who's the better of the lot?

[subdrvr]

Of all the programmed learning materials out there that can be purchased at B&N or BAM or online somewhere, who make the better language package.

I would like to be able to carry on a conversation in several languages in the years to come. The Rosetta Stone seems nice yet carries a hefty price for all three levels. Are there others that you would prefer?

i have 2 years of hebrew, 1 year of russian, 1 year of spanish- all academic. I am EOD the boss wont send me to DLI as of yet so i am on my own.

any thoughts?

[M18ClaymoreHeadbanger]

Rosetta Stone, Eurotalk are both pretty good, there are interactive programs, both work on same principles. Only thing I do not like about them is lack of just audio so you can load them on a .mp3 player and listen when you do not want to sit in front of a computer the entire time.

[shark11]

Im a big fan of the rosetta stone but next to that I would recommend me the Ultimate series, i.e. Ultimate Arabic etc.

[flb3]

I am glad that someone actually brought this up. I have been wanting to learn some Arabic, but not sure which type of instruction would be the best. I picked up something from Borders, but that was basically how to get through town or something. I want to learn it, and as the Rosetta Stone commercials state, think in the language. Now if I could just find something that could teach you how to write and read it that would be a big bonus.

flb3

[CKWCH]

I am currently working through the Rossetta Stone Arabic program now. it is an excellent program and although pricey, I feel it is worth the money. I also picked up several books and audio cd's. Of the books the best was Arabic For Dummies (go figure). It included an audio cd which only included very basic material. I would also recommend getting a good Arabic to English dictionary as a cross reference. I have only scratched the surface on writing though and could not give you any sound advice on that. As an afterthough you might think about what dialect or region of Arabic you want to study. I began learning Arabic in Iraq and have discovered many differences between the Iraqi dialect and the so called "proper Arabic" taught by Rossetta Stone. I am by no means an expert on any of this I can speak enough Arabic to hold a very basic conversation but am not fluent by any means.
Anyone with more experience on the matter?

[mccarthy]

If you are an MSA beginner and you want to learn to read and write Arabic, Alif Baa from Georgetown University Press is a good place to start. It teaches you the letters and the sounds, some basic vocab, and a little bit of grammar.

The second book of the series, Al-Kitaab Part One is much more in depth with a significant amount of grammar, much more vocab, and some culture.

The good thing about these books is they come with multiple DVD’s that go with the lessons. Both Alif Baa and Al-Kitaab are textbooks, so it is also worth getting the answer keys for them if you are teaching yourself (which I don’t think is actually possible with Arabic). All of these books are available on Amazon, but make sure you get the second editions; otherwise you’ll end up with VHS and cassette tapes.

Also be aware that since these are college textbooks, the vocabulary has a college focus. If you learn from these books, you’ll need to pick up your military vocab elsewhere.

[ContinentalOp]

I've had some good experiences with Pimsleur's packages, but they aren't for everyone. Damn near every one of them starts off with a question/answer lesson which centers around picking up a broad in a bar. Even the Eastern Arabic CDs. (Just try that out in Riyaad. See how far that gets you.)

For French, the best experience I've had is with Michel Thomas' CDs. The guy is former French resistance and "teacher to the stars." His approach is nice and natural, but you'll need to combine it with a book if you want to get your spelling down.

Honestly, as you probably already know from studying Russian and Hebrew, the most effective methodology is an eclectic mix of different systems. if you can't find native speakers to work with in your area, then foreign films make a good line of secondary support.

[Massgrunt]

I'm really liking Pimsleur. I've got the MP3s of Egyptian dialect 1&2. The first couple lessons are basically things I already know in pidgin Iraqi dialect, but it's pretty close and is definitely helping.

I was on a plane a while ago, and the kid next to me was having a phone conversation in Russian. An extended conversation. I had no idea he wasn't a native speaker until he hung up. He was using Pimsleur, a Mormon missionary.

[Royal]

I didn't get on with Rosetta Stone, but I was using it while at DSL and getting native speaker tuition (I also agree with M18ClaymoreHeadbanger about not being able to put it on your iPod).

A bunch of us who were struugling got kids textbooks (kindergarten level, first 1000 words in arabic & the 100 word exercise book) with flash cards and cartoon drawings - that got us up to spead reading and writing...

As far as a dictionary goes, everyone I know swears by Hans Wehr - just learn your roots :D

[hisham-shazam]

eurotalk sucks ass, brother-in any ling. Rosetta Stone is free, so you can't go too wrong there unless you're trying to dig into a cat 4 ling like Korean, Arabic, Japanese, Chinese.
Living Language, Transparent Language, Georgetown Language products, some people like Pimsleur, but you only get to "Would you like a glass of tea or a cup of coffee?" and Egyptian Arabic is NO THING like Iraqi, just FYI.
Alif Baa and Al-Kitab (as one member mentions) are good starters for modern standard Arabic. In addition to about a 3 foot high stack of books and 16 MP3 discs for MSA from DLI, I have DLIs Basic Russian, DLI's Spanish, and about every commercial product ever made for MSA and some dialect.
Name the product, I'll give my opinion if wanted.
CHEERS

[Rabbi]

I am glad that someone actually brought this up. I have been wanting to learn some Arabic, but not sure which type of instruction would be the best. I picked up something from Borders, but that was basically how to get through town or something. I want to learn it, and as the Rosetta Stone commercials state, think in the language. Now if I could just find something that could teach you how to write and read it that would be a big bonus.

flb3

If you're near DC, I know that the Hillel at George Washington University conducts free multi-level Arabic classes. You can try that. Also Global Languages at GWU does many languages for free. If anyone's near NYC, I can friggin teach you how to read and write A-rabic.

[Ned&StacyFan]

Hey People,

Soon after 9-11 I got my hands on level 1 arabic from RS, IMHO it's a good starting point because it builds vocab. A few years ago, the local community college began a night course in MSA and that helped me out a lot more. In addition to the prof knowing the "street" version of the language (He lived & worked in Egypt with a marketing firm for over 7 years & traveled to many other areas in the region. So he was able to point out things you wouldn't be able to get with a home study course I.E. if the person you're speaking with pronounces this word, this way, he's from Lebanon. That type of thing.) We had a number of people in the class who were native speakers from different parts of the middle-east. So we got their take on what one would say on the street in their home town etc. If you have the time, I would go that route as well.


Good Luck,
N&SF

[t10Guy]

Rosetta Stone Ultimate.. used it for spanish. loved it.

[BertF]

Pidgin question. I have a propaganda leaflet from WWII probably dropped in Papua-New Guinea with a Pidgin message. I know it says that the natives will tell the Japanese that the Americans are landing so the Japanese can come and kill them, but it would be nice to have an exact quote. If anyone knows their pidgin pretty well plese drop me a line and I will send a scan.

Sgmbert@hotmail.com

[Greenhat]

Get a long-haired dictionary. Best way to learn, period.

[SIERRA_339]

Short of GH's suggestion which worked for me but can get expensive on several levels, Rosetta Stone. That principle is what the Border Patrol academy has gone to instead of the crap they used to do us.

[random]

Resurrecting this thread...

I basically need to come up with a plan to learn basic Arabic to get into a grad school. As in, I need to submit this plan and get it approved. Been reading the opinions on the different products out there, and I have a few questions.

Rosetta Stone is pretty popular, but also really expensive. Anything else out there that's a little cheaper? (I'm on a student budget).
Alif Baa and the answers keys, I can get those used so they're a definite option.
I'm going to search around for an Arabic podcast or something that I can use to listen to the language. Any recommendations? And long-haired dictionaries are not an option.

Is there anything that I'm not thinking of? This course basically needs to convince admissions that I'll be able to be at the intermediate level after this and a summer intensive program. The summer course is supposed to bring me to the intermediate level in and of itself, but apparently most students don't put in the study time so they want you to do some stuff prior.

And taking a class next semester is not an option. I'm already at 22 credits and there's no way I can get my adviser to sign off on another 6.

[Lagnaippe]

I don't want to be the pessimist here, but I have to say that if you've already got 22 credits on tap for the spring semester, you will barely have time to learn enough Arabic to be "comfortable" in the intensive program. I would highly recommend that you start with the alphabet and get it memorized. Once you've got that down, do a lot of listening and parroting. Being able to recognize the letters and form their sounds is the basic first step and what you realistically have time to do.

I took Korean at DLI, studied Hebrew with friends in Israel and in the States, Farsi with Rosetta Stone, in addition to learning Italian in Italy and Spanish by bits and pieces. Believe me when I tell you that pronunciation and letter recognition are the first and most critical steps to learning a language vastly different from English.

I love Rosetta Stone, by the way.

[bmbsqd]

Subdvr,

Unfortunately the mil will likely tell you they will provide you with a translator, so sending you to DLI won't happen. Having been myself (Korean), I recommend RS for any language.

Also....you can deduct it from your taxes.

Advice: you will never completely/properly learn to speak a foreign language until you learn to read and write it. And, some people are better at learning languages similar to English (Spanish, French, etc) and some are better at learning languages completely different (Asian, Arabic, etc.). Find where you fit in and go for it. You may be surprised to learn that a foreign language with similarities to English is slowing you down. When you have to just "go for it" with a language that you cannot internally keep comparing to English, it can be scary. I fall in to the second column....I learn languages totally dissimilar to English.

Greenhat....x100! A dictionary of the language you are learning is the BEST tool you can have (English to Arabic, for example). My Korean wife had never learned to use a dictionary so I actually taught her how to use one.

[random]

Your post

Oh believe me, I know this is going to be difficult. The only thing I have going for me is that 6 of the credits are an internship. So the podcasts (news programs, talks shows, etc) in Arabic are going to be my metro-ride listening material.

Thanks for the advice to start with the alphabet. Will definitely do that. And I've been watching some ebay auctions for Rosetta Stone. The price isn't too bad there. I speak a couple of languages other than English, some that are similar and one that isn't. I'm hoping that will make it a bit easier.

We'll see if I can pull this off. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Supposedly. :p

[Spinner]

My library is now offering an online language training course called Mango. It only offers 12 languages at the moment, and I've heard it's still being beta tested, so no telling how effective it is.

If you're library has developed a website, you might want to send them a suggestion to subscribe.

I'm thinking of taking a test drive on the Brazilian Portugese course, just for fun.

[MQuinlan]

There is a large suite of software and content, called the CL-150, that is designed to support language learning and assessment for specialized US military and intelligence purposes. The CL-150 is licensed for use by, among others, all USSOCOM personnel, uniformed and civilian. That includes HQ, theater, components. There is no charge for any of it.

I'm the CEO of the company, Transparent Language, that develops the CL-150. You can see demos of the various applications at the CL-150 home page, www.transparent.com/usg.

On the other side of the login, you will find resources for dozens of languages, including a lot of material for Modern Standard Arabic. You can get a CL-150 authorization code from your CLPM. That authorization code will allow you to create your personal login and password on the CL-150 home page (see above.) Alternatively, you can get to the CL-150 materials via direct access links on Joint Language University, NKO or the AF ISR CLPM portal, if you already have access to one of those.

The primary point of contact for the USSOCOM CL-150 license is Mr. Mark Roemer at SOF Culture and Language Office (SOFCLO, formerly SOFLO) in Tampa. I'm confident he is more than willing to steer you to the right path if contacted. Let me know if you need his contact info.

For those not currently part of SOCOM, there is a free commercial product for learning critical vocabulary and phrases in any of 70 languages. It's a Transparent Language product line, so you need to think about my bias here. But FWIW, the free downloads, including for MSA, are at www.byki.com/fls. This is a full program, not a trial, although there is a more-capable paid version available for those who want to do that.

The Byki software program is the civilian version of the Rapid Rote program that is part of the CL-150. Rapid Rote is more capable than the free version of Byki, so if you are current SOCOM, I would suggest Rapid Rote instead. Rapid Rote in the CL-150 also has lots of specialized content that the civilian version does not have access to.

I'd be glad to answer any other questions.

[Greenhat]

Read the stickies and post an intro.

[MQuinlan]

Done. Thanks for the reminder, Greenhat. BTW, I notice a number of folks here are military but not SOCOM. FWIW, CL-150 language software (see my post above) is also licensed for use at no charge by all personnel (active, guard and reserve except IRR) of USN, USMC, Army MI, Army FAO, AF ISR, SAF IA, DIA and DLI, among others.

[Markslams]

Alif-Baa and Al-Kitaab come with CDs that can be ripped to your computer and thus transferred to your Ipod. You can also listen to them in your car, I do both. Another thing I don't see mentioned is getting the "501 Arabic Verbs" book. Thing is awesome for learning some really good verbs plus it has full conjugation and tashkeel.

[random]

Awesome, I'll check them out. I ended up going with livemocha instead of Rosetta Stone, and I'm loving it so far (except for the fact that I got distracted with Portuguese).