EODT

[Argyll 50]

Are a bunch of lying sacks of shit, they have strung all NON Americans along with false promises about being hired.
They are replacing Cochise on the security front, and will be taking over on the 30th September,they informed all the Foreigners on my team, as I'm the Team Leader at the moment,that they'd be hired, yesterday we found out that all of us were going to be replaced as soon as they had the manpower to do so.
I resigned on principle, effective immediately.
I have been the ATL for the past 4 months, and have done a good job in keeping team cohesion together, but I'm being replaced because I'm not an American,they have strung us along on false promises to keep the contract.

My Aussie mate posted this at GSI

"I am currently in southern Iraq working for Cochise Consultancy, providing protection to EODT on the coalition munitions clearance program, for USACE.
EODT have recently taken over the security side of this contract, as I am sure you all saw the advertisements on this site. The way they went about it was all wrong. To ensure that EODT had sufficient manpower on the ground in order to facilitate the changeover, the EODT headshed assured all non-Americans that their jobs would be secure in the event of an EODT changeover, in order to win the support of the guys on the ground, and make it all possible. We kept hearing rumors that EODT would get rid of all non-US citizens when they took over, but were constantly reassured that our jobs were secure by EODT management.

One of the Cochise team members in Tallil managed to get a look at a team roster for my team, which had all non-Americans with -To Be replaced by xxxxxxx from CRC- next to the names.

He then went and forwarded his findings onto the guys down here, as you would. When confronted directly, with this little piece of evidence, EODT finally caved in and said that all non-US citizens would be replaced, and it turns out that they were not going to tell anyone until they had the guys on the way to replace us, basically they would get out of the vehicles, and say get in youre out of here. Basically EODT were stringing us along in order to maintain guys on the ground, and were going to fuck us at the last minute.
This has left 8 guys on my team (5 sth africans 2 brits and myself, an
aussie) resigning effective immediately, and out of a job. With no chance to look for anything else, due to the extremely short notice.

The EODT guys that we are protecting here are all embarassed and apologetic, and can't believe the slimy way that EODT management went about it.

They even went so far as to send non-US citizen hiring packages to all non-US members of my team a couple of days ago just to keep us in the dark, full well knowing that at least 25 guys were in the process of deploying over here to replace us.

Anyway, I am fuming, as well as the other non-US citizens on my team, we even have a few american team members tearing up contracts and refusing to work for the slimy bastards.



Rant Over.....EODT Suck balls
"


I echo his sentiments

[godfather]

I buddy of mine was on his way to CRC last Friday for EODT. He was at the airport when he gets a call, it seems EODT was retracting its offer to him (he had signed a contract already) due to the fact that he was at one time employed with Cochise. It seems that EODT went thru their list of resumes and shitcanned every resume with Cochise listed as a previous employer. I believe this kid, I have worked with him and don't think he is pulling my crank.

And BTW Argyle, 8 or 10 of these guys were going to Tallil.

[Massgrunt]

That is unbelievably slimy. I'm not surprised.

I never understood the "fuck the foreigners" philosophy. It never comes from their teammates.

[ODA 564]

Godfather

Your friend should find a good attorney that practices employment law.

I'd suggest that he will find that he was an employee, regardless of the IC verbage in his contract (calling a dog a hog does not make the dog a hog).

As such, he probably has at least a wrongful termination lawsuit (if he was terminated as you say), if not an unemployment compensation claim.

Or, he can just lay there and enjoy the screwing.

And those non-US fellows EODT screwed over should not have resigned. They should have kept every scrap of paper they had from EODT, let EODT terminate them, then found a good employment law attorney in Tennessee. I think they (and EODT) would have been surprised. They pleasantly - EODT less so.

[rmaker]

I have worked for EODT and I have found that the company in my opinion bends over backwards for their foreign employees. In fact I know of teams that worked for EODT that may have had only one or no American operators. I cannot say what is going on in this case is acceptable, but I would not say it is “fuck the foreigners” either.

[godfather]

O he's not the type to take that lying down.

[godfather]

Let me also state that in my own dealings with EODT corporate, they've kept their word and delivered on promises (even without a contract).

[Sniper111]

My experience was on the recieving end of EODT's behavior. While directed to by my employers, what myself and my teammates were subjected to was disgusting. One doesn't do what was done to other guys in the field- period.

What's happening rings true and doesn't surprise me one bit.

[rmaker]

Brother Sniper111, I know the experience that you had with EODT was not a good one. I also did not like how that went down, but half of that team was foreigners. EODT may be many things, but I do not think that they are anti foreigner.

Also you know that there was many sides to that day, but no matter what I’m on your side brother.

[Argyll 50]

They may not be, but the current crop of pencil pushers in Baghdad are, as I seen the email that said they were a American Company and they'd look after American Interests first,and that the Foreigners, especially the ex Cochise ones could not be guranteed employment beyond the 15th Oct.

The entire backbone of my mobile team was ripped out, the day that email came through, we had all been told that ALL of us, Including the Stalwart South Africans, who never bitched and complained,(and who were the guys I'd go into harms way with), would be getting kept on and rolling over to EODT, they hurriedly sent paperwork for all of us to fill in,which we did, all believing that Team would stay intact, and move North in the coming weeks.

I got together with the entire team and asked what training they'd like to do, we had some great suggestions,and we starte to put a package together, that would bond the team even more,then I was approached by one of the SA's, who asked me about this alleged "employ list"....he informed me that the guys at Tallil seen the list, but alongside all the foreigners names was a "replace with and a CRC#".........that doesn't sound like a company that's keeping it's word!
I went to the SUXO's and asked about this list,whilst trying to calm things down, we had to wait all day for simple Yes or No as to whether the men in my team were staying or going, instead we got a long winded email, that made my blood boil......My team was according to EODT the Pinnacle of the program,the best in terms of Safety, and Munitions destroyed,and on the Security side, we were told that it was the best because there was no conflicts of interest between EODT clients and Security......Even Cochise acknowleged the achievements of the team.

Then EODT threw in the spanner, the guys who are leaving are all leaving through Integrity issues,we were all on a 30 days notice anyway, and our contract had a week to go,but the experience lost is irreplaceable in such a small cohesive team....

Thrown into the mix is the bullshit that 2 ex SF guys have had the "not eligeable for hire" card thrown at them, because of stupid things they did years ago,these guys have more experience in their little pinkies, than most of the guys in my team, me included!!
We were supposed to have been convoyed out of here today, but get this, EODT replacements for the guys who quit couldn't be mustered up in time, a little bird informed me.EODT quite simply are not prepared to take over this contract,they are shitting on Cochise at every opportunity, and good guys are leaving because of it.

[Sniper111]

Ice-

Know you had a good experience with them just tossing in my .02 FWIW.

I also know where to place blame for the whole chain of events and the whole story behind it, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

Worst part was I never got kissed after I got screwed by both sides- I feel so used :p

[Little Rhody]

Ice and Sniper,

Greetings from up North. Gotta go with the Sniper on this one, Ice. What EODT pulled on us at BIAP is unconscienable. Wouldn't do the same to my worst enemy. After that, nothing they do could surprise me and I feel for the guys that were just done dirty by them.

Little Rhody out.

[The Lone Gunman]

Looks like EODT is up to the same ole crap that we looked at in Hilla. things really went SOUTH after you guys left and the crap at the Airport was uncalled for. Rhody, how are things for you, I know EODT stranded you in Jordan but I dont know about the others.Wow I cant believe after reading the post that EODT would pull resumes from X- Cochise employees...What nerve they have. Chochise is where solid operators go to keep their skills sharp. Its a shame. All I can say is EODT you Have fun trying to find solid operators to do your crap job. Contrary to popular belief, you are not the only game in the box and as soon as word gets out, you may not have the guys to even be in the box....Im sure you will be forced to hire Walmart Security types to fill your positions....

TLG

[crabbadge]

This may have been covered already but did EODT give any explanation as to why it would not hire foreign operators?

[Argyll 50]

American Company looking after American Interests.......;)

Plus I think they were out to Fuck Jesse over, after they tried the same stunt back in May.

They don't have the people on the ground right now to cover Cochise Mobile Teams, they also axed teams so that they didn't need to find over 160 bodies, and from the Perstat sheet I seen today, a lot of Cochise guys have told EODT to poke it!
The EODT guys at my location are the salt of the earth, and better guys you couldn't work for,every single one of them deserves better,they had a great team looking after their interests, now they have a team where time in country in now few and far between,and some even less in terms of contracting experience,and our replacements are about to hit the ground running, they couldn't even muster a PSD detail to take us off site, so now we sit around waiting.
Cochise have done things that were fucked up too,and tried to ensure all their Americans were part of the rollover,using the same lines, but they at least re-addressed the issue of discrimination,and that it was not up to Cochise to say who to hire,but rather up to EODT to say who they wanted.

Cochise are a good company,they have some "characters" but having worked for a well know Brit run company,and lately Cochise,I'd say Cochise guys were a lot less arrogant than my Brit colleagues,and I've loved my time here,I've worked with some great blokes, and have made friends for life,and I'd like to be able to work for Jesse again if he were to pick something up in the near future.
What is pretty plain though,and it's now happening across the board, but the South Africans in Iraq are going to become a rare commodity,as the latest blurb is that Aegis are replacing all of their SA's.

[rmaker]

Little Rhody, Sniper, Lone Gunman

I will never defend what went on with EODT when it comes to our team. That situation I know. I have to say and you all will have to agree, that when it comes to foreigners EODT has a lot of them and I would find it hard to believe that they would not take care of there people just because they are not American. Lone Gunman, we both know of at least one South African that EODT had in place that we all had questions about and they went out of the way to take care of him.

Brothers: I'm only talkiing about the foreigner issue, not anything else.

[The Lone Gunman]

Rmaker

SOLID COPY on your last...I read you 5x5...I can tell you that when EODT came over, you and I busted our A$$ to square him away and what cost. The thanks we got was that long road to BIAP and put on a plane....How is that for doing the right thing? I followed orders to the T and look at what it got me.....Would I do it again? You bet your A$$ I would but I would scrutinize things a bit more this time around.

[norts]

The whole thing about the PSD type industry in Iraq is its still finding its place in the market. Military attitudes are slowly being replaced by commercial ones and it will continue. There is no duty or honor driving the market, just money and politics, expect to be lied to and expect to screwed and you will never be dissapointed. If its in the companies interest to string guys along so they do a better job until the replacements show, then of course they will do it. They are economically obliged to.

The free ride is ending and we will one day all learn exactly what we are worth per day when our pay rate is calculated against how many deaths we prevent.

I treat every pay cheque like it might be my last and I am continually looking for work I would be interested in outside Iraq.

[Sniper111]

Ice & Gunman- at least you guys got plane tickets home. I have no knowledge of how they treat foreign workers, but the way the screwed fellow Westerners leads me to believe there isn't much they are not capable of doing when it comes to a good screwing of their employees.

[The Lone Gunman]

Roger that, At least we got a plane ticket but it took me to Jordan...thats where the buck stopped. While in JORDAN, I briefly talked to Rhody and told him if he needed help getting to his HOA, I would get his ticket but he declined. I now see that he is back in the BOX...GOOOD for you MAN....How is the book comming? I was told to buy a ticket to my HOA and I would be reembursed....today is day 335 and I still have not seen a dime....I remember how you got out of that mess....wow what a mess it was, thanks GOD for friends right? it still irritates me the way you and XX and XXXX and XXXXX where treated....I was ordered to go guard the gate...I know I could of went with you all but remember one thing, I had a pay issue as well as you did and didnt have the funds to "POP SMOKE" but the next day my money was good in the bank, I heard that ya'lls money was not. Talk about how to skin a cat, yall got skint(sp), but know this... I would gladly serve beside you and the rest of the crew again! No worries and without hesitation.

DF
out


TLG

[Argyll 50]

Are you guys talking about th last time EODT switched Security providers,when Dyncorp were involved ?,my SUXOS told me that EODT in Baghdad told him he needed to physically remove their weapons to prevent the guys from leaving, as he was left with 4 guys to roll over with, and also how hey made the Tech's go out without adequate Security coverage.!!

[The Lone Gunman]

Argyll50

Negative, we are talking about a diffrent incident that involved EODT.

TLG

[Argyll 50]

Roger that mate, sounds like EODT have a bit of history involving fucking their guys without kissing them first!

[M18ClaymoreHeadbanger]

First I want to say that issues I have with EODT is nothing administrative, pay was always on time.

I started off with Cochise and moved to EODT when they took over our site. It had nothing to do with Cochise personally, I just did not like the idea of the mobile teams, that was a personal choice.

However, there were some things that I wish I had know prior to going on board with them. Many lessons learned up until I resigned a few months ago.

Only thing other than pay being on time is that regardless of the company, it is the site/program manager thru the team leaders that is going to make the biggest difference.

This was not my first contract by far, I tend to judge "leaders" by my past experience with other leaders. The best ones look out for thier people.

I am in this first for the money as with everyone else here, but you also have to look out for your team mates, especially as a team leader! Maybe I am wrong on that assumption.

Regardless there are problems with EODT,wish I knew about more of them before I signed up, lesson learned ... ask around next time.

To the gentleman that started this post, resigning out of principle ... my hat is off to you, very very few would ever do that! Standing up for your people and sticking with them when they were wronged at the cost of a paycheck is not something many I have come across over there would do.

[Sniper111]

Gunman had his experience about 2 months after me, rmaker and rhody did.

I might not have made detective but I definitely see a clue here as to how EODT operates :D

[tboy]

Roger that mate, sounds like EODT have a bit of history involving fucking their guys without kissing them first!

Argyll,

Have EODT offered any NON- US guys contracts that you know? I now of one who has been offeredone but he is the only one?

[Argyll 50]

Tboy,
There are a very few who have been offered,some asked about their mates, and were told to like it or lump it, ,most lumped it.

I resigned because I have Integrity, my whole team were about to lose theirs, and their experiences, the foundation of a good team is Trust, Respect, Integrity and Truth, we had that mate, my SA's were the best I've worked with,who would have given their all,I asked countless times about my team, to be told we were ALL getting hired, then it was no, then it was maybe then it was yes, then it was yes, but not for long, then it was too late!!
This list never made it into my hands,it should have,as the Team Leader it's my responsibility to look after my guys first, then my own interests, I did this, I have no qualms about doing this, money isn't everything when you work with a team you'd take the world on with, my team were worth more than a healthy pay check,and they EODT are bringing in Kids, yes kids guys in their early 20's, with little or No Iraq time, to replace guys who knew the ground, the people, the system, the entire fucking works, they were the real deal.
Some of these punkass kids and I use the term loosely, were not interested in training, they were not interested in listening to guys with 3 years under their belts, they were more into playing games on the net, I spoke to a damn good TL yesterday, who told me about the problems he was encountering,just as described......some of these guys were claiming to be 8541's and couldn't strip an M249, or an M16, claiming the system(XM15) was different from what they were used to!!
Cutting corners is a dangerous game to play, and I know why Youth is replacing experience..........less chance of telling the Head Shed they're fucked up, and going to Kill someone with their bullshit tactics etc.

I'm sure I'll pick up something in the near future, I'm chilling out for a month or two,unless I get a decent offer in the next few weeks!!!

[M18ClaymoreHeadbanger]

Cutting corners is a dangerous game to play, and I know why Youth is replacing experience..........less chance of telling the Head Shed they're fucked up, and going to Kill someone with their bullshit tactics etc.

Cutting corners is putting it nicely, at least from what I saw when I was with them.

Wait to you work with the TCNs they brought on board...your not only going to be driving, since most if not all the ones we had could not drive. Most have no clue on using the M249, one (no I'm not kidding) got out of the truck one day, proped the weapon the bed of the 350 and held it like a LAAWs rocket launcher!:confused:

[tboy]

Tboy,
There are a very few who have been offered,some asked about their mates, and were told to like it or lump it, ,most lumped it.

I resigned because I have Integrity, my whole team were about to lose theirs, and their experiences, the foundation of a good team is Trust, Respect, Integrity and Truth, we had that mate, my SA's were the best I've worked with,who would have given their all,I asked countless times about my team, to be told we were ALL getting hired, then it was no, then it was maybe then it was yes, then it was yes, but not for long, then it was too late!!
This list never made it into my hands,it should have,as the Team Leader it's my responsibility to look after my guys first, then my own interests, I did this, I have no qualms about doing this, money isn't everything when you work with a team you'd take the world on with, my team were worth more than a healthy pay check,and they EODT are bringing in Kids, yes kids guys in their early 20's, with little or No Iraq time, to replace guys who knew the ground, the people, the system, the entire fucking works, they were the real deal.
Some of these punkass kids and I use the term loosely, were not interested in training, they were not interested in listening to guys with 3 years under their belts, they were more into playing games on the net, I spoke to a damn good TL yesterday, who told me about the problems he was encountering,just as described......some of these guys were claiming to be 8541's and couldn't strip an M249, or an M16, claiming the system(XM15) was different from what they were used to!!
Cutting corners is a dangerous game to play, and I know why Youth is replacing experience..........less chance of telling the Head Shed they're fucked up, and going to Kill someone with their bullshit tactics etc.

I'm sure I'll pick up something in the near future, I'm chilling out for a month or two,unless I get a decent offer in the next few weeks!!!

Cheers dude. I know one of the non US guys given a job, he took over TL spot from me. He is good to go though.

As for the SA's yeah I had some good ones too, which was a change.

Argyll,

Mate send me an email, as I have a couple of low downs on up coming gigs

[Silverbullet]

I ask that no one take this response as an endorsement of either side of the issue. I just want to throw out what may be some behind the scenes issues that led to the actions taken.

First of all, the rumor on the street is that EODT has been directed to reduce the amount of teams used to service the contract.

SA did not support the coaliton and in fact they fought againist every action the US undertook. No fault of the guys who are qulified and want to work in Iraq but it is a point of contention when a company is US owned and is servicing a US contract. Add in the rumor that the # of tm's is being reduced as well as SA legistation againist their citizens working in this type of industry and certain decsions may fall in line.

I don't endorse stringing people along but do agree with what Norts posted.

[Argyll 50]

G,
I have no problems with their views on SA's ,but there were MNF members as well who were led up the garden path!

There's this little thing called honesty, they were asked repeatedly what their stance was, so that guys could prepare themselves for other employment,they continued to blow sunshine up my Mobile Teams ass,and as far as I recall when they talk about team work, that includes ALL members , Race colour creed or Nationality!

[Silverbullet]

I don't endorse stringing people along

Now I get to quote myself.....:D

Lying is always a no go.

[leopardprey]

I do not work for EODT, but can tell you EODT was told to reduce 4 mobile teams,a nd given short notice to do so. Since reduction in personnel had to be made, the logical choice was non-US and non-performers. There are many non-US who were perfomers that are staying on with EODT. EODT, from a bussiness and political point, also did not want to deal with the SA issue. There were also many SA aon the EODT contract, who had left other contracts with no notice and tried at times to threatnen EODT/Cochise with leaving if their terms were not met, so Cochise and EODT said "fine, leave". In the contract world, contracts can change over night.

[GreenMeany 5]

Ok, I've been quietly monitoring this thread for awhile. I just have just one question. Did Cochise loose all thier contracts in the box or are they as a company still working?

[leopardprey]

Cochise did not loose their contract, they chosed to not bid/renew their contract with the USACE CMC Project and Parsons/EODT.

Parsons then hired Armor Group out for their PSD and Class V teams. EODT went with their own security, but have been reduced 4 mobile teams - thus the reduction in force of personnel.

[SOTB]

Cochise did not loose their contract, they chosed to not bid/renew their contract with the USACE CMC Project and Parsons/EODT. ...That is what Jesse's family told us as well....

[leopardprey]

I can't blame Cochise one bit, for no longer wanting to work for Corps of Engineers or Parsons. Too much BS,politics, and lack of support.

[rmaker]

I can't blame Cochise one bit, for no longer wanting to work for Corps of Engineers or Parsons. Too much BS,politics, and lack of support.

How many people are out of work because management no longer wants to deal with the politics? How many contracts are left that you get everything you need and paid what you are worth? How much longer before we all accept that this is now an industry and that we will all have to deal with that fact or get out? It is long past the time for us to have our own organization for operators so that we can have our on voice at the table.

[Silverbullet]

How many people are out of work because management no longer wants to deal with the politics? How many contracts are left that you get everything you need and paid what you are worth? How much longer before we all accept that this is now an industry and that we will all have to deal with that fact or get out? It is long past the time for us to have our own organization for operators so that we can have our on voice at the table.

Good luck.

Those guys who are out of work are out of work due to the life and career choices they made. No company is obligated to maintain a contract just to keep people employed. That's ridiculous.

Why should any company give someone that is not even an employee a voice at the table?

That arguement is tired and will not work. It's the company's contract. They can do what they want or not do anything. They can bring on who ever they want or not.

If you think the US gov't is ever going to deal with security companies that have to hire unionized workers you're way off base.

There are more than enough guys who will take the job that any type of union would get busted within the first 6 months.

I won't even waste the space to discuss economics and market sector issues that would preclude a union from ever working in addition to the above sentence.

[rmaker]

Good luck.

Those guys who are out of work are out of work due to the life and career choices they made. No company is obligated to maintain a contract just to keep people employed. That's ridiculous.

Why should any company give someone that is not even an employee a voice at the table?

That arguement is tired and will not work. It's the company's contract. They can do what they want or not do anything. They can bring on who ever they want or not.

If you think the US gov't is ever going to deal with security companies that have to hire unionized workers you're way off base.

There are more than enough guys who will take the job that any type of union would get busted within the first 6 months.

I won't even waste the space to discuss economics and market sector issues that would preclude a union from ever working in addition to the above sentence.


I’m not saying that the company should sit at the table. I’m saying that if people do not want to accept the fact that the security field is an industry and you have to compete to be marketable, then either you will have to do what you have to keep working or get together. I know the game I have come to accept it a long time ago. It is a fact that you will not always get what you think you are worth.

[SOTB]

....then either you will have to do what you have to keep working or get together.This sure "appears" as if you are rationalizing a unionizing of the industry. And if you are -- and I admit that I am not yet sure you are -- then you really ought to read SB's post again. Unions aren't going to work. Why? For the simple reason that SB posted. Your union would be busted in less time than it took for you to have your first chapter meeting.

Personally, and I mean this sincerely, I would never support the union or its people and would go out of my way to hire those that are not a part of it. The only people that I have seen pushing a unionization of this field are those that really don't deserve to work in the field anyway, and are cognizant of that fact. And they see that getting everyone together protects them from being without a job sooner than later.It is a fact that you will not always get what you think you are worth.This is a great statement. Well put....

[Massgrunt]

I would have no interest in joining a union. I think the industry self-corrects. Just my opinion based on a little experience.

And I've seen what unions have done to other industries. No thanks.

[rmaker]

This sure "appears" as if you are rationalizing a unionizing of the industry. And if you are -- and I admit that I am not yet sure you are -- then you really ought to read SB's post again. Unions aren't going to work. Why? For the simple reason that SB posted. Your union would be busted in less time than it took for you to have your first chapter meeting.

Personally, and I mean this sincerely, I would never support the union or its people and would go out of my way to hire those that are not a part of it. The only people that I have seen pushing a unionization of this field are those that really don't deserve to work in the field anyway, and are cognizant of that fact. And they see that getting everyone together protects them from being without a job sooner than later.This is a great statement. Well put....


A professional organization living up to higher standards and higher levels of support for its members is not a union. I would not support a union.

[rmaker]

SOTB

I would have to agree with most of your post.

[GreenMeany 5]

Cochise did not loose their contract, they chosed to not bid/renew their contract with the USACE CMC Project and Parsons/EODT.

Parsons then hired Armor Group out for their PSD and Class V teams. EODT went with their own security, but have been reduced 4 mobile teams - thus the reduction in force of personnel.

Thanks, that explains alot.

[Jimbo]

It is long past the time for us to have our own organization for operators so that we can have our on voice at the table.

I have been on both sides of this issue as an operator and owner.

If you are calling yourself an "operator" soley based on your experience as a security contractor, please stop.

[SOTB]

I can't help it. With some of the comments in this thread, including the referrence to unions, "operators" (that IS truly laughable), etc. -- at the risk of SB forcing me to drink more than one beer at a linkup -- I am throwing this post out there (again, it is a post made to the SAME topic elsewhere).

Likewise SB, if I have crossed a line -- then of course I fully expect that you yank the post and I certainly will not whine about it.

Here goes:
"At will" simply means that EITHER of the contracting parties may terminate the arrangement with NO CAUSE and NO WARNING.

This includes, although people certainly are not going to like to read it, that if the company knows that an impending plant or line shutdown (to use a manufacturing example), disgruntlement with an employee(s), or simply that they will rotate a number of employees out to make way for newer (and often cheaper employees) -- all will cause the current employees to drop what they are doing and split to other jobs (and leave the current employer without labor to cover the task), then YES, the employer has an obligation to its stockholders, its clients, and its other employees to not tell the guys who are going to get the shaft that the shaft is coming.

On the reverse note, I know that many of you (if not 100% of you), have either entertained offers from other companies or taken them, and not notified your current employer until the day you had everything wrapped up and were ready to announce. Why? Because you did not want the company to look for someone else, find someone else, and replace you before you had the other gig in the bag.

Simply put, it works both ways.

[Silverbullet]

FWIW, I consider Argyll a friend. He has a good rep on the job with more than one company and contract.

Over the last few months I've come to see that threads that bang a company for it's alledged failures, bad decisions, lack of support, etc... don't dirve the applicants away. In fact the reverse usually takes place since guys realize that the company is probably looking for replacements and line number fillers.

It's good to get the word out since it allows the good people working or looking for work go in with their eyes open.

I'm giving the last word to Norts.

The whole thing about the PSD type industry in Iraq is its still finding its place in the market. Military attitudes are slowly being replaced by commercial ones and it will continue. There is no duty or honor driving the market, just money and politics, expect to be lied to and expect to screwed and you will never be dissapointed. If its in the companies interest to string guys along so they do a better job until the replacements show, then of course they will do it. They are economically obliged to.

The free ride is ending and we will one day all learn exactly what we are worth per day when our pay rate is calculated against how many deaths we prevent.

I treat every pay cheque like it might be my last and I am continually looking for work I would be interested in outside Iraq.