navigation - kindergarten level to advaanced LN topics.

Brenden

[Zulu6]

T-Rock,
Im a triathlete but I do adventure races as well. I like adventure races because its a different spectrum in terms of laterial training. I've done 2 Beast of the East both Solo and another adventure race in Sweden. They both SUCKED BIG TIME! But the mental edge I gained from it is priceless.

Enjoy it because it is alot of fun. The Team that I went with to Sweden, we will go to Thailand for the race there in 07. Oddysey.com has a lot of adventure race links to choose from.
Good luck bro.
larV

[rnix]

Larfive, Congrats on doing The Beast of the East. If you have time to answer some questions I'm curious as to what your training consisted of before doing the race? Was it mostly running or rucking? I've done the Ironman but no adventure races to date and am in the process of learning the land nav and making the transition to adventure races. Hopefully, I am going to compete in several this spring. Doing the Beast solo has become a goal of mine and I was just wondering if you had any advice for someone whose looking to make the transistion in terms of training with the Beast in mind.

[Jerome Conners]

Orienteering speed = terrain association+route selection+physical conditioning (running and agility)

Jer
Chinese Bandit 13
http:/www.geocities.com/d6566mustangs

[ilots]

Edited * Looking up the thread chain - I didn't notice JC's 9month bump.

what books do you recommend pertaining to navigation & orienteering?? Keep in mind, my only experience with navigation is with a GPS getting to and from my stands & scrapes while deer hunting. I'm definetly a novice. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, T-Rock.

I would suggest rather than reading books, try and find a local orienteering club/org/assoc. The one nearest me conducts monthly (typically) events with various ranges of difficulty. While the courses may not have all the draws of Mackall, they can be more than challenging enough to keep your interest. Most of these organizations put on clinics for your skill level - they focus on a variety of map, compass, and TA skills & core comps., with a great deal of competence. Such an org would offer both the chance to learn and test your skills, from plotting and route selection to movements.

[gdamadg]

We have a competition here on the Base that usually gathers a crowd. It's our own Adventure Race of sorts. I think there were a couple civilian competitors this year and I'm sure if any one was interested and could make the trip up to compete, they would all be welcome.

The Ironman at CFB Petawawa (http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/English/6_1_1.asp?id=800)

Participants had to carry a 40-pound rucksack over the entire course of the race that began with a 32-kilometre rucksack march. This was followed by a 4-kilometre canoe portage and canoeing for a distance of 8 kilometres on the Ottawa River. Competitors then had to march of 6 kilometres to the finish line for a grand total of 50 kilometres.

An early start: 4:00 a.m.!

Out west they have a similar event called the Mountainman.
Mountainman (http://www.armee.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=1354)

The course consisted of four legs and each participant had to carry a rucksack weighing no less than 15 kilograms. The first section of the race was a 31.6 kilometre march from Hawrelak Park to Capilano Park, the turn around point.

For the next leg, each participant had to pick up two 17-kilogram sandbags for a 3.2 kilometre carry to Emily Murphy Park. "This is where the pain really begins," one competitor was heard to say as he picked up his sandbags.

For the third part of the race, participants went from land to water by trading in their sandbags for canoes and paddling a distance of 10 kilometres. The canoeists travelled a stretch down the North Saskatchewan River and exited near Capilano Park, battling the wind the entire time.

Participants in Mountain Man 2006 prepare to beach their canoes at the exit point of the 10 km canoe paddle.
Participants in Mountain Man 2006 prepare to beach their canoes at the exit point of the 10 km canoe paddle.
A 5.6 kilometre run with the ever-so-unforgiving rucksacks from the canoe drop off point to the finish line at Forest Heights Park concluded the race.

[ag4tj]

Hope this helps CV :
http://www.oarevents.com/
http://www.racedaycompany.com/siteupgrade/ngarhome.php
http://www.riversportsadventures.com/fallcreek/main.htm
http://www.ex2adventures.com/venturequest-ar.php
http://www.noc.com/
And here is a club that holds strictly orienteering events:
http://www.carolina-ok.org/h_faq.html#q1
Take Care, T-Rock

I did a couple of Fix's with OAR when I was at Campbell. It was a blast. And there was leeway for route selection (carrying mountain bikes down a sheer drop to shave off road miles.)
The orienteering events are a good way to learn how to terrain associate at speed.
If OAR still offers it, I would recommend volunteering to work an OAR race in order to compete in one later on for free.

Take Care, T-Rock[/QUOTE]

[T-Rock]

If there happens to be anyone in NC interested, here's a pretty low key race not far from me: http://www.overmountainextremear.com/

Unfortunately, my partner and I didn't get to do it this year because of this:

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showpost.php?p=778055&postcount=9


Nevertheless, I'm going to start the base phase soon for next year if I can persuade any of my tri-geek buddys into trying something new.....anybody interested...:D ?

[PocketKings]

Kinda off topic but NBC will have Ironman Kona coverage today (9 DEC) at 1500 Central. Watch Stadler and Macca in one of the best Ironmen since Allen and Scott.

[KSM]

Ironic...
I was just browsing through REI today and there was a book (I believe it was simply called "Orienteering") about just this topic. I'm assuming you're talking about the map and compass races through the woods? It had tips on everything, including gear selection (compass type, map, even clothing).

[KSM]

Here's a link...
"Orienteering" by Ian Bratt

http://www.rei.com/product/699697

also available from Amazon and some other places...

[Pickpocket]

I bought that one on a whim several months ago wondering if it had any ancient Chinese secrets in it - if you've got any decent Land Nav experience, this book isn't for you. However, for those looking to get started and wish to learn more about the "sport" of orienteering, then it's got lots of good info. Don't expect it to have lots of techniques and tricks, and it doesn't spend a lot of time on SKILLS. With that said, if someone wants the book let me know and I'll send it to you; just pay it forward.
Some guys where I work recruited me onto their AR team last year specifically because they needed a strong navigator, and after one 8-hour sprint I was hooked. It is an expensive hobby, indeed.

We're gearing up to do two good races in Texas this year; a 24-hour in May and a 30-hour in August. The coordinators for TooCool are sadistic - so the races are awesome. Next year, if we can find the scratch - we're going to try for Raid the North Extreme! Anyone else in Texas? We do need some females...

http://www.toocoolracing.com