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MT
13 March 2000, 22:38
Good to see SCNET back and running.

Anybody know the military designation for the ammo used with the Mk23? I have heard the standard load is a 185-frain +P JHP.

Tuukka
14 March 2000, 06:49
Hollow Points are forbidden on military ops
as everyone knows, but on CT ops they can be used.

MT
14 March 2000, 15:49
>Hollow Points are forbidden on military ops
>as everyone knows, but on CT ops they can >be used.

Explain to me what this useless piece of information has to do with the question I asked. The standard supersonic round used with the Mk23 is a hollowpoint. That isn't a question. The question is what the military designation is for it.

Mac679
15 March 2000, 15:05
MT,
how is a JHP load the standard load for the MK23? HP, JHP, and any sort of expanding/frangible ammunition designed to increase wound size and trauma is against the laws of land warfare ( Geneva and Hague Conventions ) and may not be used against a military force, they are however legal for use in Counter Terrorist situations. I've also seen something from HK recommending that only ball ammo is fired through the surpressors on their weapons ( I think JY might have mentioned something about this as well ). Could be that I'm misunderstanding some portion of your question.
Mac

MT
15 March 2000, 16:49
All I know, from military contract information, is that the standard supersonic load for the Mk23 is a hoppowpoint. Logic may be that the Mk23 is only intended to be used without suppressor in CT missions and thus able to use hollowpoints. I don't know. What I do know is that a Olin manufacturerd 185-grain +p JHP is in US Military service for use in the Mk23 and I would like to know the military designation (or at least the NSN).

JY
16 March 2000, 02:27
Hi MT;

You are CORRECT about the 185gr +P JHP being used in the MK 23 MOD 0 pistol. The hallow point bullet is for use against armed threats other than regular military of a recognized State, any target that would be considered criminal such as the terrorist.

The ammo in question is issued in a plain white olin box stating only the above designation (.45CAL 185gr JHP) and 10 boxes to a plastic water proof sleeve. The rounds themselves are "water proofed" as are the others intended for SOCOM issue (185 gr FMJ and the 230 gr FMJ). I haven't seen an actual model number but undoubably the Navy has one for the round, none appears on the boxes that I've seen nor a NSN. I will check this further and if I find anything will let you know.

Take care...Jim

MT
16 March 2000, 02:41
Thanks much Jim.

Ahab
8 December 2000, 11:42
...Bringing up an old topic..
JY- Did you ever find any more info about these rounds? Does SOCOM use a different 230gr. FMJ round other than the standard M1911 ball ammo? (Is the standard M1911 ball round not waterproofed?) Are these rounds stamped WCC instead of LC? Thanks!

MARK92A
8 December 2000, 14:59
I'll get you an answer for the DODIC tonight or tommorow. I need to dig out the ABC book I have.

Call your local friendly DAO, they can probably help you also!

I need to know what caliber it is.

Obviously, I dont deal with that one on a daily basis like I do 5.56 or 7.62 or .50 cal, ect..

JY
10 December 2000, 01:55
Hi Ahab;

The 230 gr round is the same as in general issue, and is weather proofed. The 185 gr are issued in both JHP and Ball, both with truncated bullets, they come in a plain white box of 50 marked as stated above ".45CAL 185gr JHP". The box is the same a the .300WM "match" loaded by outside contracters for sniper use. The 185 gr rounds are suppossed to be water proof, not just weather proof, for use by swimmers.They bear the WCC head stamp, not made by LC. My suspicion is they come from NAVSURFWARCENDIV Indiana by way of LBAD's JOSW Lexington, Ky.

Still haven't found a proper M or MK nomenclature for them, maybe Mark can find it.

Take care...Jim

MARK92A
10 December 2000, 02:51
So they are .45?? Ok, give me a day or so... Need to dig out the handy dandy ABC guide..

I'll post all the DODICS that sound like it..

If it is some special stuff, it may not be in there, but I'll let ya know..

Ahab
10 December 2000, 22:39
Wow.. Thanks for the help you guys! Since I posted the question I also found the following: (The website says this requires Internet Explorer 4.0 rather than Netscape)
this link: http://w4.pica.army.mil/pmsa/CommDayFtBenning//small%20arms%20day%20pres%204081-1_files/frame.htm

then go to slide 28.. A pic of FMJ +P rounds (185 gr?) with some Id markings on the box.. Maybe this will help your search Mark92A?
Again, thanks for the effort!

MARK92A
10 December 2000, 23:02
For what ever reason, the pic on the slide wont come up. Can you tell me what it says?? If the ammo doesnt have a DODIC, it wont be in the ABC book.

Ahab
11 December 2000, 00:33
The box is brown and marked:

50 cartridges
caliber .45 +P FMJ
AA18
N00164-97-C-0052
LOT WCC98A066-002