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Spiritman
2 March 2007, 19:16
Met a gentlemen at a Dodgers spring training game today. He was wearing a UDT/SEAL hat and polo shirt...both were very worn.
As always, stuck out my hand and thanked him for his service.
He appeared to be around 70 (but who knows). Asked him if he served with the UDT's and he said yes with Team 3 in Korean. I was honored to meet this man (hero in my non-military book) that was one of only 300 valiant men that fought with very little recognition.
Then he said is was SEAL with Team 13. First thought was that I must have missed something but I do not remember any Team 13. Didn't say anything...just asked his name.
Forgive my ignorance or maybe on these forums you should shit my ignorance but was/is there a Team 13? I thought the Teams only went to 12.
His last name was Reynalds (he said it was spelled with an "a").
sm

Cass
2 March 2007, 19:57
Met a gentlemen at a Dodgers spring training game today. He was wearing a UDT/SEAL hat and polo shirt...both were very worn.
As always, stuck out my hand and thanked him for his service.
He appeared to be around 70 (but who knows). Asked him if he served with the UDT's and he said yes with Team 3 in Korean. I was honored to meet this man (hero in my non-military book) that was one of only 300 valiant men that fought with very little recognition.
Then he said is was SEAL with Team 13. First thought was that I must have missed something but I do not remember any Team 13. Didn't say anything...just asked his name.
Forgive my ignorance or maybe on these forums you should shit my ignorance but was/is there a Team 13? I thought the Teams only went to 12.
His last name was Reynalds (he said it was spelled with an "a").
sm

SM
Your keen ear compells a good answer.

We have several Reynolds but no Reynalds.

In 1954 UDT-3 had a name change to UDT-12. UDT-5 then also became UDT-13. There never has been a SEAL Team 13. As an added note, UDT-1 became UDT-11. UDT-2 to UDT-21. UDT-4 (Movie Makers) to UDT-22. :D

Spiritman
2 March 2007, 20:40
Cass,
Thank you for the quick and thorough response.
My other question is based on the "Read before posting in this section"..."verify someones claim of graduating BUD/S". I have not been able to find the date when the organized program known as BUD/s started. Is it possible that he served in Korean as UDT and thus not in the BUD/s database? Sounds crazy (actually not on this forum) but maybe he did serve in Korean as UDT and then wanted to impress his sphere of influence (kids, grandkids, etc.) because he thought they would not be satisfied with 'just" UDT and now has to live this lie.
Either way I feel sorry for this old guy...taking this lie to his grave. What a sorry ass way to live a great life.
sm

trident86
2 March 2007, 23:23
Cass,
I made the same assessment as you, then went back and checked one last thing on a whim. We have a listing for a ENS John F. Raynolds, UDTTRA Class 006 (1952). I don't have a listing for his Team assignments, but I assume he meant to claim UDT-3 and later UDT-13. There is a debate over whether or not UDT guys are considered SEALs. Many older frogmen refer to themselves as SEALs, since most people nowadays don't recognize the acronym "UDT". The UDT men of old are our forefathers, so I think they can call themselves anything they like.

My guess is Spiritman met our John "Raynolds", but I could be wrong. I sent e-mail to Mr. Raynolds to see if he recalls your encounter.

Spiritman
3 March 2007, 09:07
Trident86,
Thank you! I had the same thought about the placement of the "a" but didn't want to ask you to do more searching. Having seen so many posers over the years did not want to believe this gentleman was living a lie...still standing by on the e-mail return.
This makes perfect sense to me...the UDT 3, UDT 13 confusion. Without doubt he said SEAL Team 13 but I have seen enough people slapped around for assuming this stuff. Come to think of it though...most of the slapping was by old Frogs...lol.
Throwing myself under the bus now...but I swear this man carried the spirit of the Frogman with him. They say the first thing to go (well some say) is your memory so he may not remember our brief conversation but he might clear up the fact that there was no SEAL Team 13. (unless he wants there to be one) Remembering a couple of years ago when the Museum took UDT out of their name and it hit the fan hard...now UDT is now back in the name...where it belongs.
Thanks again.
sm

Carl Spackler
3 March 2007, 12:09
And UDT-11 became SEAL Team 5 hence the eleven on the setting sun in the old Team 5 patch.
3744

Cass
3 March 2007, 16:52
Trident86,
Thank you! I had the same thought about the placement of the "a" but didn't want to ask you to do more searching. Having seen so many posers over the years did not want to believe this gentleman was living a lie...still standing by on the e-mail return.
This makes perfect sense to me...the UDT 3, UDT 13 confusion. Without doubt he said SEAL Team 13 but I have seen enough people slapped around for assuming this stuff. Come to think of it though...most of the slapping was by old Frogs...lol.
Throwing myself under the bus now...but I swear this man carried the spirit of the Frogman with him. They say the first thing to go (well some say) is your memory so he may not remember our brief conversation but he might clear up the fact that there was no SEAL Team 13. (unless he wants there to be one) Remembering a couple of years ago when the Museum took UDT out of their name and it hit the fan hard...now UDT is now back in the name...where it belongs.
Thanks again.
sm

Spiritman
Frogs of the Korean War era appear on the Database. There were no SEAL Teams during that era to get transposed in the nomenclature of the times. Ha!

I thank Trident86 for following up with his search re Raynolds/Reynalds. I pride myself on having never made an error on Frog or SEAL verifications, and a little help is always welcome.

The UDT-SEAL Museum did in fact delete the "UDT" part of the name for a period of approx 8 months or so. But today the title is UDT-SEAL Museum.

Because I work Team history many times a week I am up on Team nomenclature of the Korean era. However, an old Frog who reaches back into the past only once or twice per year may get the nomenclature mixed. i.e. UDT-3 versus UDT-13. Add to that UDT-5 as a new Team (soon thereafter to be UDT-13) could of easily recieved seasoned Frogs from UDT-3. UDT-5 was commissioned Sep 1951, taking their first combat tour as UDT-5 in Jan 1952.

I have many rough notes taken from snail mail and phone calls, plus many emails, and official docunments from the Korean era leading to finalizing the UDT Rosters for the Korean era UDT Plaques that now hang in the UDT-SEAL Museum for UDT's-1, 3, and 5. The names on these plaques were assembled by men of the Korean era, with the contributors ranking from R/Admiral down to Petty Officer upon their departure from the service. I have no notes on UDT-2 or UDT-4 who did not participate in the Korean War. There were no other UDT Teams during the Korean era.

When I must expose my Team background I reply "Frogman". If the listener follows with that blank stare on their face, I say "Frogmen, forerunners of the Navy SEALs".

Spiritman
3 March 2007, 20:56
Do not want to expose anything...except posers...he was not.
Going back into the bushes...
sm