M-4/M-16 slings

[MEP]

I was watching the Navy/Marine Corp News and I saw this Marine with a M-4/M-16 sling that looked pretty nifty and was wondering what type it was. It went over his right shoulder and a bit came down from the left to met at the rifle, he was left handed. My description is pretty vague but if anyone has any idea maybe they could lead me to the right direction for finding out. I was also wondering if anyone has used this and if it was any good.
Thanks

[Tripp]

Could have been a HK sling... After some simple modification they work well with many other firearms.

Tripp

[JY]

Hi Mep;

We have two types of slings for the M4A1 and for the M16A2s, both are actually only long "silent" types(some even use the padded M-60 type with the padded section).

The first uses a wire delta shaped clip that snaps around the front sight tower on the rear angled section and the sling then threads through it, on a rifle there is an included web strap that goes through the rear sling swivel so the sling is then threaded through the strap and then the weapon is carried assualt style.On the M4 familt you fasten the sling normally on the tele-stock.

The second system is much better, Knights make a two piece plate the bolts togather inside the front sight tower with a hole and groove set up on each side, you use the push button quick release swivels on you sling both ends for M4's as the rear is similar to the front and fits in the lower slot of the plastic sliding butt. The swivels snap in, to remove you push a button in the swivel head, making removal quick and easy(in combat situation the sling should be off the weapon) then roll it up and stash in pocket. This is the system I use and like the best it carries well in patrol position and comes off quickly when you want it off. Plus all sling swivels that come on the weapon are removed, no longer needed, so there's no noise from the front flopping around when the slig is off. Another benifit is the sling can be mounted on either side for port/starboard carry, or to mount on right side so sling will not interfear with M203 locking lever operation.

A third method is the field exped. of para cord through rear swivel and wrapped over top of stock then attach sling, and para cord through front sight tower and attach sling. This is the "Israeli" style method, it works and is cheap. used this prior to the Knights system. The issue modification kit is noisy and the front swivel rattles too.

A fourth is the private purchase "Boonie Packer" sling a rather involved sling attached to the rear sling point either rifle or M4 with the sling top mounted on a strap and the front attached to a aircraft cable loop(web covered) that surrounds the hand guards and fastens into the front sling swivel with a tab. A nice set up but slow and hard to remove.

Hope this helps out MEP, there are probably a few I missed, like the GILES more suitable for police than military, and others made privately but these are the most common in use ones. Take care, and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year...Jim

[MEP]

Thanks Tripp and JY for you help. When I saw the way the weapon was held with this sling I though it was superior to the sling I've seen used by AF Security Police, that just rest the M-16 on the should. The sling mentioned (I'm still not sure of it's name, will have to find a picture of it)looks like the weapon is at a more ready to use position. Thanks again for your help. Happy Holidays to you and your families.

[Yossi]

Jy

There is something I always wondered about. You say “in combat situation the sling should be off the weapon”. Well since you are familiar with the IDF you probably knows that the Israeli combat theory
Is to carry the weapon with the sling located on the neck of the operator in all scenarios (except maybe in some CQB situations in which the sling is taken off the neck or removed completely). How do you explain the difference between these two methods? Which do you found better?

As far as I know the main reasons why the IDF’s solders always carry the weapon with the sling on their neck is because that way it will never fall away from you and it’s gives the operator an extra support while firing. Also, in close range scenarios it’s harder to take the weapon from you if you are taken by surprise. Again this is as far as I know, I might be wrong though.

Thanks in advance

Yossi

[JY]

hi Yossie;

We like the sling off the weapon for just those same reasons. The enemy can grab your weapon in CQB and use the sling to do you in, not good. With the sling on the weapon can become intangled in brush, rubble and such trappining you. The sling makes noise, also not good. And with the weapon on sling you tend to get to relaxed, and the weapon is not ready when needed.

The IDF carry is easy to duck out of if caught or grabbed, US carry goes over kneck and under strong side arm, hard to get out of when you have to. Most SF units remove the sling (and use quiet means to attach sling when used) and keep the weapon at low ready (butt stock above strong arm, muzzle down) which is quicker for well aimed double taps.The SAS never uses a sling on a combat rifle/carbine and all swivels are removed.

I noticed that the IDF had a habit of resting their arms over the weapon when on the move, meaning the weapon was really not under their control, in an ambush or sudden encounter time was wasted getting the weapon into a firing position. Those I worked with began removing the sling and adopting the low ready carry, they become impressed when on signal you both have to aim and fire two quick shots into a target at close range (20-50 meters) and the man using the low ready has his two shots off into the target and the sling user is still bringing his weapon up from the slung position and trying to get the sling out of the way. The sling works well with large regular formations, but is sure death for SF units and small patrols, the web sling is for transport not combat(in reguards to assault weapons, MAGists need them). Plus you develope large strong forearms to impress the ladies at Taba beach 8)

Catch you latter my friend...Jim

[Yossi]

But how about CQB/CT scenarios? Would you still carry the weapon without the sling?

Even in the opening picture in this site the marine FR are carrying their mp5sd with a sling (Maybe they were influenced by their training in Israel :-))...

Yossi

[JY]

hi Yossie;

In CQB a sling is an asset when you have to make the transition from your primary weapon to a handgun, repelling, or at times you need both hands for other business such as breaching charge set up. And is generally used in such situations but in the field under "normal" combat ops, no they make to much noise and get in the way.

Plus the MP5 is dead here 8) And Marines are not part of SOCOM. Most operators prefer the issue M4A1(a few may like the little toy subguns, but the number of them are dropping)

So for SWAT ops, all that CQB really is, the sling is fine and needed, that's why the new quick detach mounts for the sling, so you can take it off for combat and attach it for CQB.

take care...Jim

[Mark92a]

All,

You can check out a contender for the new Govt contract M16/M4 sling at www.specialtyplastics.com (http://www.specialtyplastics.com)

Nice pics, but looked even better in real life. Hopefully Uncle will buy it!
More info will follow as it becomes availible on it! Hope this helps!
--Mark

[Razor]

I'm by no means an expert on all this, but I did find a cheap and effective way to sling an M4A1 when the time called for it. I used the clamp on KAC sling swivel JY talked about for the front end, and the standard thread through keeper for the rear slot on the tele-stock (didn't have access to the high speed detachable swivel JY spoke of 8^> ). Anyhow, it was the standard top mounted patrol sling, but I slung it around my neck, with the sling over my right shoulder and under my left arm. In this manner, when I released the rifle, it fell barrel down off to my left, clearing my right side to facilitate drawing my pistol. No fancy gear (except the venerable M4), no fancy set up, just unique sling routing on the body. Oh, this also kept the buttstock up near my firing shoulder, so coming back to a firing position was quick and easy. Food for thought for all out there on a shoestring gear budget.

[reconsweden]

Heres some input from our armed forces. The sling is used only around the neck except when the weapon is carried on your back(while digging an such). The one exception to that is when on guard duty(can´t avoid that can you), because then you attach the sling to the two rear positions on the weapon(mod. FNC)to have it hanging under your arm so that you can use both hands for checking ID and such. The reason for having it around the neck is that you can hold the weapon with only one hand(holding it by the pistol grip). Before you thrash me for that I have to tell you that there are many times when you need to use one hand, one exampel is when you get up after firing from a prone position where you have to use either your hands or elbows if you want to keep the weapon pointed at the enemy(not rolling to get up that is) and also it helps when reloading to keep the the weapon on target(you keep one round in the chamber...) and when throwing grenades and signaling to squad members. Of course this is individual and its better to teach people to use the sling instead of them losing the weapon when they fall...
In recon we usually don´t use the sling since it gets in the way when we are "staying low" when moving. Of course you should have the weapon in what JY call´s "low ready", doesn´t everyone?

[recce_o]

I'm no CQC master, but when I'm on patrol my solution is to loop an 8 inch length of paracord through the front sling swivel and up around the top of the handguard. This creates a 4" loop to which I attached the front of a regular M16 sling, then attach to other end of the sling through the slot on the buttstock and around the buffer tube. I then carry my C9/M4 as Razor suggested. It forces you to carry your weapon at the ready and keeps the weapon accessable when you have to read a map, get on the radio etc.

The question I have is whether the front of the handguard would get hot enough to melt the paracord. Haven't had the privledge of putting that many rounds down range all at once.

Another interesting technique which I've seen entire A-Teams do is to mount the side sling swivel to the left side of the barrel under the front sight. Then tie a piece of taut paracord from the front swivel to the slot in the butt stock (with the buttstock extended). Then attach both ends of the sling to this piece of paracord so that they run freely up and down the cord. You can then carry the sling around your neck or over the right shoulder and under the left (if you're right handed). The M4 hangs down the front of your body pointed at your feet and easily allows you to draw your secondary weapon if that becomes necessary. A nice cheap field expedient, but I find the weapon gets in the way excessively when carried like this.

[veil]

Recce... you mentioned your "C9" - could you give me some more info on this gun and how it's different from the C8/C8a1?

-Veil

[rakkasan187]

hi recce

in response to your question regarding the front site post heating up enough to melt your field expedient patrol sling....the answer is yes...i learned that lesson the hard way...this occured during an ambush when 3 mags were put down range quickly...when i got up to start moving back to our ORP i found my sling was no longer attached to the front of my weapon...as JY and others have said i should not have had my sling attached so ultimately it was my mistake but thats how you learn....aside from having a broke dick sling i also had melted plastic all over my barrel and front site post which was a real bitch to scrub off.....hope this helps.....take care

rakkasan

[recce_o]

Rakkasan, thanks for the info.

Veil, sorry, I fat fingered the keyboard. I meant to type "C8". In fact, the C9 is Canada's version of the M249/Minimi (It's identical, except that we mount the infamous Elcan on a rail on the feed cover).

C8A1? Does that mean that the Dutch mount an elcan on the C8? All the C8's I've seen have iron sights.

[Mark92a]

Recee,

I can second the "The 550 cord melts when putting rounds downrange" Anyone have any comments on the SPP sling??

--Mark

[veil]

Recce - the Dutch Korps Commandotroepen (Green berets) are issued a flattop C8 (c8a1) with an elcan on it. Strange enough, the C8 carbine is only issued to our MP's - i wonder what they need em for...except parading around and locking up drunkards...grrr.

-Veil, who thinks he deservers a C8 too.

[recce_o]

Back to the 550 cord, I think I was misunderstood. The paracord only contacts the handguard and the front sling swivel, not the front sight mount. I can understand if the front sight mount gets hot because the gas tube runs through it, but the conventional sling would go through the front swivel and the latest high speed tac. slings wrap around the front handguard any way, neither of these melt, right?

Let me know if I'm being an idiot, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't misunderstood.