Sports Supplement Question for the Pros

[Humpty]

Figured I'd ask this question of the training pros in here, Navy and otherwise:

Any recovery products that you guys feel actually work? I used to be a big EAS fan once upon a time: Myoplex, Phosphagen, etc. but I know that some of the teams/groups have actually put some scientific time into this.

Any "hot list" items that you folks wouldn't want to go without?

[Matchanu]

Copeous amounts of alcohol.

Copenhagen.

Pussy.


Did wonders for me.

[Humpty]

You know, as soon as I posted that, I knew I had this one coming.

But that's okay...

Keep it coming!

[Matchanu]

You know, as soon as I posted that, I knew I had this one coming.

But that's okay...

Keep it coming!


LOL, good, you have an active sence of humor.

I was never a subscriber of the supliments. I ate some amino supplements, but other than that, I figured it was more productive to eat all the weird foriegn food when I was over seas rather than get caught up in a specific diet that there was no way of maintaining.

There were guys that liked to use these suplements, and were probably better for doing so.

Ignore me, I'm the resident ass.

[Equinox]

Flintstones vitamins... really... everything else you just piss out.

[Humpty]

Match., no problems!! Didn't think of the "local cuisine" issue, but yes I can see your point. I guess they don't supply MetRX with MRE's do they...:D

Equinox? Serious? Just because it doesn't overload or what? When I was doing the EMT thing, we used chewable baby aspirin for heart attacks. Easy to administer and absorbed quickly...maybe it's the same deal, no?

[Digem]

Figured I'd ask this question of the training pros in here, Navy and otherwise:

Any recovery products that you guys feel actually work? I used to be a big EAS fan once upon a time: Myoplex, Phosphagen, etc. but I know that some of the teams/groups have actually put some scientific time into this.

Any "hot list" items that you folks wouldn't want to go without?

The ONLY recovery product you need is PT. Yes, physical training. I stay away from bullshit chemicals. Just my thoughts.

[Humpty]

The ONLY recovery product you need is PT. Yes, physical training. I stay away from bullshit chemicals. Just my thoughts.
Understood. Actually, during my active duty period, I could never afford them. So I guess a 2nd half to this question is whether or not you folks are seeing any of this stuff offered as "issue gear" as well.

It IS expensive, and I know when I did the muscle shakes in the military, I bought the cheapest crap I could find.

[Doctor_Doom]

Not to intrude, but vitamins, Flintstone or otherwise, are generally good for one thing, if you are a healthy individual who eats a balanced diet (and not a woman):

Making your pee really yellow.

Don't waste your money.

[Bohr Adam]

Not to intrude, but vitamins, Flintstone or otherwise, are generally good for one thing, if you are a healthy individual who eats a balanced diet (and not a woman):

Making your pee really yellow.

Don't waste your money.

Dude, you are SO not getting hired by GNC to pitch their wares.

Everybody needs to eat a handful of vitamin pills a day - at least that's what I get told once a week by some Joe who I see pull out the damn zip lock baggie oh drugs and wolf down the latest high end GNC crap. Surely, the 18-year old at GNC who pitched them knows more than you do about physiology. ;)

[Typhoon]

Tell you what, I have coached so many players over the years who spent a lot of their precious money on nutritional supplements, but then their basic diet really sucked. So much crap consumed from fast food restaurants and quick stops, and not enough water to hydrate, vegetables to obtain minerals, etc. Most people can do much better physically if they work to improve their basic dietary habits.

Of course I am not the greatest example of how to do that.
*Chris Farley voice* "I'm working on it!" :o :D

[Matchanu]

Making your pee really yellow.

.


Yerrow?


"Me Chinese, me play joke, me go pee pee in your Coke".


LOL, fucker.

[312Marine]

Was an EAS advocate for some time but that gets EXPENSIVE and if you can get 95% of the same nutrition from well-balanced meals, why not save the extra coin for beer (5th basic food group). Bottom line for me has been eating small portions often throughout the day, drink a gallon of water over the course of the day, and try not to eat anything that's not more than one degree of seperation away from something that grows from the earth or on a tree, chews grain or grass, or can be pulled from a garden.

[24/7]

Sounds like you not asking about or leaning toward Creatine but I still wanted to add my two cents. All those big pretty muscles come with some baggage, especially when your deployed and you can't control your environment.

Causes a fluid shift...could increase the odds that you sustain a dehydration related injury. Really gotta push fluids, my opinion would be to stay away from it if your deployed.

Tendinitis - Back in the Bosnia rotation days. I had guys who were spending a lot of time in the gym, they were taking Creatine and really looking buffed...but. Creatine works on the muscle tissue, not in the muscular connective tissue, the tendons were the weak link. We saw some screaming cases of tendinitis.

Drains the wallet.

[Humpty]

Yerrow?


"Me Chinese, me play joke, me go pee pee in your Coke".


LOL, fucker.
Good fuckin' tymes!

Now THAT is OLD SCHOOL! I don't think I've heard that this side of 20 years!!

:D

Like I said, all good!

[Humpty]

Sounds like you not asking about or leaning toward Creatine but I still wanted to add my two cents. All those big pretty muscles come with some baggage, especially when your deployed and you can't control your environment.

Causes a fluid shift...could increase the odds that you sustain a dehydration related injury. Really gotta push fluids, my opinion would be to stay away from it if your deployed.

Tendinitis - Back in the Bosnia rotation days. I had guys who were spending a lot of time in the gym, they were taking Creatine and really looking buffed...but. Creatine works on the muscle tissue, not in the muscular connective tissue, the tendons were the weak link. We saw some screaming cases of tendinitis.

Drains the wallet.
Creatine is something that I really have not looked into. Not as much as "recovery" products. I'm not really looking at the whole bulking up thing as much as basic nutrition and repair. At 36, I guess I just get beat up a bit when I'm workin' out.

During a fire academy that I went through a few years back, I was all into the EAS. I'm not sure if it made a huge difference or not, but it definitely helped the waistline. The protein stuff is obvious, but the voodoo products like Phosphagen (which I was taking) didn't seem to have obvious benefits. :confused: That's where I was hoping for input. I did not know that stuff about Creatine...sounds dangerous.

On a side note: Briefly, I also took some of the "uppers" when I was really trying to bring the weight back down (computer weenie jobs are good at making wide-bodies) but I noticed that I was getting way too zooted after taking them. I started ordering the ephedra-free stuff because I knew something was "just not right". This was back in 2001, right before they banned it. Who says everything that GNC sells is good for you? (good points on the 18 year olds, baggies of vitamins, and the whole chemical thing in general...very good points. Thanks.).

[rgrjoe175]

I take a multivitamin and fish oil.

1) because my diet sucks sometimes due to it not being well enough balanced because I am a lazy shithead.

2) the fish oil helps with the good cholestrol/bad cholestrol thing... actually made a difference based on last blood work with the only change being adding the fish oil to my diet. Of course I am sure there is probably another good explanation...LOL

3) I tried the glucosamine/chondrotin... spelling? stuff for my knees and shoulder after 3 months of taking the stuff the only difference I felt was a lighter money clip... I have some friends that swear by it, that is the reason I tried it... it did nothing for me.

That is just my dumb FOGs experience with supplements. When I was in the military, I never took anything.

JP

[24/7]

2) the fish oil helps with the good cholesterol/bad cholestrol thing... actually made a difference based on last blood work with the only change being adding the fish oil to my diet. Of course I am sure there is probably another good explanation...LOLJP

What brand FO do you take, I've considered that before. I currently take Vit C & E and baby aspirin once a day cause I'm getting old as dirt.

Think if I use fish oil in the car I'll get better mileage? :D

[Humpty]

FOG experience is usually the best kind, in almost any situation.

I tried that strange joint/collagen repair stuff too. I agree...seems B.S. to me.

[Matchanu]

Good fuckin' tymes!

Now THAT is OLD SCHOOL! I don't think I've heard that this side of 20 years!!

:D

Like I said, all good!

Inside joke to DD.


I'd stear clear of it unless you wish to be in the rist.

[Humpty]

Inside joke to DD.


I'd stear clear of it unless you wish to be in the rist.
Oh hell no. I'm steppin' way clear.

Just the "old days" with that old "pee pee in your Coke" thing. We used to say that all the time in school...then things got too P.C. No idea of the inside joke.

[Cass]

I don't know where you guys get your factual data about health intakes. But every grocery store in America carries the items we need for a very healthy body system. Those who are unlucky enough to lack a particular body utilization or retention system to reap the benefits of good eating habits should see a Doctor for educated direction.

When you take supplements then add beer and cheesebugers you are working with inbalanced scales. I took garlic pills for a short period for my heart from GNC because a dear friend who was a health advocate, whom had a Degree in Public Health and Denistry advised me so. All the garlic pills did was give me bad breath.

I used to have a cholesterol count in the 260's. That ripped up my arteries. With proper medication directed by a Cardiologist and setting the beer aside my Cholesterol now runs in the 120-140's. My Internist and Cardiologist both say my Cholesterol is nearly unable to be seen in a Blood Panel.

If you want big muscles, lift weights. If you want a healthy body a normal program of some exercise and decent eating will accomplish that. And as Matchanu sez, a little pussy helps.

I just finished my morning light workout and a brisk morning walk and I am so old the dirt I walk on is younger than me. Try it, it works; and it is free.

[Blackjack78]

I don't know where you guys get your factual data about health intakes. But every grocery store in America carries the items we need for a very healthy body system. Those who are unlucky enough to lack a particular body utilization or retention system to reap the benefits of good eating habits should see a Doctor for educated direction.

When you take supplements then add beer and cheesebugers you are working with inbalanced scales. I took garlic pills for a short period for my heart from GNC because a dear friend who was a health advocate, whom had a Degree in Public Health and Denistry advised me so. All the garlic pills did was give me bad breath.

I used to have a cholesterol count in the 260's. That ripped up my arteries. With proper medication directed by a Cardiologist and setting the beer aside my Cholesterol now runs in the 120-140's. My Internist and Cardiologist both say my Cholesterol is nearly unable to be seen in a Blood Panel.

If you want big muscles, lift weights. If you want a healthy body a normal program of some exercise and decent eating will accomplish that. And as Matchanu sez, a little pussy helps.

I just finished my morning light workout and a brisk morning walk and I am so old the dirt I walk on is younger than me. Try it, it works; and it is free.

Cass,

Wow, heart ailments at 38.......thats just wrong!!! Good thing you have the looks thing going lol Be well my friend.

[Humpty]

Thanks, Cass. Did the doc say to cut back on the beer, or did you make that choice just to cut some calories out? Curious if that had a lot of bearing on the cholesterol...

[Cass]

Thanks, Cass. Did the doc say to cut back on the beer, or did you make that choice just to cut some calories out? Curious if that had a lot of bearing on the cholesterol...

Humpty
I feel your query is genuine.

I used to drink beer like it was free. My beer drinking periods, everyday, was the most fun part of the day. My budget, marriage, or disposition never suffered from my beer drinking. However, after a hospitilization and recovery of some 18 days, of which no suds were consumed, I stood up to finally get to my beer fridge in the garage. I then said to myself, "Hey, you have went for 18 days without beer, how much longer can you go". I have not had a beer in over 8 years.

Anticipating your question, the most difficult time of wanting a beer and not having one was when I lit off my Bar-B-Q the first time after quitting beer. That was a hard 10 minutes. But the thought of a cold beer now only passes through my mind for a few seconds once every 2 months or so. In summary, I just quit cause it was time, Cold Turkey.

The drop in my Cholesterol count came without my expectation. But since most of my other oral intake is the same, plus some heart medication, I contribute my drop in Cholesterol count to the lack of good ol' American suds.

[Humpty]

That is unbelievable, just that one change?! Did your weight come down as a result of the drop in brew? It seems that you are pretty active, from your earlier post...so I can't imagine the beer gut?!

This would be THE first time I've heard anyone linking brews to cholesterol.

[Cass]

Humpty
I am not a physical ed major, but I suppose with age the muscle tissue does break down. I did grow a small beer belly, but when I grew embarrased over that I began to increase my exercises. I cannot recall which came first, the belly or the withdrawal from beer. But with age the body can accumalute fat quicker because of the lack of normal exercise that younger people get.

But for a severe back injury accumalated over years of inproper lifting, etc., I ended up with an Occupational Medicine Doctor who had an excellent therapy staff. I was shown a few easy exercises that strenthened the muscles between my knees and my shoulders, which also included sit ups. Some of these excercises I had been doing all along, but others exercises I was taught. Within a short time my beer belly went and my back improved a slight amount. Although I eat sparingly I still have to fight weight gain.

Do not take my words as gospel. I am a strong advocate of living life to the owners choice. If they want to look rotund while enjoying two six packs of beer per day, so be it. If they want to jock it up at a Health Club, I am for that too. But take a hint, all my exercises are done either with a brisk walk or on the floor of my home. But, to each is own.

[Doctor_Doom]

This would be THE first time I've heard anyone linking brews to cholesterol.

That's why they pay us the big bucks...

[Doctor_Doom]

Yerrow?


"Me Chinese, me play joke, me go pee pee in your Coke".


LOL, fucker.

LOL... guess this means you got my SMS this weekend...

[Humpty]

Cass: thanks for that advice. I try to stay teachable as well, even at 36, so I'm always all ears. I actually quit drinking a few years back as well...for me it was causing other issues outside of general health. But I learned some new stuff with regards to the cholesterol thing...thanks for the advice.

Doc Doom : LOL

[Humpty]

Tap to thank Cass.

[hoser813]

Coming from a bodybuilding background, I would have to agree with the others that most supps on the market are complete crap. The best way to acheive your goals is DIET! Wether it be bodybuilding, powerlifting, long distance running, etc, your diet will dictate how your body performs and responds to training.

BUT.... there are supps on the market that will be beneficial to supplement your diet.

Whey protein powder is a great way to get more protein in your daily diet; its quick, easy to prepare and the calories add up quick. Plus, it supplies your body with essential amino acids that you might be missing out on from your meals.

Creatine is one of the few supplements that has been proven to do what it claims to do. Increases strength, endurance and even recovery... although the effects are not hugely exaggerated, they are still noticeable. Also, creatine is so cheap and easy to take that it is well worth the price.

In addition to creatine, most people don't do this (or even know about it) and that is post-workout, high GI carbs (for example, dextrose or maltodextrin). To make a long story short, these help to quickly replenish depleted gylcogen stores in the muscles, spike low insulin levels, and help in recovery. Plus, it will help to deliver your creatine and amino acids (from the protein powder) into the muscles.

I noticed a few posts up that someone mentioned glucosamine. I have taken glucosamine a few times in the past when I was feeling a little stiff or had some sore joints and I did notice its effects. But it takes about 2 weeks for it to really start to help you out. It is also not particularly cheap. Ibuprofen might be a cheaper alternative :)

EDIT: just noticed I bumped a thread from last year :o

[armorer1]

I use Endurox R4 after lifting/wrestling/jiu jitsu practices. I'll drink a whey Protein shake during the day, or casein protein at night on occasion if I don't get enough protein thru "real" food. I've told alot of my wrestlers about the Endurox R4...it really helps with the recovery.

[Matchanu]

I noticed a few posts up that someone mentioned glucosamine. I have taken glucosamine a few times in the past when I was feeling a little stiff or had some sore joints and I did notice its effects. But it takes about 2 weeks for it to really start to help you out. It is also not particularly cheap. Ibuprofen might be a cheaper alternative :)



After 2 reconstructive shoulder surguries, I would highly recommend anything that helps your joints.

[hoser813]

After 2 reconstructive shoulder surguries, I would highly recommend anything that helps your joints.

What exactly was wrong with your shoulder? Most shoulder injuries are muscle or tendon related, but glucosamine only helps to repair cartilage and help with arthritis. I actually just recovered from rotator cuff tendonitis and was taking glucosamine/chondroitin/msm because I thought it would help. When I finally saw the doctor, he said that it wouldn't help me. I ended up getting a corticosteroid shot to help the inflammation and had to drastically alter my training.

This is sort of off topic, but this thread reminded me of this, so I thought I'd ask. I used to work with an ex-EOD and he said that in the Team he worked with, most of the guys were using AAS. Now, how prevalent is steroids with SEALs? Also, does the Navy even try to stop it, or do they just turn a blind eye to you guys because of how physically demanding your job is?

[DY]

Glucosamine and Chondroitin on osteoarthritis.
http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/gait/qa.htm

For a subset of participants with moderate-to-severe pain, glucosamine combined with chondroitin sulfate provided statistically significant pain relief compared with placebo--about 79 percent had a 20 percent or greater reduction in pain versus about 54 percent for placebo. According to the researchers, because of the small size of this subgroup these findings should be considered preliminary and need to be confirmed in further studies.
For participants in the mild pain subset, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate together or alone did not provide statistically significant pain relief.

[DY]

Endurox. Worked for me during Pararescue Indoc. It is not designed to be a weight gainer, performance enhancer, cutter, ripper or change your brains ability to recognize fatigue. It is designed to speed up your muscle's ability to rebuild with the right balance of essential nutrients. In medical terms, it helps your body return to "homeostatis", it's normal, natural state.

My muscles run a full three to four day recovery cycle from heavy workouts. And I can get away with less gym visits, focus on well spent recovery time and still make gains in strength and endurance that last longer than most studly gents. Indoc did not allow for this as we had to put out 100% 5 days per week for 8 weeks. So my weekends were spent laid up like a lame dog.

Endurox provides a balance of carbs and protiens that uptake into muscle efficiently during the 1 hour post workout window (the period of time immediately after strenuous activity that the body absorbs nutrients in highly efficient manner). As well, it has sodium, pottasium and calcium, also required for immediate replacement. As well as other antioxidents to rid lactic acid.

It tastes like crap, probably due to the pottasium (thats why Gatorade doesn't have any). But I used half of the manufactures reccomendation, so it wasn't so bad.

It is the ONLY thing I would reccomend in the operational setting because it is a recovery supplement. In other words, it doesn't alter your physiology and therefore required in order to continue performance levels.

Now when do I get my check?

[Matchanu]

What exactly was wrong with your shoulder? Most shoulder injuries are muscle or tendon related, but glucosamine only helps to repair cartilage and help with arthritis. I actually just recovered from rotator cuff tendonitis and was taking glucosamine/chondroitin/msm because I thought it would help. When I finally saw the doctor, he said that it wouldn't help me. I ended up getting a corticosteroid shot to help the inflammation and had to drastically alter my training.


The cartilage (slap) is key for shoulder health. Shoulders are a pretty weird joint that relies heavily on tendons, muscle and other tissue to hold it together and make things move. If things start going wrong (starting from the soft tissue) then it all falls apart. The SEAL Teams are well known for chonic shoulder injuries. Swimming, pull ups, push ups, etc.. cause a lot of damage to this tissue. My capsual that holds the rotator cuff tore 260 degrees. Slap, Banckhart, lots of arthritus and pieces of bone floating around, (I dislocated my should 5 times in freefall). My shoulder was a mess. Orthapedic surgon suggested glucosamine for my recovery (after the sugery). Lots of team guys have hip issues as well, keeping the cartlige in your hip socket (and knees) heathy is paramount.

This is sort of off topic, but this thread reminded me of this, so I thought I'd ask. I used to work with an ex-EOD and he said that in the Team he worked with, most of the guys were using AAS. Now, how prevalent is steroids with SEALs? Also, does the Navy even try to stop it, or do they just turn a blind eye to you guys because of how physically demanding your job is?


There was a time when steriods were prevailent (80's early 90's), but then faded away. Steriods really mess up your joints and tendons, not to mention your mental well being, (not good for long deployments). NSW cracked down on steriod use and now I hardly ever hear about it. We could usually always tell who the steriod guys were, they were the really big guys who were always broken, almost as usless as the triathelete types who's sole diet is Myoplex or some shit who end up sick all the time when we are in forgien ports.

[ex]

I know this is in the SEAL forum, but if you will allow me to chime in on the joint supplementation issue....
I've had such problems with my knees that I've had both of them totally replaced in the past eleven months (I am now the Bionic Woman!) I am still healing and have continued to take a prescription NSAID as I have for the past three years.

I've been getting regular PT as well as going to a wellness center for acupuncture. The pharmacist there told me to take Kaprex, which is a natural anti-inflammatory with the main ingredient being hops (maybe beer is good for you!) After taking the product for two days, I haven't had to take my prescription med since. Which is miraculous, imo! Kaprex (http://lifesciencepharmacy.com/products/1415/Metagenics-Kaprex.htm)

He also suggested a liquid Glucosamine product to help protect the rest of my joints from damage. flexeasy (http://www.flexeasy.com/faq.html)

[armorer1]

I had a SLAP/Bankart repair on my right shoulder in 1999. I was training for the All Navy wrestling team and had my shoulder tore 270 degrees!! I have a nice scar from that!!

[sguritz]

Not really a supplement but I have been drinking Green Tea lately and I seem to have more energy and focus during my afternoon workouts, possibly due to caffeine but I didn't have the same energy drinking coffee or soda during the day, so maybe there is something to this Green Tea hype?

[Matchanu]

Not really a supplement but I have been drinking Green Tea lately and I seem to have more energy and focus during my afternoon workouts, possibly due to caffeine but I didn't have the same energy drinking coffee or soda during the day, so maybe there is something to this Green Tea hype?


Try crystal meth, that shit will give you energy for days!

[Massgrunt]

"Meth, whoooa meth! You don't sleep, and you don't eat, but you've got the cleanest house on the street!"

[Red Barron]

Eat fish - or something that tastes like fish, drink water or hops and water, do push ups, sit ups and run at least 3 a day. That will do the trick

Enough said

[misisipiboy]

I've got an old right shoulder injury from boot camp, overuse injury, and to this day when I reach my upper limits of push-ups my right shoulder sags lower than my left. I don't know if I will ever get that under control. When it happened they just said sprained shoulder and pumped me full of pain killers. Hopefully I can get this under conrol so I don't draw unwanted attention like it did in boot camp. From what I've read it seems like glucosamine may do some good. I'm glad I read this thread.

[Gargoyle]

I know this is the SEAL forum but....Copenhagen and coffee. Combined they can do wonderful things.