Ski boots

[Snow]

What kind of ski boots(and attachment system)
U.S. military and other armies uses?
One picture tells more than thousand words...

[RE FACTOR]

SOFME Kit for Military Technical Mountaineering TO&E includes:

Koflach hard shell, w/inner lace boot, front
point cramponing compatable.

Silveretta bindings, free heel capable, mounted on 185 cm Dynastar ski's, color
white, skin compatable.

Liberty Mtn. Sports / Advanced Base Camp Inc.
in Utah, is one of several GSA contractors.

[Snow]

OK, here is the picture of our ski boot which is also a general winter footwear. http://www.nokianfootwear.fi/kuvat/spp1.jpg

[MARK92A]

"Normal" (aka Non SF types) US ground troops can get issued the VB "Mickey Mouse" boots, which have the ski attachment points on them, the old Chippewa boots (also with ski attachment points). Both types of boots hook in to both the snow shoe and the old military crosscountry/downhill skis..
Sorry no pics right now..

[whisky8]

Mark,
The last time I skied with VB boots laced to my bindings was in 1986. Trying to use VB boots as a ski boot will result in a very high injury rate with most units. The "normal" Army has adopted pretty much the same sytems as SF. When I was in Vicenza in the late 80s we used an Italian plastic lace-up inner and outer boot simuliar to what I use in SF. As for Chip's being issued, I have not seen those issued in about 10 years,,,

W8

[MARK92A]

Whisky,

Im not trying to be a smart ass here, but no one mentioned anything about if it was comfortable or the smart thing to do, they just asked what was done. I got some Chips, they are pretty good. If only someone had thought to put the Ski binding soles like on the Chips on the ICW (Bosnia) Boots...

Given a sum of $$ to spend on it I would go with some COTS boots, and stay away from Issue stuff.

[whisky8]

Mark,
I think the original question was about military ski boots and bindings not about comfort. As for chips being used for back-country skiing, you'd better be good or you're going to break your ankles trying to ski with chips.
To answer that question "Snow" being from Finland you're probably familiar with most of the stuff since it's made there. The best stuff available is the standard European "Alpine touring gear". Lowa or Koflach lace-up inner and plastic outer lace-up boots with Silveretta 400 or 404 bindings are standard issue now days. Hagan makes some pretty goog AT skis that come already flat white in color. If you want the best and most expensive civilian bindings the Swiss made Fritcshi Diamir bindings are the best. (I use these on my civilian skis) Don't the Finns use Tellemark gear more often in the flatter northern regions?. I'm not a big fan of Telle gear when I can get my AT skis to do the same thing and expend a lot less energy in the mountains.

W8

[Snow]

whisky8,
I don`t actually know anything about these European bindings you mentioned...The only military system I know is the Finnish one which in my opinion is excellent. All civilian hunters and outdoor guys use also the same binding.
So I began to think what are the other ways to design a military binding system.
Finnish military do not use any telemark gear.

About Finnish system: I noticed that my earlier link doesn`t work so here is the new one:

Boot: http://www.nokianfootwear.fi/english/evalmiustuotteet.html

Binding(the polar 75mm binding at the right was used in civilian sport skiing at late seventies, so don`t pay attention to it):
http://www.kuusamonuistin.fi/talvikalastus/finngrip.html

Something about use of it: the winter rubber boot has the attachment flank around the toe and the groove around the heel.
When properly adjusted(no problems with it) its really trouble-free and comfortable system.
The winter rubber boot is our general winter footwear at field and it`s used by everyone from special forces personnel to cooks.

Our combat boot M/91 has also attacment flank and groove for emergency use. http://www.maanpuolustusyhtio.fi/tuotteet/jalkineet_9.html

It fits to bindings as well as the winter rubber boot, but it isn`t warm enough for extreme cold weather, because it doesn`t have any insulation.

[Snow]

I almost forget, you can play soccer with this system!: http://www.mil.fi/ruotuvaki/03_99/s3k1.jpg

[whisky8]

Hey Snow,
I'm not a big on Tellemark gear, but your system looks like a mix between telle and cross-country skis. Telle bindings are know as "free-heal" bindings meaning the heal can not be locked down, which is what the bindings in the picture look like. These skis are said to work really well in flat non-mountainous terrain much like Finland. The standard European AT gear (Alpine touring) is typically made by the Germans and Austrains (civilian and military version). The ski itself is much more like a standard downhill type ski in that the binding locks the boot into place and you can ski downhill just like regular skis. The difference is that the binding can be unlocked (free-heal) skins can be applied, and then you can go straight up any mountain. The advantage of this system is that it is easier and quicker going downhill than telle gear. Also, most Germans and Austrains soldiers already know how to downhill ski so it's a quick and easy transition for them. We (the US) base a lot of our skiing gear and techniques on what we learn from the Germans and Austrains (Burgfuhurer course).
The rubber boots in the picture look somewhat like Mukluks or Sorrels which we use for extreme cold conditions. Unfortunately, Mukluks and Sorrels dont work with AT bindings and they dont have any ankle support.
Hope that clarifies the difference with the two sytems which mainly is based on the terrain they're used for (mountains vs Arctic plains).

W8