Weapons in Movies

[ASD]

Hey Guys,

I was wondering if you guys have the same proble like I do, naming the weapons in movies. Like everytime I go to watch a movie I would laways be annoying nameing the weapons and their flaws. Like in movies like "Saving Pvt. Ryan," my firends get annoying when i tell them aall about the weapons.

So you guys get this problem?

Take Care,
ASD

[veil]

On seldom occasions, i point out funny mistakes in movieguns and get weird faces, after which my company of the moment usually replies "you're the professional..." or something. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[kalashnikov]

I unconsciously identify each weapon in a movie in my head, but I generally don't say the name out loud, depending on the present company. The most common mistake is assault rifles and submachine guns with bottomless magazines. I mean, even the "professional" characters in the movie have terrible ammo discipline, and all seem to have 100 round mags for their MP5s, that happen to look identical to the 30-rounders.

[This message has been edited by kalashnikov (edited 01-12-2000).]

[TR]

Probably my favorite pair of movie blunders come from the movie "Red Heat" in which the bad guy uses a derringer and gets three shots out of a standard two barrel model!
That and Arnie telling us his Russian pistol is the most powerfull pistol and is clearly a Israeli/American Desert Eagle with an extended barrel...

SIGH

Oh well we don't go to the movies expecting accuracy it seems!

T.R.

[shurefire]

I'd like to say that there are a couple movies that do all right in terms of accuracy. Case in point, the fire discipline of Robert Deniro's character and his band of robbers in the movie HEAT. The sounds in that movie are dead on too, you can hear the echos of the firing off of the buildings. The reason for the realistic pro weapons handling was because Andy McNab, made famous with his books BravoTwoZero and Immediate Action was the technical (weapons) advisor for the picture. JY & TR-I think you should do this advising stuff if you aren't active anymore, you could make a pretty penny and improve technical and tactical accuracy! Cheers.
Shure

[Yossi]

What was that wired looking SMG use by Pachino in that firing scene?

One thing in HEAT I found funny is that 2 grobbers had car15/m4 and the other one had an old IMI Galil AR. they could have a least give him Galil sar or even better the micro version (mar).

Yossi

[ASD]

Veil,

I'm not an expert I just know some things. Im just a regular guys who know's something about weapons. I'm not even in the military, but I plan to join it. I never even fired a gun, lol. I 'm just interested in the military.

Take Care,
ASD

[recce_o]

Heat? Awesome. Never seen a Hollywood firefight quite as good. You can tell it was choreographed by a pro.

In answer to the question, Pacino had an FNC carbine, which is in 5.56 x 45 mm.

[TR]

Paccino's character probably used a semiauto variant of the FNC Carbine-they offered them at one point here in the States for law enforcement types. HEAT was a good movie-they had some excellent advisors working for them...

As to doing that sort of thing shurfire seeing how I'm just a civie with no military background my chances are less than JY's...

Thanks all the same

T.R.

[veil]

I agree, the firefight in HEAT was pretty damn good. Also moderately acceptable in this area was the rock (except for the "stand and spray" kind of habit the "seals" showed.

Btw i never knew McNab had anything to do with HEAT? Interesting.

Btw ASD : You probably know alot more about guns than i do. I was never really interested in guns until i actually fired one. That really sold me.

-Veil

[ASD]

Veil,

How did it feel when you first fire one. Anyway's I'm not too much of an expert on weapons. I'm more of an fighter pilot expert. I plan to join the military and be one? Again I'm just interested in anything that has to do with the military.

Take Care,
ASD

[ASD]

Veil,

What does the "BTW" in your message mean? Just curious.

Take Care,
ASD

[TR]

BTW typically stands for By The Way...

T.R.

[Mason]

Heat is indeed a pretty good movie. The firefight was wicked too. I just thought it was kinda unrealistic that none of the robbers got shot during the actual fight on the streets... I mean, they were shot at from two different sides by like 30 to 40 cops. In reality they never even would have survived it for 3 minutes. Just my opinion... what do ya think?

Mason

[veil]

BTW : Beer, Testosterone and Weapons : the worst combination ever! lol. Naw. TR was right - By The Way.

About the first time...it's hard to explain, maybe TR or JY can join in. It was quite special for me, the anticipation before pulling the trigger, the way the '7 tapped me against the shoulder..mm http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif I just really had to get used to the noise. And the fact that i couldn't hit anything at first. heh.

Mason, about the heat scene : Cops aren't trained to cope with a military-style rollback with automatic weapons so i guess most of em we're taking cover behind something with their eyes closed - trying to remember their training.

-Veil

P.s. - I dont mean to degrade law enforcement officers here - they shouldn't have to face automatic weaponry anyhow...

[TR]

Or Beet, Testoserone and Women... now there's a combination!

:-)

As far as the sequence in HEAT, I recall that FBI shooting in the 80's down in Florida in which two suspects armed with assault rifles wounded and killed a disporitonate number of FBI agents. When it actually gets down to the thick of it you can never truly say what will and won't happen.

Besides in the end it's STILL a movie and the dictates of the writer, producer and director go into the final cut...

As for the first time shooting, yeah it's special in that you get awakened to a whole new world. You see what a firearms can do and realize the responsibility of firing (much less using) one. though I have no idea what you mean by noise... I always wore ear protection so that 357 Magnum with full Mag loads always sounded pretty tame!

:-)

Until Later

T.R.

[recce_o]

Ok guys, the sexual parallels re. shooting for the first time are getting a little too strong here!

Re Heat: It is just a movie, but, you have to keep in mind that the fire fight resulted in 75% casualites. Of the four shooters, two were killed (the driver and Tom Sizemore), one was wounded (Val Kilmer) and one escaped unharmed (DeNiro).

If you read about the initial contact in Bravo 2-0, you start to understand where McNabb was coming from when he designed the Heat firefight. There was all kinds of fire coming down on the Bravo 2-0 patrol. McNabb remembers a fastex buckle on his rucksack disintegrating as he reached down to it with his hand, close call! Point is, that Bravo 2-0 got lucky in their initial firefight, and perhaps McNabb created a similar situation in Heat.

Additionally, the Heat gang displayed superior tactics which allowed their partially successful escape. I've watched the scene so many times that I'm embarrassed, but, here's my take on what happened: The police set up a cordon around the bank, with the intention of ambushing the gang once they were all in the get away car. When the gang makes first contact, DeNiro, as the leader makes a quick assessment and gives the order to "Go!", which initiates the immediate action drill of driving as fast as possible to get out of the kill zone.

In fact, they are successful in getting out of the kill zone, which was where the majority of the cops would have been. After driving a couple of hundred meters, they make it to an intersection which is cordoned off by three or four cars and a handful of police. At this point their vehicle gets disabled, one bandit is killed, and they dismount. They commence employing fire and movement and advance toward the cordon to break through. The rest of the cops are a couple of hundred meters behind, and hence, are not an immediate threat because they only have 9mm's and shotguns (BTW, until recently LAPD patrol officers were not authorized to use slugs).

One of the bandits gets cut off and is later cornered and killed. The remaining two manage to break through the cordon, hijack a vehicle and escape.

Lucky? Perhaps. We should, however, give them credit because they did everything right. They took along the right tools for the job and consequently were able to employ overwhelming firepower. They had well reheared tactics and immediate action drills and employed those tactics agressively and without hesitation. They seized the initiative, maintained their momentum and moved fast.

Cops might carry guns, but they are not fighters. Their goal is to avoid the use of violence. That's why we call them peace officers. They don't teach fire and movement or the L shaped ambush at the police academy, because that just isn't their job, nor should it be. The use of such techniques occurs so infrequently that the knowledge and training is centralized in SWAT. The Heat gang knew that, and got the hell out of Dodge before the Cavalry could arrive and give them some serious resistance.

[shurefire]

recce_0- Definetly I agree, peace officers aren't trained in the ways as much as they should be. (?) Anyway, the scene in Heat seemed to haunt us in real life in the infamous "Hollywood Shoout Out" where two assailants had full auto conversions of AK style and Hk91 I believe. That exemplified the terror of normal police officers with only duty pistols and shotguns. They were overwhelmed with the superior weapons and cyclic rate from the two robbers. The two robbers weren't eventually stopped and subsequently killed until LAPD SWAT officers got into the fray. I remember I was in high school and was watching this shoot out live in english class and immediately had thoughts of Heat. It's surprising that stuff like this doesn't happen everyday though, considering the abundant select fire weapons in the hands of citizen civilians-as well as in the hands of not so civil civilians.
Shure

[ASD]

Veil,

Thanks for informing on what "BTW" meant. Also thnks for your version TR. About shooting your first gun, I think I should find that out when I join the military.

Thanks,
ASD

[TR]

Glad to help ASD... that's why I'm here (I think)

:-)

T.R.

[JY]

I'm going for a bucket of water, sounds like this group is in "Heat" hehehe.

I'm sorry I missed this movie, can see Veil drooling on the keys 8) And my partner T.R.'s eyes are glazed over 8) Gotta get that water on 'em fast 8)

catch you latter, enjoy,...Jim

[veil]

TR : My first encounter with the C7 was without hearing protection on an outdoor range. The sooner you get used to the blasting (ie : turn deaf) the better.

And JY : The heat scene is very impressive indeed. The whole movie is anyway - Pacino and the Niro in one. yay.

About the sexual parallels : yeah. I guess you can compare it to your other first time http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[D.E. Watters]

TR wrote:

As far as the sequence in HEAT, I recall that FBI shooting in the 80's down in Florida in which two suspects armed with assault rifles wounded and killed a disporitonate number of FBI agents. When it actually gets down to the thick of it you can never truly say what will and won't happen.

Actually, one of the perps, Michael Platt, accounted for all of the FBI casualties (2 killed & 5 wounded out of 8 agents on the scene). This was accomplished with 45 rounds fired from a Ruger Mini-14 (and 3 misses from a .357 Magnum revolver). Platt's partner, William Matix, only fired a single round of 12 gauge birdshot during the entire firefight. Matix was evidentally disoriented by Platt firing 13 rounds from the Mini-14 with the muzzle directly in front of Matix' face and soon after receiving a head wound from a .38 Special +P 158gr LHP. Even with a fractured skull, Matix was able to leave his vehicle and move to the passenger seat of a near-by FBI cruiser which Platt was attempting to start.

[TR]

Yeah that's the one... can recall watching this training tape ages ago, I think it was produced by the FBI on the shooting so they could learn from what happened. Course it's been a long time since I've seen it so I could be off. I just remember after watching it I became a bit more worried each time my father (then a cop) went to work.

T.R.

[D.E. Watters]

There are two good training tapes available. One was made by the FBI which provides a re-enactment of the event. The other is a briefing by David Rivers, the Metro-Dade PD supervisor responsible for the crime scene.

Dr. W. French Anderson has put together a detailed analysis of the the 'Miami Massacre' complete with survivor interviews, post-mortem reports, photos, X-rays, slides, and other materials. Most of the copies have gone to the FBI Academy where they are distributed to new agents. However, Dr. Anderson will provide free copies to any interested LEO who requests it on department letterhead or provides a photocopy of his department ID. Ordering instructions can be found at:
http://www.frenchanderson.org/forensic/ordering/ordering.html

[This message has been edited by D.E. Watters (edited 01-27-2000).]

[Polypro]

I seem to remember a Recon Marine from the "Old" site, called ASD? Gotta be a coincidence?:-) Secondly, the old SF board had a post that McNab offed himself. I checked the BBC website and nada. can anyone confirm? Oh yeah, the topic...Heat, good flick. 84 Charlie MoPic was the best though!

Polypro

[ASD]

Polypro,

It must of been a coinsodence, ASD refer to my initials. Maybe that recon marine has the same initials or something. I did put some post in the old site with this name. Anyway's I never was in the military, I'm just too young, but I plan to join it.

Take Care,
ASD

[veil]

Poly, that "instruction movie" set in 'nam?

Damn i _loved_ that flick but i forgot the name! just remembered the mopic part. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/frown.gif The ending scene is probably the best i've ever seen...

-Veil

[Polypro]

Lo and behold, walked into my buddy's room with the "what ya rent" line, and Whoa! 84 Charlie MoPic!!!! Blew me away! Watchin it in 10 mikes. Whohooo!!

Polypro

[veil]

Love the patrol-scene with the panjii...

-Veil

[NAILS]

I saw 84 carlie mopic at a USSNSCC SUVRIVAL SCHOOL AND WOULD LIKE TO GET A COPY TO SHOW MY HOME UNIT?