MOS/SF Question

[Jaster]

I’d appreciate & need some input, advice and guidance from those who’ve actually “been there & done that”.

My son is enlisting in the Army out of high school so 18X is not an option. He’ll graduate this May and leave for Basic in Sept. He scored very well on his ASVAB (if the scores are needed please let me know & I’ll forward them). His plan is to apply for SF when he can. The MOS he has chosen is 97E- he’s extremely good at languages (he hasn’t taken the DLAB yet) and a smart kid. He has not signed a contract yet. That gives you some background...

My question is centered on what MOS in particular, if any, gives you a better shot at SF on down the road. He tells me that it doesn’t matter, but to me (without a military background) it seems like someone from a combat related MOS would have a better chance. Or would the 97E give him a valuable background when he gets ready to apply for SF?

From reading some of the prior threads it seems like 97E is a pretty good start, but I would like to hear some additional informed opinions on this.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim

[Guy]

In my sig-line you will see a couple of links...read them and let us know if they don't answer your questions.

Take care and stay safe!

[GackMan]

Intel people are making it into SF, but I wouldn't think that they are the best prepared.

I was an MI guy and, although some jobs in the intelligence field will prepare a person with combat skills and small unit leadership, generally they don't have a whole lot of training and skills in that area. e.g. as a SIGINT guy, they could be doing real world collection, sneaking and peaking, running small unit independent operations, etc. and be very solid. However, they could also be stuck in a dilbert cube for 4 years. All in the luck of the draw.

Plus, word around the campfire is that 97Es aren't getting languages in initial enlistment anymore.

edit to add: I was a 98G and our branch at DA wouldn't let us go to SFAS - I have a stack of 4187s in a box in my attic somewhere. They actually pulled a group of guys out of the pipeline in the late 90s and sent them back to their unit. So the MOS he choses could very well hurt his chances of going SF.

[ExSquid]

If your boy really wants to be SF than his best bet is the Infantry. Plain and simple that is where he will get the most relevant experience. My suggestion, have him do RIP. Some very squared away young soldiers come out of the Battalions. Plus his odds of getting selected are much better at 22 than at 18.

x/S

[Jaster]

Thanks for the input. It is very much appreciated.


Guy- the sites are very helpful...a ton of useful info. The last link is “under construction” currently. I’ll keep checking it. Thanks.


GackMan & ExSquid, If I'm understanding what you’re saying, one of the biggest advantages the 11b SF applicant has is the much larger amount of knowledge of, small unit, infantry tactics and techniques, as well as a more physically demanding MOS that will go much further in preparing the SF applicant for the physical demands of SFAS, etc.

Also ExSquid...a civilian question- RIP=Ranger Indoctrination Program?


If I could ask two more questions to get this clear in my mind...

Does the soldier’s chain of command have final decision-making power as to whether a soldier can go to SFAS?

Does a non-11b SF-hopeful get the same consideration for attending SFAS? Or is he looked at as automatically less qualified since he doesn’t have the same degree of real world experience? Do attending RIP, being Jump Qualified, etc. give a soldier wanting to get to SFAS an advantage in the initial selection process for SFAS.

I really appreciate your input and help...and especially your service.


Jim

[gregorm]

I have been a long-time lurker and recently came across this thread. It happens to be very relevant to my current situation; I'm in the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) as a 97E. I also have very serious aspirations to become a member of Special Forces. I'll be finishing high school in May and then will leave for Ft. Benning on July 20th to attend basic.

When I walked into the Recruiters Office I was already well aware of the 18x program and initially it was what I wanted to do. He informed me that the program was currently filled up. Instead, he offered me the 97E position which he said would be just fine for transferring into SF. While he was most likely feeding me a line of crap to get me to join, 97E did indeed look intriguing. The way I figured I could get MI training, experience in Iraq (I hear they are deploying Echos straight over there), and possible language training all before I start SFAS.

Yet, what GackMan posted has gotten me a bit worried. It would be pure hell if I was ever pulled out of the pipeline for those reasons.

I would appreciate anyone commenting on this thread as it would help both Jaster's son and myself very much. SF has been a dream of mine and is something I take very seriously.

[magician]

Ok. I will take a shot at this.

I was never a PAC clerk, nor do I have current familiarity with Army procedures, but I did draft and submit more than my fair share of 4187's many years ago, most of which resulted in favorable actions.

As I recall, the soldier's chain of command must forward a 4187 Request for Personnel Action. The chain of command has the option to endorse or recommend denial of the request, but as I understand it, the unit chain of command cannot unilaterally squelch the request. That said, pieces of paper do get lost, or go astray.

I think that it is not helpful, at this point, to stress about whether you will be able to submit a 4187 to attend SFAS at some point in the future. You have many other challenges ahead of you that are intervening, and they will require your utmost dedication and attention.

Whether the Army, in its infinite wisdom, permits soldiers with specific MOSs to attend SFAS or not is variable. It changes with the needs of the Army. There is no way to predict these changes.

The Intel MOSs that you are pursuing are very worthy. If you spend an entire enlistment completing your training and your initial assignment, earning your enlistment bonus, and then reenlist to go SF on your next tour, you will be doing well.

SF needs seasoned soldiers from a broad array of background specialities. When you get to an ODA, should you survive the pipeline to actually end up on a team, you will be grateful that you have guys who were mechanics, technicians, gun bunnies, cannon cockers, submariners, cooks, electronics repairmen, whatever, on your detachment.

A great SF soldier is not just a guy who has survived the pipeline through skill, perseverance, luck and agility. He is also a soldier who brings previous experience to the equation. And you just never know when that experience might prove useful.

Nothing is cooler than being in the middle of nowhere and finding out that one of your team mates just happens to have key specialist expertise that you need on no notice.

Unless it is actually being that guy who gets to save the day.

The Q Course cannot prepare you for all eventualities. What it really does is prepare you to learn, it prepares you to fit onto a detachment without being a complete liability, and it prepares you to begin your career in SF, which means that it really places you on a path to train endlessly for the remainder of your days, until you die, retire, or you go do something else.

Worry about keeping your nose clean and graduating from high school. Then, worry about doing well in Basic. Then, take each gateway as it comes, in order, and establish a pattern and habit of excelling in all things that you do.

The rest will fall into place, if it is truly meant to be.

Good luck, and thanks for enlisting.

[Libertine]

I'm in the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) as a 97E. I also have very serious aspirations to become a member of Special Forces. I'll be finishing high school in May and then will leave for Ft. Benning on July 20th to attend basic.

When I walked into the Recruiters Office I was already well aware of the 18x program and initially it was what I wanted to do. He informed me that the program was currently filled up.

I can't help with this rest of the thread, but I can help with this. People drop out of the DEP all the time. That leaves empty seats on a plane and empty racks in the platoon bay. Recruiters want to fill those racks, end of story.

If you really want 18X, call you recruiter and tell him you aren't leaving MEPS without an 18X contract, but you'll ship tomorrow (after you graduate) if he gets you one. If you meet all the requirements and he's worth a damn, he'll get you an 18X contract for whenever (June 2017), but he'll check back in with the MEPS guys until an 18X drops out of the DEP. Tell him you're flexible and will leave whenever, but you won't leave without an 18X contract.

I did this, and I shipped to Benning a month later (on two weeks' notice).

[SKYGOD76]

I hope I can help your cause with this one. For the 18X program SOF is seeking guys that have completed college or at least a 2 year degree. Being a 97 would only help your son on the language portion of (SFQC) the Q Course that is after selection. Your son may go 97 and when he makes E-4 he can submit a 4187 requesting Special Forces Training. The HQ USA SF Recriuting Command phone # is 910-432-1818. They can help him with all of that stuff. They will even give him a train up bool if he decides to enter the army as a 97 then request training. My best Advice is to have him tell the recruiter that he wants to be 18X and he ain't gonna sign shit until he gets what he wants. I happen to know for a fact that the 18X program is only at about 65% strenght right now. If you have any more questions you may send me a privete message and I would be glad to answer any questions you or your son may have..

Good Luck
"Opressors Beware"

[rngrjoem]

I’d appreciate & need some input, advice and guidance from those who’ve actually “been there & done that”.

My son is enlisting in the Army out of high school so 18X is not an option. He’ll graduate this May and leave for Basic in Sept. He scored very well on his ASVAB (if the scores are needed please let me know & I’ll forward them). His plan is to apply for SF when he can. The MOS he has chosen is 97E- he’s extremely good at languages (he hasn’t taken the DLAB yet) and a smart kid. He has not signed a contract yet. That gives you some background...

My question is centered on what MOS in particular, if any, gives you a better shot at SF on down the road. He tells me that it doesn’t matter, but to me (without a military background) it seems like someone from a combat related MOS would have a better chance. Or would the 97E give him a valuable background when he gets ready to apply for SF?

From reading some of the prior threads it seems like 97E is a pretty good start, but I would like to hear some additional informed opinions on this.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim

If he can't get 18X, he needs to go Infantry. That gives him the foundation (skills) he'll need to succeed in SFAS and SUT. He can get the language skills (although not to the same degree) in the SF Pipeline. If he's serious about wanting to go SF, he either continue to work for an 18X contract or he'll sign an Option 40 (Ranger Contract). The question is, how serious is he about SF?

Tell him to read Clancy's book and my book (http://www.specialops.org/news.asp#book) so he knows what he's getting himself into.

It's a decision he'll have to make.