Victory Contract

[Regulator3]

Looks like Global won the award for Camp Victory security.

[Massgrunt]

What about EODT? Different contract, pushed them out, what?

[travlerfx]

When is Global to take it over

[rgrdrew]

Hi all,

I'm still on Global's e-mail list, here is what was put out a couple of days ago:

Camp Victory contract is Global's.
42 day stand up.
250-300 Ghurkas
25-35 Expats
Some expats need TS and Secret clearance.
Pay: $150-$300 per day

Nothing as far as leave rotation, length of contracts for the individual, etc. What you see is what was put out. Good luck.

Rgrdrew

[RGR_Dan]

"Some expats need TS and Secret clearance.
Pay: $150-$300 per day"


IMHO ---> Thats peanuts and a waste of your clearance.

[Regulator3]

The contract was up for re award, and most of the big companies bid on it -- Global won. Turnover is on or about 26 Nov. They do not plan to use the existing Ugandans for security. I don't know much more than that.

[Silverbullet]

"Some expats need TS and Secret clearance.
Pay: $150-$300 per day"


IMHO ---> Thats peanuts and a waste of your clearance.

Exactly.

Even without the clearance, $150/day???? That's pulse and a passport level:confused:

[Zulu6]

"Some expats need TS and Secret clearance.
Pay: $150-$300 per day"


IMHO ---> Thats peanuts and a waste of your clearance.


No shit bro,
My ex partner is making 1k a day doing PSD. There are courier jobs here that requires only a Secret and their paying 3 times a much. Personally I have always thought foreigners were taken advantage of by some companies. And if you have ever worked with the Ghurkhas, they are very good people, they are some of the most loyal and fierce fighters I have ever worked with. Sad shit these days when war over shadows the lives of good men and women for the mighty dollar.

[desmor]

Money is dropping seems like there is guys from around who will work for almost no payment just to get Iraq on their resume. I dont get it i started in 04 on 400 a day and ever since then we´ve been hit harder and harder and (operators) now come here to work for nuts, is it only me who doesnt make any sence in this.:confused:

Global are NOT alone in this underbidding that have started also UK based CRG are now offering the sum of 325US pr day with no leave or travel pay doing CP on UK Embassy´s staff in Iraq. To me strange that the foreign office staff dont reflect why they pay half of operators doing the same kind of jobs from other companies.

[Mikey]

Too many people with a little military/LE experience and a school under their belts vying for work there - companies can easily afford to play this game, especially when under increasing pressure fron clients whose security budgets are getting squeezed constantly.
Everyone has a choice - if you don't like the pay don't go.
There are other places. Nigeria is a better earner right now (I've been on $600 plus expenses recently) but, having said that, you don't get to carry and look cool.

[5E1]

Mikey,

If you can't carry a firearm in Nigeria, are you alowed to carry anything at all? You know, baton, chemical defense, ninja throwing stars etc.?

[SOTB]

If you can't carry a firearm in Nigeria, are you alowed to carry anything at all? You know, baton, chemical defense, ninja throwing stars etc.?I'm not trying to be mean -- but if you are worried about what you can "carry", then this type of gig is not for you....

[trailrunner78]

250-300 Ghurkas
25-35 Expats
Some expats need TS and Secret clearance.
Pay: $150-$300 per day


Is it possible that the $150 figure refers to the Ghurka's and the $300
figure to the expats?

[rgrdrew]

Is it possible that the $150 figure refers to the Ghurka's and the $300
figure to the expats?

The LB rep that spoke to us gave a monthly expat salary range of $5K to $15K per month, dependending upon position, responsibility, etc. Ghurkas will be on less than that.

Andrew

[rgrdrew]

The LB rep that spoke to us gave a monthly expat salary range of $5K to $15K per month, dependending upon position, responsibility, etc. Ghurkas will be on less than that.

Andrew

WTF? Dependending? :rolleyes: Been a long day already!

[Regulator3]

Rumor has it that they are speaking to the TCN guards working there now, and may try to retain some or all of them

[079E/R]

Well now that it's been awarded to Global here's hoping that the security of Victory does not descend to the same chaotic shitfight as CP1 at BIAP since they took over from Big Army....talk about faking the funk.

[trailrunner78]

[QUOTE=rgrdrew]The LB rep that spoke to us gave a monthly expat salary range of $5K to $15K per month, dependending upon position, responsibility, etc. Ghurkas will be on less than that.QUOTE]

LB= Louis Berger? Commenting on Kabul, or Victory? Just trying to clarify....

[RGR_Dan]

Is it possible that the $150 figure refers to the Ghurka's and the $300
figure to the expats?


No matter how ya slice it, it sucks. Katrina jobs were paying 300 a day. As for Ghurkas, that term is used way too loosely. Most of the Neps in Iraq are regular army or police. Every so often you'll find some counter terrorism guys.

[Miguel]

UK based CRG are now offering the sum of 325US pr day with no leave or travel pay doing CP on UK Embassy´s staff in Iraq..


I doubt this VERY MUCH. I am around them enough (UK Embassy staff, in multiple places) to know, but I do not directly work for them, but I've never heard a grumble.

Not to say it isn't true, just my .02.

[Miguel]

I'm not trying to be mean -- but if you are worried about what you can "carry", then this type of gig is not for you....


I have been in Iraq continuously since April 2004 and I have found that a vigourous smile and a basic attempt at language can either confuse them enough or disarm the nasty looks you get as you walk right by the majority of doorkeeper problems.....


Of course a smile will not get you from point "A" to "B" in the hot spots of Iraq without solid route analysis and mission planning but it does come in handy.....


Situation dictates, and I do not mean that as a cop out, it's just true.

[rgrdrew]

[QUOTE=rgrdrew]The LB rep that spoke to us gave a monthly expat salary range of $5K to $15K per month, dependending upon position, responsibility, etc. Ghurkas will be on less than that.QUOTE]

LB= Louis Berger? Commenting on Kabul, or Victory? Just trying to clarify....

Yes, LB is Louis Berger. The $150-$300 per day is for Victory, the $5000-$15,000 per month is the expat range for Kabul. And yes, the rumor mentioned earlier about LB offering to hire those already in place is true. At least that's what they said. I'll post when I get confirmation on who gets the contract.

Andrew

[markranson]

No matter how ya slice it, it sucks. Katrina jobs were paying 300 a day. As for Ghurkas, that term is used way too loosely. Most of the Neps in Iraq are regular army or police. Every so often you'll find some counter terrorism guys.

Gentlemen (and Ladies),

I feel that with regard to Gurkhas, some clarification is necessary.

First of all, the word "Neps" is largely a derogatory term in much the same way as Nips, Chinks, Dagos, Wops etc. I have heard it used mostly in Hong Kong within the construction industry where many of the day labourers are of Nepalese descent in that they are sons/daughters of former British Army Gurkha soldiers who have been granted right of abode in Hong Kong as a result of their service in the Territory under British rule. Regretably, I have also heard the term used by some former military personnel (mostly British) who use it in a patronising and condescending way that is intended to create the impression that brown people are somewhat less valuable and/or professionally desirable than white people. Third rate perhaps? Third country nationals maybe? I'm sure that RGR_Dan did not use the term with these views in mind.

Yes, the term "Gurkha" is often used way too loosely. Generally, Gurkhas are deemed to be soldiers who are serving or have served within the British and Indian Army Gurkha regiments. It is also worth remembering that the British Army Gurkha regiments were, until 1947, part of the Imperial Indian Army.

In addition to the above, Gurkhas have been recruited for many years into the Gurkha Contingent of the Singapore Police Force (GCSPF), an excellent specialist unit which, in my time, was recruited as part of the British Army Gurkha recruitment process on behalf of the Singapore Government. I think it still is.

As for "Every so often you'll find some counter terrorism guys", I'm not sure what this means. Gurkha regiments are conventional infantry. I cannot speak with authority on the Indian Army regiments but as far as the British Army Gurkhas are concerned, there has always been a strong emphasis on internal security and counter-insurgency training and operations. Indeed, apart from the odd world war getting in the way, Gurkha units were doing this type of work constantly until the 1970s. In more recent years, along with the rest of the British Army, British Gurkha units have taken on their share of work in the world's trouble spots. Let us also not forget the vast number of Indian Army Gurkhas who have been involved in that country's internal security and counter-insurgency strife since independence from Britain.

Gurkhas are not special forces unless (in the British Army), as individuals, they apply to do special forces selection. Gurkhas are elite and unique conventional infantry. They are truly professional soldiers in that they do not join up for 2 year "let's have a look" enlistments. They join up for as long as they can and so, when they leave the service, they do so with a lot of experience under their belts and egos under control.

I write these words as a former Gurkha officer, the proudest, most defining privilege of my life. I am also a business owner XXXXXXXXXXXXX, closely linked to the employment of former Gurkhas and deeply affected by the ruthless cut of the business knife. As more and more people and companies leap onto a particular bandwagon, profit margins shrink and costs have to be kept down in order to win contracts. I understand business dynamics as well as the nexts man but I have never been able to adjust psychologically to the need to stiff people in order to make a buck. Also, there come a point where the cash available is simply not enough to ensure quality and in my business (landmine & UXO clearance) and the business of most people on this forum, poor quality means rather more than a bad-tasting hamburger!

So, whilst I can't do much to affect declining remuneration, I hope I can at least shed some light on who the Gurkhas are. Hope it helps.

Lastly, on the matter of business, all those MBAs out there will be able to tell you that Peter F. Drucker said: "Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right thing..."

Best wishes to you all,

Mark

[Silverbullet]

Welcome to the board.

We've had this discussion before.

Most of the Nepalese in Iraq that are being called Gurkas are are not the quality of the very competitively selected UK Reg't. They are guys recruited by UK companies and marketed as "Gurkas" to imply they are the same standard as were used by the UK prior to the Reg't being disbanded.

There may be some Gurkas that are working the international circut who were part of this Reg't but it is not the majority.

[Argyll 50]

I doubt this VERY MUCH. I am around them enough (UK Embassy staff, in multiple places) to know, but I do not directly work for them, but I've never heard a grumble.

Not to say it isn't true, just my .02.

Miguel,
CRG are paying their new starts on the FCO contract £172 a day, I believe also that's with unpaid leave, and unpaid travel.
There is a rumour circulating amongst CRG guys that a meeting this week is to cut guys who are on £200 a day down to £172....

Regards,

SB.......I have an inteview with a major UK player on Thursday mate.:cool: :cool:

[mike792]

TCNs on some DOS contracts are getting a whopping $35 per day down from $100 last year. That is criminal. (I mean business)

[Argyll 50]

Just a sign of the times mate!

[10thvet]

Should be "thats Contracting" ...(from my limited experiance in it)


edited for spelling

[rgrdrew]

Most of the Nepalese in Iraq that are being called Gurkas are are not the quality of the very competitively selected UK Reg't. They are guys recruited by UK companies and marketed as "Gurkas" to imply they are the same standard as were used by the UK prior to the Reg't being disbanded.

There may be some Gurkas that are working the international circut who were part of this Reg't but it is not the majority.

This has been my experience...while some of the "Ghurkas" with Global at the embassy in Kabul are actual Ghurkas, they are in the minority. There was a group brought in about a month ago (20 or so) that looked like farmers. At least half were sent back home because of basic firearms safety issues and inability to qualify with their weapons. When companies pay peanuts, they get monkeys.

Drew

[markranson]

Welcome to the board.

We've had this discussion before.

Most of the Nepalese in Iraq that are being called Gurkas are are not the quality of the very competitively selected UK Reg't. They are guys recruited by UK companies and marketed as "Gurkas" to imply they are the same standard as were used by the UK prior to the Reg't being disbanded.

There may be some Gurkas that are working the international circut who were part of this Reg't but it is not the majority.

Thanks for the welcome Silverbullet.

What you describe is yet another manifestation of "business" at its worst. Recruitment of genuine Gurkhas, either British Army or Indian Army is not particularly difficult. The men have records that should be requested of them during the recruitment process, problem is, this requires an honest and scrupulous recruitment agent in Nepal; now there's the rub! In Nepal there are thousands of recruitment agencies purporting to supply genuine former Gurkha soldiers and normally, these agencies will tell you that their credentials are assured due to their membership of NAFEA, the Nepal Association of Foreign Emploment Agencies.

Like most business organizations, NAFEA is self-serving however, unlike many, it is also exploitative and unregulated. In many if not most cases, Nepalese workers (including Gurkhas) recruited by these people for overseas work are charged a huge registration fee. The legal fee is about 2000 Rupees but illegal fees of 100,000 Rupees are not uncommon. Subsequently, these overseas workers arrive at their place of work already heavily in debt. It seems that NAFEA and MAFIA sound similar for good reason. Companies in Iraq who do not monitor their agents in Nepal are often aiding and abetting criminals. The fact that supposedly competent, well-managed major players in the security industry can allow such mistakes is appalling and calls into question their professionalism.

Next, the Gurkha regiment has not been disbanded. In India the Gurkha regiments retain their original designations (1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th & 11th) however, in the British Army, the 2nd, 6th, 7th & 10th were amalgamated in the early nineties to form a single regiment called the Royal Gurkha Rifles of which there are two battalions. Engineer, Signals and Logistics/Tranport units were retained at squadron strength.

As such, there are many thousands of retired genuine Gurkhas available however, my sources in Nepal tell me that it has become increasingly difficult to find ex-British Army men die to Iraq and Afghanistan. Since India's Gurkha strength is maintained at many tens of thousands (compared to the Brit's 3000) there are aparrently still many ex-Indian Army Gurkhas available for employment and they are fine soldiers.

My apologies if I appear to be sermonising on Gurkhas when most of you are more concerned with your own prospects for employment (so am I). I have pushed this point because it serves to show just how shitty things get in a business environment and that PMCs are not immune from such pressures; this in a work environment where the tenets of sound management, professionalism, honour and leadership should be paramount.

All I can say is that when you go for an interview, make sure it's a two-way process.

MR

[leopardprey]

MR,

Good informative post. I have many former Indian Gurkhas working on my project, and they are very top notch. Respectful, disciplined, hardworking, tactically sounds, and do not bitch or complain. Only thing we have found out is they do not have much initiative. As long as you give them clear orders and good leadership, they are good to go and do what they are told. Very good shooting skills, many of them outshot the Expats at the range quals. English skills basic, but not bad. Have had to give them driving training. Good troops. Many of them now have their homes in Darjeeling, India. I have had many offers to visit their homes, and plan a trip there in the near future. LP out.

[markranson]

MR,

Good informative post. I have many former Indian Gurkhas working on my project, and they are very top notch. Respectful, disciplined, hardworking, tactically sounds, and do not bitch or complain. Only thing we have found out is they do not have much initiative. As long as you give them clear orders and good leadership, they are good to go and do what they are told. Very good shooting skills, many of them outshot the Expats at the range quals. English skills basic, but not bad. Have had to give them driving training. Good troops. Many of them now have their homes in Darjeeling, India. I have had many offers to visit their homes, and plan a trip there in the near future. LP out.

Thanks LP.

What you describe sounds like Gurkhas to me. That said, I have never really found a problem with initiative. I've always found the boys most willing to offer advice and give their opinions when there is time for such democracy. I guess it take a slightly different form of leadership to get this out of them, that's all. This may be due to their inherant respect for rank and position etc. so they need to be told that their knowledge and views are valued. Us Brits (and other Westerners) are so used to offering our opinions as and when we wish that we probably forget that other folks might be a bit shy about it.

Also, for the Indian Army guys, they come from a big army with not much room for initiative and scant exposure to English I guess.

Good marksmen they definitely are but be careful about the driving training!

Enjoy the Himalayas!

MR

[markranson]

MR,

Good informative post. I have many former Indian Gurkhas working on my project, and they are very top notch. Respectful, disciplined, hardworking, tactically sounds, and do not bitch or complain. Only thing we have found out is they do not have much initiative. As long as you give them clear orders and good leadership, they are good to go and do what they are told. Very good shooting skills, many of them outshot the Expats at the range quals. English skills basic, but not bad. Have had to give them driving training. Good troops. Many of them now have their homes in Darjeeling, India. I have had many offers to visit their homes, and plan a trip there in the near future. LP out.

Thanks LP.

What you describe sounds like Gurkhas to me. That said, I have never really found a problem with initiative. I've always found the boys most willing to offer advice and give their opinions when there is time for such democracy. I guess it take a slightly different form of leadership to get this out of them, that's all. This may be due to their inherant respect for rank and position etc. so they need to be told that their knowledge and views are valued. Us Brits (and other Westerners) are so used to offering our opinions as and when we wish that we probably forget that other folks might be a bit shy about it.

Also, for the Indian Army guys, they come from a big army with not much room for initiative and scant exposure to English I guess.

Good marksmen they definitely are but be careful about the driving training!

Enjoy the Himalayas!

MR

[Trainee59]

Welcome to the board.

We've had this discussion before.

Most of the Nepalese in Iraq that are being called Gurkas are are not the quality of the very competitively selected UK Reg't. They are guys recruited by UK companies and marketed as "Gurkas" to imply they are the same standard as were used by the UK prior to the Reg't being disbanded.

There may be some Gurkas that are working the international circut who were part of this Reg't but it is not the majority.

This must have been the program that the "Ghurkas" EODT hired came in on. Most (not all) of them could not qualify on the range to meet basic requirements of the CEA program without serious basic shooting instruction. We had them on the range and the instructor got very frustrated with them. He had me proned out with an M-4 shooting a standard 300 meter qual target from 50 meters. I was exagerating breathing and trigger pull so that we could breach the language barrier. I threw 10 of 10 in the ring.....they thought I was a shooting God. It was quite comical. Right up to the point where I realized that my survival might be depending on what these guys could hit. Not funny. Weapons descipline was non-existant.

Most of them qualled after several tries. I think they set a record for number of rounds fired.

I still believe some of those holes looked suspiciously like pencil pokes......but.......who am I?

[Argyll 50]

I wouldn't be too hard on these guys, I know some Western guys who also qualified using the Mk 2 pencil !! on the same Quals!

[markranson]

This must have been the program that the "Ghurkas" EODT hired came in on. Most (not all) of them could not qualify on the range to meet basic requirements of the CEA program without serious basic shooting instruction. We had them on the range and the instructor got very frustrated with them. He had me proned out with an M-4 shooting a standard 300 meter qual target from 50 meters. I was exagerating breathing and trigger pull so that we could breach the language barrier. I threw 10 of 10 in the ring.....they thought I was a shooting God. It was quite comical. Right up to the point where I realized that my survival might be depending on what these guys could hit. Not funny. Weapons descipline was non-existant.

Most of them qualled after several tries. I think they set a record for number of rounds fired.

I still believe some of those holes looked suspiciously like pencil pokes......but.......who am I?

They were not former Gurkha soldiers, it's as simple as that. Nepalese civilians perhaps, but not former Gurkha soldiers. I trust EODT are more careful about their recruitment of other nationalities/professions!

MR

[OZEbullfighter]

MR --- awsome to see you stand by your former REGT... I admire that quality in a leader so much i wish you had of served with me...

[markranson]

MR --- awsome to see you stand by your former REGT... I admire that quality in a leader so much i wish you had of served with me...

OZEbullfighter,

Thanks mate. I've always found it easy to stand by my former regiment because of the men it consisted of. The old adage that there are no bad soldiers, only bad officers is true to a large degree. As an officer I was always in awe of the Gurkhas and their desire to be the best and it used to upset me when fellow officers took the privilege of serving with these guys for granted. I'm not trying to be sanctimonious here because now, as an older bloke, I look back on my service and know that there were many occasions when I could have done better.

As for the Gurkhas themselves, we have to look at them in context. Joining the military is considered an honour but it is also a ticket to a much better life. Their motivations for becoming a soldier are more acute than ours and their desire to be the best is motivated in part by the desire to remain in service for as long as possible. When they do join, soldiering is their life.

For all my support of the Gurkhas, I am a realist too. Nepal is a Third World country with little in the way of social support mechanisms above and beyond the family. I have seen plenty of Gurkhas return home only to start behaving in the same way as Third World scumbags. Quite a few members of NAFEA (mentioned in my earlier post) are former Gurkha soldiers.

That said, our "First World" scumbags are pretty good at shafting their fellow man!

As for serving with you, hey, it's a small world and I need to earn a dollar as much as the next man. Maybe see you soon wherever!

Best wishes,

MR

[glassiam]

I trust EODT are more careful about their recruitment of other nationalities/professions!
MR


I wouldn't bet on that. They are hiring on the pulse and passport creds right now.

[glassiam]

I trust EODT are more careful about their recruitment of other nationalities/professions!
MR


I wouldn't bet on that. They are hiring on the pulse and passport creds right now.

[rgrdrew]

Latest word on the Victory gig is as follows:

Americans/ex-pats are being offered $162 a day. You can guess who's taking them up on it. Granted, it might be young guys just out of the military to whom this money might be double what they made as a PFC; and maybe they've seen combat tours in Iraq or Afghanistan. But it doesn't leave much room for older guys (BTDT) with the wide and varied experience required for dealing with situations not covered in the ROE.

Good luck,
Drew

[leopardprey]

Welcome to the way things are going to go. Why pay $400 a day, when there are plenty of personnel willing to do the job for $162. There are many US personnel that work for KBR at Camp Victory for only areound $60-80k per year. Remember, until 911 $58,000 per year overseas tax free was really good money. Lots of young joes would think the same. Wish I could have gone overseas to a secure base (Camp Victory) and have made $58K tax free plus all my room and board when I was in my twenties and out of the Army.

IMHO, there are about 1-2 more years left for high paying jobs overseas. Then it will just be a really few in managment positions or a few with select spec ops skills that will be making over 6 figures per year.

[M18ClaymoreHeadbanger]

IMHO, there are about 1-2 more years left for high paying jobs overseas. Then it will just be a really few in managment positions or a few with select spec ops skills that will be making over 6 figures per year.

Have to agree with Leopardprey on this call, if you want a benchmark to plan things buy, timetable has been set for Iraqi's to take over the security at 18 months.

[tboy]

Have to agree with Leopardprey on this call, if you want a benchmark to plan things buy, timetable has been set for Iraqi's to take over the security at 18 months.

The question then must be asked, with the Iraqi security forces now taking over more control of the country, the coalition looking to wind down their commitment and with the pay steadily decreasing. Is it worth the risk vs money really worth it? Start looking elsewhere now IMHO. There are jobs going in less volatile parts of the world for a lot more dollars.

[leopardprey]

There is a world outside of Iraq. Some here get to addicted to the money and make plans (like buying that $500,000 house and mercedes) like these high paying Iraq jobs are going to go on forever. I always tell those new to the contract security world, to treat every paycheck as your last one.

[norts]

...There are jobs going in less volatile parts of the world for a lot more dollars.

I would be interested in what jobs and where. Aside from a few niche gigs, I have yet to see a real job come out that your average PSD in Iraq could get that pays over $500 a day. I have had plenty of BS emails about work in places like Colombia but nothing that even sounded plausible enough to warrant a resume to be sent.

Not many people would work in Iraq over somewhere else for the same money, let alone less money.

[SOTB]

Not many people would work in Iraq over somewhere else for the same money, let alone less money.Not many people currently complaining about the work in Iraq would get a job elsewhere for the same money -- let alone less money (I do not read your post as complaining)....

[markranson]

I would be interested in what jobs and where. Aside from a few niche gigs, I have yet to see a real job come out that your average PSD in Iraq could get that pays over $500 a day. I have had plenty of BS emails about work in places like Colombia but nothing that even sounded plausible enough to warrant a resume to be sent.

Not many people would work in Iraq over somewhere else for the same money, let alone less money.

I think that Iraq and Afghanistan (especially Iraq) are relatively unique in that the circumstances in those countries have created a demand for specific specializations (PSD etc.) that security companies (and their employees) can exploit to make good money. The urgency of the requirement has also meant that some employers cannot afford to be too choosy when it comes to qualifications and experience. Many, if not most, well qualified and experienced specialists have been snapped but, as we know, the supply/demand situation has led to situations where companies have recruited people without scruitinizing the recruitment process too closely (Nepalese masquerading as former Gurkha soldiers / former soldiers working on PSD teams who lack the correct experience, and almost more importantly, are of the wrong character for such work etc.).

As the security industry in Iraq/Afghanistan "matures" businesses will be less inclined to pay company X US$1,000 per man per day and so, company X will not be able to continue paying it's PSD men US$400 to US$600 per day. As we all know this is already happening and that is why there is now talk about similar, high-paying "gigs" outside Iraq and Afghanistan.

Whilst I'm sure the above is true in places like Colombia, the fact is that the security situations in places outside of I&A do not necessarily require droves of specialist operators; what they require is security management and I'll come back to this in a mnute.

I'm no authority on what jobs are going where but I spend a lot of time on the internet looking for them (it's far better to spend time on a job somewhere networking since the value of the internet is limited). I access a lot of recruitment company websites and I look for security management positions because that's what I am and I'm desperately trying to get away from being pigeon-holed in the landmine & UXO clearance business. What I see is a lot (actually, not that many) of corporate security positions for the likes of Goldman Sachs/ABN Amro etc. One of these jobs on expat terms in Hong Kong or Tokyo would be just dandy but they tend to go to people who've been doing just that type of work in another company (access control, subcontracted guard service, business continuity planning etc.). The only "dirty boots-type" security positions I've seen advertised outside I&A seem to be in places like Sakhalin Island and Nigeria for the oil & gas industry but, as I said before, they tend to be management positions. This means that they want people who understand not only the needs of security but also the commercial pressures associated with trying to do business within budget. IE, someone who realises that he won't get all the best gadgets/resources to assist him with the security problem; someone who will make the best of the compromise that has to be made to get the job done; someone who provides management with solutions rather than problems.

Also, these employers are not necessarily under the same pressures as the folks in I&A so they can afford to be more selective. For Sakhalin, they would prefer a Russian speaker and experience in the oil & gas industry is a must etc. These guys often do their recruiting through agencies who compound the difficulties for us by recommending other requirements that allow their recruiters to eliminate CVs by "box ticking" - No tick in that box? Sorry, no invite for interview! Many of us could have done the job but we don't get the opportunity because our CV does not fit the jobspec precisely. It happens all the time and that's why it's better to be in a position to network whilst actually under employment.

I suppose that what I'm trying to say is that in all the time I've spent searching the internet, I have seen few if any vacancies for the type of "specialists", operatives, independent contractors (or whatever you wish to call them) that you see recruited for I&A. I'm not saying they aren't out there, just that I personally haven't seen any.

Best wishes to all.

MR

[leopardprey]

I think that Iraq and Afghanistan (especially Iraq) are relatively unique in that the circumstances in those countries have created a demand for specific specializations (PSD etc.) that security companies (and their employees) can exploit to make good money. The urgency of the requirement has also meant that some employers cannot afford to be too choosy when it comes to qualifications and experience. Many, if not most, well qualified and experienced specialists have been snapped but, as we know, the supply/demand situation has led to situations where companies have recruited people without scruitinizing the recruitment process too closely (Nepalese masquerading as former Gurkha soldiers / former soldiers working on PSD teams who lack the correct experience, and almost more importantly, are of the wrong character for such work etc.).

Tell me about it!! Not the type of background screening going on for many expats that should be going on. LP

[Sniper111]

The thing that makes me wonder is the quality of people who are going to go for 5K or so a month.

My first job in this field was at 333/day for a rather cushy static gig. Food sucked, had a LOT of improvements to do to the site and it wasn't the safest neighborhood but I was greener than green and made 2x the scratch.

I'm not saying that people who take this are all going to be unqualified asshats, just seems to up the fuckup factor exponentially.

[M18ClaymoreHeadbanger]

One of the things that I do in looking for gigs is first, look where there is problems (civil strife, conflicts, etc.). One of the sources that I have used for that is International Crisis Group, (http://www.crisisgroup.org/), each month the put out a report called Crisis Watch, listing all conflicts or potential conflict areas around the world. From there look at the countries makeup in natural resources and what the situation is politically. Then comes the hard part, ask around those that you know and see if anyone has any news and follow up on it, look at what companies are working in that country and do not limit your research to security companies, many companies have thier own in-house security teams. Look and see what they have going on. Like looking for work anywhere, sometimes it requires "hitting the pavement and knocking on doors" so to speak, see what the companies have going on. That may be one way you can approach looking for work outside Iraq and Afghanistan.